cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Diomedes on March 16, 2011, 10:10:38 pm

Title: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Diomedes on March 16, 2011, 10:10:38 pm
For the Japanese enthusiasts out there I propose we add the naginata to our list of cRPG polearms.  It was a common weapon for Samurai to use and is still practiced for sport today.  The size of actual naginata depend on the user, usually being a bit taller than the wielder.  Mostly used as an anti-katana weapon, the naginata is best used for keeping opponents at bay and for having an exceptionally flexible defensive technique.  Traditionally, samurai-class women would train with the weapon and use it to protect their homes and families while their husbands went off to war.  If you google the naginata you'll get a lot of peculiar forms of it, as it is quite a diverse weapon.  The weapon is most similar to a cRPG "hafted blade."

Features:
- very quick with a powerful cut if it hits semi-exposed flesh
- the staff part of the weapon is made from hardwood.  This is in contrast to other flimsier-type bamboo polearms which are easier to mass-produce.  The staff is hard enough that, when used effectively, it can trip very heavy/armoured standing opponents.
- both ends are used actively, though the blade is always the killing end
- to be used effectively the naginata-warrior requires some space to move and retreat.  Many of the most deadly strikes are predicated on having an aggressive opponent.
- the weapon is very rarely used to stab

(click to show/hide)

Here's a video of it being done for sport today (it's a bit odd to watch, but try to look at their stances and how fast they move): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8J_IkuUbak


It's a cool weapon.  I tried it as a martial art for a while and it was quite fun and interesting to see how flexible the style is.  It's quite similar to the hafted blade and it may not be worth skinning and implementing if people don't like the difference.  My hope, even if people don't want it as a new weapon, is that a naginata could replace the rather boring looking hafted blade model. 

NOTES:
- Though I've some experience with it I'm a far cry from having the expertise I'm sure some of the Shogunate people have.  If you have very detailed questions they'd probably be better at answering them than me. 
- The weapon is also goes by the name "najinta."
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Welcome_To_Hell on March 16, 2011, 10:17:40 pm
Hafted blade is pretty much Naginata.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Sammael on March 16, 2011, 11:14:04 pm
I have to agree, I think this niche is already fulfilled with the hafted blade.

Edit: Read the rest of the post  :oops: I'd fully support a re-texturing to give it a more Japanese style.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Grey on March 16, 2011, 11:22:42 pm
Yah I have always thought the hafted blade WAS a naginata....Its used in native by the eastern kingdoms (Khanate), and I thought everyone just kind of took it as read that Hafted Blade IS the only bladed polearm for ninja and samurai oriented characters.....Would love to see fancy skins on it tho....
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Huey Newton on March 16, 2011, 11:39:28 pm
gorath already made one but it was lost in the flood of atlanits...
we could make another one i suppose
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Patricia on March 17, 2011, 01:31:04 am
Long hafted blade looks like a butter knife on a stick while the Naginata looks like a katana on a stick, though I think LHB is pretty much a naginata, just with a different model, I couldn't see how we could make a unique naginata with unique stats with the LHB around.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: AdNecrias on March 17, 2011, 03:29:25 am
Long hafted blade looks like a butter knife on a stick while the Naginata looks like a katana on a stick, though I think LHB is pretty much a naginata, just with a different model, I couldn't see how we could make a unique naginata with unique stats with the LHB around.

All the khergit weapons you've got ingame are Mongol. Even China and Korea used different gear, and as you'd imagine Japan differs a bit from even these last two.
A Naginata would look like a straight katana with a ridicously stretched hilt. Would probably be slightly longer and, specially following the katana trend in cRPG have a faster speed, rather low cut damage and near non existing thrust damage. 'course in reality it was used as a thrusting weapon on horse but why make it differ from the other japanese gear... we wouldn't want ninjas to have an anti-armour weapon.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Diomedes on March 17, 2011, 03:41:17 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-b6QeDRRsk

Watch it on highest res and fullscreen.  The Total War crew used limited animations but it's a nice watch regardless.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Patricia on March 17, 2011, 04:21:29 am
All the khergit weapons you've got ingame are Mongol. Even China and Korea used different gear, and as you'd imagine Japan differs a bit from even these last two.
A Naginata would look like a straight katana with a ridicously stretched hilt. Would probably be slightly longer and, specially following the katana trend in cRPG have a faster speed, rather low cut damage and near non existing thrust damage. 'course in reality it was used as a thrusting weapon on horse but why make it differ from the other japanese gear... we wouldn't want ninjas to have an anti-armour weapon.

