cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Jarold on August 24, 2012, 07:49:49 am

Title: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Jarold on August 24, 2012, 07:49:49 am
Im currently a one handed shielder at lvl 30. My stats are...

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Im planning on using this same build/equipment next gen but im not sure if its exactly good, any suggestions?
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Vibe on August 24, 2012, 07:52:38 am
It is good. You could also go something like 18/18 if you want more speed.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Bjord on August 24, 2012, 08:18:04 am
It is good.

It is known, Khaleesi.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Digglez on August 24, 2012, 09:55:03 am
arab sword is too slow for general infantry, get something faster like NCS/KAS, italian, Scimi or Grosse Messer.  The advantage of sword is reach AND speed, and you've just tossed one of those out the window.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Teeth on August 24, 2012, 11:24:22 am
Arabian cavalry sword can definitely work well in battle. Holds and wiggles are key. The speed is only a disadvantage in a 1 vs 1, where the 1h animations are easily solid enough to make due with 95 speed. In a group vs group fight situation, that reach and cut damage is awesome. Especially because people continously underestimate the reach of the 1h rightswing. I can play the range game against most Danishes and flamberges with 102 reach, flamberge mostly because it is so slow. The possibilities with 105 reach are endless.

Too bad it looks shit. Really shit.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Vodner on August 24, 2012, 01:12:00 pm
The biggest problem I had with the ACS is that its overheads love to bounce off the ground, leaving your briefly stunned. Other than that, it's a pretty nice battle weapon.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: isatis on August 24, 2012, 02:44:10 pm
hum first you should have  7ps not 8 minor error

but you should maybe try another built like 24/15 which give you an amazing 8 ps with 5 ath 5 shield and 5 wm

try using ligther armor to be faster and hit like a tank!
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: rustyspoon on August 24, 2012, 02:47:27 pm
Not a fan of 21/15. You gain the ability to take an extra hit, but the trade-off is slow movement speed and a weak shield.

I find the sweet spot with a MW Heavy Round Shield is 6 shield skill. With 6 athletics you don't have to worry about 2-handers circling around you.

Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 60
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 2
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 2
One Handed: 125
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Turboflex on August 24, 2012, 04:10:08 pm
If your are a smart player and position/face well, you don't need extra athletics. Athletics are a bit like training wheels, they give you more margin for error when it comes to footwork, but if you're not making those errors in the first place why do you need it? Also I don't think you need more than 5 shield, by the time your shield is broken there will be new shields to pick up all over the ground.

Take Rustyspoon's build to cut down Iron flesh and wep master for extra stats, but try 24/15 instead of 21/18.

In mail armor you're not getting the same advantage from iron flesh that someone in plate does, and I guarantee you will enjoy 8 PS, really makes a difference in killing heavy armor guys (and ripping through lights).

Another sword you might wanna try is Nordic War Sword. It is very fast,  it's a bit shorter than the top swords which actually gives it better sweetspots, so you glance less.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: rustyspoon on August 24, 2012, 05:01:08 pm
If your are a smart player and position/face well, you don't need extra athletics. Athletics are a bit like training wheels, they give you more margin for error when it comes to footwork, but if you're not making those errors in the first place why do you need it? Also I don't think you need more than 5 shield, by the time your shield is broken there will be new shields to pick up all over the ground.

Take Rustyspoon's build to cut down Iron flesh and wep master for extra stats, but try 24/15 instead of 21/18.

In mail armor you're not getting the same advantage from iron flesh that someone in plate does, and I guarantee you will enjoy 8 PS, really makes a difference in killing heavy armor guys (and ripping through lights).

Another sword you might wanna try is Nordic War Sword. It is very fast,  it's a bit shorter than the top swords which actually gives it better sweetspots, so you glance less.

Funny, I say the same thing about strength.

The differences between 18 str and 24 str are minimal, especially when considering held attacks, speed bonus and the low initial damage values of 1-h weapons. Poles and 2h benefit from PS much, much more than 1-handers.

The benefits of high athletics are:

1. You get to pick your fights. You won't ever be stuck somewhere you don't want to be.
2. It's hard for people to surround you. With my 7 athletics and light armor on NA, I can run backwards faster than most people run forward.
3. Surprise hits. I can close distance between opponents much faster than they expect. Great for right swings and stabs.
4. Moving around people's defenses. It becomes pretty easy to circle around other shielders and hit around their shield.

