cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Ronin on June 12, 2012, 06:59:35 pm

Title: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Ronin on June 12, 2012, 06:59:35 pm
I'm not really sure, if that was same before but I just noticed that heavy norman shields are 2 slot now. Since this kind of information is missing on the website and it is not really wise to buy every shield to see how much slot it requires, I just want to know which shields are 1 slot and which are 2. I need that information, because it is an important information for hoplites such as my alt.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: Turboflex on June 12, 2012, 07:02:24 pm
Any shield weight 8.0 or higher is 2 slot.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: Ronin on June 12, 2012, 07:43:28 pm
Hmm thanks for the answer, really helpful. So, the only thing I have to learn is which polearms are used with a shield. I know:
Bamboo
War Spear
Ashwood
Red Tassel
Double Sided Lance

and some other non-important ones.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: callahan9119 on June 12, 2012, 08:01:43 pm
Light Lance
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: San on June 12, 2012, 08:05:45 pm
Fauchard is also usable with shield and sheathable. It sucks against infantry (with shield, decent without), but is good against cavalry.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: Ronin on June 12, 2012, 08:08:47 pm
Light Lance
Thanks callahan! I will definitely try that one too, its' stats look promising.

Fauchard is also usable with shield and sheathable. It sucks against infantry (with shield, decent without), but is good against cavalry.
Well, fauchard is in no comparision to the bamboo spear. I am only interested in decent ones, but thank you as well.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: San on June 12, 2012, 08:28:55 pm
Of course. I only mentioned it since it is by far the longest sheathable polearm usable with shield and only worth 2.5k gold.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: Ronin on June 12, 2012, 08:34:20 pm
Oh! then it seems you forgot the bamboooo spear.
It is much more longer, and has more thrust damage, same speed. The only adventage of fauchard is, it is sheateble. Though, it fucks up the view when it is sheathed.

Hmm, does anyone know battle fork and military fork can be used with a spear? Because they look a bit short, although promising.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: callahan9119 on June 12, 2012, 08:53:49 pm
You mean with a shield? Yes the forks can.

I assumed you thought they were "non-important" as you didn't mention them.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: Sarpton on June 12, 2012, 09:55:22 pm
Battle Fork is actually quite good.  But any spears over 150 length get a damage/speed reduction   25/30 respectively IIRC.
Title: Re: Shields - slots
Post by: oprah_winfrey on June 12, 2012, 10:56:20 pm
Battle Fork is actually quite good.  But any spears over 150 length get a damage/speed reduction   25/30 respectively IIRC.

ALL polearms get this reduction, not just ones 150 length or higher. However, they are longer when used with a shield. What is important about 150 length is that you have the ability to rear horses with a polearm if it is that length or longer (assuming it is also pierce damage, the horse is moving fast enough, and you hit the head)

EDIT: I have heard that shields with weight 8.0 are now one slot again, but I have not witnessed this first hand.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Digglez on June 13, 2012, 03:02:59 am
btw OP, norman shields & kite shields in general are TERRIBLE choice for hoplites.  You are 10x more likely to get hit on your side in melee than take an arrow in your toe...Get a round shield
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: oohillac on June 13, 2012, 05:47:21 am
Double Sided Lance is great for a shield combo.  I had a MW one for a few generations.  Short enough to spinstab effectively with a shield, four swing directions when you have no shield.  Plus it looks nice:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Dalfador on June 15, 2012, 04:55:20 am
Any shield over 7 weight is 2 slots i believe.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Sarpton on June 16, 2012, 03:24:42 am
Via Wal F4



The penalty with shield modifier is for damage, and a 30% reduction in damage seems to be accurate. All polearms are slower when used with a shield compared to when used two handed, even those without the penalty with shield modifier. The difference in time per attack depends on the weapon speed. The equations for time per attack verses weapon speed with 1 proficiency are:

Time per attack for polearms used with two hands = -0.0124 seconds * (weapon speed) + 2.3368 seconds
Time per attack for polearms used with a shield     = -0.0195 seconds * (weapon speed) + 3.257 seconds

Where those equations are coming from can be found in this thread if you are interested. The percent increase in time per attack for a polearm used with a shield compared to used two handed is:

Speed 104 Staff: 17%
Speed 98 Spear: 20%
Speed 95 War Spear: 21%
Speed 92 Awlpike: 22%
Speed 90 Bamboo Spear: 23%
Speed 75 Heavy Lance: 28%

The percentages remain constant regardless of user proficiency as the reduction in time per attack with increasing proficiency is proportional to the time per attack at 1 proficiency and the reduction in time per attack appears to be constant at ~6.5% per 100 proficiency for all weapon animations.



