cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Zisa on March 18, 2011, 05:02:05 pm
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Sure, they add a dimension. Usually so a team can camp a roof, break the ladder, then use the 'I do not have to jump until I am last' bullshit. What happened to glitching inaccesible locations being considered bad form? This is different? Enough of the ladder clowns.
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no
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Sure, they add a dimension. Usually so a team can camp a roof, break the ladder, then use the 'I do not have to jump until I am last' bullshit. What happened to glitching inaccesible locations being considered bad form? This is different? Enough of the ladder clowns.
The abuse of a few doesn't justify the removal of an enjoyable game mechanic. Last I checked, players who did that were in a small minority.
Personally, I'm convinced that all these ladder threads are sprouting in the same manner as 'omg, nerf 2h spam'. I understand that the wonders of the ladder are a mystery to you, much like the marvels of blocking and timing are to others.
In short: l2playladder.
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Is nothing sacred anymore?
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The abuse of a few doesn't justify the removal of an enjoyable game mechanic. Last I checked, players who did that were in a small minority.
Personally, I'm convinced that all these ladder threads are sprouting in the same manner as 'omg, nerf 2h spam'. I understand that the wonders of the ladder are a mystery to you, much like the marvels of blocking and timing are to others.
In short: l2playladder.
eh? so 5 archers on an inaccessible roof is an enjoyable mechanic for you?
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eh? so 5 archers on an inaccessible roof is an enjoyable mechanic for you?
As someone who's hunted archers for a long time, I've never encountered 5 archers on a roof I couldn't access.
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As someone who's hunted archers for a long time, I've never encountered 5 archers on a roof I couldn't access.
right. Don't be so full of shit please, and I do not want to hear bring your own ladder either.
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right. Don't be so full of shit please, and I do not want to hear bring your own ladder either.
I could say the same, so stop being a whiny princess. :P
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right. Don't be so full of shit please, and I do not want to hear bring your own ladder either.
why dont you just throw axes at them like the skillful thrower you are
shouldnt be too hard
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whiny princess... nice straw guy.
Look, I have nothing against people who want to be the unsung heroes by playing a support engineer - I hate:
5 archers on roof, break own ladder, stupid rule lets them stay up till one left.
5 archers on roof, enemy breaks ladder, EXPECTING archers do jump to their deaths.
Both are lame scenarios.
Axes are not magic you die weapons poophammer, though I am sure you can lobby to remove a threat to that HA style most of us got tired of in single player.
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yea remve it that is unbalanced deadly weapon!
you can bump someone or go on roof it is so scary....
and you don't need pay for repair!
remove it!
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yea remve it that is unbalanced deadly weapon!
you can bump someone or go on roof it is so scary....
and you don't need pay for repair!
remove it!
huh? Sorry, this appears as gibberish to me.
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huh? Sorry, this appears as gibberish to me.
I think he is saying that Ladders are a deadly weapon that can be used to exploit maps or kill people VIA ladderpulting, and that combined with the zero upkeep, are overpowered and thus need to be removed from the game.
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I think he is saying that Ladders are a deadly weapon that can be used to exploit maps or kill people VIA ladderpulting, and that combined with the zero upkeep, are overpowered and thus need to be removed from the game.
ladderpulting is so prepatch
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I think he is saying that Ladders are a deadly weapon that can be used to exploit maps or kill people VIA ladderpulting, and that combined with the zero upkeep, are overpowered and thus need to be removed from the game.
I was hoping HE would translate into english - I do not feel the need to translate reet speak.
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5 archers on roof, break own ladder, stupid rule lets them stay up till one left.
5 archers on roof, enemy breaks ladder, EXPECTING archers do jump to their deaths.
Both are lame scenarios.
These aren't situations that present themselves on a daily basis. In fact, I don't believe they're very common. It's like removing rocks in the game because people are team-killing with them.
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These aren't situations that present themselves on a daily basis. In fact, I don't believe they're very common. It's like removing rocks in the game because people are team-killing with them.
err, YES they do occur on a daily basis. Ignoring it does not make it untrue.
As far as the rocks comment, that is not a good comparison or attempt to deflect the issue.
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err, YES they do occur on a daily basis. Ignoring it does not make it untrue.
As far as the rocks comment, that is not a good comparison or attempt to deflect the issue.
It appears we see two very different sides of cRPG. What you are describing is abuse of a system. The same is true with team-killing. Abuse doesn't necessarily require a change in the system. It does require regular enforcement. The solution, then, is administration action.
There's no need to take away the fun for the rest of us because of a few bad eggs. Just kick people who do what you describe, and leave the rest.
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Sure, they add a dimension. Usually so a team can camp a roof, break the ladder, then use the 'I do not have to jump until I am last' bullshit. What happened to glitching inaccesible locations being considered bad form? This is different? Enough of the ladder clowns.
+1 ladder are not good, maybe small ladders but the big ones are crap
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It appears we see two very different sides of cRPG. What you are describing is abuse of a system. The same is true with team-killing. Abuse doesn't necessarily require a change in the system. It does require regular enforcement. The solution, then, is administration action.
There's no need to take away the fun for the rest of us because of a few bad eggs. Just kick people who do what you describe, and leave the rest.
Remove the possiblity of abuse and there is no need to enforce. Since the current 'rule' is: it is legal to camp an inaccessible roof unless you are 'the last guy' the continued bullshit by ladder users gets to take the fun from everybody else, then claim it is legal.
