cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: callahan9119 on April 11, 2012, 09:25:04 pm
Title: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 11, 2012, 09:25:04 pm
After messing around with a few characters, I'm leaning towards making a hoplite type character...spear/shield with medium armor. What is a good pole to use in combination with a shield? I'm not going for the most kills or the baddest dude in Calradia award, I'm hoping he is more of a support guy who can keep enemies busy so all those crazy bastards swinging two-handers can finish them and so I can stab horses to death. A pole that can also be swung well 2 handed would be good too...just in case.
Build ideas would be great too, I'm totally lost when it comes to planning this stuff.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Vexus on April 11, 2012, 09:28:39 pm
Fauchard, Military Scythe, Red Tassel Spear or War Spear.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 11, 2012, 09:32:43 pm
Thanks, how many points do you think I should put into shield? I don't wanna go overboard but I wanna get at least a useful amount.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: ArchonAlarion on April 11, 2012, 09:32:49 pm
Ashwood pike - Range, but unsheathable
Battlefork - Best thrust damage, good if your shield breaks and looks cool
Warspear - Speed
Red Tassel - better seed than warspear, but less damage
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Digglez on April 11, 2012, 09:34:32 pm
as mentioned above, warspear/redtassel. anything shorter and you are asking to get stabbed by 2h swords and lanced since you do not have long enough range
light lance and ashwood pike are also pretty good hoplite weapons. Light lance is on par with ashwood at half the price.
Best advice I can give a hoplite, is only use your shield when its absolutely needed. Use 2h's unless you are taking ranged fire or about to get surrounded. 30% dmg penalt means you wont be contributing much other than stunning people.
GUGNIR SPEARMAN: like a wall of icicle daggers, keeping the enemy at bay until the time to strike is right (click to show/hide) Strength: 15 Agility: 21 Hit points: 60 Skills to attributes: 2 Ironflesh: 5 Power Strike: 5 Shield: 5 Athletics: 7 Weapon Master: 7 Polearm: 164
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Vexus on April 11, 2012, 09:37:06 pm
I would say 5-6 in shield.
Why high you might ask? There are many 2h people true, many of these people attack mindlessly without caring who is near them and having more shield skill will deal less damage to the shield.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 11, 2012, 09:39:47 pm
Hey diggles, is your more metal mod working? I tried the files you uploaded a month ago, but I get no sounds.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Grumbs on April 11, 2012, 09:39:57 pm
Quite a few options, but I'd go with War Spear if you must have side swings, Ashwood pike if not. You do less damage and are slower when you use the spear in 1 hand (with shield) but you gain some range and are safer. Consider a Long Spear (no shield) too, you can stay safe and poke from range. Stab horses in the head to make them rear
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 12:18:18 am
Are pikes and other 200+ reach poles to large to use with a shield? Money is precious to me atm, so I can't really experiment.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 12, 2012, 12:30:29 am
Bamboo spear is the longest you can use a shield with (but can't be sheathed), Awlpike is no longer an option (was removed, thankfully), and nothing else worth mentioning can be sued with a shield (certainly not pikes or long spears).
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Kafein on April 12, 2012, 12:31:11 am
Are pikes and other 200+ reach poles to large to use with a shield? Money is precious to me atm, so I can't really experiment.
You can only use : spear war spear bamboo spear (ofc :o ) red tassel lances fauchard scythe forks staves ashwood pike
with a shield.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 12:35:58 am
Why does everyone have that emo chick as their avatar?
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Digglez on April 12, 2012, 12:58:11 am
while bamboo is the longest you can use with shield (200 reach) it will also do practically no damage and bounce and do nothing at all a large part of the time.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Vexus on April 12, 2012, 01:00:45 am
They aren't sheathable else I would probably choose the lance if I wanted a spear with shield that is long. (Plus it has 30 pierce :) )
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 01:21:41 am
This game is really starting to depress me. 37 deaths, no kills. Granted I'm still using the pitchfork and beginning armor because I'm saving for the light lance...but still. Not even a lucky shot on a wounded guy. I just got enough for the lance and a decent chest piece, so I hope things turn around.
