cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Janis_Corp on March 07, 2011, 05:27:10 pm

Title: OP Sidesword
Post by: Janis_Corp on March 07, 2011, 05:27:10 pm
Hey someone know if Sidesword get fixed ,maybe next patch ?

Its unbelievable , for this Speed  TO MUCH damage.

If not ,then i know which weapon i doing heirloomed
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Joxer on March 07, 2011, 05:29:31 pm
L2P  :twisted:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Patricia on March 07, 2011, 06:40:11 pm
Yeah, side sword is stupidly fast and hard hitting.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: MadJackMcMad on March 07, 2011, 07:37:08 pm
I imagine you mean the heir-loomed variants?  I did use a standard sidesword with around 60 prof and 5 PS, it bounced more times than bouncy ball in a bouncy castle. 
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Xant on March 07, 2011, 07:47:50 pm
60 prof, 5 PS? Errrr... what do you expect?
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Konrax on March 07, 2011, 07:51:32 pm
Sidesword is overpowered because of its speed to damage ratio, much like many of the 2h weapons speed/length/damage ratio are too high.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Banok on March 07, 2011, 08:42:03 pm
I dont mind the speed or damage I just want them to reduce the invisible reach.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Tai Feng on March 07, 2011, 08:53:04 pm
Buff Military Sickle :)
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Spawny on March 07, 2011, 08:57:13 pm
From my inventory:

Masterwork Side Sword   9368   
weight 1.3
requirement 8
spd rtng 103
weapon length 95
swing damage 36, cut
thrust damage 29 pierce

How is 103 speed with 36 cut  and 29 pierce damage OP?  :mrgreen:
I'll gladly trade it for a MW long espada.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Karmazyn on March 07, 2011, 08:58:35 pm
Side sword is fine, maybe +2 to base damage for all 1h swords.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Dravic on March 07, 2011, 09:37:55 pm
If so, Karmazyn, Side sword should get +1.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: DrKronic on March 07, 2011, 11:14:00 pm
My mw katana does 104 speed 39c 20p and of course is worthless in combat w a shield, I say don't nerf until I can test sidesword extensively as my wife is a meanie and passwords her compy

From my inventory:

Masterwork Side Sword   9368   
weight 1.3
requirement 8
spd rtng 103
weapon length 95
swing damage 36, cut
thrust damage 29 pierce

How is 103 speed with 36 cut  and 29 pierce damage OP?  :mrgreen:
I'll gladly trade it for a MW long espada.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: ManOfWar on March 07, 2011, 11:19:30 pm
if your going to nerf it, just nerf the speed, leave damage alone
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vibe on March 07, 2011, 11:52:45 pm
Or leave speed since it's not a big sword and lower the damage to 30.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: ManOfWar on March 08, 2011, 12:00:54 am
Or leave speed since it's not a big sword and lower the damage to 30.

screw speed,you just need ot be fast enough to not get spammed, damage is what matters, dont turn my sword into a piece of shit
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: xcascadex on March 08, 2011, 12:31:48 am
Yes this sword is ridiculous, I refused to heirloom it three times instead of my grosse messer because I hate bogus cheap weapons. The sidesword basically has range, speed, and damage. You can't HAVE ALL THREE without sacrificing one, it just makes no sense, and including the piercing which is ridiculously high. This sword should either be slower or less damage, because after heirloom it's just OP.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Gorath on March 08, 2011, 12:41:41 am
if your going to nerf it, just nerf the speed, leave damage alone

 :shock:

Man.  It's a fairy little renaissance rapier looking sword.  The cut damage it has is stupid and illogical.  It only does 1 less damage than the niewiedao (sp?) which is a heavy cleaving blade, only 3 less than the frickin cleaver.  It makes no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Kalam on March 08, 2011, 12:43:24 am
:shock:

Man.  It's a fairy little renaissance rapier looking sword.  The cut damage it has is stupid and illogical.  It only does 1 less damage than the niewiedao (sp?) which is a heavy cleaving blade, only 3 less than the frickin cleaver.  It makes no sense whatsoever.

x2.

