cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: BlackMilk on July 02, 2012, 06:28:57 pm

Title: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: BlackMilk on July 02, 2012, 06:28:57 pm
I know that 21/15 and 18/18 are the standard builds for players of the 1h/shield class but for me personally neither the 15 agi on the first nor the 18 str on the second one really suit me well as a 1h/shielder (shorter and less damaging than 2h/polearm). Thus i was wondering if this build is viable and if its not id like to know your opinion about how its not a good build..

21/18
4 Ironflesh
7 Powerstrike
6 Shield
6 Athletics
0 Weapon Master

Discuss!
Title: Re: Which build to choose for a shielder?
Post by: rustyspoon on July 02, 2012, 06:33:55 pm
I know that 21/15 and 18/18 are the standard builds for players of the 1h/shield class but for me personally neither the 15 agi on the first nor the 18 str on the second one really suit me well as a 1h/shielder (shorter and less damaging than 2h/polearm). Thus i was wondering if this build is viable and if its not id like to know your opinion about how its not a good build..

21/18
4 Ironflesh
7 Powerstrike
6 Shield
6 Athletics
0 Weapon Master

Discuss!

Totally viable and far superior to 21/15 imo.

I personally prefer 18/21 myself, but 21/18 is totally great.
Title: Re: Which build to choose for a shielder?
Post by: Cumface on July 02, 2012, 06:44:03 pm
Light armor, nordic champions sword...

Code: [Select]
Level:           30

Strength:        24
Agility:         15

Attr to skill:    0
Skill to attr:    8

Ironflash:        5
Power Strike:     8
Shield:           5
Athletics:        5
Riding:           0
Horse Archery:    0
Power Draw:       0
Power Throw:      0
Weapon Master:    0

One Handed:     111
Two Handed:       1
Polearm:          1
Archery:          1
Crossbow:         1
Throwing:         1
using cRPG NewGen calc (http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB)
Title: Re: Which build to choose for a shielder?
Post by: Digglez on July 02, 2012, 07:09:52 pm
prob dont need 6 shield if you have 6 ATHLETICS and/or a decent blocker. get some WPF
Title: Re: Which build to choose for a shielder?
Post by: Cumface on July 02, 2012, 07:15:52 pm
prob dont need 6 shield if you have 6 ATHLETICS and/or a decent blocker. get some WPF
WPF = useless, PS = useful
Title: Re: Which build to choose for a shielder?
Post by: Digglez on July 02, 2012, 07:16:43 pm
WPF = useless, PS = useful

10 WPF = 1% damage
Title: Re: Which build to choose for a shielder?
Post by: Cumface on July 02, 2012, 07:17:47 pm
10 WPF = 1% damage
Lies-.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: rustyspoon on July 02, 2012, 07:33:55 pm
The difference between 111 WPF and 150 WPF is about 2 points of damage. Not worth the investment at all.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on July 02, 2012, 08:42:01 pm
I'm not so sure about no weapon master.
Maybe it's just me, but it just doesn't work out.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: BlackMilk on July 02, 2012, 09:18:07 pm
I'm not so sure about no weapon master.
Maybe it's just me, but it just doesn't work out.
how so? Lack of speed?
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Shatter on July 02, 2012, 10:55:44 pm
I know that 21/15 and 18/18 are the standard builds for players of the 1h/shield class but for me personally neither the 15 agi on the first nor the 18 str on the second one really suit me well as a 1h/shielder (shorter and less damaging than 2h/polearm). Thus i was wondering if this build is viable and if its not id like to know your opinion about how its not a good build..

21/18
4 Ironflesh
7 Powerstrike
6 Shield
6 Athletics
0 Weapon Master

Discuss!
I really like the build. It is the same build I use as shielder except I get 5 IF and 5 shield instead of 4 IF and 6 shield. I'm not a big fan of WM. The difference is hardly noticeable when compared to having more health/shield skill.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on July 02, 2012, 11:11:10 pm
how so? Lack of speed?
Maybe it's just I've always used WM builds.
I'm crazy, just ignore me.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Frell on July 02, 2012, 11:12:27 pm
Why 0 wm?


Im going 21/15
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: rustyspoon on July 02, 2012, 11:20:46 pm
Why 0 wm?


