cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Christo on March 13, 2011, 08:17:07 pm

Title: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Christo on March 13, 2011, 08:17:07 pm
I had an idea today: We have polearms that have limited attack directions. Why don't we spice up 1h gameplay a bit, and add a weapon that can only stab? Should have the obvious stab-only as a disadvantage, but (okay, I know this isn't realistic, but it would be interesting to have) it should have increased pierce damage, or speed, or something like that.

I think it would bring some diversity into the 1h weapon arsenal, alternates are always nice.

What do you say?
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 13, 2011, 08:18:51 pm
Something like this may appear in the pirate patch coming out.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Diomedes on March 13, 2011, 08:45:54 pm
Something like this may appear in the pirate patch coming out.

I'm beginning to think that patch was designed just so people could write "pirate patch" with a straight face. 


Also, if you get the blood mod, Warband becomes rated ARRRRRRRRRRR
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 13, 2011, 09:45:28 pm
I'm beginning to think that patch was designed just so people could write "pirate patch" with a straight face. 


Also, if you get the blood mod, Warband becomes rated ARRRRRRRRRRR
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh I am far too easily amused, hehehe
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Heroin on March 14, 2011, 01:52:57 am
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh I am far too easily amused, hehehe

Don't feel bad, me too. lol  :lol:

While I back the idea of a rapier-style weapon in the mod, I'm not sure what it's practical application would be if it were thrust only. While it is true that rapiers were designed with the thrust in mind, most did have an edge, and could cut as well. I might be wrong here, but I think the only "rapiers" that didn't have an edge were the ones designed for sport or practice.

EDIT: So basically what I'm saying is, "Sure, make rapiers with some decent length, and respectable thrust damage. But give them some trivial slash damage too."
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Vexus on March 14, 2011, 02:28:54 am
Could always have swings in low damage blunt with high damage thrust in pierce if possible.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Kalam on March 14, 2011, 02:46:24 am
Could always have swings in low damage blunt with high damage thrust in pierce if possible.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Maira on March 14, 2011, 02:50:12 am
Could always have swings in low damage blunt with high damage thrust in pierce if possible.

I'm pretty sure it's possible, just like the Goedendag, swing damage 25 blunt / thrust damage 22 pierce

Calradian Fencing Guild ftw!  :D
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Heroin on March 14, 2011, 03:01:11 am
Could always have swings in low damage blunt with high damage thrust in pierce if possible.

Yeah, I considered this, too. Would be fine, imo. It would be cool if it was a longer, one-handed style weapon with penalty with shield.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Diomedes on March 14, 2011, 03:44:55 am
Perhaps it should mark a new weapon type.  A long pointy sword that can only stab when used with a shield but which can dual very effectively without a shield.  It's hard for me to articulate this normally so:

- a long and very pointy sword with low blunt/stun damage on the swing
- can only stab when used with a shield
- fairly fast (99/100?)
- fancy looking
- basically a weapon for very skilled blockers which: (1) isn't as damaging as a 2h (2) nor as good with a shield as 1h (3) isn't as long range as a hoplite's stabbing spear when used with a shield

Note: To make this fair it would need some tight balancing and probably a nerf on the weapon change/shield drawing speed



Ideas?  Impossible?  Silly?  It's late and I'm procrastinating writing an essay right now  :wink:
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Heroin on March 14, 2011, 04:18:38 am
Perhaps it should mark a new weapon type.  A long pointy sword that can only stab when used with a shield but which can dual very effectively without a shield.  It's hard for me to articulate this normally so:

- a long and very pointy sword with low blunt/stun damage on the swing
- can only stab when used with a shield
- fairly fast (99/100?)
- fancy looking
- basically a weapon for very skilled blockers which: (1) isn't as damaging as a 2h (2) nor as good with a shield as 1h (3) isn't as long range as a hoplite's stabbing spear when used with a shield

Note: To make this fair it would need some tight balancing and probably an nerf on the weapon change/shield drawing speed



Ideas?  Impossible?  Silly?  It's late and I'm procrastinating writing an essay right now  :wink:

I like those ideas.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on March 14, 2011, 08:31:15 am
I'd love a rapier, I'd have to make a Zorro alt. In any case, I'd prefer if it could only chamber, but I suppose that's too much to ask. Would be badass, though.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Grey on March 14, 2011, 09:12:22 am
Could always have swings in low damage blunt with high damage thrust in pierce if possible.

Was thinking this. But its gonna need to be like:

Range 99
Speed 102 (95 with shield, wants to be discouraging to use shield with this, unlike STUPID SIDE SWORD)
Swing 10 blunt dmg
Stab 35 pierce dmg
THIS WEAPON CANNOT BE USED TO BLOCK.

And much as I hate that tag, cause my chambering is definitly my weakest combat aspect, this would a weapon for very proficient duelists, a weapon for settling petty arguments on server by embarrasing your opponent, all things the daggers do now, and also mutual consent duels with this would be very intense, I can see up to tripchambering with these things.

Pirate patch is being delayed by some virus in the code, thought to be scurvy XD
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Dravic on March 14, 2011, 04:38:05 pm
Silly, sword with blunt dmg in this game... I know that you like to be "realistic", but blunt dmg > cut.

