cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Vexus on June 21, 2012, 11:17:48 am

Title: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Vexus on June 21, 2012, 11:17:48 am
I'm 800k from 31 and I need to know exactly what plan on stats to have for the next one.

I tried this on a STF:

Strength:24
Agility:18

Two Handed:10
Archery:154

Power Draw:8
Athletics:3
Weapon Master:6

But I guess it's kinda slow? (Didn't find it that slow with a horn bow personally but I'd prefer real archers opinions on damage builds)

Someone suggested me to go 18/24 but I don't really like it, maybe 21/21 with 7 PD, 7 WM and 3 ATH?

So what is your opinion for a damage build for archery? I will probably use my MW langes as melee weapon on the archer as it's 1 slot and maybe when I get high in wpf use skutatos armour which has 9.6 weight with lighter stuff on the other parts.

I got a MW Horn Bow ready and MW Bodkins if that can help on what is the ideal build.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Miwiw on June 21, 2012, 01:14:18 pm
24/18 and 21/21 sound interesting if you do not need any PS/IF or melee wpf. Otherwise I would really recommend my old Archer build:

(click to show/hide)

Good amount of HP, together with medium gear such as Tribal Warrior Outfit, Mail Gauntlets and Rus Cavalry Boots (Helmet not needed, you can take a low weight one for the looks, a heavier if your used to lower wpf) you can take a good amount of hits and probably dont even die in 2 hits by a fully loomed 2h guy. With 85 1h wpf you are good enough to react to attacks (of course you can also take 2h wpf, for mace/langes messer, like you wish).
6 PD gives medium damage but with a loomed bow you'll do enough after all. 143 archery wpf is probably too low for a non-loomed bow but I often had nice shots with my +1 rus bow I had. With bodkin arrows I also did some dmg to tincans. I loved it.

However if you prefer a dedicated Archer build, you can freely take more PD or WM, leaving out PS/IF and a bit of ATH. For real damage the 24/18 build is the best, of course your aim suffers by 8 PD and 6 WM only.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Adamar on June 21, 2012, 02:50:58 pm
18 21 or 21 21 hornbow
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Vexus on June 21, 2012, 10:33:21 pm
6 PD is too low for what I want.

I want to mainly be an archer dealing heavy damage but will use a side arm incase I get a cav or whatever near me.

Keep then coming people, the more suggestions specially from known archers the better.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 22, 2012, 11:51:23 am
6 PD is too low for what I want.

I want to mainly be an archer dealing heavy damage but will use a side arm incase I get a cav or whatever near me.

Keep then coming people, the more suggestions specially from known archers the better.
honestly 6 PD is Plenty. I have an 18/24 archer right now and would never get more PD. I'd stack more agility if I kept leveling it.
24/18 is fine by all means, go it if you like. 21/21 is also good.

18/21 is good, like 18/24 but full ath and some PS for your side arm. I'd go 18/21 or 21/18 if I were you waning to melee when shit goes wrong. My two cents!
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Bulzur on June 22, 2012, 06:17:26 pm
18/21.
6 PD and 5 PS is enough, and you can have 75 wpf in your melee weapon.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Vexus on June 23, 2012, 12:00:11 am
I have to say I tried the 24/18 build on DTV and that might be different to base an opinion on as the bots have high hp but even peasants needed 2 shots to die and the further round say weaboos took way too many arrows in the body to die.

I'm not expecting to kill in 2 arrows but weaboos armour is very light (The light black version) and needed more than 5 arrows to die with a non loomed yumi (Or rus bow not sure exactly) and bodkins and while I may use a melee weapon I don't want to get the maximum possible power on archery while still having high wm.

Melee with 0 wpf and 0 ps is still possible if you have a high damaging weapon. (Even if it's a lot harder)
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Strider on June 23, 2012, 04:44:18 am
you may wanna consider 15/24. The athletics and extra wpf helps alot.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Beat on June 24, 2012, 01:03:45 am
I would go 21/18 so you can actually run when needed.  You can swap the PS for IF if you want but 8 HP in light armor doesn't really do much.  Speaking of armor, skutatos is way too heavy.  It will ruin your WPF.  You can also change the WPF to 60 2H and 150 archery, not that it really matters though.