I like fairy-like renaissance type swords, but I do believe they should get thrust damage and crappy ass cut damage, much like the regular espada.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Gorath on March 08, 2011, 12:47:24 am
x2.

I like fairy-like renaissance type swords, but I do believe they should get thrust damage and crappy ass cut damage, much like the regular espada.

Indeed.  Good thrust damage and speed with crappy cut?  Fits the style of the sword.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Karmazyn on March 08, 2011, 01:04:36 am
Its not a rapier, its palash like backsword.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2011, 01:07:16 am
Even the most stupid person in this community should know by now that a mediocre player going polearm-spammer or twohandstabber or crushthroughretard will be on top of the scoreboard all the time.

It is so easy to kill a 1h in 1 vs 1

- outspam (katana)

- spam swing run and backpedal (long hafted blade, maces etc.)

- destroy his shield with one hit (poleaxes, great long axe)

- crush through his shield (barmace)

- dance circle backpedal and stab (greatsword)

- super nerd authistic feint spam (awlpikes)

All these options are totally easy to do and need absolutely no "skill".

In a "normal" battle with my 1h I need 3 or 4 shields, with shield skill 5, and against most of the enemies I am even fighting without shield because its easier.

With 7 powerstrike I need 4 hits on the average 2h/poleguy, I have to block him many many times, and one single mistake what doesnt take much with my horrible internet connection and the general crpg lag and stuttering animations and my girl is dead.

Its silly to discuss 1h and overpowered, its the class thats hardest to play. (Maybe except some weird people who choose to play with pike only and fight 1 vs 1 all the time against shielders but thats their problem for being a nerd and not understanding their role on the battlefield).


On realism, there are many ridiculous things in this arcade game, be it 2h stab with 6 yards reach or run around and spam your huge sword or axe with an insane speed and never getting tired. 
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Gorath on March 08, 2011, 01:16:45 am
Its not a rapier, its palash like backsword.

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Whatever, still a thin little fencer type blade.  No reason it should cut like a cutting sword (arming, broadsword style blades, cleavers/chinese sabres, etc).

In a "normal" battle with my 1h I need 3 or 4 shields

This is simply because you are by far, the WORST player in c-RPG and most likely all of M&B:Warband in general.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Karmazyn on March 08, 2011, 01:21:29 am
Side sword.
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Its not a rapier.

Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Lars on March 08, 2011, 01:24:42 am
haven't real all posts, but... if you think sidesword should be nerfed,most of 2h weapons should be nerfed too Imho.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: IG_Saint on March 08, 2011, 01:27:21 am
Even the most stupid person in this community should know by now that a mediocre player going polearm-spammer or twohandstabber or crushthroughretard will be on top of the scoreboard all the time.

It is so easy to kill a 1h in 1 vs 1

- outspam (katana)

Block, counter attack, win (if its a ninja, against people that wear armour you might have to repeat)


- spam swing run and backpedal (long hafted blade, maces etc.)

Dont play into his game, let him backpedal out of reach and then turn and run for teammates. Or block, block, counter attack/feint, win.


- destroy his shield with one hit (poleaxes, great long axe)

The counter to shields kills shield users? Wow, who'd have thought.

- crush through his shield (barmace)

Barmace is being nerfed. Currently is completely ridiculous.

- dance circle backpedal and stab (greatsword)

somewhat agree, but completely unrelated to 1hs. Again good blocking and feints should be enough to see you through. If you have good blocking and feints and still got beat you just got outplayed.

- super nerd authistic feint spam (awlpikes)

Hold right mouse button down till you hear the "thump". Also spam works excellent against people that feint too much.

All these options are totally easy to do and need absolutely no "skill".

And are totally easy to defeat.

In a "normal" battle with my 1h I need 3 or 4 shields, with shield skill 5, and against most of the enemies I am even fighting without shield because its easier.

You're doing it wrong.

