cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Tom Cruise on August 01, 2012, 07:52:00 pm

Title: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 01, 2012, 07:52:00 pm
90 Speed

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Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 01, 2012, 07:52:27 pm
I agree, terribly OP and should be nerfed. +1
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 01, 2012, 08:03:07 pm
I agree, terribly OP and should be nerfed. +1

Well that to go along with the reach on it? GF.  :P
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Digglez on August 01, 2012, 08:58:37 pm
Should be uniform across the board, any weapon longer than 150 SHOULD NOT be Sheathable
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 01, 2012, 09:10:46 pm
Should be uniform across the board, any weapon longer than 150 SHOULD NOT be Sheathable

Yup the devs should just assign the can't sheath tag to all weapons across the board according to an arbitrary number that you give us.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Leshma on August 02, 2012, 12:41:53 am
That's what you get when people like Paul, Fasader, okiN and other fine gentlemen do balancing work.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Digglez on August 02, 2012, 01:49:38 am
Yup the devs should just assign the can't sheath tag to all weapons across the board according to an arbitrary number that you give us.

Yep, having a weapon that is LONGER than the distance from your knees to your shoulders+1ft that has to be carried at such an angle that you cant fit thru doorways.  150 is a great cut off

Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 02, 2012, 04:26:50 am
"The pilum (plural pila) was a javelin commonly used by the Roman army in ancient times. It was generally about two metres long overall, consisting of an iron shank about 7 mm in diameter and 60 cm long with pyramidal head. The shank was joined to the wooded shaft by either a socket or a flat tang."

A Roman Legionnaire carried two pila onto the battlefield (Not counting specialist cohorts in every Legion who carried more.). They were "sheathed."
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Digglez on August 02, 2012, 04:40:54 am
"The pilum (plural pila) was a javelin commonly used by the Roman army in ancient times. It was generally about two metres long overall, consisting of an iron shank about 7 mm in diameter and 60 cm long with pyramidal head. The shank was joined to the wooded shaft by either a socket or a flat tang."

A Roman Legionnaire carried two pila onto the battlefield

Yep.  Go ahead and show me a 'pilum sheath' for an individual soldier and quit talking out of your ass
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 02, 2012, 04:55:14 am
Yep.  Go ahead and show me a 'pilum sheath' for an individual soldier and quit talking out of your ass
Shields  :mrgreen:

Even could carry them in the shield and be ready with the Spatha at the same time (Gladius were not commonly used for the majority of the Empire's glorious history, contrary to popular culture).

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So....

My ass is apparently pretty opinionated.

Isn't it so weird that a military who decided to use something a lot decided that carrying it by hand was a pretty crappy way of doing things in battle, and found a convenient solution?

granted, this could never be done for things like, say, a traditional pike obviously...

But 150cm long weapon "sheathed" as in you DO NOT have to drop it to use another weapon is a pretty manageable thing to do. I mean, Longbows are pretty long but they could be carried on the back so "sheathed" when needed.

I await your well-informed and opinionated retort good sir Digglez!
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on August 02, 2012, 10:25:29 am
I don't know, I recon I could sheath a pike on my back.

Using it would a bit difficult but I suppose I could just lean forward and run at things like some kind of insane bull.

I'm following you o.O

xoxo
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Molly on August 02, 2012, 10:47:10 am
Again countering a game balance argument with a historic argument?

GTFO!
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 02, 2012, 10:49:18 am
Again countering a game balance argument with a historic argument?

GTFO!

My bro Digglez started it!

Then, you know... Kittens got real.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Molly on August 02, 2012, 10:54:47 am
My bro Digglez started it!

Then, you know... Kittens got real.
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Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Zerran on August 02, 2012, 11:16:34 am
I don't know, I recon I could sheath a pike on my back.

Using it would a bit difficult but I suppose I could just lean forward and run at things like some kind of insane bull.

I'm following you o.O

xoxo

YES!!! LET ME DO THIS NOOOOOW!!!
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 02, 2012, 11:19:51 am
90 Speed

LOL GOOD JOKE DEVS

Yeah increase the speed. That's just pathetic number!
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Latvian on August 02, 2012, 12:07:26 pm
no....... just no

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Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 02, 2012, 03:28:13 pm
Yep, having a weapon that is LONGER than the distance from your knees to your shoulders+1ft that has to be carried at such an angle that you cant fit thru doorways.  150 is a great cut off


cute video.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Digglez on August 03, 2012, 05:30:38 am
Isn't it so weird that a military who decided to use something a lot decided that carrying it by hand was a pretty crappy way of doing things in battle, and found a convenient solution?
granted, this could never be done for things like, say, a traditional pike obviously...

But 150cm long weapon "sheathed" as in you DO NOT have to drop it to use another weapon is a pretty manageable thing to do. I mean, Longbows are pretty long but they could be carried on the back so "sheathed" when needed.

