remove ladders from battle

[Kalam]

5 archers on roof, break own ladder, stupid rule lets them stay up till one left.
5 archers on roof, enemy breaks ladder, EXPECTING archers do jump to their deaths.

Both are lame scenarios.

These aren't situations that present themselves on a daily basis. In fact, I don't believe they're very common. It's like removing rocks in the game because people are team-killing with them.

[Zisa]

These aren't situations that present themselves on a daily basis. In fact, I don't believe they're very common. It's like removing rocks in the game because people are team-killing with them.

err, YES they do occur on a daily basis. Ignoring it does not make it untrue.

As far as the rocks comment, that is not a good comparison or attempt to deflect the issue.

[Kalam]

err, YES they do occur on a daily basis. Ignoring it does not make it untrue.

As far as the rocks comment, that is not a good comparison or attempt to deflect the issue.

It appears we see two very different sides of cRPG. What you are describing is abuse of a system. The same is true with team-killing. Abuse doesn't necessarily require a change in the system. It does require regular enforcement. The solution, then, is administration action.

There's no need to take away the fun for the rest of us because of a few bad eggs. Just kick people who do what you describe, and leave the rest.

[Native_ATS]

Sure, they add a dimension. Usually so a team can camp a roof, break the ladder, then use the 'I do not have to jump until I am last' bullshit. What happened to glitching inaccesible locations being considered bad form? This is different? Enough of the ladder clowns.

+1 ladder are not good, maybe small ladders but the big ones are crap

[Zisa]

It appears we see two very different sides of cRPG. What you are describing is abuse of a system. The same is true with team-killing. Abuse doesn't necessarily require a change in the system. It does require regular enforcement. The solution, then, is administration action.

There's no need to take away the fun for the rest of us because of a few bad eggs. Just kick people who do what you describe, and leave the rest.

Remove the possiblity of abuse and there is no need to enforce. Since the current 'rule' is: it is legal to camp an inaccessible roof unless you are 'the last guy' the continued bullshit by ladder users gets to take the fun from everybody else, then claim it is legal.

[Kalam]

I still think it's fine. Take this map we're both playing in currently. I don't see people not getting to the roof campers.

[Chasab]

aww to think a few days ago you were all hating on me for a stupid idea.

[Zisa]

I still think it's fine. Take this map we're both playing in currently. I don't see people not getting to the roof campers.

Because you do not NEED a ladder to get to the camp  grounds.

When you come up with a good idea chasab I will heartily congratulate you.

[POOPHAMMER]

Remove the possiblity of abuse and there is no need to enforce. Since the current 'rule' is: it is legal to camp an inaccessible roof unless you are 'the last guy' the continued bullshit by ladder users gets to take the fun from everybody else, then claim it is legal.

Good point lets remove weapons so we cant teamkill with them.

[Chasab]

People are use ladders to get to places unreachable normally then destroy the ladders, It's super effective!

Just make laders indestructible. Problem solved


A new problem appears, People use ladders to block locations, Its super effective.


as long as there is something which people can use to exploit a game mechanic in a way not intended by the creators(of the game, or the map) People will find it, and people will exploit it, And those that do will say its "not a big deal". If map makers wanted people to be able to get on roofs, they would have put ladders in the map.

[Kalam]

People are use ladders to get to places unreachable normally then destroy the ladders, It's super effective!

Just make laders indestructible. Problem solved


A new problem appears, People use ladders to block locations, Its super effective.


as long as there is something which people can use to exploit a game mechanic in a way not intended by the creators(of the game, or the map) People will find it, and people will exploit it, And those that do will say its "not a big deal". If map makers wanted people to be able to get on roofs, they would have put ladders in the map.

If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.

[Zisa]

If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.

Which we can agree also sucks.

[EponiCo]

If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.

Nope, because most maps where made for native and noone thought about having deployable ladders.

[Chasab]

If map makers don't want people on roofs, they'd put invisible walls on them.

Like i said, exploiting something that the map makers never intended to have happen.

Lets take for instance the valley map full of trees and bushes, you can strafe up the walls and get on top. You dont even need a ladder for that. Do you think that was intended? Nope, people saw you could do it, and now they do it. Anything to get an advantage.

How about the hill map where one team crosses a bridge and most of the fighting happens at the ruins of a wall, Every round someone gets on top of the tower and is the last person to die via suicide. I'm sure the map maker was thinking, Yeah someone will want to get up here and wait 5 minutes before suiciding, cause thats fun.

The same thing with ladders. A lot of maps have ladders in place that you can raise and lower. Clearly these are the roof's the creator wants and intended you to get on. But yeah lets make it HARDER on the map makers, and not ingenuity of people who like to exploit stuff.

[Felagunda]

If admins can't be on enough or if they can't agree on how to enforce leeching/delay/ladder rules yes they should be removed  from battle.  I actually like the dynamic they can add to a battle map but latley things are just getting out of hand.