Now, the point about you being able to pick up another shield when yours breaks. First you have to survive the breaking of your shield and you have to survive the process of finding another one. If you're fighting two people and your shield breaks, you'll get another hit on you before you can even block. Then if you manage to kill those guys, you'll still have to find yourself another shield. With higher shield skill, your shield will pretty much never ever break. Couches can't even break my shield unless someone else beat the shit out of it first. Also, higher shield skill lets you block faster. Shields already block slower than manual blocks. A higher shield skill makes it easier for you to react to chambers.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Turboflex on August 24, 2012, 06:29:00 pm
Funny, I say the same thing about strength.

The differences between 18 str and 24 str are minimal, especially when considering held attacks, speed bonus and the low initial damage values of 1-h weapons. Poles and 2h benefit from PS much, much more than 1-handers.

The benefits of high athletics are:

1. You get to pick your fights. You won't ever be stuck somewhere you don't want to be.
2. It's hard for people to surround you. With my 7 athletics and light armor on NA, I can run backwards faster than most people run forward.
3. Surprise hits. I can close distance between opponents much faster than they expect. Great for right swings and stabs.
4. Moving around people's defenses. It becomes pretty easy to circle around other shielders and hit around their shield.

Now, the point about you being able to pick up another shield when yours breaks. First you have to survive the breaking of your shield and you have to survive the process of finding another one. If you're fighting two people and your shield breaks, you'll get another hit on you before you can even block. Then if you manage to kill those guys, you'll still have to find yourself another shield. With higher shield skill, your shield will pretty much never ever break. Couches can't even break my shield unless someone else beat the shit out of it first. Also, higher shield skill lets you block faster. Shields already block slower than manual blocks. A higher shield skill makes it easier for you to react to chambers.

I guess we could say it's just a style difference, your AGI emphasis is more defensive and duelist, mine is more offensive and geared for fast killing in heavy fights.

I use a 38 cut 1h axe which basically hits like a greatsword, quite a bit harder than a 33 cut italian sword.

I don't mind fighting outnumbered, ping-ponging between opponents is absurdly effective once you get the timing and footwork down. With 8 PS I can drop them fast whilst doing it. Generally when you are surrounded by 3 random people, they usually don't work very well together anyways, giving you lots of openings.

Easy to get surprise hits even with 4 Athletics, just lull someone in a certain direction and reverse it quickly, people rarely react in time regardless of your athletics.

I rely on either my axe to bust a shield, or use holds/feints. Only a bad/inexperienced shielder who hasn't learned how to face properly will let you swing around them.

I guess the OP needs to think about what his style is and tailor build accordinly.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Teeth on August 24, 2012, 06:58:34 pm
The differences between 18 str and 24 str are minimal, especially when considering held attacks, speed bonus and the low initial damage values of 1-h weapons. Poles and 2h benefit from PS much, much more than 1-handers.
I disagree. There is a huge different between 6 and 8 ps. Regardless of your class, 2 ps is still worth 16% more damage. It will still take you 16% less hits to kill even with a torch. There is also a damage bonus for the 6 more strength, this is absolute, so 1h benefits just as much from this as 2h. Especially because the low base damage from 1h, having high ps is important to minimize the chances of glancing.

The mentioned held attacks and speed bonuses will stack with your ps. So doing a perfectly maneuvered held hit will get even more bonus with more powerstrike. Still the increased speed bonus from having more athlethics does not at all make up for less powerstrike, it is not that significant.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: rustyspoon on August 24, 2012, 07:40:11 pm
I disagree. There is a huge different between 6 and 8 ps. Regardless of your class, 2 ps is still worth 16% more damage. It will still take you 16% less hits to kill even with a torch. There is also a damage bonus for the 6 more strength, this is absolute, so 1h benefits just as much from this as 2h. Especially because the low base damage from 1h, having high ps is important to minimize the chances of glancing.

The mentioned held attacks and speed bonuses will stack with your ps. So doing a perfectly maneuvered held hit will get even more bonus with more powerstrike. Still the increased speed bonus from having more athlethics does not at all make up for less powerstrike, it is not that significant.

Real world maths comin' at ya!

Let's assume you have an opponent with 21 str, 7 IF and 55 body armor. That gives him 70 hp.

Now for the builds of the attacker.

Build 1 has 6 PS and 123 WPF.
Build 2 has 8 PS and 123 WPF.

The three weapons being used are a MW Italian Sword (33 cut), a MW broad 1-handed battle axe (38 cut) and a MW Military Hammer (31 blunt)

Not counting held attacks or speed bonus, it will take the guy with 8 PS 3-8 hits to kill your opponent with an italian sword. So, an average of 5.5 hits.
Not counting held attacks or speed bonus, it will take the guy with 6 PS 4-14 hits to kill your opponent with an italian sword. So, an average of 9 hits.
The damage for 6 ps here is probably more of a statistical fluke. The damage must have just hit a threshold with this combination of armor and hp. Following trends it should be closer to 6.5-8 hits on average.

