cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: gazda on June 13, 2012, 08:56:37 am
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Nerf 2h!!!
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It is far to easy.
Of course everything is fairly simple when you have the power of the PK tags.
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With the spin rate limit, the only remaining issue specific to 2h is that the swings are active WAY too early in the animation. You can release a side swing, turn into it, make contact while the weapon is still behind your shoulder, and hit for full damage (the so-called Castor swing, hiltslash, whatever). Compare that to 1h right swing, which will glance if your target is only 30 degrees to the right of directly in front of you.
No weapon should hit for significant damage unless your target is in your forward 90 deg arc, IMHO.
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Nah. We had enough nerfs. It's time for buffs.
First thing, buff polearm damage a lot. By at least 5 damage points on average.
Before, smart polearm users dealt 150% damage (100% for hit and 50% for another hit).
They deserve that buff.
One handers should be buffed in a different way. First, their damage should be buffed by few points (not more than 2) but only for swords and only those with thrust attack. One handed maces are maybe even too good, picks are excellent, axes are good and swords without thrust are pretty good as well.
Second buff will be general buff to melee but one handers would profit most of it. It's something I'm lobbying for a long time, buff to head hits (double damage).
That way twohanders will keep their hiltslash, superior animation (mostly feints), long thrust and decent damage. Also, those who aim for head will be buffed too and I think they deserve that buff, unlike hiltslash lamers.
Polearms would deal shit ton of damage and one handers will deal great damage too but mainly on left swing/overhead which will make them predictable as well.
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Nah. We had enough nerfs. It's time for buffs.
First thing, buff polearm damage a lot. By at least 5 damage points on average.
Before, smart polearm users dealt 150% damage (100% for hit and 50% for another hit).
They deserve that buff.
One handers should be buffed in a different way. First, their damage should be buffed by few points (not more than 2) but only for swords and only those with thrust attack. One handed maces are maybe even too good, picks are excellent, axes are good and swords without thrust are pretty good as well.
Second buff will be general buff to melee but one handers would profit most of it. It's something I'm lobbying for a long time, buff to head hits (double damage).
That way twohanders will keep their hiltslash, superior animation (mostly feints), long thrust and decent damage. Also, those who aim for head will be buffed too and I think they deserve that buff, unlike hiltslash lamers.
Polearms would deal shit ton of damage and one handers will deal great damage too but mainly on left swing/overhead which will make them predictable as well.
Some good points there, although I think polearm needs 100% chance for the old polestagger on thrusts only, to revive their support role. Weapons like the Great Long Axe don't need 5 more damage, they already 1-shot people with 50 armor frequently (I used a +3 Long Bardiche with 11 PS for three gens, and I remember being shocked if anyone wearing below a Light Kuyak survived a hit).
I'm OK with the 2H hiltslash, but it shouldn't do full dmg, it should hit like a 1h sword.
The stabby 1h swords are already pretty deadly, ManOfWar went like 52-4 with an italian the other night. I don't know why anyone would give up 1h thrust attack for like 1 more slash dmg or 2 more speed with a scimitar/etc. I would like to see the 1h thrust hitbox be re-tuned to actually make sense, and for the right swing to not be so slow and glance-prone. Left and overhead are fine.
Buff headhit damage too much, and everyone will just go helmet-less (why wear a 7k helmet if you still get one-hit on headhits).
Once they toned down hiltslash, they could up the combat speed, and everything would be pretty perfect.
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As long as 2h doesnt get buffed, it's fine anyway.
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I agree with leshma, the game should be ballanced buff wise.
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Go to duel server and watch 2 pro longsword users duel. The only hits that land are hiltslashes/spinthrusts/dragged overheads/etc. None of these tactics resemble any kind of realistic swordfighting maneuver, and are just loopholes of the M&B engine that people abuse to get kills. Lets close the loopholes, speed up combat, and make it about footwork/feinting/holds/etc.
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1h cut weapons are too weak and they should be buffed. The right swing of 1h should also either be faster or don't happen to glance so much against guys to your right. I think the 1h stab is already getting fixed so I will leave it to the devs for what they think they should do about it. Pretty much agreeing with Phew then outside of the polestagger return.
I don't have much of a problem with hiltslashing, since I do something kind of similar with 1h.
Increasing damage against the head may be too strong of a buff for 1h, although a tiny increase like 10% or 15% more couldn't hurt.
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I don't have much of a problem with hiltslashing, since I do something kind of similar with 1h.
You're right, 1h left swing is fully active from the start, so you can smack people in the skull while they are behind your left shoulder. I've never done this deliberately, which is probably why I'm not very good. I'd gladly trade this "feature" for a faster right swing that's less prone to glancing. Against anyone that's actually aware of you, trying to execute a 1h right swing is suicide.
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1H have it's advantages against greatswords and other 2H weapons, but polearms now have none. That's why I'm asking for damage buff.
