Hello People.
When i started to be interested in throwing, I came in this section to find a guide about throwing. i found one who was a bit out of date, so it was not much help. And as i played my throwing build, that i made as i was going, many people asked me about throwing, about my build etc...
So i wish to share what i know and my opinion about throwing to help any people in need.
I The message
I have seen, to my despair, tincans throwing jarids, people talking about a "message" but not taking any notice. So what is this message?
I cant recall exactly what it says, something like : "your weapon proficency in trhowing is to low to blablablablabla" in bright red at the bottom of your screen.
What does this mean? Bacisally it's a penality to save us form tincans thorwing some heavy weapons, if you see it, your effective wpf (so wpf invested in throwing) is too low for your amount of PT.
I get the impression but, i could be wrong, that the more you gone over the limit, the more you get screwed
I see 3 direct consequences:
-You don't get the message : everyone is happy, beautiful and nice
-you get the message but you can pick your ammo up again
-You get the message and you cant pick your ammo up again (FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU)
I believe that if your WPF is slightly to low it doesnt matter to much, i did some testing on EU3 where the damage output was the same and nearly even more when i had wpf slighlty lower then required then if i had the right WPF.
But there are penalities if you try to play smart with WPF, and there are many and you dont want to f*** with it.
Here are some i recall, there maybe more :
-Damage nerf
-accuracy nerf
-upkeep rape
-cant pick your ammo up
(im pretty sure theres something missing)
now i shall explain in the next section how to be master of your WPF
II Understanding WPF
Now, for WPF, this is very dependent of what you want to throw, if you want to be a pure thrower, a hybrid, the armor you want to wear (i had a set of lordly gear so i wished to wear it). And it all comes down to this :
Throw Level = 13 * Desired Effective Power Throw Level + Throwing Armor Weight
where
Throwing Armor Weight = head armor weight * 6 + torso armor weight * 2 + leg armor weight * 2 + hand armor weight * 8 - 10
"WTF? :shock: " might be your reaction to this. Let me explain!
Throwing is dependent of Two factors, your powerthrow and your armor!
The powerthrow factor
Throw Level = 13 * Desired Effective Power Throw Level
You must remember that it depend really on your powerthrow in your build and not the powerthrow of the weapon you want to throw! That means throwing some jarids with 5 powerthrow will be diffirent not only in damage, but in wpf, then throwing jarids with 6 pt! This is why it is important to plan your wpf in advance.
examples :
I want to throw fransiscas (require 2 pt), i have 2 pt in my build : 13*2 = 26 WPF
i want to throw fransiscas, but i want them to deal more damage, i get myself 6 PT : 13*6 = 78 wpf
I want to throw stones with 1 PT = 13 wpf
I want to knock people's brains out with my stones with 7 PT = 13 * 7 = 91 WPF
You can have a 10 PT build, but with 13 effective wpf, you will throw as if you had only 1 PT. So you lose 9 levels of PT.
Simple as that
The armor factor
The powerthrow factor was only the first part of the calculation, so if you want to throw naked you can take in account only the first part :P
Throwing Armor Weight = head armor weight * 6 + torso armor weight * 2 + leg armor weight * 2 + hand armor weight * 8 - 10
Pretty much simple, you take the weight of the head armor you whish to use and multiply it by 6, then take your body armor and multiply it by 2 etc...and then take off 10
You'll notice that the head armor and the hand armor is the most penalising so dont go to heavy on it!
I'll take my character as an example
(roman helmet with veil 2.1*6+ palace guard 10.8*2 + splintered greaves over mail 2.1*2 + mail gauntlets 0.5 *8)-10 =32.4 My armor "weighs" 32.4 wpf
I use 6 power throw i then require = 32.4 + 78 =110.4 so i need 111 WPF for throwing
There you go ! 8-)
III Build
Now for you build, all depend on what powerthrow you decide to have, if your a hybrid or not, if your a hybrid it's up to you to find your balance, but remember if you are making your build as you go and fancy spending an extra skill point in PT, you'll need more WPF in throwing!
I believe going pure thrower isnt the best of ideas because you have to be close to the battle, and at one point things will get dirty, so you need to be able to put up a fight, also you can run out quickly of stuff to throw really damn fast!
Here are some builds you can try out :
my suggestion :
Level 30
Strength : 21
Agility : 18
Ironflesh : 0
Power Strike : 4
Shield : 0
Athletics : 6
Riding : 0
Horse Archery : 0
Power Draw : 0
Power Throw : 7
Weapon Master : 6
Weapon proficiencies : 120 wpf in throwing 120wpf in poleamrs
Now this is a build i did because i wished to see if i could make the perfect hybrid, I went full strength for the 7 power throw then i developped my melee side of my build. This proved to be pretty good in melee and i was able to throw lances with a decent gear. I like to troll my enemies coming along with a poleaxe, they start backpeddaling, so i draw a lance out and read the terror in my enemies eyes. Although this has a pretty limited effectivity (low throwing ammo), it is very funny.