With 7 powerstrike I need 4 hits on the average 2h/poleguy, I have to block him many many times, and one single mistake what doesnt take much with my horrible internet connection and the general crpg lag and stuttering animations and my girl is dead.

Nice, so we should buff 1hs to compensate for your crappy connection and pc? Oh and if you're getting killed in 1 hit, get some decent armour.

Its silly to discuss 1h and overpowered, its the class thats hardest to play. (Maybe except some weird people who choose to play with pike only and fight 1 vs 1 all the time against shielders but thats their problem for being a nerd and not understanding their role on the battlefield).

Always classy calling someone a nerd on a gaming forum. Psst, you're posting on a gaming forum, you're a nerd as well.

On realism, there are many ridiculous things in this arcade game, be it 2h stab with 6 yards reach or run around and spam your huge sword or axe with an insane speed and never getting tired.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: UrLukur on March 08, 2011, 01:49:19 am
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IX.8 From Venezia (CX 1997)
This Italian specimen is dated circa 1480. It measures 39" overall and has a 32.5" long blade with a maker's mark by master Pippo

It's quite clearly it's hilt orginated from this. I think Shredzorz just got the lazy way on blade and reused type XVIII used in italian sword (or did similar)(but he thined it down to fit the hilt). It's clearly thin type XVIII blade, not designed to perform powerful cuts.

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Now find out that italian sword is broader, thus should have better swing (have 30c).
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Gorath on March 08, 2011, 01:57:14 am
Side sword.
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Its not a rapier.
Look at the designs.  Here's another one.
Side sword
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Practice Arma Side sword
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Side sword
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Side sword
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32 cut...

Arming sword
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32 cut...  other than 7 range completely replaced and outclassed by the side sword.

And then real cutting swords
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33 cut.... only 1 more cut, massive reach deduction and the same speed.... wtf

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33 cut, only 1 more than the side katana, less range, less speed, less thrust.  Most importantly, only ONE more cut damage

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Only 3 more cut damage
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Anyways the point of it all:  Side sword cut damage is stupid and illogical in comparision to the other 1h'd swords.  Not only that but it's indictive of an internal balance issue with the whole 1her line.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: DrTaco on March 08, 2011, 02:53:38 am
I think there are more pressing matters then people getting owned from a good dueler.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vibe on March 08, 2011, 07:37:22 am
Even the most stupid person in this community should know by now that a mediocre player going polearm-spammer or twohandstabber or crushthroughretard will be on top of the scoreboard all the time.

It is so easy to kill a 1h in 1 vs 1

- outspam (katana)

- spam swing run and backpedal (long hafted blade, maces etc.)

- destroy his shield with one hit (poleaxes, great long axe)

- crush through his shield (barmace)

- dance circle backpedal and stab (greatsword)

- super nerd authistic feint spam (awlpikes)

All these options are totally easy to do and need absolutely no "skill".

In a "normal" battle with my 1h I need 3 or 4 shields, with shield skill 5, and against most of the enemies I am even fighting without shield because its easier.

With 7 powerstrike I need 4 hits on the average 2h/poleguy, I have to block him many many times, and one single mistake what doesnt take much with my horrible internet connection and the general crpg lag and stuttering animations and my girl is dead.

Its silly to discuss 1h and overpowered, its the class thats hardest to play. (Maybe except some weird people who choose to play with pike only and fight 1 vs 1 all the time against shielders but thats their problem for being a nerd and not understanding their role on the battlefield).


On realism, there are many ridiculous things in this arcade game, be it 2h stab with 6 yards reach or run around and spam your huge sword or axe with an insane speed and never getting tired.

Olol not this shit again.

L2P seriously. Any half decent Sword&Board can kill a good 2 hander.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Kalam on March 08, 2011, 07:44:24 am
Olol not this shit again.

L2P seriously. Any half decent Sword&Board can kill a good 2 hander.

