cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Paul on August 17, 2012, 12:11:44 pm

Title: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Paul on August 17, 2012, 12:11:44 pm
At the moment I am coding some off-hand melee actions for fun. No idea if it actually gets added to the mod at some point. Depends if I can make it decent enough that I am satisfied with it and if I can convince the other devs.

The general idea is from the MovieBattles mod for Jedi Knight Academy. It has a very sophisticated dueling system and the so-called nudge is part of it. It is a quick punch or slap with the off-hand that is not very powerful on its own but if timed right can be used to punish mistakes of the opponent.

For cRPG it would be set of hotkey(v key atm) triggered moves that have a very short range(0.5m) and a considerable cooldown(3s). If missing it, it would leave the user open for attacks and it can't be done while jumping, riding or in mid-swing. On hit these moves would interrupt, briefly stagger and/or knock the victim back - even through block. They shouldn't lead to a free follow up hit like kick but might be able to put the receiver in a tight spot. I think those moves could increase the depth of melee a bit and give additional options to overcome a block.

What I have at the moment is this:

Shield wielded

Nudge while blocking -> Quick shield shove, this move deals very low damage (in fact only naked feel anything) but has a considerable knockback effect. It can be used to push people around to stand your ground but it also leaves one open for attacks if missing it.

Nudge while readying an attack -> Shield backhand , rather long duration, strong shield attack that deals good damage to unprotected, staggers the victim quite long and knocks back diagonally. Leaves oneself wide open.

Nudge while neither blocking or readying an attack -> Shield edge bash, a right to left swing that hits with the edge of the shield. Has the least knockback but deals the most damage.

Shield damage and knockback power is increased by the user's strength and shield skill.

No shield wielded

At the moment 1h/2h/pole share those moves while shieldless 1h gets a bonus for one attack.

Nudge while blocking -> Shove, this move pushes the opponent away with the off-hand, creating some space. It has a long duration so missing it gives a good opportunity to the enemy. Very low damage.

Nudge while readying an attack -> Left straight, it's a strong punch that deals good damage and causes a long stagger. I might let glove weight help here for damage.

Nudge while neither blocking or readying an attack -> Low hook, a quick punch to the liver with low damage and short stagger. It's has a short duration and is mainly used for quick interupts. If used by 1h against a backpaddler it leads to a knockdown.

Strength increases knockback and damage for those moves at the moment. Maybe I'll let Weapon Master help too. Thinking about it. If I get the animation, I might also add a pomel hit for 1h and 2h if the nudge is done from the overhead swing readying position.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Vibe on August 17, 2012, 12:23:39 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



here's a nice video of the JA mod Paul is talking about (shows the "slap") - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqWu8K-C1Jo (slap at 1:15)
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Tzar on August 17, 2012, 12:33:06 pm
Quote from: Paul on August 17, 2012, 12:11:44 pm
Thoughts? Suggestions?

This all sounds very awesome and refreshing +1

Hope it doesn't buff 1h no manual block gameplay too much tho.


Quote from: Paul on August 17, 2012, 12:11:44 pm
causes a long stagger
Quote from: Paul on August 17, 2012, 12:11:44 pm
briefly stagger and/or knock the victim back

Plz dont add stagger unless we talking like a regular mini stagger  :D

Anyways it really sounds fuckin awesome paul hope it gets implemented will add tons of new things to rage at  :D
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Molly on August 17, 2012, 12:39:02 pm
Sounds awesome and fun.

...but I am with Tzar on the damage and the stagger. Rather make it depended on the shield weight for example. Heavy Steel shield should do more damage than a small fur covered shield.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: dodnet on August 17, 2012, 01:08:46 pm
How should that work with weapons hold with 2 hands - almost all of the weapons except 1h? You don't have a free hand there. It would only buff 1h and shielders?
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Micah on August 17, 2012, 01:37:25 pm
Quote from: dodnet on August 17, 2012, 01:08:46 pm
How should that work with weapons hold with 2 hands - almost all of the weapons except 1h? You don't have a free hand there. It would only buff 1h and shielders?
with elbow ...

i really like the idea of slapping,yet it would be just another version of kick, aiming to do the same what kicking was intended to : to defend against facehuggers , well we still have kicks tho, and they where nerfed heavily ...
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: dodnet on August 17, 2012, 01:45:39 pm
Quote from: Micah on August 17, 2012, 01:37:25 pm
with elbow ...

You must be facehugging to get your elbow in reach... so again its only for 1h.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Paul on August 17, 2012, 01:56:14 pm
It just uses the left arm for the nudge while holding the 2h/pole weapon in the right hand for a moment. Don't see a problem here aparts from maybe pikes.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: dodnet on August 17, 2012, 02:06:37 pm
Quote from: Paul on August 17, 2012, 01:56:14 pm
It just uses the left arm for the nudge while holding the 2h/pole weapon in the right hand for a moment. Don't see a problem here aparts from maybe pikes.

