cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: MountedRhader on March 29, 2011, 04:51:38 am

Title: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on March 29, 2011, 04:51:38 am
Please! I am totally sick of milanese-plated saranid-samurai with huscarl shields and side swords!
This is almost vital to the cRPG community. Give us a shield that equals the huscarl in stats but looks like an actual Knight shield! Perhaps even equal tier shields for all Calradian cultures so that people can really accentuate their styles.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Diomedes on March 29, 2011, 05:25:50 am
I'd love this.  Just take them out and leave players with some gold and tokens for lost heirlooms.  My preference is that the replacement shields be slightly different in size/shape though.  It's fun to see culturally unique differences among M&B factions, especially when playing against themed clans.

Note: perhaps this is a good time to suggest that we keep a huscarl-ish shield for hoplites.  Maybe increase its cost OR lower its stats, and remove the ugly metal bits from the front.  Ancient gear is underrepresented in this game so it may not be a good plan to remove one of the central de facto models players use to roleplay ancient era combat.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on March 29, 2011, 05:30:55 am
I'd love this.  Just take them out and leave players with some gold and tokens for lost heirlooms.  My preference is that the replacement shields be slightly different in size/shape though.  It's fun to see culturally unique differences among M&B factions, especially when playing against themed clans.

Note: perhaps this is a good time to suggest that we keep a huscarl-ish shield for hoplites.  Maybe increase its cost OR lower its stats, and remove the ugly metal bits from the front.  Ancient gear is underrepresented in this game so it may not be a good plan to remove one of the central de facto models players use to roleplay ancient era combat.
Agreed 100%. We need more diversity among 1hand users and themed clans. I don't necessarily want to replace the huscy, just add 2-3 more shields for different factions/players.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Keshian on March 29, 2011, 05:45:45 am
Please! I am totally sick of milanese-plated saranid-samurai with huscarl shields and side swords!
This is almost vital to the cRPG community. Give us a shield that equals the huscarl in stats but looks like an actual Knight shield! Perhaps even equal tier shields for all Calradian cultures so that people can really accentuate their styles.

+1 OP, so overdone and it won't be changed unless its no longer the go to shield for most shielders.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on March 29, 2011, 05:47:08 am
Exactly.  :)
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MouthnHoof on March 29, 2011, 11:08:50 am
Just nerf the huscal shield a bit and there will be plenty of alternative to it. It is just a short module_items1.py file edit.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Casimir on March 29, 2011, 11:12:08 am
Dunno. Block their right swing. Overhead with your long maul. Problem solved.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Ermes on March 29, 2011, 12:04:47 pm
Yep to new good shields, no to nerf.

Maybe to beer.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on March 29, 2011, 02:26:11 pm
nerf the huscarl shield to pieces! its really annoying no one uses other shields. if there is a shielder it always hasa huscarl shield -.-
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Razzer on March 29, 2011, 02:30:48 pm
nerf the huscarl shield to pieces! its really annoying no one uses other shields. if there is a shielder it always hasa huscarl shield -.-
Shut up Schütze you have no rights and we don't like you.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: rustyspoon on March 29, 2011, 02:39:42 pm
If they just fixed shields where shield speed made any kind of really noticeable difference, this problem would fix itself.

As it stands, a Huscarl has a speed rating of 81. A Knightly heater has 100. However, that speed difference is BARELY noticeable. If people were rewarded more for using faster shields, I think we would see a lot more shield diversity. The Huscarl would then be very useful for say, pushing into a castle's walls and something like the Knightly Heater would be great for just general fighting.

If people switched to the faster lighter shields -which also can die in about 2 axe hits- I think we'd also have less people complaining about shields.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Diomedes on March 29, 2011, 03:45:32 pm
I completely notice a difference between the two.  I also notice that in hard combat the knightly heater lasts for twenty seconds.  That's where the huscarl shield is really tops.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 29, 2011, 03:48:16 pm
Dunno. Block their right swing. Overhead with your long maul. Problem solved.