If seeing players constantly switch builds has taught me anything, it's this: any good player in a melee build is perfectly capable of killing everyone else.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vibe on March 08, 2011, 08:08:46 am
If seeing players constantly switch builds has taught me anything, it's this: any good player in a melee build is perfectly capable of killing everyone else.

That's true, but sword&board requires less skill to have same k/d.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Varyag on March 08, 2011, 08:32:20 am
I use balanced side sword. And its good against noobs and medium players. But I still can't kill best twohanders with it. SO NERF 2HANDERS for lulz!

On the serious note, side sword is quite expensive, and often I lose 500 gold per round just for having side sword with me. So, you bunch of twohanders calm down and live with the fact that shielders also have expensive weapons, just like u do. As for realism: DO U SERIOUSLY THINK U CAN SO EASILY SWING UR HUGE HEAVY TWOHANDERS IN REAL LIFE LIKE U DO IT IN CRPG? LOL
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Phyrex on March 08, 2011, 08:39:01 am
I wish all weapons were as fast as the Sidesword, might make combat exciting again.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Patricia on March 08, 2011, 12:10:10 pm
I use balanced side sword. And its good against noobs and medium players. But I still can't kill best twohanders with it. SO NERF 2HANDERS for lulz!

On the serious note, side sword is quite expensive, and often I lose 500 gold per round just for having side sword with me. So, you bunch of twohanders calm down and live with the fact that shielders also have expensive weapons, just like u do. As for realism: DO U SERIOUSLY THINK U CAN SO EASILY SWING UR HUGE HEAVY TWOHANDERS IN REAL LIFE LIKE U DO IT IN CRPG? LOL

Side sword is less expensive than most top tier 2handers/polearms, as for realism, lol.

If we were to balance anything around realism, archers as an exemple would only be good for volleys.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Spawny on March 08, 2011, 12:16:35 pm
Side sword is less expensive than most top tier 2handers/polearms

True. It's just that you need a shield to go with that one handed sword to make it viable. If I was going to use it without a shield I'm better off taking a 2h weapon.
A sidesword with an elite cavalry shield is allready more expensive than the danish greatsword.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Christo on March 08, 2011, 12:41:34 pm
I agree with you guys. Fast, can deal a lot of damage, and it's usable with shields..

Yeah, I want a personal tac. nuke too.

If you know the Ru_Conquista group in EU battle servers, you know what I'm talking about. They can slaughter masses by abusing that weapon's current stats. Insane.

Even with a poleaxe, I start fighting with them, shield needs a lot of hits to kill, (high shield skill, I guess), and the speed I have to counter is worse than katana/spammitar in my opinion.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Patricia on March 08, 2011, 12:44:16 pm
True. It's just that you need a shield to go with that one handed sword to make it viable. If I was going to use it without a shield I'm better off taking a 2h weapon.
A sidesword with an elite cavalry shield is allready more expensive than the danish greatsword.

Not necessarely, atleast in duel 1 handers are currently the OP choice as they're incredibly fast and hard hitting, specially the sidesword, as for battle I can agree but in the end a shield is just another defensive tool, much like how a 2 hander would buy an expensive armor, I have a sword and boarder and with 26k worth of stuff I can get stuff like barbutte, heraldic mail, sidesword, huscarl shield no problem.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vibe on March 08, 2011, 01:24:12 pm
I agree with you guys. Fast, can deal a lot of damage, and it's usable with shields..

Yeah, I want a personal tac. nuke too.

If you know the Ru_Conquista group in EU battle servers, you know what I'm talking about. They can slaughter masses by abusing that weapon's current stats. Insane.

Even with a poleaxe, I start fighting with them, shield needs a lot of hits to kill, (high shield skill, I guess), and the speed I have to counter is worse than katana/spammitar in my opinion.

QFT. Anyone who is whining about 1h being a bad choice can take one long, hard spectate at DimaUrban.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Blondin on March 08, 2011, 01:24:16 pm
Yeah, 1handed weapons need a shield to be effective and the combo cost a lot... But sidesword is the top tier weapon so it should cost a lot, i don't see problem with this.

