cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: rustyspoon on May 05, 2012, 04:03:15 am

Title: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: rustyspoon on May 05, 2012, 04:03:15 am
Ever since CRPG changed to the xp/gold per minute system, we’ve had some good changes and a lot of bad.
 
Good things



Bad things


I personally feel that the xp/gold per minute system has really ruined a lot of fun that was present in the old system. I suggest we return to a modified version of the old xp/gold system.

For those that weren’t around back then or forgot how it worked, it worked like this:

If you were near combat you got gold/xp for every enemy killed. Higher level players were worth more xp/gold. After you died, you still received gold and xp for a certain amount of time. If your team wins, you gain all the xp and gold you earned over the round. If your team lost you gain (if I remember correctly) 25% of it.

Now what if we combined the old system with upkeep? Your cumulative chance of upkeep would continue as long as you were alive. With our current system I think it’s a 4% cumulative chance per minute. So, if you’re alive for 4 minutes, you have a 16% chance of upkeep per item. If we based it on how long you live, if you only live 2 minutes, you have an 8% chance. If you lived 4 minutes, you’d have a 16% chance. That way, people who die early and lose out on xp/gold will still be able to keep pace with people upkeep-wise who live longer.

In the new system, being a peasant is pointless. It doesn’t matter what you do and it’s over in hours. In the old system, you had to play and you had to play hard as a peasant. You had to try to stay alive at all costs which was fun as hell. Nowadays, it doesn’t matter what you do. You could just tape down your w key and no one would notice. It’s just a time-waster.

In the old system, being a peasant was more of a learning system. Since staying alive was so important it forced you to play better. New system keeps players bad and rewards them anyway. Those are the people who grow up to write forum posts about how such and such is overpowered.

Obviously the gold/xp per kill will have to be increased from the original system, but I think this will help bring a lot of fun back to the mod. I feel that it would help promote teamwork, all the while making individual contributions important again. I just think the current system has gotten really stale and could use a change.

What say you?
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Brrrak on May 05, 2012, 10:52:56 am
:snip:
What say you?

I say I can't press +1 on this post enough.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 05, 2012, 11:38:44 am
There are serious problems every where you look (FUCK ME AND MY GRAMMAR). I think the whole rewards system has gone to hell and I'm really not sure the old system would make the game 'fun' in the same way again. Also the game really isn't going in that direction, FFS we now have taxs... And they seem to be on par with real taxs. At least in the same way your money goes some where and you are completely baffled as to what it just paid for...
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on May 05, 2012, 12:26:28 pm
and what about ranged, who are not close to fight?
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Kafein on May 05, 2012, 12:33:57 pm
and what about ranged, who are not close to fight?

I don't think the xp tick system ( no radius ) is a bad thing. It's the multi that ruined the attitude.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: rustyspoon on May 05, 2012, 03:53:02 pm
and what about ranged, who are not close to fight?

The radius was big enough to where you'd be close enough as long as you weren't all the way across the map.

The multi system has just gotten really stale and has brought with it a host of problems. We need to kick this system out the door.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Ptolemy on May 06, 2012, 09:40:38 am
I remember the old system, I remember the map with two bridges over a river, I remember everyone "strategically" running onto the middle of it and hacking each other until everyone was dead for massive exp.

Keep it how it is.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 06, 2012, 11:08:31 am
Yeah maybe we should only have 1x and 2x and just jack it up so 1x is 2.5k and 2x is 5k. That would turn the screaming down a little. It would be far less important and people may just go back to 'fun'. It's not like anyone really gives a crap about KDR, even PRO don't really care at all. Everyone knows the best bit of this game is the fight.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Digglez on May 06, 2012, 12:00:58 pm
The only thing that needs to change about current system is meaningful punishment for leechers, not the current slap on the wrist shit.
3 strikes leeching should be a month ban and/or losing a % of your gold across account.

Half of the enforcement could be easily coded into the game, like other games have in the past.  If you arent out of spawn in 10-15 secs, auto-kick.  This is not rocket science.  Devs have to put way more effort into griefer-proofing their mod.

You'd be surprised how often people follow the rules when there is meaningful enforcement of them.


And the changes made for Valor 2.0 work pretty well in my opinion.  What your suggesting is just rewarding the kill whores.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Lord_Panos on May 06, 2012, 12:09:56 pm
the thing is that the community will never be satisfied with how things are,you always want more and more and more.

The only thing that needs to be done is when a lower level player kills a higher level player, that should give a small reward.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: rustyspoon on May 06, 2012, 03:39:06 pm
I remember the old system, I remember the map with two bridges over a river, I remember everyone "strategically" running onto the middle of it and hacking each other until everyone was dead for massive exp.

Keep it how it is.

I'm curious on how battles are different than this now.  :|
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Joker86 on May 07, 2012, 12:38:30 am
In my eyes there are two things that are absolute no-gos concerning the reward system:

- rewarding personal kills
- punishing personal deaths

I shifts the focus from winning the round too much towards having a good K/D, which I don't like.

