cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Bobthehero on June 09, 2012, 10:41:58 am

Title: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bobthehero on June 09, 2012, 10:41:58 am
Give a bonus damage to a player if:

He has at the very least 75 wpf in 1h, no wpf in 2h or polearm or both, no shield skill, possibly no riding too.

This would also buff the archer melee capacities a bit, with a bit of dedication, so they could still pew pew and fight okay-ish in melee.

This would also buff me a bit, so do it.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Lange on June 09, 2012, 03:52:11 pm
One handed only is faster than anything else there is. That should be sufficient.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: bruce on June 09, 2012, 04:14:28 pm
Ye buff swashbucklers implement bucklers.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Molly on June 09, 2012, 04:20:40 pm
Give a bonus damage to a player if:

He has at the very least 75 wpf in 1h, no wpf in 2h or polearm or both, no shield skill, possibly no riding too.

This would also buff the archer melee capacities a bit, with a bit of dedication, so they could still pew pew and fight okay-ish in melee.

This would also buff me a bit, so do it.
+1
I actually like this idea. Sacrificing a lot to get those bonuses, it wouldn't even be unfair.
No shield, no reach, block stagger... 1h-only is already pretty gimped. And the speed argument is useless considering how fast some people are even able to spam a Flamberge (Yes, talking to you, Lennu!)
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Lange on June 09, 2012, 06:15:38 pm
And the speed argument is useless considering I can't make use of it for shit.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Molly on June 09, 2012, 06:36:09 pm
Fixed.

Cuz I refuse to left swing spam like most HRE guys? Yes.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: bruce on June 09, 2012, 07:43:09 pm
You can use a shield with it. Buff archery to buff shields!  :twisted:
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Zisa on June 09, 2012, 08:27:44 pm
The biggest problems I find with swashbucklers:
animations.
Blocking - character leans to the side like she has a cramp or a congenital defect. This is the worst for me.

Attacking - unlike 2handed (sort of, some of you guys are trying to kill this) the animations do not really flow and seem choppy (as do polearms) when chaining attacks or feinting.

Damage - ok if you decide that the speed of the character makes up for being somewhat of a flyweight. Double Jeopardy though, odds are good you will glance, which ruins what little damage there is without interrupting the incoming attack from a pole arm or 2 hander. This means your speed is again, mostly useless. And thanks to the speed bonus type of malus, if you dare to back even one iota you increase the chance of getting a glance (and probably eating a polearm or 2handed weapon).
Ponder this.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: bruce on June 09, 2012, 09:13:29 pm
The biggest advantage of 1hs is that you can use a shield with them. Which, granted, is not so mandatory as it was in old crpg when even 2hs had shields since being oneshot/twoshot by a bow is not funny, and throwing and crossbows were more dangerous.

1h no shield (as a class) is little more then a novelty class for bored people.

Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bobthehero on June 09, 2012, 09:43:41 pm
Its been my class for the better part of 2 years...
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Teeth on June 09, 2012, 09:54:10 pm
Nah not necesarry, 1h no shield is pretty viable. I like how the only reason to go swashbuckler is because you are awesome. You just know when you see another swashbuckler that he is awesome.

Bask in your awesomeness Bob! Bask in it!
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: bruce on June 09, 2012, 10:01:14 pm
Then you don't need buffs since you're awesome and not a crutchmoder!  :D
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Lange on June 09, 2012, 11:23:41 pm
I like how the only reason to go swashbuckler is because you are awesome.
I did this and I agree.

And, yeah, 1H-only IS underpowered. Just compare the pure stats of a knightly arming and a longsword. Everything else would be pretty strange, though. So, leave it as is.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Teeth on June 09, 2012, 11:26:40 pm
I did this and I agree.

And, yeah, 1H-only IS underpowered. Just compare the pure stats of a knightly arming and a longsword. Everything else would be pretty strange, though. So, leave it as is.
Thats where the awesomeness factor comes in.

Actually 1h does have really awesome animations, people really suck at blocking them. I perform very similar as a 2h compared to swashbuckling.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bjord on June 09, 2012, 11:39:41 pm
When I think "swashbuckler" I just see LeoKing run around like a fucker and you want to buff him even more? 

Bobi pls

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Teeth on June 09, 2012, 11:57:37 pm
He is talking about using a 1 hander without a shield
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Molly on June 10, 2012, 12:02:48 am
I tried myself on 1h-only for 2-3 gens and it certainly has it's own char and needs a completely different approach to the game.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: zagibu on June 10, 2012, 02:11:08 am
I just retired a 30/9 1h no shield character. It can be a bit frustrating fighting some s-key heroes, but in tight situations, it works well.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 10, 2012, 02:28:14 am
When I think "swashbuckler" I just see LeoKing run around like a fucker and you want to buff him even more?

Bobi pls

(click to show/hide)
Leoking isn't a swashbuckler, he's a buckler-using my old friend, remove shield ghost-reach and Leo has gotten appropriately nerfed.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bobthehero on June 10, 2012, 02:40:19 am
Do read the OP, I said the bonus should only work if the character has no shield skill, zero, none, zéro, nada, aucun, pas de shield skill.

The WPF requirement (feel free to change it to something, 100 might be more appropriate, but at 70 my archer alt could use the bonus too) is there so that archer would need to invest a bit of skills, but not too much, so they can get okay-ish melee and lower ranged capacities.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: bruce on June 10, 2012, 03:15:40 am
Leoking isn't a swashbuckler, he's a buckler-using my old friend, remove shield ghost-reach and Leo has gotten appropriately nerfed.