Im going 21/15

It's a bad point investment. The difference between 111 WPF (0 WM) and 145 (5 WM) is 1-2 points of damage increase. Also 100 WPF increases your swing speed by about .06 seconds. So an extra 30 will increase it by roughly .02 seconds. Kind of a waste for 5 points. You could just take those and increase your str and PS instead. Much better point investment.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: San on July 02, 2012, 11:36:09 pm
Yeah, 21/18 would be better for anyone competent in melee already. No reason not to go low WM build for pure infantry. Swing speed  does matter a little bit in terms of recognizing when your swing would beat out your opponent's, but the swing animation has much more of an effect on that. All of my pure 1h dream builds involve no WM at all.

I wear heavy armor and my effective wpf comes out to ~100 from 131 with 1h and I still swing fast. Medium armor with 111 should be just fine.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Phew on July 03, 2012, 02:27:07 am
Compare say 21/15 to 24/15. The extra ~40 WPF of 5 WM is equal to about 0.5 Power Strike and 2 weapon speed, not to mention fewer weapon repairs. Compare that to 3 HP and 1 Power Strike. People pick 2 weapon speed over ~1 dmg all the time (Italian vs. KAS, for instance), and both swords are good.

The difference isn't that significant, and it's pretty balanced between damage and speed. Just pick your style.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Malaclypse on July 03, 2012, 03:18:30 am
If you have a MW 1-hander lined up, I'd personally go for 15/24 for the mobility in group fights, and for chasing down cowards. 5 Powerstrike is still plenty with a MW weapon, speed bonus, and held attacks. Even more so if you're using a pierce or blunt damage weapon, though cut functions quite well as well.

5 ps, 5 shield, 8 ath, 5 extra points (for IF, more shield, or WM by preference; I'd max IF). I'm doing a variant of this build where at level 30 I'm 17/24 (building for 31) with no IF and it's very fun so far.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Gurnisson on July 03, 2012, 04:19:57 am
21/18 or 18/21 for dedicated shielder
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Mlekce on July 03, 2012, 11:41:35 am
i tried 21/15 and it is ok for a siedge,but for battle you nee more athl,and some dudes with very heavy armor were pain in the ass.
But overall it isn't that bad,i had pretty diecent score in battle and very good at siedge.
I am gonna try this next gen

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 6
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 5
Athletics: 6
Riding: 6
One Handed: 114

i have mw kas,elite cav shield and armor. If you can afford,buy mw elite scimitar. Don't buy scimitar,buy elite one. That thing is every spammer dream come true.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: HarunYahya on July 03, 2012, 01:43:09 pm
21/18 or 18/21 for dedicated shielder
Gurni fuck your sig man im always watching it for hours !!!
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: MrShine on July 03, 2012, 04:34:20 pm
Compare say 21/15 to 24/15. The extra ~40 WPF of 5 WM is equal to about 0.5 Power Strike and 2 weapon speed, not to mention fewer weapon repairs. Compare that to 3 HP and 1 Power Strike. People pick 2 weapon speed over ~1 dmg all the time (Italian vs. KAS, for instance), and both swords are good.

The difference isn't that significant, and it's pretty balanced between damage and speed. Just pick your style.

That's how I feel as well - generally it's a toss up IMO if you are deciding between 5 WM & 1 more PS since they are very similar in terms of actual damage output.  For example, I'm planning on a level 35 build.  At first I thought going 0 WM 24/21 build would be my choice, but then I realized that if I stuck with 21/21 7 WM I would actually be doing MORE damage per swing than the extra PS would give me. 

Back on topic, my favorite shielder builds are 21/15 & 21/18 (in that order).  Both are quite good, and your suggested build is completely viable.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Frell on July 03, 2012, 04:38:28 pm
So im respeccing and Im curious on what build I should do..

I was at about 18/15 (goal 21/15) and easily went 22k-9d in one match

But I also respecced again and had 6/18 (goal 21/18), and was still able to land about 3 kills with crazy low str


So I don't think the speed really matters... Whats the pros and cons of each?
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Gurnisson on July 03, 2012, 05:40:19 pm
That's how I feel as well - generally it's a toss up IMO if you are deciding between 5 WM & 1 more PS since they are very similar in terms of actual damage output.  For example, I'm planning on a level 35 build.  At first I thought going 0 WM 24/21 build would be my choice, but then I realized that if I stuck with 21/21 7 WM I would actually be doing MORE damage per swing than the extra PS would give me. 

