cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Safavid on March 08, 2011, 02:59:16 am

Title: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Safavid on March 08, 2011, 02:59:16 am
They need to switch the gameplay back to classic where you have couched lancing without recovery time.  Really in the fast paced battles in cRPG it almost makes the lances useless and not realistic. 
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: JasonPastman on March 08, 2011, 03:29:06 am
agreed!
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: DrTaco on March 08, 2011, 03:35:01 am
It's an ok idea but i'd rather have 2handers regulated and those fucking spammers deported until this happens.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Vibe on March 08, 2011, 07:30:21 am
Nono, it's fine the way it is. Decent lancers are all top scorers if you havent noticed.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Patricia on March 08, 2011, 07:52:29 am
Are you mad?
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Seawied on March 08, 2011, 09:05:28 am
Nono, it's fine the way it is. Decent lancers are all top scorers if you havent noticed.

Very true.

Besides, Warband doesn't account for broken/lost lances in a charge. A recovery period is a fair trade-off for this.

I don't think couched lancing is over-powered, but it is powerful enough.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Zisa on March 08, 2011, 09:49:05 am
no.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Poetrydog on March 08, 2011, 09:54:54 am
I say no as well. Don't fix it if it ain't broken
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Prentyss on March 08, 2011, 09:55:19 am
Nono, it's fine the way it is. Decent lancers are all top scorers if you havent noticed.

That's the second time in 2 days that i totally agree with you Vibe !  (Troll and shielder ;) ).

At the moment Bruce, Leed (Kapikulu by the way) and Assarhaddon are very very often in the top 5 in battle.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: IRunUDie on March 08, 2011, 10:01:25 am
no no no way couched lance is bad enough on its own without it being able to be spammed
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Huey Newton on March 08, 2011, 04:32:01 pm
its fine
learn to time your couches right
and learn to thrust

you will do fine
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Toffi on March 08, 2011, 04:33:04 pm
I think it's fine the way it is
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Dravic on March 08, 2011, 05:14:14 pm
Its IS fine as it is. Did you know, that wpfs decrease recovery time a lot?

Just stop using 18+str/rest agi builds.

Just try this build which is for mostly couching instead of mostly thrusting:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 10
Agility: 27
Hit points: 45
Unused skill points: 6
Converted: 4
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 9
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 9
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 181
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

And still 6 unused skill points, your choice if you will get a shield or iron flesh or even athletics. Important is one thing: with shield you will thrust with lances much slower, but with couching you will still do good.

Meant to be used with Great lance to couch and any lance to thrust.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: EliteDragon on March 09, 2011, 08:15:52 am
Couching is fine. Just l2p w/ it and adjust.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Safavid on March 09, 2011, 09:17:13 am
Basically, as is you can use it once at high speed and thats it per round.  By the time the cooldown wears off you got like fifty arrows in you.  I liked the classic couch with unlimited (spam if necessary).  A person on a horse can couch forever (I ride real horses).  It does have it's weakness where you can only hit in one direction, which is fair for those who want to hit you.  I hate it when a lot of the realistic things are taken out for fear of 'balanced' play.  Real war was not balanced.  This is why when heavy armored Crusaders came to Jerusalem, they met fierce resistance by Turkish and Saracen horse archers that would shoot between armor kinks (yes they were that good when they can shoot through a small hoop backwards at full gallop, the same can not be said of western archers) and taken down heaver Knights. 

I think they should also introduce "styled play" similar to the Starwars game where you could pick sword fighting styles regardless of the weapon you have.  That way you always know which direction your going to strike in melee. 

 :D
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Patricia on March 09, 2011, 09:25:21 am
Basically, as is you can use it once at high speed and thats it per round.  By the time the cooldown wears off you got like fifty arrows in you.  I liked the classic couch with unlimited (spam if necessary).  A person on a horse can couch forever (I ride real horses).  It does have it's weakness where you can only hit in one direction, which is fair for those who want to hit you.  I hate it when a lot of the realistic things are taken out for fear of 'balanced' play.  Real war was not balanced.  This is why when heavy armored Crusaders came to Jerusalem, they met fierce resistance by Turkish and Saracen horse archers that would shoot between armor kinks (yes they were that good when they can shoot through a small hoop backwards at full gallop, the same can not be said of western archers) and taken down heaver Knights. 