Also, it's the last weapon in 1hander category, i guess it have to be good (for example like a flamberge in 2h category) it's true that it's a very fast weapon for such damages (i don't even talk of heirloom version). Since scymi have been nerfed no-one use it, and speed is a key for 1hander, so everyone use sidesword.

I can understand that it's disturbing for 2hander spammers that were used to pwn 1handers, they can't anymore. But good 2handers don't have issue with spamsword, even less if the 1hander try to spam them (backpedal, slash, he's dead) and they are not that fast, you have time to counter attack.

I don't use sidesword, i don't like the design and it cost too much for such uglyness, but i don't find it op.

@ Vibe : i don't see how 1hander have a better k/d. Sure it's easier to survive (arrows) and shield can deal with multiple enemies. But in a battle, 1handers slash foe 2 or 3 times, then a 2h/pole finish the job, or 1h concentrate the block on his shield and a 2h/pole kill the foe in 1 or 2 hit. 2h/pole deal way more damages, then more kills, then better k/d.

But it's'true that we see more and more good skill players using 1h+shield, not only noobs. Ppl think less that the real good players are the one who know to block and we see new 1h build.
But there are very few 1handers that top the scoreboard, ex: RXN, Cyber, Dima(only one using sidesword but for his clan style).
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Toffi on March 08, 2011, 01:24:29 pm
well I'm not using that sword but just checked it out, it's the most expensive sword 9k so I don't care about the stats, it can be op for that price.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Laufknoten on March 08, 2011, 01:33:33 pm
Right now I really wondering, why they even added the side sword. I mean, everyone is interested in Balance and that no weapon is too powerful. Now, just take a look at these stats:

weight 1.3
requirement 8
spd rtng 101   
weapon length 95
swing damage 32, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce

The first thing you have to think is: "This weapon is OP!"
At least that was my reaction and I was even more suprised as I saw that they buffed my beloved Espada.  :cry:
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: ManOfWar on March 08, 2011, 01:55:25 pm
you mean nerfed the long espada?  Ya that was my sword before the patch....
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Laufknoten on March 08, 2011, 01:59:32 pm
you mean nerfed the long espada?  Ya that was my sword before the patch....
Yes, my fault, i ment nerfed.  :) I will use it anyway after I retired, cause it has style and the range is still a good reason to choose the long Espada.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: ManOfWar on March 08, 2011, 02:01:32 pm
That sword was my baby! But then they nerfed it and buffed the side sword so it was time to move on :/
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Laufknoten on March 08, 2011, 02:05:33 pm
That sword was my baby! But then they nerfed it and buffed the side sword so it was time to move on :/
Maybe, but you still can heirloom it and then it's quite powerful and it has it's speed back. 
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Michael on March 08, 2011, 04:31:43 pm
The only way to get a hit on a 2h/polearmguy for a 1h is that the 2h/polearmguy makes a mistake.

The only way to kill a 2h/polearmguy for a 1h man is that the 2h/polearmguy makes many mistakes, because a 1h doesnt do much damage.
My girl has 7 power strike and I cant kill an unarmored guy with 1 hit, doesnt matter if I use Long Espada or the so called overpowered Side Sword.

The only weapons I can 1 hit kill unarmored ppl are small sabre like weapons, but their reach isnt much, so 2h/polearm guy can keep running away from me/ staying out of my reach.


The only reason why 1h can beat 2h/polearm in 1 vs 1 is because most 2h/polearmguys are offense players, they have not much defense skill.
Sounds weird, but its true, shielders are forced to block manuell more than 2h/polearm, so they are used to it and usually better in it.


Lastly, I would bet that no dedicated 2h/polearm would get more kills with a turtler.
He will get much less kills with 1h/turtler.

And dont tell me some shit I was level 1 and killed someone........I was level 1 and killed 2 people (and only one was a peasant) with 1shield but that doesnt mean its easy.

You have to compare equal things, and what I can say is that my 2h/polechars were more effective at level 20 than my shieldmaiden is now at level 30.