 Strength: 21
    Agility: 18

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Power Strike: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Power Draw: 7
    Weapon Master: 6

    Two Handed: 50
    Archery: 152
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 24, 2012, 01:49:50 am
I'm 800k from 31 and I need to know exactly what plan on stats to have for the next one.

I tried this on a STF:

Strength:24
Agility:18

Two Handed:10
Archery:154

Power Draw:8
Athletics:3
Weapon Master:6

But I guess it's kinda slow? (Didn't find it that slow with a horn bow personally but I'd prefer real archers opinions on damage builds)

Someone suggested me to go 18/24 but I don't really like it, maybe 21/21 with 7 PD, 7 WM and 3 ATH?

So what is your opinion for a damage build for archery? I will probably use my MW langes as melee weapon on the archer as it's 1 slot and maybe when I get high in wpf use skutatos armour which has 9.6 weight with lighter stuff on the other parts.

I got a MW Horn Bow ready and MW Bodkins if that can help on what is the ideal build.

Invert that build.

All the top archer dogs have high agility and plenty of wpf to keep those shots tight.

18-24 run bow with bodkins. Seems to be the go.

Oh yeah, and a lot more agi

6PD
8ATH
8MW

There be an archer!
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 24, 2012, 01:53:26 am
Invert that build.

All the top archer dogs have high agility and plenty of wpf to keep those shots tight.

18-24 run bow with bodkins. Seems to be the go.

Oh yeah, and a lot more agi

6PD
8ATH
8MW

There be an archer!
18/24 is the best
@30: 6 PD 8 WM 3 ath, @31: 6 Ath, @ 32: 8 ath 1 PS.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Smoothrich on June 24, 2012, 01:57:56 am
Invert that build.

All the top archer dogs have high agility and plenty of wpf to keep those shots tight.

18-24 run bow with bodkins. Seems to be the go.

Oh yeah, and a lot more agi

6PD
8ATH
8MW

There be an archer!

Fyi this build isn't possible until like level 32, "pure builds" at 30 that only use 3 stats can max out 2 of them and have 3 in the other.  Pure cav builds are often all riding, powerstrike, and 3 left over for shield.  A pure archer build would only have 3 athletics.  18/24, 21/21, or 24/18 are the 3 viable level 30 "pure builds." 

I would usually go 21/21, but with masterwork bow and arrows I doubt you'd ever need more than 6 PD, and would prob recommend 18/21 anyways.  However with your light archer armor, even with low athletics you will still out run 90 percent of melee people in the game so whatever.  Also Rus Bow users are gimped for melee, so honestly athletics and powerstrike don't matter much.

Get to 18/18 with 3 athletics maybe and see if you can deal with that, then start pumping up PD or WM depending on what you like, or filling out your stats instead.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: callahan9119 on June 24, 2012, 02:12:24 am
Is it worth even playin an archer with no looms? I have an alt but I can't decide what to make him. It's between a 15/24 polearm guy or an archer. My main is already infantry, so I wonder if the spear will feel redundant....but if archer is useless without looms I won't bother.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 24, 2012, 02:13:46 am
More PD hardly adds more damage, just makes you fire slower and more inaccurately it seems. you do gain a bit in missile speed... but not worth it.
I have my 18/24 archer which wrecks face.  fuck.
I have my STF to test other builds currently as a 27/15 (9 PD 5 wm 3 ath archer) and it is night and day. Takes just as many shots to kill people (negligibly more damage), super inaccurate in comparison, can't hold shots, takes longer to draw back, fires slower with a bit of delay upon releasing making you miss even more than the inaccuracy.
NOTE: I still killed people as 27/15 because archery is ridiculous. Just Way less than 18/24. ( I say that, but my 27/15 stf has a 7:1 kdr with it when i played two maps)

with that said, I imagine 21/21 is fine and good. But tbh 18/24 is terrifyingly good. Top of charts good.
(click to show/hide)