Not counting held attacks or speed bonus, it will take the guy with 8 PS 3-5 hits to kill your opponent with a hammer. So, an average of 4 hits.
Not counting held attacks or speed bonus, it will take the guy with 6 PS 3-6 hits to kill your opponent with a hammer. So, an average of 4.5 hits.

Not counting held attacks or speed bonus, it will take the guy with 8 PS 3-6 hits to kill your opponent with an axe. So, an average of 4.5 hits.
Not counting held attacks or speed bonus, it will take the guy with 6 PS 3-8 hits to kill your opponent with a hammer. So, an average of 5.5 hits.

This also doesn't include damage bonus from movement. If you added that in, damage results would be even closer. The initial weapon damage and damage type is FAR more important than the amount of PS you're stacking ESPECIALLY for 1-handers. So, the amount of point investment you're putting in to pump you to 8 PS has a VERY small effect on damage. That is why I always say balanced builds are king. This also doesn't account for the fact that the build with lower PS probably has higher WPF, bringing damage values closer again.

With 2-handers and poles, you'll see a much larger difference with stacking str, but mostly only on cut weapons.

As an added point, if you can block decently you destroy people using a 6/33 spear build. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Bjord on August 24, 2012, 07:58:42 pm
I'd be happy demonstrate on you, rusty, when I reach lvl 33 with my 24/18 swashbuckler and get 8 ps. 8-)
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Turboflex on August 24, 2012, 08:46:53 pm
Rusty, when you add holds and speed bonus it stacks with PS, so it should increase the spread between 6 & 8 because everything is magnified, not lower this spread...

Also even if that italian sword hit a "fluke" threshold, it still shows how tough a time a finesse low damage slash weapon has with guys at 55+ armor. Usually it's better vet players wearing 55+ armor too (Kuyak weight armor + gloves heirloomed tops 55+), and it gets tougher to lay 4-5+ (assuming hold + speed bonus) hits on them when they maybe need to hit you 2-3 times with a beefy 2h or polearm. If 8 PS can cut that that down to 3 hits, that's at the very least 33% better at killing hard targets, a significant difference in a tough fight on a chaotic battlefield.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 24, 2012, 08:53:50 pm
IMO you want 6 ps and 6 ath, anything more on either of those is just gravy. So if you dont plan on retiring, or dont think max IF/WM are worth it, go ahead and get an additional ps or ath, but I would suggest not going below 6 ps or 6 ath.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: rustyspoon on August 24, 2012, 09:38:18 pm
Rusty, when you add holds and speed bonus it stacks with PS, so it should increase the spread between 6 & 8 because everything is magnified, not lower this spread...

Also even if that italian sword hit a "fluke" threshold, it still shows how tough a time a finesse low damage slash weapon has with guys at 55+ armor. Usually it's better vet players wearing 55+ armor too (Kuyak weight armor + gloves heirloomed tops 55+), and it gets tougher to lay 4-5+ (assuming hold + speed bonus) hits on them when they maybe need to hit you 2-3 times with a beefy 2h or polearm. If 8 PS can cut that that down to 3 hits, that's at the very least 33% better at killing hard targets, a significant difference in a tough fight on a chaotic battlefield.

Sort of, but not really. Again this is mostly a factor for 1-handed weapons because of the low initial damage. Another huge factor is the fact that everything in this mod is based on percentages.

1st off, higher agility will have a higher on average speed bonus, so they'll get an extra point or two of damage from that.

Now, let's talk about holds. A perfect hold will net you a 25% damage increase.

Say we have a weapon that does 30 cut damage.

With 6 PS, (48% damage increase) you'd do 44.4 damage per swing. A 25% hold bonus on top of that would add an additional 11.1 points of damage to bring you to 55.5 points.

With 8 PS, (64% damage increase) you'd do 49.2 damage per swing. A 25% hold bonus on top of that would add an additional 12.3 points of damage to bring you to 61.5 points of damage.

So, the held attack from 8 PS only nets you an extra 1.2 points of damage in this example. The actual attack only does 6 more points of damage. Now, here's where things get crazy.

Armor has 2 values, soak and resist. Soak totally nullifies damage and resust reduces it.