That's your solution to everything, Cas.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: ManOfWar on March 29, 2011, 05:27:01 pm
Let the scrubs use Huscarl shields, people who know whats up choose heater shield, like myself
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Chasab on March 29, 2011, 05:48:40 pm
i just pick up what manofwar was using after(if) he dies.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Centurion on March 29, 2011, 06:00:41 pm
I want a roman shield. Boeard shields are slow and useless just gimme a high tier roman shield for roman clans and players. All the other clans have their fancy shields for their rp needs except the mid eastern and romans. But at least mid easterns get armor and the stereotypical scimitar.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Polobow on March 29, 2011, 07:54:32 pm
Change huscarl's req to 6, change steel shield req to 4, lower the armor, give it a diff model, here you have your shield.

Huscarl should be harder to get, i agree with that. I use my shield more offensively and supportively as a hoplite. Same for my 0 PD snowflakes, to imidate them.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Teeth on March 29, 2011, 08:07:13 pm
All the other clans have their fancy shields for their rp needs except the mid eastern and romans. But at least mid easterns get armor and the stereotypical scimitar.
Crpg's 'time period' doesnt include Romans so its not that strange that you dont have all the Roman stuff you want.

Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 29, 2011, 10:56:19 pm
People who want to nerf the huscarl are approaching it the wrong way -- you want a buff so the other shields are useful. OR as this thread is suggesting, other high tier shields.

I would like a shield similar to the huscarl in size and coverage, but would be offset to the left. Your right arm and leg would be visible and easy to hit for enemies, however it would be an ideal shield for TEAM PLAY. It would be perfect for shield walls, general teamplay, and be more realistic, while worse in single combat.

/caring
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Centurion on March 29, 2011, 11:10:35 pm
cRPG didn't include ninja stuff til it was put in late by chadz  because your clan asked. Why can't I ask for some roman stuff.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Casimir on March 29, 2011, 11:17:33 pm
Lol ninjas crying about time periods and different cultures being included in the game, thats rich.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Diomedes on March 29, 2011, 11:49:35 pm
Fuck To hell with "time period."  This is a mod that allows players to play with persistent online characters.  Loads of in-game stuff is player-made and antithetical to Taleworld's original intentions.  The fact it's a mod inherently declares that already.  So long as it's balanced there aren't any prima facie issues with new gear.  I really wish this issue would stop being raised and debated in such a trite way.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Blondin on March 30, 2011, 01:38:50 am
Crpg's 'time period' doesnt include Romans so its not that strange that you dont have all the Roman stuff you want.

Are you talking about the 'time period' when there were plenty of crossdresser?
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on March 30, 2011, 03:12:41 am
I want a roman shield. Boeard shields are slow and useless just gimme a high tier roman shield for roman clans and players. All the other clans have their fancy shields for their rp needs except the mid eastern and romans. But at least mid easterns get armor and the stereotypical scimitar.
Heraldic Roman shield!  :lol: I'm all for it.
The real strengths of the Huscarl lie in it's massive health bank and overall coverage. I would like to see 1-2 new shield(s) out there that are equally as powerful with less/more coverage and have nothing to do with Nords.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Diomedes on March 30, 2011, 03:31:18 am
The issue is that the Ancient Greeks, and some other peoples, used the fundamentals of the huscarl: big health, big circle, big armour.  It's a good shield design, and one still used today by riot cops (I was in Athens during the protests last summer and when I saw the police in phalanxes with round shields I lol'd).  IMO it should be slowed down a tad.  It's a sensible shield but, if it becomes slow enough, it will become a handicap for fast 1h players (i.e. no more side sword+huscarl players).
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Bjarky on March 30, 2011, 03:49:39 am
http://www.thecastlecourt.com/battle%20and%20decorative%20shields
http://www.a2armory.com/medshiel.html
http://replicaweaponry.com/medish1.html
http://www.historicalweapons.com/medievalshields.html
http://www.armorvenue.com/shields-medieval-shields.html
http://www.medievalware.com/Medieval-Shields-s/7.htm
here's some shields, maybe this can help a little for the creative process  :D
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Lansamur on March 30, 2011, 08:36:34 am
I wonder how many people in this thread actually ever played with a Huscarl themselves...