Should I get a shorter spear then the lance...do longer weapons make less impactful blows? Wondering if I should just get a long ass pike and forget the shield.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Vexus on April 12, 2012, 01:28:55 am
Ask this generous men some gold he can help you :P
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 01:35:25 am
Oh wow, Cool.
You got advice? Should I just say screw the shield and get a long ass pike? I think the long spears just tickle people when I have a shield on...or maybe I need a shorter spear with the shield...
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Torben on April 12, 2012, 01:44:51 am
tears and kafein posting consecutively should get an epileptic shock warning sign applied.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Vexus on April 12, 2012, 01:52:23 am
Before you screw things up, what's your current level and specially your PS (Power Strike).
I retired on my alt and currently have only 12 strength with 4 PS, I manage to get some kills thanks to the thrust of my MW long eslavona which deals 31 pierce.
Peasent era is rough for new comers but don't give up! when your on your lvl 20s you'll start seeing some light.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 01:56:38 am
just got level 12
11 str 6 agi 93 pole 3 PS 3 IF 2 Shield
I'm still using the pitchfork...I'm afraid to spend my money. I spent a lot of time face down to get that cash :|
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Vexus on April 12, 2012, 02:02:30 am
Yea as I suspected your lowish level but with 12 strength you'll have more chance on killing with some damaging weapons.
When you get some money from morpher (Don't forget to put some stones on the market place from your crpg character page) you can try some new weapons.
1 suggestion I give you since your new, don't equip the heaviest armour for now wait till you have around 120 wpf or more because you currently have low agility and heavy armour lowers your WPF and movement speed making you an easy target if you don't know how to manual block and feint attacks.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 02:08:06 am
What about my urgent question? Go long ass pike and forget the shield, or stick it out because it will get better?
I don't know about any stones or market business...plus I have some problem where I can't make my guy the main...I deleted the other trash guy I had...I'm appealing it in tech support.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Vexus on April 12, 2012, 02:12:04 am
Like I said if you like shields you should stick up a little more with it while you gain some more strength for more power strike.
Going without a shield will have you need to manual block.
I can't tell you how you want to play it's up to you to go a route and see if you like it. Even if you started 2h, during the lower levels you would still struggle so think carefully before screwing things over by respeccing.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 02:14:55 am
I'll stick it out, thanks for the replies.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: RibaldRon on April 12, 2012, 02:32:39 am
Hoplite is tough to start with as you've concluded.
Most builds are the same way.
Definitely follow the advice, and only use the shield if you're taking heavy ranged fire, or possibly about to dehorse cav. You get longer range, but sacrifice damage and speed while using the shield.
Also, overheads are your friend, if you connect with a lightly armed player's head, the blunt damage is suprisingly good. :mrgreen:
You can also stab at the feet and face of players, this is helpful for a few reasons: Feet are usually lightly armored compared to the body, and the head has a damage multiplier. If aimed properly, these stabs will connect with the ground, or usually air, in the case the player dies before your hit lands, saving you from those annoying corpsethroughs.
Some maps are just MADE for a pike though, if it's just going to be a big infantry cluster#$^# and you're not trying to get chadztext with a more useful/less common polearm. So definitely learn to love em all.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 02:56:59 am
Well, I have the light lance and I I can't switch...any way to remove a dagger from the crpg inventory screen? I just want my spar and shield in the slots.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: [ptx] on April 12, 2012, 03:03:27 am
I made an STF hoplite alt, using an ashwood pike with shield, it is really good and fun, highly recommended! Works wonders, when supporting people :)
(click to show/hide)
Strength 21 Agility 18
One Handed 102 - Thought i'd use a 1h sword as a backup weapon, but don't have the gold for that yet, and just using the ashwood pike seems to work well enough anyway. Polearm 107
Power Strike 7 Shield 6 Athletics 6 Weapon Master 4
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 03:06:03 am
I have the light lance and I still suck...people get up in my face and I can't hit...I need to be more disciplined and keep the range..
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: [ptx] on April 12, 2012, 03:07:41 am
Range control is a good thing, but you should be able to stab them anyway, learn to spinstab.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: RibaldRon on April 12, 2012, 03:13:01 am
Right-click to remove items from slots.