But I don't want a faster LHB with even more backpedal spamming capability :(
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Diomedes on March 17, 2011, 04:57:51 am
If it were to be a new model it would likely not have [lol]stab.  The question then is choosing amongst speed, length, and damage. 
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Siiem on March 17, 2011, 07:21:06 am
Katanas, No Dachi, Waksiaskaksakisishzi, hafted blades, that studded club thingy and you managed to whine yourself into 2 new armours aswell... When the flying fuck is enough enough?
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Ujin on March 17, 2011, 08:06:25 am
Katanas, No Dachi, Waksiaskaksakisishzi, hafted blades, that studded club thingy and you managed to whine yourself into 2 new armours aswell... When the flying fuck is enough enough?
I  ask this question  myself from time to time while reading your messages Sieem.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Vibe on March 17, 2011, 08:12:59 am
Please add a shepherd's cane as a weapon.
And a lollipop.

More power to the peasants!
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: LordRichrich on March 17, 2011, 08:59:45 am
Katanas, No Dachi, Waksiaskaksakisishzi, hafted blades, that studded club thingy and you managed to whine yourself into 2 new armours aswell... When the flying fuck is enough enough?
+1
I will only support Ninja/Eastern/Oriental gear when you bloody clans start playing by your bloody equipment gear.
Take Georges for example. He's a Shogunate or something yet runs round in western plate and a giant 2h
Many "ninjas" use the llamaer shit with staright swords. What's the point of being in these Ninja clans if you're not gonna use the gear we have for it in the mod?
And then there's the bloody Western Knights that use the Nodachi and stuff.
Pointless
I wish to be a game admin. I will kick people for having stupid equipment layouts. I AM going to be the fashion god of cRPG!
No you MUST wear leg armours, ffs it looks stupid.
The hand armour you wear MUST match your body armour (pretty easy, though making some black leather gloves would please the ninjas I imagine)
No armour a different culture to weaponry
Hm, no different armour styles (so body armour and head armour different)
It's really simple.
When I see someone who looks stupid it makes me mad. Very very mad.
And sometimes they might be on my team. Sometimes I accidently hit them. Accidently
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: MrExxc on March 17, 2011, 10:00:12 am
+1
I will only support Ninja/Eastern/Oriental gear when you bloody clans start playing by your bloody equipment gear.
Take Georges for example. He's a Shogunate or something yet runs round in western plate and a giant 2h
Many "ninjas" use the llamaer shit with staright swords. What's the point of being in these Ninja clans if you're not gonna use the gear we have for it in the mod?
And then there's the bloody Western Knights that use the Nodachi and stuff.
Pointless
I wish to be a game admin. I will kick people for having stupid equipment layouts. I AM going to be the fashion god of cRPG!
No you MUST wear leg armours, ffs it looks stupid.
The hand armour you wear MUST match your body armour (pretty easy, though making some black leather gloves would please the ninjas I imagine)
No armour a different culture to weaponry
Hm, no different armour styles (so body armour and head armour different)
It's really simple.
When I see someone who looks stupid it makes me mad. Very very mad.
And sometimes they might be on my team. Sometimes I accidently hit them. Accidently

Dude, I can not agree with you, if the shoguns or ninja's don't have any problem with it in their board, then why the hell can't they wear what they want now and then? Maybe Georges has an RP that he went on a crusade and brought back western gear :D
I do hate when people have multicultural outfits, because it just doesn't look that nice in game, but still no reason to be nazying about it.
--------------------------
I'm personally not to much into the eastern culture and stuff, but even if I like some ideas, I really don't feel like this one is particularly needed. Some other weapon or gear suggestions seem more relevant to my eyes, replace or add the strange armor layouts first, then we'll see. (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1063.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1063.0.html))
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Bjarky on March 17, 2011, 11:06:17 am
georges is a spacemarine, just so u guys know  :wink:
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: taimic on March 17, 2011, 04:14:48 pm
We Weeabos actually did something to get our gear in game, we didn't just cry that we want armor and bagged someone to make it.
Why do you complain about getting new armors, no matter of which kind it still improves the game we all like to play.
So if you think there shouldn't be that much Asian gear go make some more European!
For instance a Landsknecht armor that would make someone very happy.