Is it worth even playin an archer with no looms? I have an alt but I can't decide what to make him. It's between a 15/24 polearm guy or an archer. My main is already infantry, so I wonder if the spear will feel redundant....but if archer is useless without looms I won't bother.
Yes. a levle 30 archer with no looms is still good. With +3 bow it becomes GREAT with +3 bodkins as well it become AMAZING
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Smoothrich on June 24, 2012, 02:17:15 am

Yes. a levle 30 archer with no looms is still good. With +3 bow it becomes GREAT overpowered with +3 bodkins as well it become AMAZING lol broken

And yeah I tried a 27/12 troll longbow build once and it was god awful, a bunch of us in LLJK did it (while being bad archers) and we were all pretty awful, but it seemed to 2 shot people pretty easily.  Papifarikiki was actually topping scoreboards with that build, but he's played a dedicated arbalester for nearly a year so he was able to land shots with disturbing ease even with the gimped build.

I had a STF at 21/21 Rus bow with no looms and I played it for about 3 hours before I went broke due to no gold transfer and finding archery kind of boring, but the accuracy and missile speed was pretty much oustanding, felt more like being a crossbower, but I haven't tried really high WPF builds.

Don't be so quick Marathon to write off PD leaning archery builds either.  I can't speak much from experience, but two of the best archers that played on NA, Kesh and sWalker (rip star wars nerds, though I've seen kesh lately) used level 33 27/18 builds (if I recall), even sWalker using a kind of gimped Long Bow, and were always chart toppers.  In Strat 2.0, before looms in Strat, those guys would put up KDs that would rival or surpass me and Huey as lancer cav in all the fun as hell FCC strat battles (we all averaged 4-7.0 KDs a battle lol, unicorns + cavalieres and FCC light infantry led by Matey tore apart strength build clans like Chaos and Hospitallers)  Goretooth used this build or a similar one when he went back to archery for a month or two a while back at a high level, and I'd see him with 20+ kills a map easily, accurate as shit with ridiculous missile speed.

I think looms help a lot more with accuracy when it comes to high PD builds though, when less looms would probably be better with more WM.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: callahan9119 on June 24, 2012, 02:23:33 am
Is it like HA though where it's pretty useless till the very end?

Thanks for replies, sorry to hijack thread, but I didn't want to start a new one.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 24, 2012, 02:35:18 am
I'll hop on my 27/15 archer. I have a MW rus bow and MW bodkins. and with heirloom transferring, ahaha.
I said it is still alright, just not on 18/24+ Archery GOOD.

edit: I still stand by this.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Smoothrich on June 24, 2012, 07:13:16 am
I'll hop on my 27/15 archer. I have a MW rus bow and MW bodkins. and with heirloom transferring, ahaha.
I said it is still alright, just not on 18/24+ Archery GOOD.

edit: I still stand by this.

Ya, 5 WM is definitely not enough for a rus or long bow, though it can be effective with a Horn Bow if you are shooting at close range.  I did a 21/15 melee/archer hybrid like that, and just stayed as close to people as possible spamming horn bow arrows and willingly went into melee when I felt like it, was pretty fun and more interesting than typical xbow hybrid for sure. 
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Beat on June 24, 2012, 08:05:06 am
I hear people singing the praises of 18/24, the difference between 6 WM and 8 WM amounts to about 17 archery WPF.  I find it hard to believe that most people could even tell a difference.  Why not go 21/18 and get an additional 14% damage?  You get more skill points to play with, more damage, slightly more HP (hardly worth mentioning) and you lose what, a negligible amount of accuracy and hold time?  I can see it if you want to absolutely max your accuracy but you can adapt to a shorter hold time pretty easily.

I guess I should make some STF characters and try their builds out myself.

