cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 11:23:44 am

Title: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 11:23:44 am
It's insane how much profit you lose when you sell purely for gold, 5% is a bit too strict for a market that has many, many heirloom items and points circulating. At the moment, all it does is eat up your gold and makes you think twice about pure gold trades. I just sold a +3 for 1.44 mil and I had to pay 72k. Sure left a bitter after taste.

In my fair opinion, it should be lowered to 2%. This is reasonable, and it leaves room for profit.

Either that, or split the tax between both parties. 2.5% fee for both.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Jarlek on September 19, 2012, 11:28:31 am
Take all the marketplace tax and out it in "Meow's Fund for Struggling Kittens", which he can use to give to random new accounts to help new players.

Or he can go bananas and use it all on catnip. Whatever he prefers.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 11:30:41 am
I'd like serious responses, stay on-topic or don't post at all. :wink:
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: IR_Kuoin on September 19, 2012, 11:30:45 am
Indeed, tax is stoopid!
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: dodnet on September 19, 2012, 11:36:59 am
No pollresults? What is this madness?
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 11:38:18 am
No pollresults? What is this madness?

You'll see next week. :wink:
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 19, 2012, 11:40:54 am
It's crap like this that makes men throw tea...
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 11:49:30 am
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Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Duckzern on September 19, 2012, 11:58:08 am
The tax is fine how it is, you should just calculate the tax into the money you want. And if you can't because people are selling it much cheaper it's just bad luck. Of course this is only my opinion.

Business.

Capitalism
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 12:09:44 pm
The tax is fine how it is, you should just calculate the tax into the money you want. And if you can't because people are selling it much cheaper it's just bad luck. Of course this is only my opinion.

Business.

Capitalism

You sound like someone who never bothered to make profit. And gold sinks(because the "tax" money doesn't go anywhere, it disappears forever, therefore you cannot call it a "tax") are meant to ensure that the amount of money doesn't go out of control, not to discourage people from trading with gold entirely.

Capitalism is the theory of completely self-driven economy, where the drive to "make profit" fuels the profiteer's motivation. So capitalism has no place in this marketplace, because everyone dislikes losing a lot of money due to 5% tax, and this leads to a crippled supply of offers requesting only gold. Maybe I should start dealing purely in heirloom points with gold to sweeten the deals. :|
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Gurnisson on September 19, 2012, 12:28:53 pm
Buy a large booth for 50-80 k. Rich people don't tax! :twisted:
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 12:29:29 pm
Who's the fool who paid 1.44 mil for +3 item?

Edit: Also Milanese Plate +3 for 1.25 mil :lol:
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 12:36:20 pm
I have a question to ask.

If I buy large booth, does that mean I won't pay clan bank tax?
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Duckzern on September 19, 2012, 12:38:22 pm
You sound like someone who never bothered to make profit. And gold sinks(because the "tax" money doesn't go anywhere, it disappears forever, therefore you cannot call it a "tax") are meant to ensure that the amount of money doesn't go out of control, not to discourage people from trading with gold entirely.

Capitalism is the theory of completely self-driven economy, where the drive to "make profit" fuels the profiteer's motivation. So capitalism has no place in this marketplace, because everyone dislikes losing a lot of money due to 5% tax, and this leads to a crippled supply of offers requesting only gold. Maybe I should start dealing purely in heirloom points with gold to sweeten the deals. :|

I have used the marketplace a few times and I can't see how 5% ruins my profit(or would scare anyone away). Personally I find the 5% reasonable.


Blah, blah taking what I write way too serious to look smart.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 12:45:18 pm
Few hours ago there were two loompoints on sale, one for 440k and another for 450k. That's 890k gold for 2 LPs.

Currently there's one for 460k. That's 1.35 mil for 3 LPs.

Bjord should be grateful that he found impatient person. If that dude was smart, he could buy 3 LPs, loom an item of choice (Zita Bascinet with Faceplate looks way better than Klappvisier) and save himself 90k gold or more...
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 12:47:23 pm
Who's the fool who paid 1.44 mil for +3 item?

Edit: Also Milanese Plate +3 for 1.25 mil :lol:

Kittiya, Gingerpussy's wife. :D

Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 12:48:23 pm
You should be permabanned.

Hint: Last person who harassed Kittiya was Panos :P
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Rhekimos on September 19, 2012, 12:50:38 pm
I have a question to ask.

If I buy large booth, does that mean I won't pay clan bank tax?