People that prefer European armor can still wear it, and people that would like Asian armor would be happy to have more. i don't see the problem.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Captain_Georges on March 17, 2011, 06:19:20 pm

Take Georges for example. He's a Shogunate or something yet runs round in western plate and a giant 2h


dun give a fuk
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Dez Nutz on March 17, 2011, 06:39:43 pm
some ppl need to pull there head from there ass.. more weapons is always better for the game. and the long halfted blade is crap.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Havoco on March 18, 2011, 02:59:21 am
I knew this thread was influenced by shogun 2.....
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Seawied on March 18, 2011, 08:34:10 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-b6QeDRRsk

Watch it on highest res and fullscreen.  The Total War crew used limited animations but it's a nice watch regardless.

Due to the limitations of Japanese steel, Naginatas with a blade that long/thick would be quite rare. They pretty cool in-game though.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Ujio on March 19, 2011, 10:01:02 pm
some ppl need to pull there head from there ass.. more weapons is always better for the game. and the long halfted blade is crap.
Totally agree. Naginata would be Brilliant but apparently 3 Japanese weapons is alot, especially next to the countless western weapons. 1 more would be overkill
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Siiem on March 19, 2011, 10:04:42 pm
Totally agree. Naginata would be Brilliant but apparently 3 Japanese weapons is alot, especially next to the countless western weapons. 1 more would be overkill

Especially considering 3 is 3 too many.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Ujio on March 19, 2011, 10:18:52 pm
Nice valid Argument. Just what I'd expect from a Knight nut hugger
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Make My Day on March 21, 2011, 05:07:16 pm
Hi.

I heard that you will add naginata if  there will be a model. I made it, so can you see? It doesn't has got textures yet. You want this version of naginata?

Link: http://i52.tinypic.com/23tldw7.jpg

Or maybe try to make some more "normal"? Without spikes on a blade. What do you think?

Redgards,
Make My Day
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Diomedes on March 21, 2011, 06:16:32 pm
Awesome model Mike!  I'd prefer it to be a tad longer but it looks great besides.  If we assume it to be a unique model then it would likely need its own niche without completely negating similar weapons.  So:

Quote
weight 3
requirement 9
spd rtng 94
weapon length 145
swing damage 38, cut
thrust damage 18 pierc

- can swing from a horse
- penalty with shield


Certainly not a weapon for everyone but a good option nonetheless.  What do polearm users think?
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Torp on March 21, 2011, 07:09:29 pm
i like it :)

i would like the option to respec heirlooms if we get this one
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on March 21, 2011, 07:29:33 pm
thi is NO japanese medieval fighting game! go play any samurai mod and stop keeping posting "new polearm: naginatawhatevar" !
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Torp on March 21, 2011, 07:33:12 pm
thi is NO japanese medieval fighting game! go play any samurai mod and stop keeping posting "new polearm: naginatawhatevar" !

this is not from any specific part of the world (yes, calradia, lol), so why should we not have something eastern?
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Make My Day on March 21, 2011, 09:15:54 pm
Adding textured version.

http://i55.tinypic.com/a0w6l1.jpg

What do you think about it? What to change? I made it longer also.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on March 21, 2011, 09:21:49 pm
because its far asian!? calradia clearly reflects eastern/western/nordic europe and the mediterrranian islamic part (sarranids) during the 13th century (in native)

chadz should never have started implementing any asian or or what ever staff...u cant always put more and more stuff from other mods. if u want play japanese medieval play shogun mod!
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Make My Day on March 21, 2011, 09:24:46 pm
If you write multiplayer scripts for Woyo and me like in crpg and ppl will like it - why not.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Laufknoten on March 21, 2011, 09:52:43 pm
Katanas, No Dachi, Waksiaskaksakisishzi, hafted blades, that studded club thingy and you managed to whine yourself into 2 new armours aswell... When the flying fuck is enough enough?
The studded warclub is an eastern-my old friend weapon???
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Diomedes on March 21, 2011, 10:50:37 pm
Adding textured version.

http://i55.tinypic.com/a0w6l1.jpg

What do you think about it? What to change? I made it longer also.