I think they should also introduce "styled play" similar to the Starwars game where you could pick sword fighting styles regardless of the weapon you have.  That way you always know which direction your going to strike in melee. 

 :D

If you want realism go do some god damn LARP, if I wanted realism over balance I'd go outside fight it out LARP style with the other pimply ugly nerds, it happens that I want balance over realism, considering realism over balance already exists.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Kryser on March 09, 2011, 09:45:29 am
I love playing cav, but it's not broken and we shouldnt mess with it. Doesnt couching a lance into an enemy in RL snap in half when it hits a shield and/or flesh? The kewl down period is nice, and balanced.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Safavid on March 09, 2011, 09:50:59 am
@ Patricia... I am a martial artist in real life who practices Kendo, however I am also very well read in regards to military history.  Realism is much better than pseudo-balance.  Every person has a different fighting style.  Also, the lack of real control over strikes is really who has the better ping and computer.  People play historic games for the realism, not for 'well balancing' in a pseudo balanced sense.  Who wants to play games that you don't have real control over skill.  Instead, it is whoever spends more is better (well balanced with lots of money).  Reminds me of Battlestar Galactica Online where the more cubits you spend the better you fight.  No use of skill/intellect as much.  But then again, that may be why the world is being reduced to fascists, our education systems have gone down the toilet and people would rather run and shoot than know a little history. Thanks for waking me up.  BTW nerds end up with money, homes, cars, and women.  Because they were smart enough to know how to get the money.  I guess it makes sense...nerd gets money, buys Lamborghini, super model becomes wife and does no need to know any history other than how to hold on to a polearm.  I really appreciate you waking me up to my priorities.   :twisted:

@ Kryser... European lances break, however eastern lances were not meant to break and were usually reinforced on both sides with metal.  In fact, most Muslim armies used a metal lance or spear.  Sometimes the lances or spears also were wood with metal plating.  Generally Persians and Turks used more metal lances and Arabs used either depending on their location.  Persians and Turks had the heaviest weaponry and armor that was a combination of mail/scale/plate.  If you notice all the 'Sarranid' weapons are fully metal...including the maces, axes, etc.  That way your axe or mace would not be cut in half if you blocked.  The same is true of lances. 
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Prentyss on March 09, 2011, 10:15:38 am
People play historic games for the realism, not for 'well balancing' in a pseudo balanced sense.

I totaly agree with you, but since when M&B is an historic game ?
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Patricia on March 09, 2011, 10:36:23 am
I totaly agree with you, but since when M&B is an historic game ?

That's what I was going to point out, this game is in no way meant to be historical.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Safavid on March 09, 2011, 11:33:11 am
It's meant to be historical, however the Turkish designers wanted to bypass any sort of recognition so that westerners buy the game.  Now that it's popular, the new installment 'M&B FIRE AND SWORD' is based on true historic events between Poland vs. Russia/Ukraine/Crimean Tatars and of course you have the Ottoman factions.  In a sense, you are right, however it was meant to pull you in so you don't denounce it because it comes from Turkey (Muslim country).  The same way the EU was racist against Turkey and Muslims, many people still are.  Just look at all the Islamophobic people on the news.   :rolleyes: http://www.youtube.com/embed/VSgirNjyiRo
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Bjarky on March 09, 2011, 11:46:47 am
@ Kryser... European lances break, however eastern lances were not meant to break and were usually reinforced on both sides with metal.  In fact, most Muslim armies used a metal lance or spear.  Sometimes the lances or spears also were wood with metal plating.  Generally Persians and Turks used more metal lances and Arabs used either depending on their location.  Persians and Turks had the heaviest weaponry and armor that was a combination of mail/scale/plate.  If you notice all the 'Sarranid' weapons are fully metal...including the maces, axes, etc.  That way your axe or mace would not be cut in half if you blocked.  The same is true of lances.
i wont argue on the sarranid stuff.
But when u refer on european lances that break, then your talking about jousting lances and those break for a good reason ;)
The war lances or spear/javelins for euro cav didnt break on impact, for a good reason again, off course  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Toffi on March 09, 2011, 12:01:47 pm
i wont argue on the sarranid stuff.
But when u refer on european lances that break, then your talking about jousting lances and those break for a good reason ;)
The war lances or spear/javelins for euro cav didnt break on impact, for a good reason again, off course  :mrgreen:

I would say so too, most of the lances broke or got stuck in the enemy.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Patricia on March 09, 2011, 08:24:53 pm
It's meant to be historical, however the Turkish designers wanted to bypass any sort of recognition so that westerners buy the game.  Now that it's popular, the new installment 'M&B FIRE AND SWORD' is based on true historic events between Poland vs. Russia/Ukraine/Crimean Tatars and of course you have the Ottoman factions.  In a sense, you are right, however it was meant to pull you in so you don't denounce it because it comes from Turkey (Muslim country).  The same way the EU was racist against Turkey and Muslims, many people still are.  Just look at all the Islamophobic people on the news.   :rolleyes: http://www.youtube.com/embed/VSgirNjyiRo

What does racism have anything to do with that? I'm not even from the EU or the US, I'm not racist against anyone, I'm just saying this game is in no way historical, specially not cRPG or else we wouldn't have weapons from a bunch of different time periods, also unless your lance is invincible or you're strong enough to run around with 30 bodies impaled on your lance I'm pretty sure you'll lose it in fast order.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: John on March 10, 2011, 03:15:46 am
What does racism have anything to do with that? I'm not even from the EU or the US, I'm not racist against anyone, I'm just saying this game is in no way historical, specially not cRPG or else we wouldn't have weapons from a bunch of different time periods, also unless your lance is invincible or you're strong enough to run around with 30 bodies impaled on your lance I'm pretty sure you'll lose it in fast order.

You honestly don't see how valuing gameplay balance over realism is racist against Turkish people? 

I thought you were more informed, Pat.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: panderson on March 10, 2011, 03:44:33 am
l2stab and you won't have this problem.  I am normally a cav (just not this gen), and I get by quite fine without any changes to couched lances.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Seawied on March 10, 2011, 10:04:51 am
That's what I was going to point out, this game is in no way meant to be historical.

Not true at all. Historical considerations were a strong influence on many elements in the game... which is why you don't have things like dual wielding, despite how strong of a demand there is for it.

Gameplay still took precedent over realism, and some artistic license was thrown in. Additionally, the limits of the M&B engine and computers also played a strong factor as well.

To say though that the game was "no way meant to be historical" is false.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: La Makina on March 10, 2011, 10:50:08 am
... European lances break, however eastern lances were not meant to break and were usually reinforced on both sides with metal (...)

European lances were meant to break, of course. And so were the Euopean armors, made to be easily pierced. This is well known. All European stuff was crap imported from the Far East, produced at low cost... all of this because of a conspiracy of the merchants guild established in the Terra Incognita.

Always glad to talk about History with connoisseurs wandering the c-RPG website :wink:
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Blondin on March 10, 2011, 11:29:47 am
Ok historical consideration and realism influence the game, as said there is no dual wielding (or no double head axes) but it's just influence. It would be crap to talk of historical accuracy, there is no accuracy in this game, and it's a game, Calradia doesn't exist...
There is a special thread in the forum for history, it's off-topic and no matter about the game.

Also Turkey is not a muslim country, it have a religious-free constitution, laws are not binded to the Charia.

Couched lances are fine like they are now, it's still a powerful weapon, but it ask timing to achieve this 1hit-1kill attack.
There is many things that are not realistic in this game, for matter of balance and because of game mechanics. How a horse can walk on a ladder? How a guy can stay in water without breath? How a guy fall from horse without damage? Etc...
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Patricia on March 10, 2011, 12:23:06 pm
Not true at all. Historical considerations were a strong influence on many elements in the game... which is why you don't have things like dual wielding, despite how strong of a demand there is for it.