Nope, bank still has tax.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 12:52:47 pm
You should be permabanned.

Hint: Last person who harassed Kittiya was Panos :P

Harassed? You asked me who accepted my trade, I answered. And is it a crime to mention Kittiya is Ginger's wife? I said nothing about her.

Leshma, sometimes you can be pretty psychotic. :lol:
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 12:58:00 pm
I was joking Bjordie boy :wink:

But still, making profits like that is kinda lame. It's worse than killing Kittiya in first 10 seconds of a match. I only do that on alts, on main I leave her to shoot arrows for a bit longer until next jerk spot her on the battlefield. Once I even tried to keep her alive for a whole minute, didn't work :D

Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 01:00:28 pm
Nope, bank still has tax.

Thanks for info.

That's something that should be fixed imho.

Whole clan bank tax thing is kinda gay. Let people exploit the system ffs. It's not that easy to join the clan and take the gold. It takes time to contact people etc.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 01:01:17 pm
I was joking Bjordie boy :wink:

But still, making profits like that is kinda lame. It's worse than killing Kittiya in first 10 seconds of a match. I only do that on alts, on main I leave her to shoot arrows for a bit longer until next jerk spot her on the battlefield. Once I even tried to keep her alive for a full minute, didn't work :D

To be honest, I never expected anyone to buy it, and I quite liked the klappvisier, so I just made an offer incase some crazy mofo accepted it. It wasn't my plan to scam anyone, but if they're silly and don't check the marketplace properly before buying something, I can't really be blamed.

Anyway, now I have 1.68 mil. :D
Guess I'll get one of them booths.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 01:02:29 pm
It wasn't my plan to scam anyone, but if they're silly and don't check the marketplace properly before buying something, I can't really be blamed.

Tell that to Meow.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 01:05:43 pm
Tell that to Meow.

What are you insinuating? :wink:
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 01:11:52 pm
Well, I had a situation. Let's just say that Meow could possibly intervene even if there's no valid reason for it.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 01:17:38 pm
Well, I had a situation. Let's just say that Meow could possibly intervene even if there's no valid reason for it.

What did you do? Or what happened?
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Miwiw on September 19, 2012, 01:20:26 pm
I like this.

"Split the tax between both parties, 2.5% for both"
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Kalp on September 19, 2012, 01:24:26 pm
Quote
Split the tax between both parties, 2.5% for both
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: GuiKa on September 19, 2012, 01:43:23 pm
You sound like someone who never bothered to make profit. And gold sinks(because the "tax" money doesn't go anywhere, it disappears forever, therefore you cannot call it a "tax") are meant to ensure that the amount of money doesn't go out of control, not to discourage people from trading with gold entirely.

Capitalism is the theory of completely self-driven economy, where the drive to "make profit" fuels the profiteer's motivation. So capitalism has no place in this marketplace, because everyone dislikes losing a lot of money due to 5% tax, and this leads to a crippled supply of offers requesting only gold. Maybe I should start dealing purely in heirloom points with gold to sweeten the deals. :|

Bjorn you have to understand that in any game providing a marketplace like that there is a taxe which disappears forever. There is two reason for that:

1: The lose of gold through market exchanges create a hole in the economy of the "players/game" and therefore prevent inflations, remember before the taxe a loompoint where worth 700k now it's 500k  :). It's better for new player and promote c-rpg gold farming.

2: It nerf the wholesaler <= (not native english here, not sure if it's the right word) who could before make profit from selling and buying +3 looms too easely. A bot could become rich in no time before the taxe, i would probably have done one if there weren't taxes  :rolleyes:.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Zanze on September 19, 2012, 02:16:32 pm
Before the tax, heirloom prices were on the verge of hitting 2 million for a +3, and almost 800k for a loom. Tax cut that in half. Leave tax the way it is and control your whine.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: sF_Guardian on September 19, 2012, 02:17:17 pm
RatShit  got thwo MW`s by just trading 1 armor around.
Making profit is pretty easy if you calculate the values
well and you`re patient.

Tax is very fine as it is, any change would make it just worse.
And gold sink also works as intended.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: PhigNewtenz on September 19, 2012, 02:37:14 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Deflationary_spiral

Quote
A deflationary spiral is a situation where decreases in price lead to lower production, which in turn leads to lower wages and demand, which leads to further decreases in price.

We just need to be sure that we didn't start something that will wreck the in-game economy. Yes prices have fallen by roughly thirty to forty percent. What if they keep falling, so much so that people lose the motivation to retire and get loom points? Then experienced players will be able to snap up whole sets of heirloomed items, and level themselves to 33+. How will that help new players?