Last I checked, cRPG's length units were not CM.  You think a pike is 300 cm?  Laugh.

Still waiting for some citations on your make believe answers bro.  Maybe you are confusing pilum (5-7ft) with darts (1.5 ft) that were clipped to a shield.  You think someone is going to "clip" a 7 ft javelin to their shield?

Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Teeth on August 03, 2012, 11:58:45 am
Thing is, Paul is probably convinced that a 90 speed rating means that the glaive is exactly as fast as any other 90 speed weapon. He;s wrong though. Glaive and Long Hafted Blade have these crazy fast swings while having a ton of reach.

Shit is OP, atleast in duel, not sure how annoying the reach is in battle.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Vibe on August 03, 2012, 12:23:12 pm
Glaive and Long Hafted Blade have these crazy fast swings

No they don't.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: _Tak_ on August 03, 2012, 01:01:45 pm
Buff Glaive speed, its way too slow
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 03, 2012, 03:59:57 pm
Last I checked, cRPG's length units were not CM.  You think a pike is 300 cm?  Laugh.

Quote from: wikipedia
The pike was a long weapon, varying considerably in size, from 3 to 7.5 metres (10 to 25 feet) long. It was supposed to be about 16 ft but the soldiers normally cut a few feet off to make it easier to carry.

Seems like the pike could easily be 300 cm.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 03, 2012, 05:24:57 pm
Why shouldn't the Glaive have 90 speed? Its attacks have only slightly longer reach than the danish greatsword anyway.

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Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Leshma on August 03, 2012, 05:59:19 pm
I wouldn't call that slightly longer.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 03, 2012, 07:02:18 pm
Why shouldn't the Glaive have 90 speed? Its attacks have only slightly longer reach than the danish greatsword anyway.



No I'm not saying its speed shouldn't be 90, I'm saying its speed isn't 90. That thing seems waaaaaaay faster then 90 speed and for its length. You can especially tell in a duel with someone that uses. Take Rhaelys for example.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 03, 2012, 08:51:12 pm
No I'm not saying its speed shouldn't be 90, I'm saying its speed isn't 90. That thing seems waaaaaaay faster then 90 speed and for its length. You can especially tell in a duel with someone that uses. Take Rhaelys for example.

Rhaelys uses the Great Long Bardiche last I checked, and yes, I already know that it's faster than it seems. Same thing applies to the greatswords.

Consider this: Higher weapon weight and higher damage lessens your chances of glancing. Because of that your weapons sweet-spots can be stretched. In other words, you can turn into your swings to connect earlier in the swing arc and still maintain full damage. You should know about this considering you use a Sword of War.

Simply put, weapon speed is a worthless stat to bother thinking about if you know how to turn into your swings properly based on your damage and weapon weight. Why do you think 2-handers can pull of double swings so easily and not 1-handers?
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 03, 2012, 09:33:24 pm
Rhaelys uses the Great Long Bardiche last I checked, and yes, I already know that it's faster than it seems. Same thing applies to the greatswords.

Consider this: Higher weapon weight and higher damage lessens your chances of glancing. Because of that your weapons sweet-spots can be stretched. In other words, you can turn into your swings to connect earlier in the swing arc and still maintain full damage. You should know about this considering you use a Sword of War.

Simply put, weapon speed is a worthless stat to bother thinking about if you know how to turn into your swings properly based on your damage and weapon weight. Why do you think 2-handers can pull of double swings so easily and not 1-handers?

Well a lot depends on the animations for double swings. Castoring and hilt slashing is much easier with 2h than any other class due to the animations imo. The Glaive is 2.8 in wieght, and my Sword of war only only coming in at .2 more at 3 weight. So glancing shouldn't be a problem with the Glaive. Now put that along with the reach and magic speed of it, you can pretty much out spam and outreach almost anyone. With something as simple as the backpeddle you should get an easy advantage.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 03, 2012, 09:38:34 pm
Well a lot depends on the animations for double swings. Castoring and hilt slashing is much easier with 2h than any other class due to the animations imo. The Glaive is 2.8 in wieght, and my Sword of war only only coming in at .2 more at 3 weight. So glancing shouldn't be a problem with the Glaive. Now put that along with the reach and magic speed of it, you can pretty much out spam and outreach almost anyone. With something as simple as the backpeddle you should get an easy advantage.

Your Sword of War has more weight and has more damage in all attack directions, therefore you can hit earlier in the swing arc. Your sword is faster than the glaive and the glaive is longer than your sword. Fair trade-off.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 03, 2012, 09:45:39 pm
Your Sword of War has more weight and has more damage in all attack directions, therefore you can hit earlier in the swing arc. Your sword is faster than the glaive and the glaive is longer than your sword. Fair trade-off.

It barely weighs more and only has 1  more attack point in swing then the Glaive. The speed imo is faster then my sword, maybe not my much but its faster. But my whole point in this is I'm saying for its reach and damage it is too fast.

Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 03, 2012, 09:47:54 pm
The speed imo is faster then my sword, maybe not my much but its faster.

Well you're wrong.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 03, 2012, 09:49:45 pm
Well you're wrong.

Tom, don't be mean.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 03, 2012, 09:51:26 pm
Tom, don't be mean.

Sorry Tom, but is it easier to double-swing with a glaive or a sword of war?
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 03, 2012, 09:51:36 pm
Looks like we have a Tom fight on our hands.

Tom Cruis are you basing your observations on fighting Rhaelys or just in general?
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 03, 2012, 09:54:53 pm
Sorry Tom, but is it easier to double-swing with a glaive or a sword of war?

Well double swing doesn't matter if I cant reach the opponent. If they are faster then me (running speed, backbeddling, etc.) then I'll just be swinging at air and blocking until I get close enough to hit him/her.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tom Cruise on August 03, 2012, 09:55:44 pm
Looks like we have a Tom fight on our hands.

Tom Cruis are you basing your observations on fighting Rhaelys or just in general?

Basing it in general. It can easily be slow put in a peasants hands, but in a skilled players hands, that's a different story.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 03, 2012, 10:02:34 pm
Well double swing doesn't matter if I cant reach the opponent. If they are faster then me (running speed, backbeddling, etc.) then I'll just be swinging at air and blocking until I get close enough to hit him/her.

So what exactly is forcing you to fight that person if he's just holding down his S-key? If he's not looking where he's going to bump into one of your teammates at some point.

Besides, what you said just now could be said of any long weapon: Long Spear, Pike, Flamberge.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 03, 2012, 10:04:17 pm
Something outreaches danish great sword in swings = NENENENENENEEEEERFFFF THAT SHIT!! :rolleyes:

I would certainly get myself a masterwork glaive, but it gets in the way when I'm on horseback and I don't see everything. Yeah glaive trollers can be annoying in duels but go to battle or siege and watch them rage as their weapon of mass destruction gets stuck in every wall, friendly shields, blocks and rushing team mates :D.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 03, 2012, 10:27:02 pm
wow...
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 03, 2012, 10:50:51 pm
wow...
+1
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: zagibu on August 05, 2012, 12:50:53 am
Last I checked, cRPG's length units were not CM.  You think a pike is 300 cm?  Laugh.

You checked wrong. What else should they be?
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: rustyspoon on August 07, 2012, 11:21:22 pm
Last I checked, cRPG's length units were not CM.  You think a pike is 300 cm?  Laugh.

You checked wrong. What else should they be?

Definitely cm. 300 cm is almost 10 feet, which sounds about right for a pike.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 08, 2012, 05:59:09 pm
ITT: people teaching Digglez about SI- units, again! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on August 08, 2012, 06:47:32 pm
Thing is, Paul is probably convinced that a 90 speed rating means that the glaive is exactly as fast as any other 90 speed weapon. He;s wrong though. Glaive and Long Hafted Blade have these crazy fast swings while having a ton of reach.

Shit is OP, atleast in duel, not sure how annoying the reach is in battle.

You're sorta right, but not quite.

The weapons speed explains the time it takes to finish an animation. And that's it.

However, there may be parts of the animation where the weapon is actually moving faster than others. It has been noted with polearm sideswings from the start, that the middle of their swings are unusually fast.

So yes, it IS faster than what the weapon speed suggests.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: zDevilBox on August 12, 2012, 05:01:07 pm
You little 90 speed?  :mrgreen:
One-handed weapons very fast.  :idea:
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Vibe on August 13, 2012, 11:59:45 pm
I tested Glaive vs Danish Greatsword animation, recorded with high FPS and watched frame by frame. And while the speed of the swing was faster than the Danish (only the swing), it was barely noticable and anything but "crazy" fast.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Leshma on August 14, 2012, 12:03:56 am
Yeah but Danish has 92 speed while Glaive has 90.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Rebelyell on August 14, 2012, 12:07:28 am
DGS and GGS are kind of joke too
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Gurnisson on August 14, 2012, 12:45:41 am
Yeah but Danish has 92 speed while Glaive has 90.

Readying the attack and releasing with a simple attack (no hold) seems slower with polearms than 2H, but the swing itself seems faster with polearms. I guess if you like to hold attacks then polearms are a nice choice since the swing speed seems faster than 2H
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Leshma on August 14, 2012, 01:11:11 am
I thought he was testing the whole animation. Yes, swing is faster. Even I know that.

Both animations (2H and poles) are retarded though, but there aren't better alternatives, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Glaive
Post by: Vibe on August 14, 2012, 07:30:19 am
I did test the whole animation, but I also said that only the swing part of the pole animation is faster than 2h. 2h has a faster start though, as in pole is longer in the chamber animation before it goes into the swing animation (on a non holded swing).

My point was to tell Teeth and Ramses that even then, the speed of the pole swing is not "crazy" or "unusual" fast, just a little faster.