It's for a reason one of the top-tier shields. Slow to draw, heavy weight, but better than average stats against anything. It's balanced out. Tbh, I don't see a lot of Huscarlshield-users these days. More like Heavy Round Shields or Normans. If I'm correct, the Huscarl costs about 390g upkeep. Too much for most. And combined with a non-spammy 1h (so every 1h below 100 speed on MW-status) you're mostly just too slow against anybody. So, all in all:

Design new ones, but don't replace the Huscarl. For RP-players like me and SeaRaiders for example it's just perfectly looking combined with the complete Nord Huscarl-style.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Polobow on March 30, 2011, 03:55:55 pm
I wonder how many people in this thread actually ever played with a Huscarl themselves...

It's for a reason one of the top-tier shields. Slow to draw, heavy weight, but better than average stats against anything. It's balanced out. Tbh, I don't see a lot of Huscarlshield-users these days. More like Heavy Round Shields or Normans. If I'm correct, the Huscarl costs about 390g upkeep. Too much for most. And combined with a non-spammy 1h (so every 1h below 100 speed on MW-status) you're mostly just too slow against anybody. So, all in all:

Design new ones, but don't replace the Huscarl. For RP-players like me and SeaRaiders for example it's just perfectly looking combined with the complete Nord Huscarl-style.

The steel shield, which has 2 more requirement, is slower than the huscarl. It is smaller, and is less effective against axes. Yep, it has alot of armour, but it seems not to take notice on the 'bonus v shields' bonus on axes.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Phalanx300 on March 30, 2011, 03:58:42 pm
How about the Dueling Shield?  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9VG4ClQcJk
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Spawny on March 30, 2011, 05:41:56 pm
The steel shield, which has 2 more requirement, is slower than the huscarl. It is smaller, and is less effective against axes. Yep, it has alot of armour, but it seems not to take notice on the 'bonus v shields' bonus on axes.

What's your point?

I wonder how many people in this thread actually ever played with a Huscarl themselves...

It's for a reason one of the top-tier shields. Slow to draw, heavy weight, but better than average stats against anything. It's balanced out. Tbh, I don't see a lot of Huscarlshield-users these days. More like Heavy Round Shields or Normans. If I'm correct, the Huscarl costs about 390g upkeep. Too much for most. And combined with a non-spammy 1h (so every 1h below 100 speed on MW-status) you're mostly just too slow against anybody. So, all in all:

Design new ones, but don't replace the Huscarl. For RP-players like me and SeaRaiders for example it's just perfectly looking combined with the complete Nord Huscarl-style.

I agree. The huscarlshield is too slow for my style (I'm strength based, so it would make me even slower) and I only use it during sieges where I have to fend of/keep busy multiple enemies most of the time.

In battles, I mostly use the knightly heater. It's nice and fast, can take quite some arrows and it looks nice. Breaks rather fast though.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Diomedes on March 30, 2011, 06:38:59 pm
What's your point?

I agree. The huscarlshield is too slow for my style (I'm strength based, so it would make me even slower) and I only use it during sieges where I have to fend of/keep busy multiple enemies most of the time.

In battles, I mostly use the knightly heater. It's nice and fast, can take quite some arrows and it looks nice. Breaks rather fast though.
I wonder how many people in this thread actually ever played with a Huscarl themselves...

It's for a reason one of the top-tier shields. Slow to draw, heavy weight, but better than average stats against anything. It's balanced out. Tbh, I don't see a lot of Huscarlshield-users these days. More like Heavy Round Shields or Normans. If I'm correct, the Huscarl costs about 390g upkeep. Too much for most. And combined with a non-spammy 1h (so every 1h below 100 speed on MW-status) you're mostly just too slow against anybody. So, all in all:

Design new ones, but don't replace the Huscarl. For RP-players like me and SeaRaiders for example it's just perfectly looking combined with the complete Nord Huscarl-style.

