cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: SchokoSchaf on June 22, 2012, 08:22:49 am
-
Since it's in realism and we all know what that means, I'd like to revive this (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,34394.0.html) topic for a moment.
My overall question is - is it even possible to implement a sort of shield bash as an replacement for kicking?
I remember a disscussion about this from a long time ago and somebody said something like "you can't block and kick with a shield because you need to lift your shield to kick". Yeah right. Whatever the outcome of a balancing discussion or justification of what sorts ever for this is, I'd like to know if this was possible at all - some sort of no-damage-dealing attack with a blocking/raised shield instead of kicking.
Edit: taleworldsform has an google entry for it, but is currently down, even so I put more trust in our def team than in the original one.
-
Then we get a new animation glitch source, why not?
-
Right now, 2h has every advantage over 1h/shield in facehug range, which is silly.
2h can block while kicking, shield can't
2h right swing is perfect for hiltslash, while 1h right swing is a molasses-slow glancefest
Shield bash should be a slightly better version of kick, since shielders should have the advantage close up. It should also have a cooldown or something so you can't spam it.
-
I'm sceptical about this.
-
There is a shield bash in the Floris mod but IMO it shouldn't be the shielder swinging the shield. I think they should get there shoulder behind it and then launch themselves forward a couple of steps and anything they hit gets knocked back, maybe if they ram some one from behind they get knocked down.
-
sheild holders should have their kick button "E" replaced with sheild bash while non sheild holders can still kick normally with "E".
-
Right now, 2h has every advantage over 1h/shield in facehug range, which is silly.
2h can block while kicking, shield can't
2h right swing is perfect for hiltslash, while 1h right swing is a molasses-slow glancefest
Shield bash should be a slightly better version of kick, since shielders should have the advantage close up. It should also have a cooldown or something so you can't spam it.
That's more 1h right swing just being bad, especially up close.
Almost anything can be better than shield kick, so I am open to any change, even if the shield bash ends up being a poor option. I killed a shielder who tried to kick me by jump slashing him. The swing went through the shield but that didn't matter -_-
-
Right now, 2h has every advantage over 1h/shield in facehug range, which is silly.
2h can block while kicking, shield can't
2h right swing is perfect for hiltslash, while 1h right swing is a molasses-slow glancefest
Shield bash should be a slightly better version of kick, since shielders should have the advantage close up. It should also have a cooldown or something so you can't spam it.
You forgot the point where you practically have autoblock of projectiles and melee hits from all sides and angles except to your direct sides and back.
-
How about we not start a "Your class is so much easier" arguement :|
-
Right now, 2h has every advantage over 1h/shield in facehug range, which is silly.
2h can block while kicking, shield can't
2h right swing is perfect for hiltslash, while 1h right swing is a molasses-slow glancefest
Shield bash should be a slightly better version of kick, since shielders should have the advantage close up. It should also have a cooldown or something so you can't spam it.
Except that a shielder can block much, much sooner after a knockdown while a 2h has to wait until they're on their feet. I'd say this is a fairly major advantage, especially for 1h shielder cavalry being dehorsed.
-
Right now, 2h has every advantage over 1h/shield in facehug range, which is silly.
2h can block while kicking, shield can't
2h right swing is perfect for hiltslash, while 1h right swing is a molasses-slow glancefest
Shield bash should be a slightly better version of kick, since shielders should have the advantage close up. It should also have a cooldown or something so you can't spam it.
This, for fucks sake.
-
Correct me if i'm wrong, but a shielder holding his shield can't be hitlslashed.
Also, if shielders use some 1h swords, then they should just do thrust. I like to remind that you can't block down when kicking. Don't see why 2h vs 2h use thrust attacks so much when shielders often only use overhead and left swing. Is it an habit they had after playing with a steel pick?
Also... 2h should pown a shielder, providing they have the same skill. Since the 2h usually looks like a pincushion at some point.
-
Correct me if i'm wrong, but a shielder holding his shield can't be hitlslashed.