Gameplay still took precedent over realism, and some artistic license was thrown in. Additionally, the limits of the M&B engine and computers also played a strong factor as well.

To say though that the game was "no way meant to be historical" is false.

There's a difference between taking historical elements (such as weapons that actually existed) and an actually historical game.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Noctivagant on March 10, 2011, 01:03:23 pm
It's meant to be historical, however the Turkish designers wanted to bypass any sort of recognition so that westerners buy the game.  Now that it's popular, the new installment 'M&B FIRE AND SWORD' is based on true historic events between Poland vs. Russia/Ukraine/Crimean Tatars and of course you have the Ottoman factions.  In a sense, you are right, however it was meant to pull you in so you don't denounce it because it comes from Turkey (Muslim country).  The same way the EU was racist against Turkey and Muslims, many people still are.  Just look at all the Islamophobic people on the news.   :rolleyes: http://www.youtube.com/embed/VSgirNjyiRo

BS and why :

I really don't give a damn about historical e-peen

Lets talk about racism :

I-AM Turkish

1 There is no racism against me : There are some trolls and so what there will be trolls all around
2 Whole crying about racism is insecurity. So sorry about to inform you but if you get hurt by some comments maybe problem lays a bit in you.
3 For crying out loud, your entire clan is crying like little kids on the forum, discuss things in a mature level then.
4 This is a game, seems like some of you (everyone) taking RPing to a new level. You guys are not Janissary troops, They are not Crusaders, He is not a Hussar, She is not an Amazon, They are not Spartans. Could you guys stop being a dickhead and just play it for fun? please.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Felagunda on March 11, 2011, 05:35:02 pm
Maybe not just like native use to be but I think the time should be reduced say 30%
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Engine on March 11, 2011, 06:07:25 pm
Couching is fine, imo as cav.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Prentyss on March 16, 2011, 01:23:58 pm
.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: kongxinga on March 16, 2011, 11:58:02 pm
I got to say safavid makes very good points. There are at least essentially 2 schools of gamers. One that wants artificial "balance" and one that wants the game to reflect on some situation to the best it can given current limitations. Those that want balance will be satisfied by the games in the current world cyber game lineup, such as Starcraft, while those wanting more realism would probably be found playing obscure wargames or simulators.

For warband, given that it was sold on steam and gamersgate(paradox) seems to have attracted both camps in significant numbers. Steamers want their medieval team fortress, while grand strategy paradoxians are likely to have come for the supposed realism or immersion. One man's meat is another's poison, so its not productive to say which one is right.

However, that being said, chadz is firmly in the Steamer/artificial "balance" camp, so arguments for realism don't work too well in this particular mod (but not in others!).

As for couching, having no way to judge the realism, I would say it is fine. If you find yourself not being able to pull off a couch, or only making one couch attempt per round, it is usually a problem of the map. You might be in those infantry oriented maps, or archer box maps. This happens a lot in say ATS, so the problem might not be couching but the maps in rotation.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: Siiem on March 17, 2011, 12:03:41 am
You guys are not Janissary troops, They are not Crusaders, He is not a Hussar, She is not an Amazon, They are not Spartans.

I'm a viking.

OP, the couched lance is extremely powerfull. Without recovery time it will be hell.
Title: Re: Couched Lancing without recovery time...
Post by: LordBerenger on March 17, 2011, 12:13:33 am
Off Topic:Atleast it's better to play this game for roleplaying reasons than pretend this is a CS in a Medieval settings where the only thing you care for are your KD ratio.

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On Topic: And to the Couched Lance recovery. I'd say take the unlimited couching lance without speed recovery back but try to implement something to counter the Lancing somehow. I do not know how but i guess it's not to hard to figure out. Athletics won't necessarily help all the time against Great Lance.