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I still think it's fine. Take this map we're both playing in currently. I don't see people not getting to the roof campers.
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aww to think a few days ago you were all hating on me for a stupid idea.
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I still think it's fine. Take this map we're both playing in currently. I don't see people not getting to the roof campers.
Because you do not NEED a ladder to get to the camp grounds.
When you come up with a good idea chasab I will heartily congratulate you.
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Remove the possiblity of abuse and there is no need to enforce. Since the current 'rule' is: it is legal to camp an inaccessible roof unless you are 'the last guy' the continued bullshit by ladder users gets to take the fun from everybody else, then claim it is legal.
Good point lets remove weapons so we cant teamkill with them.
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People are use ladders to get to places unreachable normally then destroy the ladders, It's super effective!
Just make laders indestructible. Problem solved
A new problem appears, People use ladders to block locations, Its super effective.
as long as there is something which people can use to exploit a game mechanic in a way not intended by the creators(of the game, or the map) People will find it, and people will exploit it, And those that do will say its "not a big deal". If map makers wanted people to be able to get on roofs, they would have put ladders in the map.
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People are use ladders to get to places unreachable normally then destroy the ladders, It's super effective!
Just make laders indestructible. Problem solved
A new problem appears, People use ladders to block locations, Its super effective.
as long as there is something which people can use to exploit a game mechanic in a way not intended by the creators(of the game, or the map) People will find it, and people will exploit it, And those that do will say its "not a big deal". If map makers wanted people to be able to get on roofs, they would have put ladders in the map.
If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.
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If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.
Which we can agree also sucks.
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If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.
Nope, because most maps where made for native and noone thought about having deployable ladders.
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If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.
Like i said, exploiting something that the map makers never intended to have happen.
Lets take for instance the valley map full of trees and bushes, you can strafe up the walls and get on top. You dont even need a ladder for that. Do you think that was intended? Nope, people saw you could do it, and now they do it. Anything to get an advantage.
How about the hill map where one team crosses a bridge and most of the fighting happens at the ruins of a wall, Every round someone gets on top of the tower and is the last person to die via suicide. I'm sure the map maker was thinking, Yeah someone will want to get up here and wait 5 minutes before suiciding, cause thats fun.
The same thing with ladders. A lot of maps have ladders in place that you can raise and lower. Clearly these are the roof's the creator wants and intended you to get on. But yeah lets make it HARDER on the map makers, and not ingenuity of people who like to exploit stuff.
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If admins can't be on enough or if they can't agree on how to enforce leeching/delay/ladder rules yes they should be removed from battle. I actually like the dynamic they can add to a battle map but latley things are just getting out of hand.
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It's not possible to make it so ladders can't be destroyed but you can lower them just like a normal ladder?
This would pretty much solve the campers that destroy the ladders so no one can attack them.
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yeah but that would mean a ladder spam all around the map, so don't know if that would be a good idea. Is it possible to make torches set fire to buildings maybe? Of course not as in really letting the buildings themselves burn, but sorta make people close to/on them take burn damage?
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If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.
If map makers wanted people on roofs, they would place the in-game ladders at those roof tops.
Hoisted on your own petard!
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I make maps and I put barriers on roofs I don't want to give access. I also leave 1-2 roofs open for archers. But those roofs always have a permanent access point. Because of the way people will exploit anything, I am also forced to put barriers around the entire map as well as a ceiling to prevent ladders to heaven.
If ladders are not removed, the people in charge of putting maps on servers should reject all maps without these precautions and retro-fit old maps to meet this criteria. I'd even volunteer to do that shit because I hate ladder campers so much. If you see a problem on one of my maps, please let me know so I can patch it up. Heavy laggy forest map, bloody/smokey/fire battlefield, and two keeps over a river with rope bridges connecting are mine.
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No.
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You can't take ladders out, archers do need to be on the roof because they can't defend well in melee. Not everything in this game should be for 2h crossbow or lancers.
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You can't take ladders out, archers do need to be on the roof because they can't defend well in melee.
No.
2hers require 1 wpf to be used efficiently so your can't melee comment is full of shit.
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Imho ladders are very good to have in the game to spice things up and they arent abused too often. If archers are camping on roofs, either bring ur own ladder or pull out ur xbow or throwing weapons. Shields also offer protection from arrows/bolts until the kick votes force them off the roof. The community usually gives very negative vibes to the roof campers in game and I mostly carry a small ladder to sneakily get behind them.
Ladders for President xD
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If admins can't be on enough or if they can't agree on how to enforce leeching/delay/ladder rules yes they should be removed from battle. I actually like the dynamic they can add to a battle map but latley things are just getting out of hand.
I think this is the crux of the issue for me. Right now enforcement is hard to pin down. I mean, the rule is that you can't stay there if you are the last one, but then we get into this issue of enemy teams breaking ladders to force the come-down (which seems up in the air based on another thread where someone got kicked for doing that) and a bunch of constructed rules to try to enforce this issue. Where do you draw the line between inaccessible and just really really hard to access? For example if you can get to a place easily with a ladder but it requires lots of rooftop hopping from someone who knows a lot about a map, what happens if the ladder is destroyed? I'll tell you what, it will be dependent on the current online admin's knowledge of the map, and I'd bet that not all admins will know every map's nook and cranny and be able to make uniform decisions.
I agree that ladders can add a dimension to maps, but unless the rules around them can get hammered down they seem ripe for abuse.
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most rooftops are still campable without player ladders
infact player ladders make it easier to get to campers generally.