Not sure if these are the old or new values.

armor_soak_factor_against_cut       = 0.8
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.65
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt     = 0.5

armor_reduction_factor_against_cut       = 1.0
armor_reduction_factor_against_pierce    = 0.5
armor_reduction_factor_against_blunt     = 0.75

Anyway, what this means is that both attacks are reduced by the exact same amount regardless of initial damage. This also determines whether you glance or not.

The second value is a percentage-based reduction. Since it is percentage-based the higher damage value is reduced MORE than the lower damage value. That knocks off even more of the higher PS advantage and brings the two values closer together.

Since the soak factor was reduced a while ago, it actually helped agi builds out and hurt str builds. The previous advantage of str builds was the reduced glance chance. Now, you'll really only glance due to bad footwork. So the biggest advantage of str builds was taken away.

Also, since PS is percentage-based, you don't gain much of a bonus off of the low-damage 1-handers. Poles and 2-handers have a much better bonus from PS.

Also that build in my first example; I would say I average about 3.5 hits to kill someone like that. That's with 6 PS and a MW Italian sword.

IMO you want 6 ps and 6 ath, anything more on either of those is just gravy. So if you dont plan on retiring, or dont think max IF/WM are worth it, go ahead and get an additional ps or ath, but I would suggest not going below 6 ps or 6 ath.

Really good advice, by the way.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: HarunYahya on August 24, 2012, 09:39:40 pm
21 str.
15 agi

Power Strike - 8

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Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Mlekce on August 24, 2012, 09:43:20 pm
Don't listen to him,there is hudge difference between 6 and 7 ps,not to mention difference between 6 and 8 ps.
With 8 ps you will kill everything in 2 hits,heavier guys with 3 hits,str whores 4.

go 21/18 build and make it like this.

5if,shield
6athl,7 ps
114 wpf in 1h.

This is build i will try this gen i already rage respec 3 times.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 24, 2012, 10:06:01 pm
Don't listen to him,there is hudge difference between 6 and 7 ps,not to mention difference between 6 and 8 ps.
With 8 ps you will kill everything in 2 hits,heavier guys with 3 hits,str whores 4.

go 21/18 build and make it like this.

5if,shield
6athl,7 ps
114 wpf in 1h.

This is build i will try this gen i already rage respec 3 times.

Rusty is arguing that you want 6 ath as a shielder. You are saying not to listen to him, then posting a build with 6 ath. Nice argument.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Jarold on August 24, 2012, 10:53:53 pm
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Oops derp. It appears I accidentally put  8 instead of 7 when I was typing it up  :lol:



Thanks for the help guys.



 I dunno if this is retarded but I usually run away from fights if I can when there are like 2-3 two hander guys after me  :lol:       If they do catch me I tend to jump around slashing faces and holding my swings, using my weapons reach, so thats why I like my arabian cavalry sword.

I will think about some of these builds and see if I want to use them, thanks again.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Fartface on August 29, 2012, 11:50:36 pm
Id be happy to show you bjord , when I reach lvl 13 ps ... o yeah already got it well prepared to be showed!
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Smoothrich on August 30, 2012, 12:03:54 am
I did a 15/24 1hander build with some polearm WPF too, having an Awlpike on my back to avoid team damage in clusterfucks and scare off cav.

With cut weapons like the NCS or Italian, I seriously 2-3 shot everyone regardless.  I was just so fast, if I ran into enemies before attacking with held swings at their face I hit like 10 PS, on top of having much more fun being a speedy asshole who could dissect groups of enemies by myself with big play finesse.  STR builds would often end up tanking a lot of hits but I mean.. you have a shield.  You are invincible to everything so who cares how many swings you need if you choose your battles wisely.  I actually did this build to try to hunt archers but you can imagine how that ultimately worked out :(

Of course I also did a 27/12 1hander build with elite scimi and it was even easier, since I didn't have to factor in held swings, speed bonus, positioning, or minimizing damage done to me or anything.  I just walked up to people grunting like a Neanderthal and spammed right swings at 2handers and left swings when facehugging and 2-3 shotted everyone just the same.  I just felt like a douche because strength builds should be a bannable offense in cRPG.