I think I ultimately agree with you guys for the most part.  It's just super frustrating to see good players using the huscarl and side sword.  I know I have a very irritating build, with a warhammer and huscarl, but at least I need to get in close to use it.  Perhaps I'm just intolerant.

I should throw it out there that I use the shield for its health and size.  This seems reasonable, especially considering how much I play support/guard for my team.  People playing more Rambo-y may want a lighter/weaker shield of the same size that could block arrows and move quickly.  Being weaker, axes would take it to pieces faster than a normal huscarl.  Being the same size, though, it would still deal well against multiple enemy and disparate ranged opponents.  Is this a good niche for new shields?
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Formless on March 30, 2011, 06:41:40 pm
So many people wining about the housecarl shield.  Suck it up ladies  :D.  Shielders suffer from 2 cripling problems already:

1.)  Killing power
2.)  Range of weapon

Lets not add a third disadvantage of crappy shields. 

I play siege exclusively and I have found the houscarl to be the best for that mode of play.  The only problem with it is that a regular housecarl shield never lasts longer then about 1 minute or 6 axe hits whichever comes first.  If anything the housecarl could use an hp boost.  Every other shield other then the houscarl sucks.  The other shields are usually either too slow or break much too quickly.  The houscarl hits that sweet spot of good enough speed and good enough protection. 

As to changing the requirements for the houscarl from 4 to 6.  That is a bad idea.  It asks for the same restriction for builds as riding a Cataphract horse. 
In summary if you want to see other shields then the houscarl come up with shields comparable with it in hp and speed.





 
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Centurion on March 30, 2011, 07:33:04 pm
Boom

Formless said it all. I would still like a roman shield because it is a tried and tested design that works. Make it like a steel round shield in stats just as tall as huscarl in height but not width. Give it a ok speed nothing to nifty. It would be a cool support shield. Doesn't need to be amazing.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: BlackMilk on March 30, 2011, 07:51:22 pm
Shut up Schütze you have no rights and we don't like you.
? :shock:
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: ToxicKilla on March 30, 2011, 08:38:13 pm
+1
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Engine on March 30, 2011, 09:04:48 pm
High-end shields have needed more viable options for a LONG time.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on April 01, 2011, 11:43:04 pm
High-end shields have needed more viable options for a LONG time.
Yes.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: tony on April 02, 2011, 12:11:21 am
Maybe you guys can suggest some shields to get this ball rolling.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on April 02, 2011, 08:06:52 am
We need something that rivals the Huscarl in strength or could rival it. A roman shield might do the trick, or a massive super pimped heater shield.  :twisted:
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: ToxicKilla on April 05, 2011, 08:46:19 am
Aye, but a Roman shield would ruin the atmosphere more than it aleady is. Maybe just a big heater shield, nearly as wide as the huscarl, but a bit taller.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on April 05, 2011, 08:47:17 am
^
Super pimped heater shield.  8-)
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: RiPLeY_II on April 05, 2011, 04:38:21 pm
What we need a good old Greek shield. Stats similar to the huscarl's, but a different visual style so not everyone wears the same.


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And also if it could be possible to add a Greek-style spear to use in hoplite-style it would be great. Now the only options we have are war spear, double sided spear and battle fork (awlpike does apply a penalty for 1h-wielding). The most expensive is 3150 (battle fork). All of the other styles have more expensive (and better overall, combining pros and cons) weapons.

A 93/94 speed,150 reach, 30/31 piercing damage for about 6000 would be ok (considering it only has one attack direction).

Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: owens on April 08, 2011, 01:50:12 pm
Shields that don't fit historically would only add to the atmosphere. It would be an arena in which the greatest warriors and empires of all time fight. I hope that doesn't sound too gay but it is what crpg should be.
More high end shields would only create more play styles, options for tactics and player appearance. Roman, Greek and Uruk hai shields would be welcomed

Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Spawny on April 08, 2011, 02:02:24 pm
Playing in sieges with a normal board shield now. Works fine, just have to watch out for arrows.
It broke about 2 times on me, once after getting kited by Tenne across the walls and taking loads of blows/arrows and once when fighting a guy with a GLB.

It's just slow. The heavy board shield is even more durable, but a bit slower and heavier than the huscarl shield with less!! coverage. You can't get hit in the foot or face when using a heavy board shield, but the same applies to the huscarl. The heavy board shield exposes your sides though, the huscarl still blocks arrows from the side.
The only real reason to take the heavy board shield over the huscarl is style.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on April 08, 2011, 02:24:19 pm
The only real reason to take the heavy board shield over the huscarl is style.
One of the only reasons I use it.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Thalamond on April 12, 2011, 03:39:29 pm
i'd say decrease the forceshield of the shield skill drastically, then a board shield would be ALOT more useful because of its model/size alone, and those medium shields would be medium shields, as they should be, and not psychic shields such as the ones Protoss have in starcraft.
EDIT:
And the medium shields would still be able to cover a skilled player against arrows, if he knew how to block properly with it. (putting some needed skill into shield using)
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Konrax on April 12, 2011, 03:57:38 pm
The small and medium shields hardly have a forcefield effect.

Honestly its really only the huscarl that can block 320 degrees around you.

With a 12% chance of blocking directly behind you also.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Thalamond on April 12, 2011, 04:03:39 pm
When i said medium shields i included huscarl shields in that category  :wink:. But saying that the small/medium shields in general dont have a large forceshield is not true. The little bucklers can usually protect a player's front totally if he has enough shield skill.
Duelling shields such as bucklers dont make much sense at the moment because of that.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Konrax on April 12, 2011, 04:13:06 pm
In all honesty I have used a 6 shield build for a long time and exclusively use an elite cavalry shield and it seems fair how effective the block radius is.

The bucklers have been significantly reduced in block radius also and I do see people trying to use them get killed by range easily.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Thalamond on April 12, 2011, 04:15:00 pm
i dont see why it seems fair, cant people just go play Wow if they want magic shields and fireballs  :mad:
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: La Makina on April 12, 2011, 04:23:03 pm
(...) The only problem with it is that a regular housecarl shield never lasts longer then about 1 minute or 6 axe hits whichever comes first. (...)

I use almost exclusively the great axe because of shielders and sometimes I feel it really takes too long to bash a shield (the heirloomed ones I guess). The sidesword (longer than 2h axes and way faster) do not need to 6 hits to kill me. But I guess it is just a matter of perception.

With a 12% chance of blocking directly behind you also.

Good you mention it because once my overhead attack launched right from the back of the shielder just bounced off  :shock: and no one believed what just happened to me  :?

i'd say decrease the forceshield of the shield skill drastically

Agree but add a small forceshield to the lower shields because they are pretty useless against arrows right now: you can raise them up towards ennemy archers and get shot like if you don't carry one (not only in the feet, but also in the shoulders, arms and the head). Presently it is better to run hazardously to dodge arrows than to use a Req 1 shield.

Actually I would imagine a forceshield against range weapons (to compensate what the character sees that the player cannot, e.g. the character cannot raise the shield when the player looks down) and remove it completely against melee weapons. To block an attack the shield should be blocking in the correct way.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Konrax on April 12, 2011, 04:25:39 pm
With my elite cavalry shield blocking range even when facing it is by no means 100% with shield 6 even.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Thalamond on April 12, 2011, 04:30:36 pm
Quote
Actually I would imagine a forceshield against range weapons (to compensate what the character sees that the player cannot, e.g. the character cannot raise the shield when the player looks down) and remove it completely against melee weapons. To block an attack the shield should be blocking in the correct way.