So the argument I dont get much kills with 1hshield cos I suck doesnt work. When and if I suck here, I do with 2h/polearm, too, but for some reason I get plenty of kills with them.......even with my dedicated lancer, no armor, no athletics, no weapon master, I picked up a great long axe and spammed down a group of 5 enemies. Silly.



Ah and yes, I prefer the Long Espada Eslavona. Its not the best weapon against other shielders, its damage is ridiculous, but its reach gives my the option to kill crushthroughnoobs, and even some 2h/polearm spammers - need 4 or more hits but the bit more damage the side sword has doesnt make a big difference, 1hs damage is not much, thats the main prob of this class.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Xant on March 08, 2011, 04:53:18 pm
The only way to get a hit on a 2h/polearmguy for me is that the 2h/polearmguy makes a mistake.

Fix'd
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Christo on March 08, 2011, 06:55:35 pm
The only way to kill a 2h/polearmguy for a 1h man is that the 2h/polearmguy makes many mistakes, because a 1h doesnt do much damage.

the side sword has doesnt make a big difference, 1hs damage is not much, thats the main prob of this class.

You know that this is bullshit, right?
Well, guys like you QQ-d, we got nerfed, you got a speed buff. Now you want a damage buff too? Jesus.

Just like I and Vibe said: Take a good look at the Ru_Conquista group. Your opinion will change about that damage.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: MadJackMcMad on March 08, 2011, 07:40:55 pm
60 prof, 5 PS? Errrr... what do you expect?

Damage?  I switch to the longsword with 5ps and 0 prof and suddenly I can damage people in melee again.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Blondin on March 08, 2011, 08:30:26 pm
It's'well known that 1h weapons do less damage, but...

Well there is no problem with that, you can't have all in one class.
1h+SHIELD is a defensive class, you can't have protection and damages, some kind of balance...

Also 2h/pole are offensive class, good damage but less protection (against ranged) and manual block. Balance again...

This is the base of cRPG, no, the base of Warband.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vexus on March 08, 2011, 08:44:23 pm
1h should have lower damage but slowly with the new weapons implemented the gap of 2h damage and 1h is always getting thinner.

When steel pick has 33 pierce and morningstar 38 only 5 difference.
When warhammer 31 blunt and bar mace/long iron mace have 33 to 35 blunt 2 to 4 difference.

Yea nice gap between the 2 weapon styles...
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Murchad on March 08, 2011, 09:14:15 pm
1h should have lower damage but slowly with the new weapons implemented the gap of 2h damage and 1h is always getting thinner.

When steel pick has 33 pierce and morningstar 38 only 5 difference.
When warhammer 31 blunt and bar mace/long iron mace have 33 to 35 blunt 2 to 4 difference.

Yea nice gap between the 2 weapon styles...

yeah, my brother uses 3x heirloomed steel pick
Gen3= 102spd 39pierce
kills pretty much anything in 2-3 hits, 1 if head
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: ThePoopy on March 08, 2011, 09:20:45 pm
thats more then awlpike =/
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: UrLukur on March 08, 2011, 09:23:10 pm
1h should have lower damage but slowly with the new weapons implemented the gap of 2h damage and 1h is always getting thinner.

When steel pick has 33 pierce and morningstar 38 only 5 difference.
When warhammer 31 blunt and bar mace/long iron mace have 33 to 35 blunt 2 to 4 difference.

Yea nice gap between the 2 weapon styles...

I point you to armor formula, and most important thing, SOAK. Soak reduce damage by set amount Armor value*corresponding soak (type of damage dependent)*pseudorandom number between 0.5 and 1.