So I would like to have something like that:


weight 1.25
requirement 6
spd rtng 98
weapon length 100 (more or less, to discuss!)
swing damage 20, cut
thrust damage 31 pierce
Gen1=  99spd 21cut 33pierce
Gen2=  100spd 22cut 34pierce
Gen3= 101spd 23cut 35pierce
Penalty with shield

Should be like that.

Of course, it should be able to block!
And to prevent it from overpowering, either take possiblity to use it with shields/give penalty with shield. I suggest the second.


oh, and of course, it have to go with dagger buff, otherwise, they *daggers* would become MUCH more underpowered than now.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Vexus on March 14, 2011, 04:52:33 pm
I said blunt because some rapiers are cone shape (Not flat but spherical) meaning they don't cut thus blunt damage.

This depends on what model of a rapier is going to be used of course.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Christo on March 14, 2011, 05:03:03 pm
Perhaps it should mark a new weapon type.  A long pointy sword that can only stab when used with a shield but which can dual very effectively without a shield.  It's hard for me to articulate this normally so:

- a long and very pointy sword with low blunt/stun damage on the swing
- can only stab when used with a shield
- fairly fast (99/100?)
- fancy looking
- basically a weapon for very skilled blockers which: (1) isn't as damaging as a 2h (2) nor as good with a shield as 1h (3) isn't as long range as a hoplite's stabbing spear when used with a shield

Note: To make this fair it would need some tight balancing and probably a nerf on the weapon change/shield drawing speed



Ideas?  Impossible?  Silly?  It's late and I'm procrastinating writing an essay right now  :wink:

I like these ideas.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: jspook on March 14, 2011, 05:43:41 pm
You guys aren't talking about a rapier with that blunt damage.  You are talking about a fencing foil,  foils were used for dueling in later periods, and were much more sporting.  They are also blinding fast.

A rapier is always a flat bladed weapon.  Pretty much like the side sword.  And the last 9 inches of the blade is thin and razor sharp.  Its designed to cut tendons at the joints of you opponent.  No blunt damage on a rapier.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Diomedes on March 14, 2011, 06:22:15 pm
The issue with that is that it would be like an espada+side sword's bastard child; and we all know what that is.*  If it needs to be a foil I say so be it, innovation in 1h is tricky to balance - so any prototype ideas need to be initially non-dominating.










*666
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Tydeus on March 16, 2011, 03:11:26 am
A rapier is always a flat bladed weapon.  Pretty much like the side sword. And the last 9 inches of the blade is thin and razor sharp.  Its designed to cut tendons at the joints of you opponent.  No blunt damage on a rapier.
Meaning it has a slash. Give it everything except an overhead and I think this idea could turn out to be quite interesting.

Here's my take on the stats:
Cost: 11,000
weight .75
requirement 6
spd rtng 102
weapon length 110
swing damage 22, cut
thrust damage 34 pierce
Cannot be used with a shield

Tempered =  103spd 23cut 35pierce
Balanced =  104spd 24cut 36pierce
Masterwork = 106spd 25cut 37pierce

With the extreme light weight and use without a shield, you're going to get stunned constantly. This being the downside to a brutal thrust. I like the idea of there being a 1h that's meant to be used without a shield.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Diomedes on March 16, 2011, 03:16:46 am
No shield at all?  As far as I know the only weapons with that tag are ones which you actually couldn't lift or wield in your spare hand if you had a shield.  Perhaps allow shield but have it only capable of stabbing?


This sword would look great with pirate clothes and a fancy feathered hat.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Seawied on March 16, 2011, 04:58:30 am
There would be no logical reason to give a "cannot be used with a shield" tag. Despite what hollywood shows us, Rapiers were used with shields. Rapiers just showed up late in history (17th century) and was mostly a dueling weapon. You would most likely see them with a buckler. It was a self-defense weapon, not an army weapon.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Tydeus on March 16, 2011, 07:53:15 am
I've only ever heard of them being used with a buckler. But how do you get people to prefer the buckler rather than a huscarl when using the "rapier"?

The idea of only being able to only thrust if you equipped a shield works, albeit it seems like a slight cop-out.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Casimir on March 16, 2011, 12:11:03 pm
Espada eslavona is pretty good for playing in a rapier style. If you want a weapon for thrusting id say use that. A dedicated one would need alot of pierce to be particularly effective.
Title: Re: A stab only 1h sword (rapier)?
Post by: Heroin on March 16, 2011, 01:32:36 pm
There would be no logical reason to give a "cannot be used with a shield" tag. Despite what hollywood shows us, Rapiers were used with shields. Rapiers just showed up late in history (17th century) and was mostly a dueling weapon. You would most likely see them with a buckler. It was a self-defense weapon, not an army weapon.

I wasn't suggesting the "cannot use with shield" tag to make it realistic. I was suggesting only being able to thrust while using a shield, specifically because I knew rapiers were used with bucklers. The reasoning behind my thought that it should only be able to thrust is simple, and can be summed up in one word: Balance.

See, I think this weapon should have significantly more reach than the current 1h swords do, and to make up for that, I feel that it shouldn't be wholly effective when used with a shield. If they make a rapier that is 115-120 range, I don't think that it is necessary to also be 100% effective with a shield. My hope, should they take notice of this thread, is that the rapier becomes the go-to weapon choice for 1h duelists, to help put them on even footing with 2 handers when using this sword without a shield.