While this would be nice, i dont know if it can be implemented (hardcoded perhapse??)

I still disagree that small shields should be able to compensate against ranged weapons with a large forceshield, cause right now, 2handers who dont have shields can dance around to avoid arrows, so why shouldnt the small shield users be able to do that too? They choose to use a small shield themselves so it seems reasonable.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: EponiCo on April 12, 2011, 06:50:02 pm
I use almost exclusively the great axe because of shielders and sometimes I feel it really takes too long to bash a shield (the heirloomed ones I guess). The sidesword (longer than 2h axes and way faster) do not need to 6 hits to kill me. But I guess it is just a matter of perception.

I have the same feeling. Whenever I loaded out with an axe, either the shielder or me was dead before the shield was down ... I busted shields once or twice on the duel server, but on the battle server you don't have the luxury of making a long 1vs1. But then again with my lighter shield it often exploded after 1 axehit.

Quote
Agree but add a small forceshield to the lower shields because they are pretty useless against arrows right now: you can raise them up towards ennemy archers and get shot like if you don't carry one (not only in the feet, but also in the shoulders, arms and the head). Presently it is better to run hazardously to dodge arrows than to use a Req 1 shield.

I disagree here, shields should be balanced around people taking skill in it not around people without. Ever tried to use a melee weapon with only 1 powerstrike and no wpf? A twohander who wants to use a shield has the option to take 5 shield skill while maxing IF, PS, Ath, WM, but many people want to convert instead. This is their choice and they have to write it up to themselves if their shield sucks, just like an archer who puts all in archery can't complain about sucking in melee. Otherwise you just run into either high shield skill being to good or shield skill being worthless investment.
Btw. at close range you can't dodge, so if you keep your shield around until that and then catch point blanc throwing lance, best 500 gold you ever spent.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Diomedes on April 12, 2011, 08:53:30 pm
cRPG is an environment and any calls for a nerf should be considered in the broader balancing perspective.  If shielders become more vulnerable to arrows then we'll have more throwers, bowmen, and xbowmen because their natural nemisis would be much less of a threat.  Also, the invisible part of the shield helps significantly to hold back the weird twisting attacks of some longer close-combat weapons (I see these moves being pulled 80% of the time by Great Long Axemen - no idea why).  Being slower in [almost] every way, shielders will become much easier pickings for their generally faster 2h/polearm opponents.  If the invisible shield gets nerfed, at all, I'd strongly recommend that all shields get a defensive bonus against all ranged weaponry and a slight weight reduction.  This would help shielders to definitely keep the anti-range niche while, perhaps, keeping the balance of close-quarters.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Thalamond on April 13, 2011, 12:01:14 am
yeah, make shields tougher against ranged, but remove most of the forceshield. By the way, i am looking at things in a broad perspective. I dont want to nerf ALL shields, only the ones who clearly do not cover the whole character but because of some magical force do that anyway. This would encourage use of the shields who actually are designed to counter ranged weapons
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Diomedes on April 13, 2011, 12:33:48 am
yeah, make shields tougher against ranged, but remove most of the forceshield. By the way, i am looking at things in a broad perspective. I dont want to nerf ALL shields, only the ones who clearly do not cover the whole character but because of some magical force do that anyway. This would encourage use of the shields who actually are designed to counter ranged weapons

If we get rid of some magic shields I say we should get rid of all of them.  The enormous shields, which normally block arrows from hitting an individual player, sometimes function to cover the players to their right and left too.  I like it, as a shielder/support, but I could make due without it if it seems overpowered to other players.  As a shielder, I've got a naturally quite narrow perspective on balance and this sort of stuff  :wink:
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Konrax on April 13, 2011, 02:57:30 pm
I ran with the huscarl last night for a single round on siege....

I killed over 20 enemies in a row lol, yeah I will admit that the huscarl is OP, but so is side sword, 2h weapons in general (magical swing speed bonus wtf?) Strength Builds, and Throwing (apparently).