In other words difference between 29c and 34c could be as high as between having to hit 5 times and 2 times
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vicious666 on March 09, 2011, 06:29:41 am
problem of sidesword like i explained to fasader in a pm

is that  have same dmg of slower  swords like sarranid or nordic but is also faster  removing the sense to use other swords


sarranid? more reach  good dmg,  but slower
eslavona? good  reach+ top pierce dmg,  but lower  dmg overall than others, speed  medium
sidesword?   only 5-6 cm less than others in terms of reach , but faster , with more dmg than eslavona, and same dmg of others.
nordic?    slower,   not bigger reach than others.   not top dmg, no top speed.  (most gimped sword)


so my idea was  remove 3 dmg from sidesword make it remains the faster.     and make the champion the sword with more dmg so have a sense
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vicious666 on March 09, 2011, 06:37:55 am
thats more then awlpike =/

at 1/3 of his reach
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Lansamur on March 09, 2011, 09:41:35 am
Pfff... l2p. I usually beat even Masterwork Side Sword users (1h/shield) with my MW NCS, even on a 24/15 build. It all comes down to timing and knowing how to use it. When I face another skilled 1h/shielder with a MW SS, I'm usually screwed though xP. Then I'll either have to try and chamber, or just run away (0 athletics ftw!) and get an easier opponent xD
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Spawny on March 09, 2011, 12:02:12 pm
I specced DimaUrban yesterday. He was running around with a steel pick, performing left to right swings as he ran through the enemy lines. He mostly made headhits, killing in 1 or 2 hits tops.

With enough agility, a MW steel pick is far more broken than a MW sidesword. The agility makes up for the range and with a 15/21 build you have 7 athletics, 150+ wpf and 5 PS with a 100 speed (or 101, I forgot) 39 pierce damage weapon.
It will never bounce, hits earlier in the swing due to the shape of the weapon AND it pierces through armour. Even with 4 PS and 24 agility you will be deadly.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Cup1d on March 09, 2011, 01:30:58 pm
Steel pick
weight 2.25
requirement 12
spd rtng 100
weapon length 64
swing damage 33, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce
Gen1= 100spd 36pierce
Gen2= 102spd 36pierce
Gen3= 102spd 39pierce

Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: EponiCo on March 09, 2011, 06:38:44 pm
1h should have lower damage but slowly with the new weapons implemented the gap of 2h damage and 1h is always getting thinner.

When steel pick has 33 pierce and morningstar 38 only 5 difference.
When warhammer 31 blunt and bar mace/long iron mace have 33 to 35 blunt 2 to 4 difference.

Yea nice gap between the 2 weapon styles...

You compare the cheaper 2h with the expensive 1h. Try this Light Spiked Club 20 pierce...
Sidesword vs. Cookies/Poleaxe = 32 vs 40, that makes some difference (+50% or more damage against armor).
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Patricia on March 09, 2011, 08:32:43 pm
Not sure how anyone is saying 1 handers are weak, my char with the heaviest armor I have of all my other guys get killed in 2 sidesword hits, the sidesword is also stupidly fast, and the 1 handers animation are bonker, they can just hide their weapon behind their shield and you'll barely have any time to react, the left to right animation is also conveniently the fastest AND aimed at the head, made a sword and boarder sometimes ago, tried the steel pick, was killing black armor users in 2 hits with 4 PS because of left to right.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Konrax on March 09, 2011, 08:39:39 pm
One weapon doesn't balance an entire spec line.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Patricia on March 09, 2011, 08:54:21 pm
Fine, start nitpicking.

Let me rephrase that, every high-top tier 1 handers will kill me in 2 hits wearing my heaviest armor.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vexus on March 09, 2011, 09:03:58 pm
You compare the cheaper 2h with the expensive 1h. Try this Light Spiked Club 20 pierce...
Sidesword vs. Cookies/Poleaxe = 32 vs 40, that makes some difference (+50% or more damage against armor).

How am I comparing cheap 2h vs expensive 1h?

Were did I mention cut damage in my post? please show me.

Steel pick has nearly same damage of a 2h/pole piercing weapon while being able to use a shield.

Warhammer has very little difference in damage of a 2h/pole blunt weapon while being able to use a shield.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: UrLukur on March 09, 2011, 09:38:11 pm
How am I comparing cheap 2h vs expensive 1h?