But the most important is that when i was equipped with 4 throwing lances, when it came to melee, using my lance in melee mode proved to make me as effective as any other meleer out there!
this is the suggestion of Slamz
My advice for hybrids:
Shielder = 18/18, PT 4
2H / polearm = 24/12, PT 4
Although you really can't go wrong with 18/18 in any case. The extra WM will give you more wpf to put into your melee weapon of choice.
More than PT 4 is too costly, in my opinion, unless you are going to go "pure thrower". I've tried a variety of hybrid builds and if you want good a good balance, stop at PT 4 and loom up some heavy throwing axes. That way you don't have to cough up so much wpf to use them (and pick them back up).
PT 5 is tempting because jarids are relatively common (and you can pick them up and throw them back at people) but it's a high price in wpf.
Here is Spawny's suggestion :
I've played a lot of throwing in the past, but have given up on it after a number of nerfs.
Throwing is better now, but I can't be bothered to pick it up again.
Pure throwing has always been my choice, but that's personal. A month or so ago I made an STF alt with heavy throwing axes (pure thrower) and that worked out nicely, but it was VERY useless when out of ammo and that tends to happen quite often when you're a pure thrower.
So, this build (note it's a level 31 build, making it that much better) is what I came up with for a hybrid:
Level 31 (8 892 403 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 56
Skills to attributes: 6
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 0
Athletics: 6
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 7
Weapon Master: 6
Polearm: 111*
Throwing: 130
*The polearm wpf can be swapped out for 1h or 2h, but since most high damage throwing weapons use polearm wpf in melee mode I picked this.
Pro's:
- Fast on your feet, as you will be wearing light armour to reduce the weight penalty as much as possible.
- Can use just about every polearm you can scavenge when you run out of stuff to throw
- Can use all throwing weapons, so it's possible to scavenge more ammo from other throwers
- High damage, making your hits actually hurt a bit
- Horse killer
- Can switch roles when you get bored of being a thrower. Just use one of the many useful polearms.
Con's:
- level 31 build
- No IF, so not that much IF (partially offset by the low armour. Low armour makes IF a bit useless)
- No shield, so weak vs ranged
Throwing gear:
Jarids/Spears/Javelins/Lances. Will all work well. Either bring a back up weapon or 1 throwing lance. The throwing lances are actually quite good in melee mode and 7 PS will make the stab hurt. On top of that, it's priceless to fight someone in melee, see them back peddle and then throw a lance in their face.
Note : If you compare my suggestion with Spawny's build suggestion you'll notice that they are the same except for one level difference. I come to beleive this is the perfect hybrid.
Throwing weapons
Now there are different throwing weapons, the most popular right now is the heavy throwing axe. Some are good, some are pretty useless. I'll mostly talk about the ones i have a bit of experience with.
The Suriken family In my opinion, Useless. I tried to take only shurikens for the lulz, knowing there is 8 per stack, I ended up with 32 shurikens :lol: ! Result?
I wounded one peasent. Not worth it. But I read somewhere Thomek uses them to harass archers. It is true when you come to think about it, that the shurikens are one of the most fastest throwing weapon there is and there are 8 of them per stack, so you could end up with 16 of them. And those are perfect to harass those pesky archers, trying to fire at you when you get close, or to stop them running away. Just spam them and most archers will lose their grip and fuck up.
The throwing axe There is no reason to use this weapon except if your build and wpf doesnt allow you to get it's older brother : the Heavy throwing axe
The Heavy throwing axe One of the best throwing weapons you can get. The best cut damage, perfect for hunting horses and mid armor enemies (and peasents). They have a slow missile speed so anticipation is the key. They will fall to the ground very fast so aiming high is the key, this also allows you in clusterfucks to toss your axes over your teamates and it will fall down on enemies. They are worth the investment in wpf and 4 skill points.
Jarids You are starting to invest in throwing and the first sacrifices are there, you cant wear super heavy equipment. But jarids are nasty beasts, they pierce nastily enemy armor, people will hate you! They have good accuracy and flight speed. not so good for killing horses but they do pretty well! Try to aim the enemy tincans!
throwing spears Lets face it, they have worse accuracy speed, damage everything etc...and cost 1 PT more! Why take these then? because you get one more spear per stack to throw!
throwing lance The king, insane damage, will take any tincan in 2hit in the body. Sadly it doesnt one hit anything except very lately armored foes or peasents. They make also really good melee weapons!
(weapons part still to be worked on)
Special thanks to :
- My patience
- Thing
- Slamz
- Spawny
Ps : I'll edit my thread, there is more to come! keep in touch! (im tired!)
Hmm you guys know the archer sidestep trick against shielders? Well I noticed it works with throwing weapons as well :mrgreen:
Basically you just keep your throwing weapon ready, wait for shielder to almost bump you. Take a step to the side (I somehow liked going right). Throw. Success and shielder rages and thinks you just threw through his shield ^^
why are you not wearing any armor other than some shitty body armor? You can wear up to 10 lbs without penalty. Enjoy being 1 shot when you are hit in the head/foot.
Being 1 shot is not a problem because i play with this char on siege, for fun :)
with better armors im bleeding gold, throwing weapons are expensive :(