Also, if shielders use some 1h swords, then they should just do thrust. I like to remind that you can't block down when kicking. Don't see why 2h vs 2h use thrust attacks so much when shielders often only use overhead and left swing. Is it an habit they had after playing with a steel pick?
Also... 2h should pown a shielder, providing they have the same skill. Since the 2h usually looks like a pincushion at some point.
I don't think hitslashing is affected by shields, but I honestly can't say for sure.
You can perfectly block down if you do it before you start the kick and then switch to whatever other direction you need.
I won't get in any argument about who can do what and would still like an answer to the question - is it even possible to implement new mechanics properly?
-
You forgot the point where you practically have autoblock of projectiles and melee hits from all sides and angles except to your direct sides and back.
You forgot the point that with 13 shield skill you will do very little damage, and a courser will bump-kill you in two hits.
-
Also... 2h should pown a shielder, providing they have the same skill.
Why?
2handers can defend themselves very easily against cavalry - 1handers cant.
2handers have a slightly advantage against polearmspammers, 1handers get their shield destroyed before they are even in range for their weapon, then get stunned, and then its all over baby.
Rangers can either run, or jump-shot with their crossbow, or run and swing with their 11 athletics, ah yes, and kick-slash.
Who the fuck is a shielder supposed to fight in crpg? Other shielders? Or new players with low-level chars, crap computers and horrible internet connections?
-
As a shielder, I always consider other shielders to be the priority targets. Shield weight makes me too slow to counter 2h hiltslash/kicks, most poles are shieldbreakers, archers just run, and I have no way to kill cavalry. 1h/shield doesn't have any 'tricks', so they are easiest to kill.
-
As a shielder, I always consider other shielders to be the priority targets. Shield weight makes me too slow to counter 2h hiltslash/kicks, most poles are shieldbreakers, archers just run, and I have no way to kill cavalry. 1h/shield doesn't have any 'tricks', so they are easiest to kill.
Stay away from agi 2h'ers...all the others are relatively EASY to kill as a shielder. You have to be the aggressor, put them on the defensive and make them fuck up
-
I'm all for new animations. Give it a slightly larger area of effect than a kick, the same recovery time, and only able to be used from a static position.
-
Stay away from agi 2h'ers...all the others are relatively EASY to kill as a shielder. You have to be the aggressor, put them on the defensive and make them fuck up
Yeah, str 2h in plate aren't usually a problem, but those ninja types that just hug your right shoulder are impossible. The only attack with a prayer of landing is a perfectly aimed overhead. That positioning negate both side swing options for me (left swing takes too long to get there, right swing just glances). Their higher mobility means I can't ever "shake" them from that location. It's like a an aerial dogfight, but the ninja is in a F22 and I'm in a B52.
-
How about you can only do it with shields with a weight of 7 or above. that way no one can just bash with any shield. your skill would have to be decently leveled and people wouldn't be carrying around practice shields just to bash. just a thought.
-
yes cmp pls.....you can do it bro,for the sake of cRPG do it
-
Why replace kick? Kick is fine, why wouldn't we have both kick and shield bash in game?
-
Except that a shielder can block much, much sooner after a knockdown while a 2h has to wait until they're on their feet. I'd say this is a fairly major advantage, especially for 1h shielder cavalry being dehorsed.
Erm, not true.
-
Except that a shielder can block much, much sooner after a knockdown while a 2h has to wait until they're on their feet. I'd say this is a fairly major advantage, especially for 1h shielder cavalry being dehorsed.
Incorrect. When I'm using a melee only weapon I can block quicker than if I have a shield when I'm getting up from being knocked down. With shield (at 100 speed) I'm holding block, but it doesn't block until I'm basically 100% standing. With a melee weapon I'm about 3/4's of the way standing and I'm able to block. Get learned noob.
Why replace kick? Kick is fine, why wouldn't we have both kick and shield bash in game?
Kick is terrible with a shield compared to kicking without a shield (you can block 3 directions except down, but with a shield you're wide open). They should replace shield kick with a shield "bash" (I'd like to see it more like Frank's suggestion where you push your weight behind it rather than swing the shield).