For more precision See Walt's complete thread  ( WITH PICTURES AND GRAPHS AND SHIZZ YO!)  http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.0.html
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Jarlek on June 17, 2012, 02:07:48 am
Ashwood pike is my favourite as a hoplite. Only switch it for a War Spear if I want a to be able to sheath it.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Ozin on June 17, 2012, 03:48:02 am
Via Wal F4



The penalty with shield modifier is for damage, and a 30% reduction in damage seems to be accurate. All polearms are slower when used with a shield compared to when used two handed, even those without the penalty with shield modifier. The difference in time per attack depends on the weapon speed. The equations for time per attack verses weapon speed with 1 proficiency are:

Time per attack for polearms used with two hands = -0.0124 seconds * (weapon speed) + 2.3368 seconds
Time per attack for polearms used with a shield     = -0.0195 seconds * (weapon speed) + 3.257 seconds

Where those equations are coming from can be found in this thread if you are interested. The percent increase in time per attack for a polearm used with a shield compared to used two handed is:

Speed 104 Staff: 17%
Speed 98 Spear: 20%
Speed 95 War Spear: 21%
Speed 92 Awlpike: 22%
Speed 90 Bamboo Spear: 23%
Speed 75 Heavy Lance: 28%

The percentages remain constant regardless of user proficiency as the reduction in time per attack with increasing proficiency is proportional to the time per attack at 1 proficiency and the reduction in time per attack appears to be constant at ~6.5% per 100 proficiency for all weapon animations.



For more precision See Walt's complete thread  ( WITH PICTURES AND GRAPHS AND SHIZZ YO!)  http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.0.html
I don't believe that is accurate any more as of late.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Sarpton on June 18, 2012, 03:14:13 pm
Really?  What are the more accurate stats or where might I find these stats?



* edit because it sounded kinda petulant.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 18, 2012, 04:05:06 pm
I have been using warspear as a hoplite for months now and it does the job fairly well, but I'd say you need a good amount of athl with it if you want to be effective as a support. Ashwood pike has nice reach and therefore the athl is not needed, so if you are going for killingblows ashwood pike would probably do the job combined with a pretty high PS build.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Civilian on June 19, 2012, 04:35:33 am
I prefer the ashwood pike. It has the perfect range for my playstyle. Great way to disrupt enemies.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Ronin on June 19, 2012, 09:59:09 am
I agree with ashwood pike users, it is the most balanced one so far. Even if it unsheatable, that's less of a problem even for hybrids (1hander prob.) because it is possible to take it back from the ground.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: bruce on June 19, 2012, 11:39:38 am
I saw two very effective hoplites on EU, one (Kinggrype) is using a warspear and has quite high ath/agi, the other (Eren) is a str build with ashwood pike and deals a hell of a lot of damage.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Cyclopsided on June 19, 2012, 01:21:33 pm
I don't believe that is accurate any more as of late.
Unless you developers (if anyone did, cmp) actually edited this shit with WSE recently, it is still accurate. Because that's mostly game engine stuff.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Sarpton on June 22, 2012, 09:27:58 pm
bump because now I'd like to know,  if something was changed and we are unaware?
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Strider on June 23, 2012, 12:14:43 am
the hoplite build really seems to suck now because all the spear or unsheathable and 2-3 slotted.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Ronin on June 23, 2012, 08:24:15 pm
the hoplite build really seems to suck now because all the spear or unsheathable and 2-3 slotted.
You think so ? :P
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Teeth on June 24, 2012, 02:24:15 pm
I saw two very effective hoplites on EU, one (Kinggrype) is using a warspear and has quite high ath/agi, the other (Eren) is a str build with ashwood pike and deals a hell of a lot of damage.
I'm quite sure KingGylpe also uses an ashwood and they both use board shields and similar armor, I always confuse them.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: bruce on June 24, 2012, 02:38:55 pm
Kinggrype uses Huscarl that I am sure of, Eren uses board and has a strbuild. Maybe they were trying to match gear, like the invasion of Bagge clones one night.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Teeth on June 24, 2012, 03:11:58 pm
Kinggrype uses Huscarl that I am sure of, Eren uses board and has a strbuild. Maybe they were trying to match gear, like the invasion of Bagge clones one night.
True he uses a Huscarl, I remember now, I think they indeed copied their equipment for the night.
Title: Re: Shields and spears - hoplite discussion
Post by: Zanze on June 24, 2012, 10:11:25 pm
Add an overhead stab.