Author Topic: Nudge and general off-hand fun  (Read 4805 times)

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Offline Paul

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Nudge and general off-hand fun
« on: August 17, 2012, 12:11:44 pm »
+60
At the moment I am coding some off-hand melee actions for fun. No idea if it actually gets added to the mod at some point. Depends if I can make it decent enough that I am satisfied with it and if I can convince the other devs.

The general idea is from the MovieBattles mod for Jedi Knight Academy. It has a very sophisticated dueling system and the so-called nudge is part of it. It is a quick punch or slap with the off-hand that is not very powerful on its own but if timed right can be used to punish mistakes of the opponent.

For cRPG it would be set of hotkey(v key atm) triggered moves that have a very short range(0.5m) and a considerable cooldown(3s). If missing it, it would leave the user open for attacks and it can't be done while jumping, riding or in mid-swing. On hit these moves would interrupt, briefly stagger and/or knock the victim back - even through block. They shouldn't lead to a free follow up hit like kick but might be able to put the receiver in a tight spot. I think those moves could increase the depth of melee a bit and give additional options to overcome a block.

What I have at the moment is this:

Shield wielded

Nudge while blocking -> Quick shield shove, this move deals very low damage (in fact only naked feel anything) but has a considerable knockback effect. It can be used to push people around to stand your ground but it also leaves one open for attacks if missing it.

Nudge while readying an attack -> Shield backhand , rather long duration, strong shield attack that deals good damage to unprotected, staggers the victim quite long and knocks back diagonally. Leaves oneself wide open.

Nudge while neither blocking or readying an attack -> Shield edge bash, a right to left swing that hits with the edge of the shield. Has the least knockback but deals the most damage.

Shield damage and knockback power is increased by the user's strength and shield skill.

No shield wielded

At the moment 1h/2h/pole share those moves while shieldless 1h gets a bonus for one attack.

Nudge while blocking -> Shove, this move pushes the opponent away with the off-hand, creating some space. It has a long duration so missing it gives a good opportunity to the enemy. Very low damage.

Nudge while readying an attack -> Left straight, it's a strong punch that deals good damage and causes a long stagger. I might let glove weight help here for damage.

Nudge while neither blocking or readying an attack -> Low hook, a quick punch to the liver with low damage and short stagger. It's has a short duration and is mainly used for quick interupts. If used by 1h against a backpaddler it leads to a knockdown.

Strength increases knockback and damage for those moves at the moment. Maybe I'll let Weapon Master help too. Thinking about it. If I get the animation, I might also add a pomel hit for 1h and 2h if the nudge is done from the overhead swing readying position.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 12:14:46 pm by Paul »

Offline Vibe

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 12:23:39 pm »
+15
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here's a nice video of the JA mod Paul is talking about (shows the "slap") - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqWu8K-C1Jo (slap at 1:15)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 12:37:31 pm by Vibe »

Offline Tzar

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 12:33:06 pm »
0
Thoughts? Suggestions?

This all sounds very awesome and refreshing +1

Hope it doesn't buff 1h no manual block gameplay too much tho.


causes a long stagger
briefly stagger and/or knock the victim back

Plz dont add stagger unless we talking like a regular mini stagger  :D

Anyways it really sounds fuckin awesome paul hope it gets implemented will add tons of new things to rage at  :D
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 04:34:53 pm by Tzar »
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Offline Molly

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 12:39:02 pm »
+1
Sounds awesome and fun.

...but I am with Tzar on the damage and the stagger. Rather make it depended on the shield weight for example. Heavy Steel shield should do more damage than a small fur covered shield.
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Offline dodnet

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 01:08:46 pm »
0
How should that work with weapons hold with 2 hands - almost all of the weapons except 1h? You don't have a free hand there. It would only buff 1h and shielders?
The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight he will fight.

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Offline Micah

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 01:37:25 pm »
0
How should that work with weapons hold with 2 hands - almost all of the weapons except 1h? You don't have a free hand there. It would only buff 1h and shielders?
with elbow ...

i really like the idea of slapping,yet it would be just another version of kick, aiming to do the same what kicking was intended to : to defend against facehuggers , well we still have kicks tho, and they where nerfed heavily ...
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Offline dodnet

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2012, 01:45:39 pm »
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with elbow ...

You must be facehugging to get your elbow in reach... so again its only for 1h.
The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight he will fight.

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Offline Paul

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2012, 01:56:14 pm »
+2
It just uses the left arm for the nudge while holding the 2h/pole weapon in the right hand for a moment. Don't see a problem here aparts from maybe pikes.

Offline dodnet

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2012, 02:06:37 pm »
0
It just uses the left arm for the nudge while holding the 2h/pole weapon in the right hand for a moment. Don't see a problem here aparts from maybe pikes.

I see less problem with lances, pikes and spears as they are held in the middle already. There's more a balance problem with almost every other polearm and 2h when holding them with one hand. You would most likely drop them, esp if they get hit (blocking). I'm not even talking of a heavy hammer or maul...
The logic of war seems to be that if a belligerent can fight he will fight.

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Offline cmp

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2012, 02:09:53 pm »
+8
Plz dont add stagger unless we talking like a regular mini stagger  :D

Anyways it really sounds fuckin awesome paul hope it gets implemented will add tons of new things to rage at  :D

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Offline Okkam

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2012, 02:48:14 pm »
0
What about some tricks that can:

1. Pull off enemy horseman (only if his horse was stopped ofcourse)
2. Knockdown opponent (combo with kick)
3. Blind opponent for 1-3 seconds (will work only on suitable ground)
4. Hold enemy weapon (you'll receive medium amount of damage every second instead) but your teammates can decapitate your opponent without big troubles
5. Hold enemy (in some conditions, if you approach enemy from the back) can be countered - Also can be used as «Take prisoner»

Offline Zerran

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2012, 03:01:28 pm »
+1

1. Pull off enemy horseman (only if his horse was stopped ofcourse)


YEEEEES!

As a pikeman that absolutely hates watching cav be able to prance happily away after I've stopped them, I would love to see this.
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Offline MrShine

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2012, 03:16:12 pm »
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What would be the benefit of using a 'slap' as opposed to just kicking?  I'm all for things to add to the combat, but so far it sounds like they are going to be like shorter kicks that sometimes deal damage... I guess I don't see what situations using one of these slaps would be better than using a kick.
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2012, 04:24:26 pm »
+6
The kicks don't really function as any of the shield bashes, and the other punches are interrupts that you can do while moving and are much shorter in duration. They break the block, attack, block, attack rhythm, which is always good. The 1h anti-backpedaling nudge is there to create a tool for 1h no shielders to fight, well, pretty much everyone but mostly Glaive s-key heroes and the like. Basically, mashing your s key with a long range weapon then kicking when people get too close, is too effective for having too little risk involved and is a fighting style that just about everyone can use against any 1her.

Tired of your opponents feint spam or excessive holds? Rather than attempting a chamber, you can use an interrupt.
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Re: Nudge and general off-hand fun
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2012, 04:45:45 pm »
+1
anything that add depth in combat is welcomed!!
So the new response to ranged ragers is not "get a shield", it is "learn to chamber ranged nub!"
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