cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Christo on June 18, 2012, 04:46:25 am
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Thread title, enough said.
inb4 2handed elitists equip the flamethrower.
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And so, it begins..
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Sounds fine to me, being a 2h.
I think it should be kept the same for some of the shorter 2h, though, like the Bastard Sword, Longsword, Two Handed Sword, etc. Should only apply to the greatswords.
EDIT: After a bit of talking with another player and some thinking, I don't think this is the best course of action for bringing 2h weapons to good balance.
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Fuck no.
Do you really want them to be basically the same?
On the other hand it doesn't really matter I guess since stabs are completely borked now.
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Yeah, great suggestion. And how would 2h and polearms be different then?
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Yeah, great suggestion. And how would 2h and polearms be different then?
left swing and no shield breaking capabilities :P
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Why would it make them the same?
Admit it, the +50-60 or whatever range on a sword stab is ridiculous.
Not simply it makes medium-length support polearms obsolete, it screws with lancing, as well.
Not that lancers need to be taken into account for now, but the "pikesword" ability is just plain retarded.
Besides, it would lead to a stab damage buff, because of the better grip on the sword, therefore you've got more force, and easier times to hit weakpoints of armor.
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LoL.
2h stab works. It works way better then many will admit.
Took like 2 hours to adapt to it.
Polearm stab does even more damage...and works in the same way.
Guess having 30 +pierce on the awesome polarms is the price for having lower range, no? (plus having better/ easily equal cut damage then any stabbing 2h)
Dont like this suggestion at all.
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:rolleyes:
This suggestion is most fucking bias shit on this forum for a long time.
Most people play 2h, because of stab animation is different, more smooth, feints are better.
Not because of lenght of it.
I would not care if stab animation was about 10-20 shorter and I thought for most 2h its the same.
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:rolleyes:
This suggestion is most fucking bias shit on this forum for a long time.
Hardly.
2hander defensive lobbyism is worse. This isn't lobbysm, It's a buff for twohanders.
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This isn't lobbysm, It's a buff for twohanders.
Hardly.
We all know the 2hers rely on and love their super-360-spinning-never-ending-animation-hardly-ever-glances-high-damage stab. If anything this is a nerf. A very much needed nerf.
EDIT:... But not the best kind of nerf.
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Yeah, but in the end, it would lead to a stab damage buff all across the board, that's what I meant, it's rational.
It's just silly that the greatswords can stab in such a great range. Why bring support weapons into melee (not anticav roles), if you got a weapon that can stab 170's?
I know that most elite 2handers will defend it until their last drop of everything, but please, see some reason.
This stab, and the broken hit detection (sword kills you from behind with full damage, happens with other weapons too) is up there with polestagger, in terms on cheapness.
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Flamberge already uses polearm stab animation. Sux.
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Why would it make them the same?
Admit it, the +50-60 or whatever range on a sword stab is ridiculous.
Not simply it makes medium-length support polearms obsolete, it screws with lancing, as well.
Not that lancers need to be taken into account for now, but the "pikesword" ability is just plain retarded.
Besides, it would lead to a stab damage buff, because of the better grip on the sword, therefore you've got more force, and easier times to hit weakpoints of armor.
It's 80 length that's added to 2h stab animation. 1h I believe is like 60...too lazy to pull up thestats.
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As a flam user i can only agree that 2hs take pole thrust, meaning flams get an indirect buff! (plus more pierce on flam too??)
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Not simply it makes medium-length support polearms obsolete, it screws with lancing, as well.
Oh boy, won't somebody think about the poor heavy lance cav? The game is clearly designed to give cav lancers the worst experience possible. Better nerf the shit out of any melee builds that can reliably take out horses, cuz there aren't enough on the battle servers! Let's remove the leg damage bonus to horses too, poor guys getting 360 danish lolstabbed, someone give them a chance
if 2handers got the polearm thrust, i would probably uninstall this game entirely. one of the very, very few animations that just feel good to use, most of the time. polearm thrust is more OP anyways, it doesn't have the reach but its an instant attack and most polearms do 5-10 more pierce damage than even the highest damaging swords, so fuck off
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Oh boy, won't somebody think about the poor heavy lance cav? The game is clearly designed to give cav lancers the worst experience possible. Better nerf the shit out of any melee builds that can reliably take out horses, cuz there aren't enough on the battle servers! Let's remove the leg damage bonus to horses too, poor guys getting 360 danish lolstabbed, someone give them a chance
Reading comprehension problems mate.
Not that lancers need to be taken into account for now
Read carefully before you minus down posts, ignorant American.
You fuck off.
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Read carefully before you minus down posts, ignorant American.
Can't even maintain a conversation about balance without resorting to the typical attitudes of this community. Post reported to forum administration for prejudice and extreme nationalism, enjoy your forum mute, jingoist
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Can't even maintain a conversation about balance without resorting to the typical attitudes of this community. Post reported to forum administration for prejudice and extreme nationalism, enjoy your forum mute, jingoist
What for? You insulted me at the first place.
And there we go, more insults.
Pathetic.
If there is someone who has problems with extreme nationalism at home, it's you.
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fuck both of you
remove range
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At fifteen, I had the will to learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ; at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the square.
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Instead make half swording use 2h wpf and replace only stabbing animation to polearm with decent increase to dmg. Would make a nice trade off to the range of 2h stab. Nothing would be lost by replacing the current half swording, it's crap.
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Flamburger animations look badass. Some dude walks in swinging a weapon like that, you know it going to hurt. Switch all the biggin 2h to be as badass. Right now they all have primma donna animations, bunch of Nancys on ice.