You are indeed right about the great poleaxe magical shield bypass skill, it happens to me fairly often when I am directly facing my opponent and the attack still bypasses my shield.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MrShovelFace on April 13, 2011, 11:49:42 pm
honestly a shield that covers you in 180 degree protection and masks your every movement does not also need to have great durability.

A shield that size should have serious draw backs as well as cookie points to balance it out rather than it's state now where it is among the
best all-around-shields


but the huscarl shield stays i say but there needs to be real motivation to use something other than that
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Blondin on April 14, 2011, 12:13:13 am
but the huscarl shield stays i say but there needs to be real motivation to use something other than that

Style?
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: John on April 14, 2011, 05:09:00 am
Give me these shields, or give me death!

(click to show/hide)

Or not.  I don't even use shields.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: MountedRhader on April 14, 2011, 05:18:27 am
Give me these shields, or give me death!

(click to show/hide)

Or not.  I don't even use shields.
^
SUPER PIMPED heater shield.  :twisted:
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Whalen207 on April 14, 2011, 06:22:41 am
Please! I am totally sick of milanese-plated saranid-samurai with huscarl shields and side swords!
This is almost vital to the cRPG community. Give us a shield that equals the huscarl in stats but looks like an actual Knight shield! Perhaps even equal tier shields for all Calradian cultures so that people can really accentuate their styles.

Knightly heater is fine.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on April 14, 2011, 11:33:18 am
razzer dont tell me to shut up during a serious duscussion about the huscarl shield.

and i will return to crpg deadlier and moar annoying than evar! 

pls nerf the huscarl. why is it that strong by the way i mean its a shield like all the others..
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on April 14, 2011, 11:39:55 am
another point: heavy board shield weaker than a heater shield although it needs 2 mpoar skill points in shield skill to use it. why?

make it like in the vikingr mod, make ballistics for projectiles more realistig and decreas the unseen blocking area of shields! (example for that: even if u shoot on a bucklers carrier's feet the fired missile hits the shield)


Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Thalamond on April 14, 2011, 12:06:20 pm
honestly a shield that covers you in 180 degree protection and masks your every movement does not also need to have great durability.

A shield that size should have serious draw backs as well as cookie points to balance it out rather than it's state now where it is among the
best all-around-shields


but the huscarl shield stays i say but there needs to be real motivation to use something other than that
This is exactly why it shouldn't have 180 degree protection. I think the forceshield should be minimal.
There are a few drawbacks to the current forceshield:
1. As an archer it is pretty lame to aim a perfect headshot with the shield a half meter away from the head, only to see the shield absorb it anyway.

2. i find it boring to defend against archers sometimes as a shielder, because its way too simple/easy, just hold the right mouse button and you suddenly have an impenetrable defence against ranged weapons even though your shield is the size of your head :rolleyes:

So to make more variety in the use of shields while still keeping them balanced, i think the Huge and heavy shields like the board shield should stay as they are. The Huscarls + whatever medium shield get nerfed on the forceshield part, but otherwise stay the same.
=
Heavy shields: Best ranged weapon protection (slow speed, large protection area, good hp, weak armor)

Medium shields/Huscarls: Best jack of all trades (medium speed, medium protection area, medium hp, medium armor)

Small (expensive) shields: Best melee protection (fast speed, small protection area, good hp, good armor)
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: La Makina on April 14, 2011, 02:10:05 pm
The steel buckler (radius 15 cm) absorbing all bolts and arrows like a magnet is such a nonsense.
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Thalamond on April 14, 2011, 03:14:09 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

No i think not
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on April 15, 2011, 10:14:19 am
yes it is! cant we make bucklers realistic: that they only block melee blows and no missiles?
Title: Re: An equal-Tier shield opposed to the over used Huscarl-shield
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on April 15, 2011, 07:06:40 pm
remove bucklers from premises. only a jedi can cover his feet with a buckler.