That's really beautiful sir.  Great work!

The studded warclub is an eastern-my old friend weapon???

Go back to 4chan.
because its far asian!? calradia clearly reflects eastern/western/nordic europe and the mediterrranian islamic part (sarranids) during the 13th century (in native)

chadz should never have started implementing any asian or or what ever staff...u cant always put more and more stuff from other mods. if u want play japanese medieval play shogun mod!

Or we could just insert the gear into cRPG.  If it's not OP and you don't have to wear it then there's no reason to deprive other people of their own opportunity to roleplay.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on March 21, 2011, 11:02:12 pm
hafted blade.....but What would be cool.......


OMI YARI, fuckin sex of a cav weapon. A stab and slash cav polearm.

http://www.websters-dictionary-online.org/images/wiki/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Yari-p1000609.jpg/180px-Yari-p1000609.jpg
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Ujin on March 22, 2011, 10:49:34 am
Adding textured version.

http://i55.tinypic.com/a0w6l1.jpg

What do you think about it? What to change? I made it longer also.
Looks really great but imho would look better without the spikes, it's a bit over the top . ANyways, thank you very much for doing this ! =)
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Vexus on March 22, 2011, 12:59:52 pm
This should just be a retexture of the long hafted blade imo (Maybe also change it's name to naginata?)
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: MouthnHoof on March 22, 2011, 02:00:53 pm
This should just be a retexture of the long hafted blade imo (Maybe also change it's name to naginata?)
There were long sword-like blades on sticks in other cultures, including European. The Partisan & the Swedish swordstaff comes to mind and the Viking hewing spear, though these likely had a two edged symmetric  blades.

Check out the top line. I'd love to see the 2nd-3rd on the right instead of the Asian version.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Diomedes on March 22, 2011, 02:21:57 pm
"The Asian version" has its own martial art form.  They're superficially similar weapons but very distinct in their use.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Vexus on March 22, 2011, 02:35:34 pm
There were long sword-like blades on sticks in other cultures, including European. The Partisan & the Swedish swordstaff comes to mind and the Viking hewing spear, though these likely had a two edged symmetric  blades.

Check out the top line. I'd love to see the 2nd-3rd on the right instead of the Asian version.


True but the one make my day did looks like a longer version of the hafted blade:

http://i55.tinypic.com/a0w6l1.jpg
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Torp on March 22, 2011, 02:40:19 pm
Looks really great but imho would look better without the spikes, it's a bit over the top . ANyways, thank you very much for doing this ! =)

agreed
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Make My Day on March 22, 2011, 05:38:58 pm
As you wish. Retextured long hafted blade with added tsuba.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2vcx55g.jpg
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Torp on March 22, 2011, 07:57:37 pm
As you wish. Retextured long hafted blade with added tsuba.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2vcx55g.jpg

love this!
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Diomedes on March 22, 2011, 08:41:38 pm
As you wish. Retextured long hafted blade with added tsuba.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2vcx55g.jpg

Love it!  Though, I'd prefer if to have a unique historical weapon rather than a re-skinned "long hafted blade." 

How are other people feeling on the re-skin vs distinct weapon question?
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Make My Day on March 22, 2011, 08:45:47 pm
It's not a problem for me makin third version of naginata. So if people will want to create anotherone - I'll do it.
Title: Re: New Polearm: Naginata
Post by: Belmont on March 22, 2011, 08:59:47 pm
It's not a problem for me makin third version of naginata. So if people will want to create anotherone - I'll do it.

What Ujin meant is that you should change the blade on the Naginata to something like this

(click to show/hide)

instead of what you have now.

(click to show/hide)

I know I'm asking for too much but I also would love to have a Yari in a similar style to this one

(click to show/hide)

Thank you for taking your time to model!