I see less problem with lances, pikes and spears as they are held in the middle already. There's more a balance problem with almost every other polearm and 2h when holding them with one hand. You would most likely drop them, esp if they get hit (blocking). I'm not even talking of a heavy hammer or maul...
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: cmp on August 17, 2012, 02:09:53 pm
Quote from: Tzar on August 17, 2012, 12:33:06 pm
Plz dont add stagger unless we talking like a regular mini stagger  :D

Anyways it really sounds fuckin awesome paul hope it gets implemented will add tons of new things to rage at  :D

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Okkam on August 17, 2012, 02:48:14 pm
What about some tricks that can:

1. Pull off enemy horseman (only if his horse was stopped ofcourse)
2. Knockdown opponent (combo with kick)
3. Blind opponent for 1-3 seconds (will work only on suitable ground)
4. Hold enemy weapon (you'll receive medium amount of damage every second instead) but your teammates can decapitate your opponent without big troubles
5. Hold enemy (in some conditions, if you approach enemy from the back) can be countered - Also can be used as «Take prisoner»
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Zerran on August 17, 2012, 03:01:28 pm
Quote from: Okkam on August 17, 2012, 02:48:14 pm

1. Pull off enemy horseman (only if his horse was stopped ofcourse)


YEEEEES!

As a pikeman that absolutely hates watching cav be able to prance happily away after I've stopped them, I would love to see this.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: MrShine on August 17, 2012, 03:16:12 pm
What would be the benefit of using a 'slap' as opposed to just kicking?  I'm all for things to add to the combat, but so far it sounds like they are going to be like shorter kicks that sometimes deal damage... I guess I don't see what situations using one of these slaps would be better than using a kick.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Tydeus on August 17, 2012, 04:24:26 pm
The kicks don't really function as any of the shield bashes, and the other punches are interrupts that you can do while moving and are much shorter in duration. They break the block, attack, block, attack rhythm, which is always good. The 1h anti-backpedaling nudge is there to create a tool for 1h no shielders to fight, well, pretty much everyone but mostly Glaive s-key heroes and the like. Basically, mashing your s key with a long range weapon then kicking when people get too close, is too effective for having too little risk involved and is a fighting style that just about everyone can use against any 1her.

Tired of your opponents feint spam or excessive holds? Rather than attempting a chamber, you can use an interrupt.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: isatis on August 17, 2012, 04:45:45 pm
anything that add depth in combat is welcomed!!
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Peasant_Woman on August 17, 2012, 07:18:56 pm
Sounds great, lets hope it comes to a point where you're happy with it.
Particularly excited for the 2h/pole shove move, I can see this helping longpole users create enough room to spinstab effectively while fighting facehuggers.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Torben on August 17, 2012, 07:40:00 pm
the nudge you described would be wonderful to have with 2handed polearms as well-  giving lance cave some close combat capability when cornered.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Logen on August 17, 2012, 11:54:45 pm
we 2h heroes need the ability to hit with the pommel
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Bobthehero on August 18, 2012, 12:00:14 am
Holy sweet flying baby jesus on jetpack

YES
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: wayyyyyne on August 18, 2012, 12:12:31 am
Would certainly make me go 1h for some time
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Rumblood on August 18, 2012, 01:05:04 am
Put it in. If it doesn't work out, take it out. This is a beta test right?  :wink:
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on August 18, 2012, 02:23:55 am
Sounds awesome but just seems like another buff to 2h and pole vrs shield. Just like kicking, their weapon outranges and when shield gets barely close enough to attack, wham free block kick slash.

Unless........one or two of these below.

Shielders are still covered during animation.
Shielders are not fixed in position during animation.
Shielders have a knockdown chance.
Shield outranges kick and is faster (kick counter)
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Turkhammer on August 18, 2012, 02:27:03 am
Quote from: isatis on August 17, 2012, 04:45:45 pm
anything that add depth realism in combat is welcomed!!

I now approve of this message.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 18, 2012, 02:28:27 am
This will improve swashbuckling and make things all-around fun, I approve.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Elindor on August 18, 2012, 02:48:06 am
Quote from: Peasant_Woman on August 17, 2012, 07:18:56 pm
Particularly excited for the 2h/pole shove move, I can see this helping longpole users create enough room to spinstab effectively while fighting facehuggers.

: OFF TOPIC :

....wha?  longpole spinstabbers are still able to jump away, spin in mid air, and attack you (even though you are well inside the end of their spear) and force you to downblock nonstop.  Now, I have a relatively short weapon, so others may not have as much this issue...but don't know if longpole users need tools to move people away from them (not to mention they somehow are able to hoise that 15 ft shaft around quickly enough to parry even quick attackers). 

Shielders, however could use something to push people away from them yes.