You can also click on an empty space on the site for your default loadout.
Spin-stab: release your stab to the left/right of somebody, and then turn into them.
(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,11255.0.html)
E: oh yeah, you're pretty much going to have to accept that you're going to be facehugged to death, ESPECIALLY with the longer weapons. The PIKE for example has a large section close to your body that, basically, does not exist for the purposes of striking- so you can stab through teammates, and avoid enemies completely. Switching off of 1H/S for fighting those high AGI spammers is a must, you gotta cut down your range to deal with them.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Grumbs on April 12, 2012, 03:25:44 am
Only use the shield when you are in a group fight imo. If you are alone then put the shield away so you attack faster and can force the other guy to have to block more than 1 direction. Even if its just a weak overhead it can allow you to get another hit in after it. Until you get very efficient with spin stabs its hard to kill someone who's aware of you with just the stab. You want to make the hitbox for the attack appear without any obstruction in front of it, then swing the attack into the player. Its a very lethal attack though, maybe the fastest attack type when you get good at it
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 03:43:00 am
Too late now, I'm poor as shit and I'm stuck with the light lance...which I cant swicth, unless I'm an idiot.
Too broke to get another weapon.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Digglez on April 12, 2012, 04:01:39 am
pike is very hard to use, especially if you havent mastered the basics of spears yet. Longspear is quite a bit easier to start out with.
Stick with it, light lance is great learning weapon. Put shield on your back, if people get up in your face and you're uncomfortable, jump backwards and pull shield out. turtle up & wait for help.
also practice with warspear/ashwood on duel server for manual blocking and spinstabbing
things will get alot easier as you start adding more agility/athletics to your build.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 04:36:18 am
Can I sell or delete items I have?
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Zanze on April 12, 2012, 04:37:44 am
You can sell. But I get the hint you may be knew... ditch the concept of items = great glory. Skill does, and it takes time to get that. Be persistent and you will eventually start racking up kills. (I got 2 kills my first gen)
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 04:42:07 am
I just want to get this fecking peasant dagger out of my inventory, right clicking it in the crpg site/inventory just gives the the usual "save image as" etc bullshit.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Grumbs on April 12, 2012, 04:52:11 am
Left click it then scroll to the top, then click the empty line then save
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: callahan9119 on April 12, 2012, 04:56:12 am
Thank you friend, didn't see that blank line.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: HUtH on April 12, 2012, 12:32:36 pm
war spear or red tassel spear are great with shield when fighting as support... you have cover from shield and awesome range also because of shield and enough dmg to feel like a Leonidas :P Certainly my next build will be a hoplite.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Phew on April 12, 2012, 07:02:57 pm
Your Light Lance is as good as any other Hoplite option, so don't regret your purchase. They are all pretty fairly balanced between dmg/reach/speed. The Light Lance just emphasizes reach+dmg>speed, but your speed is terrible with any spear while you have your shield equipped.
The key as a Hoplite is to follow good players around. If enemies key on you, turtle up. If they key on your teammates, unequip the shield and poke away. It's pretty much the least effective class at getting actual kills, but your impact will be greater than the scoreboard shows. Every time you stun an enemy so a teammate can kill them, consider that a win.
If you wanted kills, you should have gone 2H.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: zagibu on April 12, 2012, 10:14:40 pm
Don't play a hoplite character when you are new. They are hard to play. You need excellent timing, patience, and reflexes (fall for 1 feint and you are dead on low level). Stop investing in shield and play a regular polearm dude with one of these weapons:
- Warspear - (Long) Hafted Blade - Military Scythe - any Poleaxe - any Long Axe - Glaive - Long Bardiche
If you continue your life as a hoplite, you will get frustrated and quit before you are level 30.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: SockpuppetSamurai on April 12, 2012, 11:16:11 pm
Like yourself, I am fairly new and leveling a hoplite character (currently level 27), and I still haven't found a spear that I am comfortable with. I've tried all of the spears, the ashwood pike, and the double sided lance but overall I've used the war spear the most.