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I've decided to change my stance on this. Even though I consider 2h greatswords overpowered and the polearm stab for them would be more realistic I don't think this is the best decision considering game balance and variety.
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Instead make half swording use 2h wpf and replace only stabbing animation to polearm with decent increase to dmg. Would make a nice trade off to the range of 2h stab. Nothing would be lost by replacing the current half swording, it's crap.
This. The current secondary mode of 2h swords is absurd.
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At fifteen, I had the will to learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ; at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the square.
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haha christo , pls bring me proof that 2hers have more success on battlefield than crazy polearm spammers with their imba range,damage,speed, stagger and 1hit propability or leave poor 2hers alone :mrgreen:
because i believe that on the field 2hers and polearmers are about the same .... no cover from ranged , about same dueling/ganking/melee capabilities (only some polearms are just a bit to OP vs 2h in duel)
just accept that there is some people better fighters than you .. like i have to and everyone else does ;P
peace man xD
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the solution to balance in melee is to nerf ranged
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Buff ranged and eliminate 2h / polearm / cav whines as everyone goes shielder and twohanders and polearms become something which was once used in crpg but nobody remembers anymore.
There, melee balance is fully restored.
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Current 2H stab is weird, and with the new turning speed nerf, extremely hard to use in most situations. Polestab on 2H is extremely nice once you get used to it. The short range means you can facehug and stab right through your target without needing to turn. It's a fantastic surprise move, and is very hard to block. Giving all 2H this ability would, if anything, be a buff.
2H stab could use some work to make it easier to use, but without quite the range it has. However, a new animation would be needed for this, not polestab.
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2hand stab isn't hard to use (or counter), and I don't think its TOO bad with the turning nerf. Its the best range control/sudden surprise attack you have against someone who is right in front of you. It is also ideal for harassing cavalry away from you or getting killing blows on the horse or rider. When closer up and surrounded by teammates, the stab was and still is pretty useless on most 2 handers because it will always glance without the room (and now the capability) to lolstab it in. I could still lol it around teammate's shoulders though at a backpedaler and get hits in, its harder to do this but not impossible with good aim.
With the turning radius nerf, any valid problems people had with the animation pretty much have to cease now, or else I can just consider them bad at the game. Any thrust attack can be juked, set up for 2 different chamber directions, or simply downblocked. I do not want to see 2handers get a polearm animation, as that is removing diversity from the mod, and the weapon class has that capability already in halfswording (which should use 2hand wpf god damn) and should be left at that.
What was great was the 2hand (or long 1hander/polearm) overhead filled the role of a close distance, non teamwounding groupfight attack perfectly. With skill and patience to adapt you can certainly land overheads on any weapon type when in a duel, but landing dem overheads on the silly fast zerging dude who gets sucked into a pocket of teammates or anything above a 2 vs 2 or something is a lot more difficult and what used to be skilled, fast paced effective teamwork/synergy thing is more of a bumbling clusterfuck of teamwounding half the time : \
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Good one Christo
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2h stab is a retarded animation realistically. Having a polearm stab would make a little more sense. Even better would be a new stabbing animation for 2h. Grab a long piece of wood, grab it with two hands at the end and try to stab. Figure out the way that works best and animate that, voila! I'm pretty sure the way it is ingame feels awkward.
I'm sure someone on the dev team can make animations right? Some animation work would go a long way to get that realistic combat experience they seem to be going for.
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As teeth said.
Actual animation got a way too long reach, and don't even bounce at close range since you can slightly spin.
But making 2h use the polearm stab animation (like the langes messer and the flamberger already) will be a bad idea. It would slow everything, and make stabs useless.
Slightly reducing the reach of the actual animation by 15 seems enough for a deserved nerf.
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sry for my english.
Giving 2h sword polearm stab animation is not good idea, then what's different between 2h and polearm ? name or shape ?
it will decrease the variety of this game.
i think the advantage of 2h sword are the flowing quickly side swing and the confusing feints.
so i suggest
1. cancel the turn body speed limit----it's not a wise setting ,and make CRPG fighting so dumb!!
2.decrase 2h stab range(about 10~15)-----making 2 hand sword as long spear is stupid.
3.increase 2h stab speed----- increase the ability of 2 hand sword feints.
polearms having break shield and stoping horse is suitable for battlefield , and 2h swords is suitable for duel , at least we all think so.
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I love how everyone completely missed the point of Smoothrich's post on page 2. Bravo guys, Bravo!
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Bump
When you're not 2H, all the time you have to deal with 2H stab.
Just replace the animation and let the whine start.
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Yeah lets make everything the same on 2h and polearms. Oh yeah but leave the bonus to shield on the poles.
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Some 2H weapons already have pole thrust animation but they aren't the same as polearms, that argument doesn't make sense.
Even flamberge isn't the same as polearms, and flamberge has 3 pole animations.
Greatswords are the main reason why every other 2H weapon isn't popular.
2H =/= greatswords
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As a former greatsword spammer, I approve of this suggestion.
Change the animations for thrust on the greatswords to pole anim and leave it for the shorter 2H's. Also, +1 to Largg's suggestion.
I love how everyone completely missed the point of Smoothrich's post on page 2. Bravo guys, Bravo!
You mean the moaning, bitching and crying and then some flaming? Yeah, very sublime.
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There is a fuckload of greatswords anyway , make em rage , i support this
lal bjurd ^
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make it only for + 120 lenght GS
or make alt mode with that stab
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make it only for + 120 lenght GS
or make alt mode with that stab
That would be a huge buff to the highland claymore.