: /END OFF TOPIC :

Overall, like the ideas  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on August 18, 2012, 04:25:21 am
Great ideas. But, maybe make the hotkey customizable? V is the key I use to change views.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Cyclopsided on August 18, 2012, 02:45:42 pm
Quote from: Froto_the_Loc on August 18, 2012, 04:25:21 am
Great ideas. But, maybe make the hotkey customizable? V is the key I use to change views.
of course.
Also, I use V for changing views as well!
I use R to sheath weapons, makes sooo much more sense that way.
But I'd use R for slapping people. God yes.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Tydeus on August 18, 2012, 03:17:08 pm
Fuck Q for voice chat. Rebind that shit to (v)oice and use q for nudges.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Rebelyell on August 18, 2012, 06:02:42 pm
Quote from: Vibe on August 17, 2012, 12:23:39 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



here's a nice video of the JA mod Paul is talking about (shows the "slap") - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqWu8K-C1Jo (slap at 1:15)
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Jarlek on August 21, 2012, 11:07:48 pm
This is really cool.

This suggestion might also be relevant to this:
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/throwing-daggers-knives-fast-'draw'/new/#new
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Gurnisson on August 21, 2012, 11:37:35 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on August 18, 2012, 03:17:08 pm
Fuck Q for voice chat. Rebind that shit to (v)oice and use q for nudges.

Q is my kick button. :oops:
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Radament on August 22, 2012, 03:53:16 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on August 21, 2012, 11:37:35 pm
Q is my kick button. :oops:
Q is my view outfit button  :shock:

anyways i'd like to see all there features implemented , new features = new things to learn + enhanched gameplay.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Teeth on August 23, 2012, 05:59:51 pm
Bump for an amazing combat depth increasing initiative. I really hope this will go anywhere.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Haboe on August 23, 2012, 07:51:48 pm
Keep dis at the top, we cant afford to forget this!
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: HarunYahya on August 26, 2012, 05:45:00 am
Must have !
Great work Paul .
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Kafein on August 26, 2012, 01:38:42 pm
q is my zoom key D:
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Cicero on August 26, 2012, 02:34:59 pm
TL ; DR
hello shieldbash ?
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Ulmarth on October 13, 2012, 12:56:32 pm
bump for win!
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Kafein on October 13, 2012, 01:22:38 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on August 17, 2012, 02:09:53 pm
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

Btw IMO using your off hand with 2h/pole weapons above length 140 or weight 2 doesn't make much sense. But then again, the weight values are very weird when you look at item stats closely.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Andy on October 15, 2012, 12:58:42 am
I cannot live without this. I will bump this thread untill the end of time if need! Sheild bash for the win!!!
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Dooz on October 15, 2012, 01:03:52 am
This sounds pretty great, will be an exciting day when it comes to fruition. Day eternal.

Quote from: Logen on August 17, 2012, 11:54:45 pm
we 2h heroes need the ability to hit with the pommel

Wow would that be awesome.  :shock: Wonder if such an animation and effect would be possible to pull off even...
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Cyclopsided on January 10, 2013, 04:35:04 pm
3 month bump.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Paul on January 10, 2013, 06:04:21 pm
next patch for rageball only.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Kafein on January 10, 2013, 06:51:32 pm
Quote from: Paul on January 10, 2013, 06:04:21 pm
next patch for rageball only.

yeah, rageball anyone ?


...


anyone ?
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Ujin on January 10, 2013, 07:05:21 pm
Quote from: Teeth on August 23, 2012, 05:59:51 pm
Bump for an amazing combat depth increasing initiative. I really hope this will go anywhere.
lmao at some point i was confused cause i thought i was still in the "double hit" topic. Made me cringe :D .
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Paul on January 10, 2013, 07:26:00 pm
rageball release only is for testing. after that we'll see if it is used for main crpg or not.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 11, 2013, 05:32:14 am
I agree that it adds depth and would make 1v1 fights much more complex. However, consider the fact that 95% of players on battle and siege servers never use the kick except for joke teamwounds at end of the round. This sounds like a lot of effort put into something a large portion of the playerbase might never use.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Paul on January 11, 2013, 08:03:18 am
Tbh I put effort in it because it's fun to me to create a system like this. I didn't really think about how many will use it or how useful it will be. I don't really care.
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 11, 2013, 08:11:38 am
Quote from: Micah on August 17, 2012, 01:37:25 pm
with elbow ...

i really like the idea of slapping,yet it would be just another version of kick, aiming to do the same what kicking was intended to : to defend against facehuggers , well we still have kicks tho, and they where nerfed heavily ...
you can also hit the face with the pommel, hurts alot and has pretty good reach
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: Vodner on January 11, 2013, 07:01:41 pm
So has anybody tried these out on the RB EU server? These sound pretty cool.

I've played very little in the past several months, but a bunch of new melee dynamics might pull me back in (and others I'm sure).
Title: Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
Post by: StormFaction on January 12, 2013, 11:09:22 pm
Pleeeeeeeeeease add this <3333333