Ultimately I would recommend 21/18 or 18/21 over any other build because balanced builds own and its all skill no crutch whenever you play.  But experiment on skip the funs and use levels of armor to compensate for your athletics so you find a good speed and a weapon that suits your playstyle and go hogwild. 
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Mlekce on August 30, 2012, 02:16:35 am
This will sound wierd but i don't feel any difference in speed when i have 4,5,6 or 7 athl and carry a shield. I am so god damn slow.
Do you guys notice any big difference?
I never thought abbout 27/12 build but now i think that this build will totaly fit my playstyle.
Insane dmg with blunt weapon,74 hit points on my +3 gear,i don't mind if i am slow this could be it. Thanks smoothrich.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: San on August 30, 2012, 02:24:06 am
If you like to hold shield a lot, I would recommend a more strength oriented build. Since you already tried 21/15, try 6-7 athletics builds. Do you hold shield a lot when you move around, Mlekce?
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Mlekce on August 30, 2012, 02:36:46 am
i tried 12/24 i think or it was 12/27 and it is fast,fun to play for day or two,and then it is nightmare to play. One,or 2 hits and you are dead.
tried 15/21 fast,little stronger but still too weak for mine taste. I also die too easily.
tried 18/18 fast,but still weak.
tried 21/15 slower but ps is still weak. I would reccomend this build for all new shielders. It is good,but i like more ps.
tried 24/15 this is build i liked the moust,dmg is very good.
building now 21/18 currently lvl 28.
next to try is 27/12.

Yeah,i first played with shield because it was less tense that way,but now i forgot how to block properly. I can block in singleplayer bots,but here it is too fast for my reflexes.
So i need to carry shield with me. I depend on him. I press right click when i am in danger of ranged,cav or infrantery,and i never put him on my back because i know it slows me down even more.
I feel slower in combat no matter how much athl i have. Ppl faint too easily.
I also like to have a lot of health because i get wounded and shot a lot,so i like to go with my shield and don't care abbout anything. :D
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Mlekce on August 30, 2012, 02:43:56 am
That build can be good with this new valour system,you will get a lot of points if you hit someone with 9 ps and mw weapon.
It is more likly you will get valour or good score with 9 ps then with 5 ps.
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Formless on August 31, 2012, 02:56:31 am
I mostly agree with Rusty. 

But I prefer:

 Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 6
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 4
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 110

But I mostly play 1 hander without shield these days hence the extra IF comes in handy. I also found that 1 hand really does not need any weapon master 110 wpf works just fine.  The 6 athletics is nice, lets you move around well, and you will need that extra bit of speed against 2 hander agility players cause of their advantage of having a longer weapon. 

The 7 PS is nice, you will still bounce off armour but most opponent go down with about 3 to 4 hits.  With a cut sword you might not want to fight anyone in plate cause many of your hits will bounce off, many times I ended up having to hit a plate str guy about 9 to 10 times to take him out.   

I tried a 9 PS one hander, and I really did not notice that much difference between 7 ps and 9ps,  low armour opponents went down faster but I would still get many bounces off plate despite the 9ps.  Plus the sacrifice in athletics was a hudge disadvantage against 2 hander agility guys.  Overall I preform much better on my 21/18 one hander then I do on my 27/12 one hander.

Hope this helps,

Formless.



Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Tindel on August 31, 2012, 11:41:52 am
Spec and gear loadout comes hand in hand.

If you want to use a certain weapon or armor you have to choose spec accordingly.
And playstyle of course, what your general approach to combat is.

There is alot of merit both to agi and str heavier builds, depending on what you want to accomplish.


My recommendation is,  try alot of different builds and weapons, and see what fits you.
When i played shielder i tried:  21/15 18/18 24/15 27/12 ,  using long espada eslavona.
And like others have posted before me, different builds have different pros and cons, its about how you utilize those that matters.

Agility lets you score hits easier, and avoid hits easier
Strenght lets your hits matter more, and you can take more hits.

I
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Nogu on August 31, 2012, 12:09:29 pm
Lvl: 30
---------------------------
Strength:18
Agility:18
---------------------------
One Handed:154
---------------------------
Weapon Master:6
Athletics:6
Iron Flesh:5
Shield:6
Power Strike:6
---------------------------
Use Elite Spamitar or Nordic Champion's Sword
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: Tovi on August 31, 2012, 12:57:31 pm
Most advices consider a 1 vs 1 duel configuration. But most of the time it's not the case. In the melee you don't have the time to dance around your opponent for 1 or 2 minutes. This is 1 hit or die.
So, now i'm a 30/9 shielder with a MW iron war axe ( 40 cut...). I wait the good opportunity, I strike, he dies ( or shield breaks).
My lvl 3 shield is enough. I'm slow but i fight in group, so I don't care being surrounded. Anyway I carry a cheap spear against cav or long swords. 30 pierce at 10 PS hurts a lot.
I like to feel powaa ! :)
Title: Re: One Hander Build Help
Post by: SayAttack on September 01, 2012, 07:27:08 pm
 :D