I found the Ashwood pike's range to be too much for my playstyle. I kept failing at keeping people at the longer range and soon found the single attack direction a hindrance once I was able to drop my shield. On the flip side the shorter double sided lance (and the 150 range spears to an extent), allowed opponents to easily get in and "face-hug" me rendering my stab useless. Besides backpedaling the only option you have at this point is to switch to 2h which is impossible without getting hit when you are getting spammed by two-handers. I'm currently testing the shortened spear which is amazingly fast compared to the 95 speed warspear but has a much shorter range (120) and less of a punch. Next I'm going to try the battlefork, while it doesn't have the look or the speed that I want it's length looks ideal for me and the thrust and swing damage are both impressive.
What I have found: - Do not expect to get a lot of kills. This can be frustrating and the current scoring method often makes it embarrassing. - The spear thrust can easily be held off and rendered useless by your opponent holding a downblock while they close in on you. - The speed penalty from using a shield makes reacting to a dropped downblock in time to get a hit nearly impossible. (This is bad mechanics in my opinion). - Try to use your spear as a two-handed weapon as much as possible. This really does defeat the purpose of a hoplite character and requires you to learn manual blocking, but is the only option you have against opponents holding a downblock or spamming you with a stupid fast two-hander. - Get your shield skill up to 5 and use a huscarl or similar beefy shield. I found that far too often the weaker or less skill intensive shields were easily broken and then I became a pincushion. - As others have mentioned, you won't do well in 1vs1 situations with your shield unless you put enough points into one handed weapons to use them effectively. On that note, you are limited to using a 0 slot weapon or smaller shield since the huscarl and other heavier shields use 2 slots and the spears take up the remaining 2 slots. - Hoplite looking armor does not exist :( - Teamwork is needed to really make hoplites effective without this you're left in a "supporting" role which means that you wound dozens of players and others kill them or you steal kills from players who were probably doing fine on their own. On that thought, it would be great to have a scoring system that wasn't purely based on K/D ratio. Kill assist points like in BF3 where you get an amount of points equal to how much damage you did on an opponent would be great.
Final thought: Even though I would consider the Hoplite less effective and harder to play than other "classes" I am having the most fun so far. I often aid archers with my shield and pokey stick and participate in making shield walls that usually are not taken advantage of but it adds a little to the game.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: RibaldRon on April 13, 2012, 01:23:34 am
Yes, Polearms, especially hoplites, are support characters.
Long range, polestagger.. you help others get the kills.
2H characters run in and just swing like mad and get the glory. :P
I think it's a fun role. I have learned to hold my own 1:1 for a bit, I still get killed, usually, but I can make people work for the kill.. which I think is still contributing something! :mrgreen:
I am still not very good, but if you'd like I don't mind hopping on the duel server and helping you practice your block or whatever for a bit, that'll give you a little bit of free xp/gold ticks, and it'll be a good way to train without getting frustrated.
E: failing that, just keep in mind, a lot of what people will do is chamber you, you're using a slower and more predictable weapon - so hold your swings, and wait until they've already chambered. People underestimate you, and that's your biggest advantage. Watch for similar feints against you, that's typically how I end up dying.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Barry McGuigan on April 14, 2012, 11:54:19 am
I don't know why people always throw this class away as useless, I have 18/21 with 3 throw away points in shield and when i strap the kite shield on with a short spear the lol stabb commeth. The stab reach is soo short you will be jabbing them in the back of the neck ;). Of course it helps to be naked behind your shield for speed and while it takes maybe 7 hits to bring a str player down I've beaten a fair few faces In eu one one one.
The great thing about being a hoplite is your underestimated straight away all they do is spam which is easy enough to deal with, the one on ones just require good foot work and good kick timing. While it's possible to top boards like this I wouldn't recommend it by any stretch,war spear and shield is better even if you just equip the shield so you can get some extra reach on ladders when defending.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: zagibu on April 14, 2012, 02:03:13 pm
Nobody said the build is useless, but it's certainly not for a new player.
Title: Re: A good polearm to use with a shield?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 14, 2012, 08:37:21 pm