Depends. 3 strength adds damage too, and the 3 strength also adds 3 hp which is nice to have. I think they're gonna make WM more viable later on, so I wouldn't go high level without it.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Frell on July 03, 2012, 05:48:09 pm
So gur, after my post above yours, I should just go 21/15 and not risk 0 wm?
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Cyclopsided on July 03, 2012, 06:06:53 pm
21/15 is the most reliable build as a 1h ever. 18/18, 24/15, 15/21 are close runner-ups.
21/18, 18/21, and 15/24 are great as well.

WM and WPF should get re-done in the near future, and WM HAS it's uses. Small amount more damage, the speed is rather negligible but helps on the longer slower 1hs like the ACS. (effectively 2 weaponspeed faster, is nice). The repair cost decrease is why i'd get it in the end. I like making gold when I play.

everything said in here is viable. Playstyle determines what's best.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Laufknoten on July 03, 2012, 06:31:49 pm
I think with a MW weapon this build is also pretty good:
(click to show/hide)

You will always have 100+ wpf in 1h even with heavy armor and you can mess around with polearms too. With a MW weapon you practically have 7 PS.
You could aswell sacrifice 3-5 of WM and put them into riding so you can go 1h cav from time to time, while it doesn't really affect your melee capability.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Zanze on July 03, 2012, 07:09:43 pm
I wouldn't suggest the polearms points, hopliting is very complicated unless you do it for awhile or are ready to drop the shield when people learn to downblock.

Just put all the wpf into your mainhand weapon, big diff between 100 and 150 wpf. (In damage NOT speed)

Also, to add to the thread. I personally tested a 24/12 Thane build that is now part of NH's staple builds and it work out amazingly. It is an NA build however and was focused more on quickly killing all those str crutchers. It included throwing in order to make horses whine for a throwing nerf, and had enough PS to 2 shot weaker people on siege. (With a sword)

If you don't want throwing, as most people don't for some odd reason, just do 24/15 or 21/18. For a first gen as a shielder, 21/15 is AWESOME. After that, you can decide where you want to go. If you want to hit harder, be faster, etc.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: oprah_winfrey on July 03, 2012, 08:26:59 pm
I wouldn't want to play with less then 6 ath, otherwise you can get S key spammed or circle spammed. This is even more important if you want to use a heavy shield or a short weapon (axe, warhammer, steel pick, etc). I also don't like having under 6 ps, although I guess if you use a pierce or blunt weapon you could manage.

If I owned a mw brown lion shield or round shield I would consider doing:

str:24
agi:18

ps:8
shield:3
ath:6

or

str:21
agi:21
ps:7
shield:3
ath:7

But with a regular shield I think it is going to break too often (unless you want to be primarily a swashbuckler with a shield for range)
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Miracle on July 03, 2012, 08:55:57 pm
I wouldn't want to play with less then 6 ath, otherwise you can get S key spammed or circle spammed. This is even more important if you want to use a heavy shield or a short weapon (axe, warhammer, steel pick, etc). I also don't like having under 6 ps, although I guess if you use a pierce or blunt weapon you could manage.

If I owned a mw brown lion shield or round shield I would consider doing:

str:24
agi:18

ps:8
shield:3
ath:6

or

str:21
agi:21
ps:7
shield:3
ath:7

But with a regular shield I think it is going to break too often (unless you want to be primarily a swashbuckler with a shield for range)

I've done 21/21 and loved it, but egan is right about the shield breaking stupidly fast.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Shatter on July 04, 2012, 01:42:44 am
So gur, after my post above yours, I should just go 21/15 and not risk 0 wm?
Either build is good but don't think of 0 WM as a risk. The difference is not going to be very big in swing speed. Having 0 WM doesn't make your swing speed dramatically slower. It is like changing to a weapon that has 1 or 2 less speed.
Title: Re: Which build to choose as a shielder?
Post by: Fartface on July 04, 2012, 02:52:04 pm
I use 24-15 , 3 if 8 ps 5 ath 2 wm .