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1H have it's advantages against greatswords and other 2H weapons, but polearms now have none. That's why I'm asking for damage buff.
Yes, because the ability to stop cav and having a balanced long shield breaker with the same speed as 2 handers is totally a disadvantage for polearms, really.
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Polearm is fine, just buff combat speed.
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1H have it's advantages against greatswords and other 2H weapons, but polearms now have none. That's why I'm asking for damage buff.
please say more, this interests me highly
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i think he was reffering to 1hers superior range over 2hers, and abilty to have ghostreach and hiltslash, while 2hers dont, or maybe he was thinging about how 1hers have way higher damage then 2hers
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It is far to easy.
Of course everything is fairly simple when you have the power of the PK tags.
Dafuq is pk?
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1h have speed. Yes, it's kinda hard to avoid kicks and hiltslashing while trying to facehug but you still have advantage at close range if you play it out right. Also you can feint and hold attacks until twohander decide to attack and then hit him hard.
Polearms are slower, have two and a half functional attack directions (thrust is crap atm and left swing isn't much better). Feinting with them is shit, it's hard to hide attack.
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Use +3 hafted blade and make an agi build for lvl 36 you will rock the rest will suck
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1h have speed. Yes, it's kinda hard to avoid kicks and hiltslashing while trying to facehug but you still have advantage at close range if you play it out right. Also you can feint and hold attacks until twohander decide to attack and then hit him hard.
you obviously never played 1h
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Yes, I was. On my alt. A month ago or so. Killed you plenty of times :P
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Yes, because the ability to stop cav and having a balanced long shield breaker with the same speed as 2 handers is totally a disadvantage for polearms, really.
sure we stop cav but 2hers just blatantly out range them, so that leaves us with shields.......oh wait it takes a good 5-6 hits with 6ps and a fully loomed poleaxe to break an average shield, and here I was thinking polearms were poor now we don't have stun :rolleyes:
I went on duel yesterday (rare thing now days) and after about 4 duels I was one about 2-5 not because I suck, I managed to hit all my enemies but once I hit them.....its like I didn't even hit them at all, just as i finished my swing they swung back instantly and the 2hers now stun me more then my poleaxe does them...I mean come on wtf that makes no sense.
Now that we have no stun polearm will be harder to play, Im not saying the stun wasn't OP and it could of done with a nerf but taking it out completely? great now you have taken the one true advantage we have over 2hers :mad:
as for what leshma said, I think his right. Nerfing weapons to try and balance them doesn't seem to be working as we have seen from the past (remember the throwing nerf?) and IMO taking away the polestun completely is just crazy I might as well respec to 2her or 1her now seeing as they are now the better choice :?
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Some good points there, although I think polearm needs 100% chance for the old polestagger on thrusts only, to revive their support role. Weapons like the Great Long Axe don't need 5 more damage, they already 1-shot people with 50 armor frequently (I used a +3 Long Bardiche with 11 PS for three gens, and I remember being shocked if anyone wearing below a Light Kuyak survived a hit).
I'm OK with the 2H hiltslash, but it shouldn't do full dmg, it should hit like a 1h sword.
The stabby 1h swords are already pretty deadly, ManOfWar went like 52-4 with an italian the other night. I don't know why anyone would give up 1h thrust attack for like 1 more slash dmg or 2 more speed with a scimitar/etc. I would like to see the 1h thrust hitbox be re-tuned to actually make sense, and for the right swing to not be so slow and glance-prone. Left and overhead are fine.
Buff headhit damage too much, and everyone will just go helmet-less (why wear a 7k helmet if you still get one-hit on headhits).
Once they toned down hiltslash, they could up the combat speed, and everything would be pretty perfect.
I agree with you.
Balance would be good right now if polestagger would come back in the form of stab attack stagger.
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I agree with you.
Balance would be good right now if polestagger would come back in the form of stab attack stagger.
Fuck no.
Stagger is a shitty mechanic, balance with stats instead.
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I was about to commit the mistake of answer some pieces of crap ive read in this topic one by one and kindly offering to prove them wrong one by one on a duel server to show that they are crap,but then i realized it would be just a big lose of time. So i just -1 everypost that contains bullshit afirmations imo.
Just to give an example of one to make u people know what im talking about: "2h outreach cav". Would be ok if u talk about 1h cav,but probably u talking about lancer cav,which mostly uses heavy lance:
If the horse or horseman dies in that case, its lancer fault 100% of the time. Every good cav knows this,every good 2h knows this and everyone that knows this game at least a bit well knows this even if they didnt play any of this classes for too long. In the worst case the lancer misses and passes untouched,and so his horse. If 2h commits and the lancer its doing it right,2h dies or loses a big amount of hp 100% time. The cases in which lancer or horse dies,are frontal charges or back or side charges on an "unaware" target that its in fact,aware. Which is amistake of the lancer commiting too much,making himself not to use the maxium reach of his weapon.