But that's a general problem with its roots in the battle mode itself, which is won by killing all enemies. I definitely prefer gamemodes where killing enemies is helping to win the round, instead of being the ultimative goal.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Wiltzu on May 07, 2012, 03:28:23 pm
chadz has said that the old gold/xp system will never ever be implemented in.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Teeth on May 07, 2012, 05:20:12 pm
That is exactly what I was thinking. I agree completely.

chadz has said that the old gold/xp system will never ever be implemented in.
Quote? Would be a damn shame, cause a combination of the current and old xp system could be quite the improvement. The current system is very far from perfect.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Turboflex on May 07, 2012, 05:52:38 pm
I think the current system is mostly fine. It encourages a team win as opposed to kill whoring. Imagine all the team wounding if kill scores mattered more? Right now at least when you TW you are hurting your own exp chances. You also see a decent amount of tactics in play, where teams are willing to change things up if they lose. If you made it about proximity killing you would just constantly have everyone rushing to middle and picking people off. Bye bye team tactics.

I think the "stack" concerns are overblown, the only stack right now is cav being OP creating a stack from majority of cav on one team (the stacker clans people complain about, PRO and GK, are all cav clans). The only other stack would be a heavy armour stack on Siege, where if a clan comes in with all heavy plate they tend to have a huge advantage. Unfortunately the game does not currently seem to balance on items spawned (like horses or bows) or armour value. Nerf Cavalry and at least the more blatent cav stack factor disappears (my nerf choice would be rider takes heavy fall damage when dehorsed).

Like Diggles said the biggest weakness in the current system is leeching. Heavier punishments could solve it.

There might be room for some personal performance bonus. It shouldn't be purely kill based tho, make it based on a formula of (damage*relative level-teamwound dmg). So a peasant gets nicely rewarded for damageing a lvl 30, while a lvl 30 does not get extra rewards for whacking peasants, although would get decent rewards for hurting other high levels. Since it's based on damage not kills (and punishes team wounding) it will not encourage people to aggressively head hunt, but to play smart.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Wiltzu on May 08, 2012, 10:57:56 am
Quote? Would be a damn shame, cause a combination of the current and old xp system could be quite the improvement. The current system is very far from perfect.


I'm way too lazy to go out and find that post..
It has been suggested way over million times to change this gold/xp system.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: rustyspoon on May 09, 2012, 12:43:16 am
I see a lot of people saying that switching the system would 'cause kill-whoring and tactics would vanish. How would that change the game as it is currently?

Kill-whores will always be kill-whores regardless of the system you use.

And honestly, I don't ever really see the use of "tactics" during battle. Unless by tactics you mean your team splitting up and running in different directions as they get slaughtered by the team that stuck together. Or 1 team camping a hill, or ruins. That's pretty much the extent of tactics we get around here.

The multi system itself has just been bad for the community. It's caused a lot of bad attitudes and a lot of dickish behavior. As a x5 is DRAMATICALLY better than a x1, people will do every dickish thing possible to try to hold onto that x5. I've been in many games where a team that has had a string of x1's purposefully tried to draw by making sure the flags don't come up and then running away just so the other team will lose their x5. Hell, they planned it in team chat. It's all because of the multipliers that things like that happen.

When you're on the other side of a clan-stack your chances of getting anything other than an x1 are pretty low, though you may luck out with an x2 every once in a while. If you're not on the clan-stack side, you'll be rolling that x1 for quite a while.

If we got rid of the multi system, leeching will be a thing of the past. If you are required to actually do something (like stay close to the fight and stay alive) it puts the onus on you to do something instead of your team. Admins will also not have to worry about leechers anymore and can focus their attention on people who are really being dicks.

The multi system is not a good system and never has been. It needs to go. The only good thing that came out of it is upkeep, which should definitely stay. But I think the rest of that failed experiment needs to go.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Brrrak on May 09, 2012, 12:55:08 am
Not to mention that putting the onus on the individual player should help tactics arise independently, even if it's just the matter of a bunch of people blobbing together to crash into another blob.

Every so often you might see people pressure a flank that could give and lead the team to victory, that'd be cool.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Turboflex on May 09, 2012, 05:39:43 pm
I see a lot of people saying that switching the system would 'cause kill-whoring and tactics would vanish. How would that change the game as it is currently?

Kill-whores will always be kill-whores regardless of the system you use.

Right now people kill whore for only vanity purposes, knowing it's hurting their team if they ignore good players and chase peasants, or TW. It would be A LOT worse if kill whoring was given direct cash/xp incentive ontop of current vanity purposes.

And honestly, I don't ever really see the use of "tactics" during battle. Unless by tactics you mean your team splitting up and running in different directions as they get slaughtered by the team that stuck together. Or 1 team camping a hill, or ruins. That's pretty much the extent of tactics we get around here.

That's still tactics, if a team loses twice in a row, and then someone screams a lot to go in another direction instead and it works. Cuz the objective is team victory so people are more receptive to things that can earn them a multi. While on a kill only system the only incentive is to cheese personal kills.