-
Kick is terrible with a shield compared to kicking without a shield (you can block 3 directions except down, but with a shield you're wide open). They should replace shield kick with a shield "bash" (I'd like to see it more like Frank's suggestion where you push your weight behind it rather than swing the shield).
That's what you get for being a god damned turtle, I would hate turtles to be able to kick/bash me with absolute 0 risks because they have autoblock on and then they can just slash my face.
-
It wouldn't be a 0 risk move. You can easily distance yourself away with your 5-8 less weight and 5-6 extra skill points. Blocking 1 person is also pretty easy, especially if you are a patient/defensive player. Heaven forbid shield actually gets an interesting/strategical gameplay mechanic for an otherwise useless action.
-
It wouldn't be a 0 risk move. You can easily distance yourself away with your 5-8 less weight and 5-6 extra skill points. Blocking 1 person is also pretty easy, especially if you are a patient/defensive player. Heaven forbid shield actually gets an interesting/strategical gameplay mechanic for an otherwise useless action.
But it is practically a 0 risk move, as a 2 hander, kicking is pretty much riskless unless the guy is already moving to your side and you stupidly kick away from him, now shielders would be able to do that and have omni-block at the same time.
-
Then we get a new animation glitch source, why not?
Most usefull answer right now. I'd like people to focus more on that aspect then who's better than who and what's fair and square. If it fucks up the game, I'm strongly against implementing anything of the kind. But - does it? Does it not? Do we have people who would know how to do it?
This is such an awesome game, I wouldn't want to quarrel about something impossible just for the sake of arguing.
-
Make shieldbash an unblockable blunt damage type attack that stuns/staggers the opponent with a knockdown chance and blunt damage based on the shield's weight.
Blunt damage shouldn't exceed 15 in my opinion tho.
It should be noticable but not lethal . Maybe 1-1 ratio on weight and damage would suit the best.
Buckler will deal 2 damage while steel shield deals 12.5.
-
Except that a shielder can block much, much sooner after a knockdown while a 2h has to wait until they're on their feet. I'd say this is a fairly major advantage, especially for 1h shielder cavalry being dehorsed.
Not true, I'v seen 2 handers on the floor and see their bodies bend 90° to block a hit. looks like their sitting on the ground and blocking. and why the hell would you balance a class over knockdown effects?
You forgot the point where you practically have autoblock of projectiles and melee hits from all sides and angles except to your direct sides and back.
do you people play a shielder? shield coverage is so bad that range even goes through the front of the shield ( arrows and throwing).
Correct me if i'm wrong, but a shielder holding his shield can't be hitlslashed.
Also, if shielders use some 1h swords, then they should just do thrust. I like to remind that you can't block down when kicking. Don't see why 2h vs 2h use thrust attacks so much when shielders often only use overhead and left swing. Is it an habit they had after playing with a steel pick?
Also... 2h should pown a shielder, providing they have the same skill. Since the 2h usually looks like a pincushion at some point.
if you hold a shield you dont get hiltslashed? i dont get it, when you hold a block well...you block a hiltslash :?
the 2h looks like a pincushion, but like Tot pointed it out very well, shielders are hardly a counter to range and 2h do far better vs cavs then shielders
so you have to thrust when you attack? 1h stab has to be spinned in order to work and still, in the last patch you cant spin it anymore. Often, a kicking 2h is backpeddaling so a straigthforward stab has to be done in order to reach him. But a straigth 1h stab is so fuck easy to chamber!
1H thrust is a real art!
In close range combat a shielder should really put in diffuclty a 2h, but this is not the case. With 2h dancing around the safest is the left attack because it doesnt let you be spammed, but if the 2h is smart and knows his footwork he's getting out of range of your let swing. Right hand is the reach option but this attack is so slow and glances quite a bit that you can get spammed quite easily.
And this is way ill join with someone else comment that a normal shielder should avoid agi 2h.
Then people wonder why 1h left spam :rolleyes:
2Hand sword have the range, 1h don't. One class cant have all the advantages, close and and long range fighting. 1h should prevail in close range and it should be 2h that glance like bitches in close range
1h is the class that available to all, but to be a master takes serious work