Seems like most of these are melee guys who don't want to be on the receiving end of your 7 or 8 PD and want to catch your 3 athletics molasses moving ass.  :P
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Vexus on June 24, 2012, 11:29:10 am
Hmm currently I was more leaning for 21/21 with 155 wpf in archery and 50 in 2h (Or 160 in archery and around 29 in 2h) but I do get your points.

Character still low level with 12/11 (Raising 3 per time) so I can still adapt to something else.

Ps. At first I was going for a +3 Rus bow but while the extra damage is useful, it's 2 slot and slow with a 24/18 build but when I used a horn or tatar bow I was shooting decently fast so now I have a +3 horn bow and the extra 1 PD could help me I guess.

Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: PanPan on June 24, 2012, 11:46:38 am

Character still low level with 12/11 (Raising 3 per time) so I can still adapt to something else.


I guess u gonna use one of those 6 req. Bows? U'll get it quite late. If I were you I would skill till 12 Agi rest in str till u get 18. I always go 9 agi rest str so I can use my Long bow on lvl 18-19.

Ohh u got a Horn Bow then just go for 15 str but ahh nvm :D
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Vexus on June 24, 2012, 11:48:44 am
Yeah but every 1 PD you pump the bow gets slower but if you even it up with 1 wm it goes back to normal :P
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 24, 2012, 11:09:39 pm
I hear people singing the praises of 18/24, the difference between 6 WM and 8 WM amounts to about 17 archery WPF.  I find it hard to believe that most people could even tell a difference.  Why not go 21/18 and get an additional 14% damage?  You get more skill points to play with, more damage, slightly more HP (hardly worth mentioning) and you lose what, a negligible amount of accuracy and hold time?  I can see it if you want to absolutely max your accuracy but you can adapt to a shorter hold time pretty easily.

I guess I should make some STF characters and try their builds out myself.

Seems like most of these are melee guys who don't want to be on the receiving end of your 7 or 8 PD and want to catch your 3 athletics molasses moving ass.  :P
the accuracy difference is Huge. I thought that way by looking at the numbers first myself. I was wrong.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Templar_Steevee on July 05, 2012, 02:04:00 pm
imo you should get
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 53

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 4
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 6
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

    Archery: 165
If u are good in melee u can kill ppl with a hand axe or pickaxe and u don't need to put points in melee weapons.
I used this bulit and it was really funny to kill ppl with my hand axe.
3 ath is not enought because you are to slow to follow your team, and it's really hard to dodge cav with low ath.
Almost all archers who are currently topping scoreboard are high lvls, but they are not killable :)
Currently the best bow is rus bow (it's actually op compare to other bows from 5 pd up) and he is using by archers like Bagge, Tibour, Robinhood and other good archers. But most stylish bow is imo Long bow - slowest and less accurate one but deadly  (I'm using it and it's really nice if you don;'t care too much about k-d)
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cumface on July 05, 2012, 02:36:20 pm
I hear people singing the praises of 18/24, the difference between 6 WM and 8 WM amounts to about 17 archery WPF.  I find it hard to believe that most people could even tell a difference.  Why not go 21/18 and get an additional 14% damage?  You get more skill points to play with, more damage, slightly more HP (hardly worth mentioning) and you lose what, a negligible amount of accuracy and hold time?  I can see it if you want to absolutely max your accuracy but you can adapt to a shorter hold time pretty easily.

I guess I should make some STF characters and try their builds out myself.

Seems like most of these are melee guys who don't want to be on the receiving end of your 7 or 8 PD and want to catch your 3 athletics molasses moving ass.  :P
Well, it's not exactly the WPF that makes the difference, it's the PD. Every point in PD improves the missile speed, and missile speed has huge impact on accuracy. Also the speed penalty of PD is pretty major. 18/21 is the best build for archer at level 30. It's not even something to argue about, it's a fact.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Smoothrich on July 05, 2012, 02:42:44 pm
Also the speed penalty of PD is pretty major. 18/21 is the best build for archer at level 30. It's not even something to argue about, it's a fact.