So outreaching a longer weapon,doesnt even happen,EVER ,unless u using the range of the longer weapon badly(making it shorter or equal to the shorter weapon range),which its ur own mistake instead of a bug in the game or an OPNess omgawd omg !!!111 Derp.
I could just go like this on like 15 crap afirmations in this thread,but this is the only one u will get. If u get a -1 from now on,ull know u spreading bullshit.
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One of those noobs voted your post negatively. :D
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sure we stop cav but 2hers just blatantly out range them, so that leaves us with shields.......oh wait it takes a good 5-6 hits with 6ps and a fully loomed poleaxe to break an average shield, and here I was thinking polearms were poor now we don't have stun :rolleyes:
I went on duel yesterday (rare thing now days) and after about 4 duels I was one about 2-5 not because I suck, I managed to hit all my enemies but once I hit them.....its like I didn't even hit them at all, just as i finished my swing they swung back instantly and the 2hers now stun me more then my poleaxe does them...I mean come on wtf that makes no sense.
Now that we have no stun polearm will be harder to play, Im not saying the stun wasn't OP and it could of done with a nerf but taking it out completely? great now you have taken the one true advantage we have over 2hers :mad:
as for what leshma said, I think his right. Nerfing weapons to try and balance them doesn't seem to be working as we have seen from the past (remember the throwing nerf?) and IMO taking away the polestagger completely is just crazy I might as well respec to 2her or 1her now seeing as they are now the better choice :?
As a 2 hander I need 6232342134 hits to kill a shield so.... (The only BALANCED anti shield 2h is the 1h axe which has 2h mode and short as fuck, on the other hand you have BALANCED poles with anti shield bonus.) The stun had to go, it was OP as fuck.
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I do outreach even the best lancers with greatsword most of the time.
However, Superbeast is right. Lancers have longer reach if they do it right.
I do not actually outreach them. With a proper timing I avoid their stab and stab them in return. This is possible even with low athletics but it's much easier with high ath (acceleration helps a lot). Sadly, I haven't seen any other 2H doing it this way. Most of them aim for horse head or take a gamble hoping that lancer will miss them.
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Yeah u dont outreach them,exactly. U can get out and stab the middle of the horse when he passes by, but still when u do that, lancer its commiting too much(or either having a heavy slow horse,still not oureaching it). Still,if the lancer angles a couch or stabs at max range from the right of it(max reach) then he makes it go away from u in the last meters,u will not stab it. Obviously im talking bout perfect performances,which doesnt always occur on both sides cause in battle there is tons of shit that makes u not theoretically act perfectly. :)
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Nah, I can do it against loomed coursers with 8 riding skill. It's a lot harder but doable, if I don't fuck up of course. And I usually don't fuck up that move often. Against 7 riding loomed arabians isn't hard at all.
It goes like this (step by step):
1) Lancer wants to stab me and outreach me therefore he doesn't charge frontally but a little bit from the side
2) I'm waiting with chambered thrust for him to stab first
3) He does that and I'm avoiding his thrust by going backwards at the right moment and shortly after surging forward releasing a thrust which is ideally aimed at his legs (instakill)
Smart lancers who know what I'm doing will try either to fake their thrust (feint) and then actually stab me while I'm surging forward or to avoid me by thrusting too far from me, hoping that I'll run into their thrust.
It's very tactical game. We both try to stab each other while trying to stay unharmed. We both attack and avoid attack at the same time. Things is, I usually win, even against the best lancers in this game. Most of the time I dehorse them, but sometimes I hit their legs and at such high horse speed and my own speed it's usually instakill.
That's why I'm saying that greatswords have the advantage over lancers.
If you don't believe what I'm saying why don't you ask EU lancers how often they charge me when I'm aware of their presence. Only cocky ones like Oberyn will say that he always does it (that's his personality trait and the exact reason why he went against the best native duelist M and lost badly, Oberyn thinks so high of himself it's almost like a clinical condition or something).
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Smart lancers who know what I'm doing will try either to fake their thrust (feint) and then actually stab me while I'm surging forward or to avoid me by thrusting too far from me, hoping that I'll run into their thrust.
Thats what i talk about when i say in worst situation they will pass unharmed both. If game went infinitely this way,they can only outrange u or pass away from urs and theirs range,or either ull get into their thrust. This is theory.Obviously in a battle situation flags would appear if u and him were the last ones and he should dismount then,but just in terms ot theory, 2hs dont outreach lances xD. Im obviously not saying that u cant kill horses with a 2h, u can kill horses with everyweapon (even with a maul which is 68 lenght) :D,but they must fuck up at some point,even slightly.
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They just have to grow some balls and attack. Eventually they do that.
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Nerf 2h and Polearms , buff cavs and buff my old friendchers.
Cause I'm noob and I can't kill 2h people without OP class.