I understand the need for gold sinks in an artificial economy, but I'm concerned that we may be shrinking the money supply too much. Just as central banks can set interest rates to control inflation/deflation, the cRPG developers can set the tax rate to keep this economy stable. I'm sure they'll arrest this fall before it goes too far.

Lower the tax to 2%
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 19, 2012, 04:18:13 pm
What if they keep falling, so much so that people lose the motivation to retire and get loom points?

In that case loompoint price will go up because there's few of them on the market.

And most people will never stop to retire, especially with this new loom points awards for lvl 31+.

If prices of looms drop to their ORIGINAL values of 100-300k, that will just mean that gold is very scarce and that people need it to finance their builds which aren't balanced with upkeep in mind.

Currently, it's way too easy to farm gold because of multiplicator system which awards everyone in pretty much the same way (valor for winners fixed some of that). If they make it so that gold can be earned only if you play well, which means that you have to wear good items (unless you're Fallen_Wayynee), than gold value will go up and heirlooms will be cheaper because upkeep will mean something after a long time.

And yes, I have nearly 20 mil gold in the bank.

And yes, I'm waiting for lower prices to happen to buy plenty of loomed items.

Will that happen? Maybe.

Can you blame for trying to earn more than I deserve? No you can't, because I made a strategy investing in gold, based on my predictions. Same as rich people do irl. And just like IRL this is a long term strategy. It involved months and months of planning and executing the whole thing.

It's your own problem you didn't do anything similar.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Turboflex on September 19, 2012, 04:21:41 pm
This guy just sold a +3 for the value of way OVER 3 loompoints and he is crying about how unfair the tax is? unbelievable
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: GuiKa on September 19, 2012, 05:08:20 pm
This guy just sold a +3 for the value of way OVER 3 loompoints and he is crying about how unfair the tax is? unbelievable

And who bought it ? XD
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: PhigNewtenz on September 19, 2012, 05:48:49 pm
And yes, I have nearly 20 mil gold in the bank.

And yes, I'm waiting for lower prices to happen to buy plenty of loomed items.

Will that happen? Maybe.

Can you blame for trying to earn more than I deserve? No you can't, because I made a strategy investing in gold, based on my predictions. Same as rich people do irl. And just like IRL this is a long term strategy. It involved months and months of planning and executing the whole thing.

It's your own problem you didn't do anything similar.

Well, there you go. Leshma has solved the problem! All everyone has to do is:

This isn't a formula for market success by all, it's a strategy for rich-get-richer, Scrooge McDuck-esque snobbishness that does nothing to help cRPG prosper.

I'd like to see the marketplace be an interesting addition to the community that fairly benefits all players.

Reducing the market transaction tax rate is only one approach (not even close to the best in my opinion) to curbing deflation, but it could work and it is the topic of this thread. In that context, I support it.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Zanze on September 19, 2012, 07:40:53 pm
Cheaper value of just about everything makes...just about everything but gold more readily available. So wouldn't noobs have less of a hard time gathering the cash to buy them? At least, I find it is easier to save up 300k than it is to save up 700k. As loom point quantities drop due to the low price, the remaining few will raise there price and probably fluctuate between 350-450. People will continue to retire because for many, it funds their cav-only gens or they simply want more loompoints for the sake of versatility, who knows. Just because famous player X or famous player Y states they wont retire anymore because boohoo life sucks, doesn't mean the people who you never hear from will stop retiring.

It is easily possible to make good money in the marketplace and once you get the right chips to do so, it simply becomes a waiting game for that one deal that will bring you a step closer to money. Yes it is technically a "rich get richer" strategy, but you know how it starts? A single loompoint. Not that long ago I saw a pretty darn effective +2 item up for 1 loompoint and 40,000 gold. Using 20k equipment as my base I was able to make almost 100,000 just by leveling from 1 to 25ish.

So all it takes is for one person to sit back, make a plan on how they will join the market economy and follow it. None of that buy item X for 15,000 and never use it. Or use it constantly at a net loss of gold. I've posted in a few threads asking about how to make money in this game and i've had to answer the same question more than once, be it by PM or in the forums itself.

If you plan to cav, you cannot plan to make money.
If you plan to use the most expensive gear, you cannot make money.