Prove to me, cRPG forum user "Cumface," that the 18/21 archer build is quantifiably the better build than 21/21 with 7 WM, 7 PD, and 3 Athletics or 18/24 with 8 WM 6 PD and 3 Athletics.  Your claim of indubitability I find curious.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cumface on July 05, 2012, 02:45:49 pm
Prove to me, cRPG forum user "Cumface," that the 18/21 archer build is quantifiably the better build than 21/21 with 7 WM, 7 PD, and 3 Athletics or 18/24 with 8 WM 6 PD and 3 Athletics.  Your claim of indubitability I find curious.
Test it yourself if you don't believe. If you still don't believe after testing, you are retard.

7WM & 7PD = A lot more inaccurate than 7WM & 6PD. The difference is huge, also 7WM & 7PD still gives you speed penalty. The damage difference is not even noticeable, you still mostly need as many arrows as you needed with 6PD to kill someone. 3 atheltics just sucks, you have to be able to run away from anyone, and still have time to stop and shoot them. With 7 athletics you can run away from pretty much anyone, and yet have time to turn around and headshot them like a boss. You can kill as many people like this as you have arrows, shielders are harder to kill that way though.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: oprah_winfrey on July 05, 2012, 03:14:45 pm
Test it yourself if you don't believe. If you still don't believe after testing, you are retard.

7WM & 7PD = A lot more inaccurate than 7WM & 6PD. The difference is huge, also 7WM & 7PD still gives you speed penalty. The damage difference is not even noticeable, you still mostly need as many arrows as you needed with 6PD to kill someone. 3 atheltics just sucks, you have to be able to run away from anyone, and still have time to stop and shoot them. With 7 athletics you can run away from pretty much anyone, and yet have time to turn around and headshot them like a boss. You can kill as many people like this as you have arrows, shielders are harder to kill that way though.

Yeah, if you aren't kiting everyone as an archer you are doing it wrong  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: justjr on July 05, 2012, 03:19:37 pm
I played almost 10 generations as an archer (former Justus_Caesar_of_Chaos), and tested some builds, really sticked with that 2:
21/18
Strength:21
Agility:18

One Handed:10
Archery:154

Weapon Master:6
Athletics:6
Power Strike:4 (or IF, I prefer PS)
Power Draw:7

18/21 (the best)
Strength:18
Agility:21

One Handed:50 (or 39)
Archery:159 (or 160)

Weapon Master:7
Athletics:7
Power Strike:3 (or IF, I prefer PS)
Power Draw:6

After more then 500 hours of archery I must say, agi is better, but 6 PD is essencial too (not really need much more, u decrease too much status for it) , so 18/21!

I used Rus Bow 90% of that time, and Tatar 50%, Bodkins 50% (all MW).
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Cumface on July 05, 2012, 03:39:35 pm
Yeah, if you aren't kiting everyone as an archer you are doing it wrong  :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
We were talking about best build. With 3 athletic build, you are last man standing.. There's 3 enemy 2h's left.. The chances are you won't kill them all before they reach you = you die. With 7 athletic build, you shoot and run, and end up killing them all (unless you really suck). So yeah, it's best build.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: bigsean on July 05, 2012, 06:43:53 pm
Prove to me, cRPG forum user "Cumface," that the 18/21 archer build is quantifiably the better build than 21/21 with 7 WM, 7 PD, and 3 Athletics or 18/24 with 8 WM 6 PD and 3 Athletics.  Your claim of indubitability I find curious.

Add the longbow and you have right here the worst semi-serious archer build ever.

Stick to cav, this isn't your strength.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Bulzur on July 05, 2012, 08:43:48 pm
3 athletics is horribly low.
You'll constantly fear being left alone by your teammates, bullied by cav, and can't escape any shield ninja.

You deal damage, yes, and are pretty accurate, yes. But you're bound to die.
Title: Re: Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build
Post by: Tzar on July 05, 2012, 08:44:31 pm
Soon to retire I need the most feedback possible to an archery build

Go kill yourself...