"Swashbuckler (a.k.a. swasher) is a term that emerged in the 16th century[1] and has been used for rough, noisy and boastful swordsmen ever since. A possible explanation for this term is that it derives from a fighting style using a side-sword with a buckler in the off-hand, which was applied with much "swashing and making a noise on the buckler".[2] Later the name "swashbuckler" (like Gunslinger) became common for an archetype and the accordant special film genre.[3]In Italy the genre was known as Cappa e spada."

Courtesy of Wikipedia. So he is a swashbuckler, while you no shield my old friends are just archerbait. Buff ranged.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bobthehero on June 10, 2012, 03:35:29 am
Fuck off Bruce, I am calling my class how I want.

You really are an idiot, should have though so after your ''buff ranged damage by 50% uheuhueuhe''

'sides, I boast often, probably too often sometimes, so it fits.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 10, 2012, 04:26:06 am
"Swashbuckler (a.k.a. swasher) is a term that emerged in the 16th century[1] and has been used for rough, noisy and boastful swordsmen ever since. A possible explanation for this term is that it derives from a fighting style using a side-sword with a buckler in the off-hand, which was applied with much "swashing and making a noise on the buckler".[2] Later the name "swashbuckler" (like Gunslinger) became common for an archetype and the accordant special film genre.[3]In Italy the genre was known as Cappa e spada."

Courtesy of Wikipedia. So he is a swashbuckler, while you no shield my old friends are just archerbait. Buff ranged.
Noob, Leoking never boasts, and he isn't noisy in his gay ass armor.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Ronin on June 10, 2012, 02:59:10 pm
I agree with the OP's suggestion, it would be really cool.

However, there is one part I do not agree. I think no wpf in twohand/polearm is not really needed. If a 2hander/hoplite/pikeman wants to use 1handed as a sidearm, he truly deserves a buff.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bobthehero on June 10, 2012, 06:37:50 pm
I put that there because I was thinking about giving a Power Strike bonus, and that it could affect 2 handers who could just put x 1h WPF and use their 2h weapon with all the benefits.

Meh, lack of proper sleep, now I realise the bonus could just appear when there's a 1h out.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 10, 2012, 08:31:03 pm
I put that there because I was thinking about giving a Power Strike bonus, and that it could affect 2 handers who could just put x 1h WPF and use their 2h weapon with all the benefits.

Meh, lack of proper sleep, now I realise the bonus could just appear when there's a 1h out.

More power strike bonus, lol, you already have 10.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bobthehero on June 10, 2012, 08:46:39 pm
Well free damage is pretty much extra powerstrike, ain't it :P

I will have 11 in 39 million experience.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Tindel on June 13, 2012, 02:05:05 pm
I think the block stagger is the biggest problem, really fucks you up when facing a heavy hitter.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: [ptx] on June 13, 2012, 02:14:40 pm
Damage is less, yeah, but the right swing lets you do some really sweet range control with a 1h, not to mention that barely anyone can withstand more than just a couple of 1h feints. Also, hitting face.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Vibe on June 13, 2012, 02:23:07 pm
But the beauty of being a swashbuckler is that you're at a disadvantage!
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Ronin on June 13, 2012, 02:49:15 pm
How about different animations? The current ones make sense when they are used with a shield. However, a swashbuckler would surely use different positioning:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


My suggestion is
-More reach for left swing (a different animation)
and
- Better speed for right swing (a different animation)

Other then that, keep their stats same.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: bruce on June 13, 2012, 02:58:25 pm
How about different animations? The current ones make sense when they are used with a shield. However, a swashbuckler would surely use different positioning:

My suggestion is
-More reach for left swing (a different animation)
and
- Better speed for right swing (a different animation)

Other then that, keep their stats same.

Now that sounds sensible.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bobthehero on June 13, 2012, 08:45:26 pm
And a stab using the position of the model you shown, that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bjord on June 13, 2012, 10:10:06 pm
I am thinking of going swashbuckler, sorry about my previous post, that was very ignorant of me.

Easily the most classy class. 8-)
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: San on June 13, 2012, 10:46:10 pm
Special animations without shield make sense to me.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Vibe on June 14, 2012, 09:51:41 am
Would love 1h specific animations, hopefuly ones where stab won't glance half of the time without spinning
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Everkistus on June 14, 2012, 10:47:47 am
Specific no-shield 1h animations would be kickass!
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bjord on June 14, 2012, 11:47:00 am
Agreed!
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Teeth on June 14, 2012, 12:48:45 pm
I am thinking of going swashbuckler, sorry about my previous post, that was very ignorant of me.

Easily the most classy class. 8-)
I'm glad I have shown you the light.

Specific no-shield 1h animations would be kickass!
I would like to see fencing style animations. And a hat with a feather. I love the current animations though, they are all awesome and all have their specific use and are about equally useful, unlike the other classes.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bjord on June 14, 2012, 12:55:37 pm
I'm glad I have shown you the light.

To be fair, the prophet is not you but Bob. Messiah of Swashbuckler, I bestow upon you my esteem and respect!
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Teeth on June 14, 2012, 12:57:09 pm
To be fair, the prophet is not you but Bob. Messiah of Swashbuckler, I bestow upon you my esteem and respect!
But...but... I am his EU apprentice. Apart from that I am not going to play is 1st person. The dude is mad!
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: Bjord on June 14, 2012, 01:03:22 pm
I am great, I need no mentor. I am merely commending the pioneering hero that is Bobthehero.

Prepare to be outshined, Teeth Schmeeth.
Title: Re: Buff Swashbucklers (oh yes!)
Post by: MrShine on June 14, 2012, 04:25:53 pm
But the beauty of being a swashbuckler is that you're at a disadvantage!