Again, I'll repeat. If you want to join the market, if you want to make gold in this game. Play smart. You don't need 65 armor in order to play the game effectively, learn how to avoid bad situations or learn how to stop getting hit so much. You don't need an expensive weapon to do good either. 1extra cut damage is not worth 4,000 gold.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: PhigNewtenz on September 19, 2012, 08:50:36 pm
Awesome post Zanze. I think we agree on a lot of points here.

Cheaper value of just about everything makes...just about everything but gold more readily available. So wouldn't noobs have less of a hard time gathering the cash to buy them? At least, I find it is easier to save up 300k than it is to save up 700k. As loom point quantities drop due to the low price, the remaining few will raise there price and probably fluctuate between 350-450. People will continue to retire because for many, it funds their cav-only gens or they simply want more loompoints for the sake of versatility, who knows. Just because famous player X or famous player Y states they wont retire anymore because boohoo life sucks, doesn't mean the people who you never hear from will stop retiring.

I agree completely. Like most dynamic systems, the current one will stabilize eventually ('stability' will involve some variation up and down, but the trend will level off). I am also pretty sure that without changes it will stabilize at lower prices than the ones we currently see. I think this is a GOOD thing. If you think I've said otherwise (I actually didn't say anything on the topic) it's probably because you've confused the process of deflation with the result of deflation. Low prices are good. The process of falling prices (deflation) is bad. I don't think that we can arbitrarily set them lower, so to avoid the pain of them falling I think we're better off where we are.


As to your other points, I agree that it is possible to make money in this market no matter how much you have to start with. I do a fair amount of trading my self, and that would still be possible without a deflationary trend. Your advice about 'playing smart' is spot on. It took me a while to learn it, but now I always try to buy reasonably priced armor and weapons and I enjoy much more financial success.


One comment:

Using 20k equipment as my base I was able to make almost 100,000 just by leveling from 1 to 25ish.

I see statements like these all the time and they are pretty obvious exaggerations (when talking about battle and siege). Obvious because the math is easy to check and doesn't support the claim:
*Assumes 20k equipment cost, 0.07 repair cost to item cost ratio, 0.0375 break chance per tick, 2.2x average multiplier. We can start a separate topic if you want to know more about these calculations and numbers. I use similar ones often and have found them to be fairly accurate.

As you can see, running around naked and weaponless to level 25 wouldn't get you anywhere near 100k (and would certainly get you banned!). With repairs on 20k equipment you'll be losing about half your income to repairs (depends on what type of equipment, your proficiency, round length, your win rate, etc.) so 40k is a much more realistic estimate of your earnings (if you're a low gen, lower if you're high gen) than 100k (which is impossible). I would expect you to hit 100k somewhere between levels 29 and 30.




Back to topic: Lower transaction taxes to decrease the gold sink and stabilize the market.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Kafein on September 19, 2012, 10:27:43 pm
Either that, or split the tax between both parties. 2.5% fee for both.

You really did not think that through, did you ?

Btw, as this is probably considered non-trivial by many :

The repartition of the nominal tax between the buyer and the seller has no effect on the effective burden of the tax. The most inelastic (aka not sensitive to price changes) party will pay the bigger share of the tax, no matter from who the money happens to be physically taken from.

As an example, our current system takes the tax from the seller's pocket (at least when someone makes a "sell" offer). That means that the seller is getting less than what he asks. But he still wants to get as much money as possible. So the tax makes his price go higher, in order to get at least part of the difference between the price he had before and what he would get without increasing the prices.

If the buyer was paying the tax, we wouldn't see a difference. Only the nominal prices of the items would be different. But what would the seller get would be the same.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 10:31:54 pm
You really did not think that through, did you ?

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Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Kafein on September 19, 2012, 10:46:32 pm
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Well yeah, see the above post

EDIT : quoting for thread readability :

The repartition of the nominal tax between the buyer and the seller has no effect on the effective burden of the tax. The most inelastic (aka not sensitive to price changes) party will pay the bigger share of the tax, no matter from who the money happens to be physically taken from.

As an example, our current system takes the tax from the seller's pocket (at least when someone makes a "sell" offer). That means that the seller is getting less than what he asks. But he still wants to get as much money as possible. So the tax makes his price go higher, in order to get at least part of the difference between the price he had before and what he would get without increasing the prices.