The multi system itself has just been bad for the community. It's caused a lot of bad attitudes and a lot of dickish behavior. As a x5 is DRAMATICALLY better than a x1, people will do every dickish thing possible to try to hold onto that x5. I've been in many games where a team that has had a string of x1's purposefully tried to draw by making sure the flags don't come up and then running away just so the other team will lose their x5. Hell, they planned it in team chat. It's all because of the multipliers that things like that happen. .

The devs fixed the flag issues. You can't do that kind of stuff to force out a draw, flags will appear now. Again tho, you are really reaching if you think making the focus on individual kills instead of team victory will decrease dickish behavior. All it will do is add all kinds of incentive for people to play selfishly and fuckover teammates for kills.

When you're on the other side of a clan-stack your chances of getting anything other than an x1 are pretty low, though you may luck out with an x2 every once in a while. If you're not on the clan-stack side, you'll be rolling that x1 for quite a while.

If we got rid of the multi system, leeching will be a thing of the past. If you are required to actually do something (like stay close to the fight and stay alive) it puts the onus on you to do something instead of your team. Admins will also not have to worry about leechers anymore and can focus their attention on people who are really being dicks.

The multi system is not a good system and never has been. It needs to go. The only good thing that came out of it is upkeep, which should definitely stay. But I think the rest of that failed experiment needs to go.

That's a sledgehammer solution to issues that can be fixed with minor tweaks. The clan stack is really a cav stack. Notice PRO doesn't do so hot on inf maps or on siege? Nerf Cav and that issue is neutered. Leeching can be cut down by moe aggressive adminning. I did propose some scoring system that can add more performance bonus tho, but a full  shift back to kill system would not have great results.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Vicious666 on May 09, 2012, 06:06:19 pm
OVER 1 YEAR AGO

i suggested to simply cut in half  "global xp-gold" and     put back old xp system,  so a way to keep both systems,    global is good, but cant be the only system since it not premiate at all the effort of the players.

so something like 500xp 25 gold every minute at x1

and 50 xp 1-3 gold for kill/shared kill/ kill around your zone.


Another thing i never liked, is  why if i sourvive and dress with very high cost stuff, at end of a long round of battle, i have bigger % of pay upkeep , instead get a bonus?(imho ppl who survive and win the round should have a bonus )    ffs i am alive i maybe killed 10 ppl during the round and i pay all the price, while a stupid paesant afk at spawn, will get  the x5  exactly like me
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Lichen on May 09, 2012, 06:41:11 pm
Things I don't like about multi:

-promotes win at all costs mentality
-promotes rage directed at other players
-makes other players overly concerned with what others are doing, example: 'LEECH!, he not helping me get my multi, kick/ban poll!' etc.

But the biggest reason is:

-very frustrating since winning or losing is largely out of your control so you just have to hope you get lucky. Or you can take the lame route and use a banner of a good clan.








Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Beauchamp on May 09, 2012, 07:00:35 pm
this game has maybe the best xp system i've ever seen (at least from my point of view).  keep it like it is now.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Turboflex on May 09, 2012, 09:06:50 pm
Things I don't like about multi:

-promotes win at all costs mentality
-promotes rage directed at other players
-makes other players overly concerned with what others are doing, example: 'LEECH!, he not helping me get my multi, kick/ban poll!' etc.

As opposed to kill at all costs mentality? Raging at people who get your kills or get in your way?

But the biggest reason is:

-very frustrating since winning or losing is largely out of your control so you just have to hope you get lucky. Or you can take the lame route and use a banner of a good clan.

Completely untrue. If you perform well you've definitely done a part in helping your team and increasing the odds of a victory. Getting 5-10 kills/assist vs dieing right away certain makes a difference...
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Joker86 on May 09, 2012, 09:11:05 pm
Completely untrue. If you perform well you've definitely done a part in helping your team and increasing the odds of a victory. Getting 5-10 kills/assist vs dieing right away certain makes a difference...

Well, depends. On a full server I often see good players running with 23:2 and still being stuck in the losing team. Sure, without him they would have lost even harder, and if there was only one more player like him they could turn it to a victory, but again this is something out of the control of this 23:2 player.

I still think the standard battle mode in cRPG should be won by conquering flags, not by killing the enemy team. I think this would remove a lot of the bad behaviour we currently have on the servers.
Title: Re: Changing the XP/Gold system
Post by: Lichen on May 09, 2012, 09:32:30 pm
As opposed to kill at all costs mentality? Raging at people who get your kills or get in your way?
I would like to see xp and gold rewards based on your individual performance somehow.

If you perform well you've definitely done a part in helping your team and increasing the odds of a victory. Getting 5-10 kills/assist vs dieing right away certain makes a difference...
Of course but it's still is no guarantee of a multi. A player can do very well individually and yet still loses. Lot of effort with no reward. While a player can also do very bad or simply not even try much and luck out by being on the winning team.  Little effort big reward.