If the buyer was paying the tax, we wouldn't see a difference. Only the nominal prices of the items would be different. But what would the seller get would be the same.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Bjord on September 19, 2012, 10:57:30 pm
I get what you're saying, you're saying that it doesn't make a difference. Yet it does. You think it's as easily solved as selling for 105% of the planned offer. But in reality, people become more reluctant to buy something if I did this.. When I set my prices, I have two things in mind: profit and attractivity of price. I want to indulge the potential buyer's consideration, as well as my own profit. It's very tricky to find even ground when I lose a lot of money in those pure gols trades. Anyway, I'm getting a large booth now regardless so I coule care less about the tax.

Still, the point of the goldsink is to remove a portion of the money in circulation to balance the money that is generated every minute(including repairs). In this sense, it doesn't matter for two shits if both parties pay the tax or only one. It is just a simple alteration, and that is why I proposed it. I actually prefer the 2% tax proposition, but somehow I feel that is going beyond for what devs might consider. Now, all they have to do is split the tax between seller and buyer.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Kafein on September 19, 2012, 11:13:35 pm
I get what you're saying, you're saying that it doesn't make a difference. Yet it does. You think it's as easily solved as selling for 105% of the planned offer. But in reality, people become less reluctant to buy something if I did this.. When I set my prices, I have two things in mind: profit and attractivity of price. I want to indulge the potential buyer's consideration, as well as my own profit. It's very tricky to find even ground when I lose a lot of money in those pure gols trades. Anyway, I'm getting a large booth now regardless so I coule care less about the tax.

Still, the point of the goldsink is to remove a portion of the money in circulation to balance the money that is generated every minute(including repairs). In this sense, it doesn't matter for two shits if both parties pay the tax or only one. It is just a simple alteration, and that is why I proposed it. I actually prefer the 2% tax proposition, but somehow I feel that is going beyond for what devs might consider. Now, all they have to do is split the tax between seller and buyer.

Say the price before the tax was 100%, and the tax requires sellers to pay 5% of the transaction gold.

Now as a seller you have to put 105% as your nominal price to get the same amount of money per item as you did before. However, if you did that, that would imply the whole tax would be paid by the buyer. That's not very fair. Except in extreme cases like drugs (zero or very low elasticity, the buyer will accept any price), the buyer is a little bit elastic. Elastic means if you make him pay more, he will buy you less items than what he used to buy. When the demand elasticity is superior to 1, a 5% increase in price will reduce the sales volume by more than 5%, which means increasing the price will decrease the seller's profits. When the elasticity of the demand is inferior to 1, increasing the price increases the profits.

The sellers thus have to find out more or less how is the demand curve, and accept to pay a part of the tax, in order to maximize their profits.

If our buyers were heirloom addicts, sellers could very well just up their prices by 5% because buyers would buy anyway. On the other hand, if nobody is interested in heirlooms, and many sellers are competing, it's very important to keep your price low and sell as many items as possible.

Here's an image to describe my thoughts :
(click to show/hide)


Even though all of this is (probably badly explained) hard facts, the psychological impact of the prices buyers see is important because they react to them by comparing them to earlier prices, but that's not economy.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Zanze on September 20, 2012, 01:29:13 am

I see statements like these all the time and they are pretty obvious exaggerations (when talking about battle and siege). Obvious because the math is easy to check and doesn't support the claim:
...

Yeah, it is an exaggeration. I don't really keep tabs saying I started gen X with Y gold and say by level Z I made blah blah blah. But it gets the point across somewhat well. It felt like 100k to me tho xD

Anyways, glad someone else sees eye to eye with me. We now need to spread the insight.

Edit: After later review, I find it completely possible I could have made near 100,000 gold in 1-25. According to the new lovely progress bar I made ~33,000 gold in 618,000 experience on the 15th.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Stormcrow on September 20, 2012, 02:12:03 am
just add all the taxes paid to the lottery to avoid a gold sink and have a formula so those who pay alot of tax in a week get free lotto tickets.

example: 50000 gold in tax = 50 tickets
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Kafein on September 20, 2012, 05:26:18 pm
just add all the taxes paid to the lottery to avoid a gold sink and have a formula so those who pay alot of tax in a week get free lotto tickets.

example: 50000 gold in tax = 50 tickets

That would kinda defeat the purpose of the tax.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Stormcrow on September 21, 2012, 04:03:21 am
Quote
That would kinda defeat the purpose of the tax.

1. How? you provided no points or basis for your thesis
2. the purpose of the tax is to reduce market profits and the increasing price of heirlooms(which it would still achieve)
3. Tax returns
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: MarktpLatz on September 21, 2012, 04:50:21 am
It would actually just be an advantage for the traders, who already make a shitload of money and furthermore decrease the chance to win the lottery for everyone because the amount of tickets bought would be TOO DAMN HIGH!
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Swaggart on September 21, 2012, 04:58:28 am
(click to show/hide)

I never read such a sad, self-aggrandizing post in my life. You know what the sad thing about your entire post is? You actually think you've accomplished something. Allow me to give you some clarity - it means fuck all that you have anything in a video game. You are not like rich people IRL, they actually did something meaningful whereas what you did was essentially try really, really hard in a video game. Invested, as you say, months of planning just to succeed in a video game as opposed to months of planning to succeed in something important like, oh I don't know - real life? Touting it around and being proud of it? Jesus fucking Christ man, get some perspective.

Your accomplishment is a collection of pixels. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Kafein on September 21, 2012, 12:08:40 pm
(click to show/hide)

I never read such a sad, self-aggrandizing post in my life. You know what the sad thing about your entire post is? You actually think you've accomplished something. Allow me to give you some clarity - it means fuck all that you have anything in a video game. You are not like rich people IRL, they actually did something meaningful whereas what you did was essentially try really, really hard in a video game. Invested, as you say, months of planning just to succeed in a video game as opposed to months of planning to succeed in something important like, oh I don't know - real life? Touting it around and being proud of it? Jesus fucking Christ man, get some perspective.

Your accomplishment is a collection of pixels. Congratulations.

Awesome case of jelly. FYI this is a videogame forum.

1. How? you provided no points or basis for your thesis
2. the purpose of the tax is to reduce market profits and the increasing price of heirlooms(which it would still achieve)
3. Tax returns

The purpose of the tax is to bring money out of the economy. It's the most effective gold sink atm. Reducing heirloom prices is just a byproduct of this.
Giving back part of this tax money is exactly the same as just reducing the tax altogether, with the exception that lottery tickets will give a minority of players a sudden boost of money. Concentrating a majority of the money in fewer hands drives the prices higher. Even though the lottery brings a lot of gold out of the economy, it makes a few people able to spend a lot more.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Lordark on September 23, 2012, 03:55:57 am
been playnig on and off for 3 years and I am broke while other got millions? man i feel sucky. :(
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Werfried on September 23, 2012, 01:28:31 pm
Just leave the tax as it is.
Since the start of the new lottery and the marketplace tax prices did go down and thats a good thing.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Riddaren on September 23, 2012, 02:40:20 pm
It feels like the number of marketplace transactions are not as many as they used to be.
I assume that wasn't the intention when taxes got implemented.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Kafein on September 23, 2012, 07:27:39 pm
It feels like the number of marketplace transactions are not as many as they used to be.
I assume that wasn't the intention when taxes got implemented.

That's what a tax does. A bit like medication side effects.

There are possible goldsinks without taxing transactions though. Goodies like titles and banners already consume some money. The lottery works quite well too.

A tax acting over time independently would reduce the amount of money in the system too. Say if everybody lost 0.01% of their gold each day at midnight, that would be a very good goldsink, yet without stifling the marketplace's activity like the transaction tax does.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: MarktpLatz on September 23, 2012, 07:32:32 pm
I just want to mention THIS:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 24, 2012, 02:14:23 pm
been playnig on and off for 3 years and I am broke while other got millions? man i feel sucky. :(

Well, I've got millions but as Swaggart said it's just a bunch of pixels and has no value for me at this moment because I'm not playing the mod anymore.

Was fun trying to achieve that goal (getting as much gold as possible). Would probably stop playing a lot earlier if not for gold stockpiling mania of mine. cRPG has really become that stale, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Lower the Marketplace Tax
Post by: Leshma on September 24, 2012, 02:20:22 pm
\You are not like rich people IRL, they actually did something meaningful whereas what you did was essentially try really, really hard in a video game.\

True, being rich IRL means something, in videogame means nothing.

But to become rich IRL you need to sacrifice a lot, while to become rich in cRPG it took 5 minutes spent on marketplace and playing with a goal in mind. And that was actually more fun, than playing the game without any goal at all.

You see, out of 2500 hours or more I've spent on this game during last two years, I had most fun playing in gold making gear with so called "gimped" builds. So it's not a loss really, nor trying to hard. Playing like that made me better player and actually was a challenge and I like challenging video games. If I was heavy cav I would probably quit cRPG after few months.

Being Weren's sidekick on Staffmistress alt was the most fun I've ever had in cRPG, really.