Were did I mention cut damage in my post? please show me.

Steel pick has nearly same damage of a 2h/pole piercing weapon while being able to use a shield.

Warhammer has very little difference in damage of a 2h/pole blunt weapon while being able to use a shield.

Compare range then.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: EponiCo on March 10, 2011, 04:54:44 am
How am I comparing cheap 2h vs expensive 1h?

Were did I mention cut damage in my post? please show me.

Steel pick has nearly same damage of a 2h/pole piercing weapon while being able to use a shield.

Warhammer has very little difference in damage of a 2h/pole blunt weapon while being able to use a shield.

Do I really need to say the prices? steel pick 7k (5th best) Morningstar 4k (almost "peasant weapon").
You may complain that 1h has top tier blunt while 2h only gets top tier swords but that certainly doesn't mean 1h weapons on general  aren't doing only 2/3 or 1/2 the damage of their 2h counterparts.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Patricia on March 10, 2011, 05:11:52 am
Pretty sure 1handers are not meant to do the same damage as 2 handers.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vicious666 on March 10, 2011, 08:23:43 am
Pretty sure 1handers are not meant to do the same damage as 2 handers.

i am pretty sure 2h are not supposed to be faster than 1h but here a german sword  is faster than  any  1h+shield, or you wanna compare swing a steel pick of what 1kg? maybe less, vs  a 2hander of 10kg ?       

also 2handers  make hits true the ground, thats why many 2hander look down when turning around and hitting your legs
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Lansamur on March 10, 2011, 08:54:32 am
Lol Vicious... show me a 2h that weighs 10kg (except Mauls). A normal 2h weighs around 2kg, maybe 2.5. Wielded with 2 arms, there is way more power behind as there would be with 1h. Kinetic Energy comes from speed, you can wield a lightweight 2h faster than a lightweight 1h, which means there's more dmg from the 2h. So no, 1h should not be able to do as much dmg as a 2h weapon in general. The problem is, if both player slash at the same time, the 2h just has the advantage of range, that's why his hits almost always connect earlier.
As you said though, most 2h seem to aim for the feet instead of the head, opposite to 1h, who almost always have to aim for the head. That makes up for the difference in damage dealing.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: La Makina on March 10, 2011, 09:25:26 am
thats why many 2hander look down when turning around and hitting your legs
I tend to hit the legs but it is not on purpose, it is because of the position of  the camera. I see the action better from above my character and this makes him strike low.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Patricia on March 10, 2011, 09:54:04 am
I tend to hit the legs because I'm getting spammed by thrusts I have to block, so after awhile I'm just looking straight at the ground since I forget/don't have time to re-adjust my camera.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vicious666 on March 10, 2011, 12:16:07 pm
no you hit legs becouse game is bugged

your sword swing true the ground, and hit by exiting from the ground again.     is a sort of collision exploit.     



you wanna say to me that  you can swing this sword :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hfLZozBVpM                              (is what in game  we call flamberge)

faster than this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhknaG9ifbs&feature=related

(is a military hammer  of similar size  and lenght of a steel pick   with a pirce edge on 1 side)



any 1h weapon is faster to swing than a big 2h sword.     expecial after first swing, where you need to recover from all weight and inertia. (much more difficoult with a 2h )   

in crpg        stand still, swinging       2h  outspam  1h
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Xant on March 10, 2011, 12:22:18 pm
Yeah you can. Momentum and shit.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vexus on March 10, 2011, 12:30:27 pm
Do I really need to say the prices? steel pick 7k (5th best) Morningstar 4k (almost "peasant weapon").
You may complain that 1h has top tier blunt while 2h only gets top tier swords but that certainly doesn't mean 1h weapons on general  aren't doing only 2/3 or 1/2 the damage of their 2h counterparts.

Yes morningstar is cheaper but what about the bec? Oh and high price doesn't mean balanced.

Like previously said a 1h has the advantage of a shield meaning right click and block (Yes he must turn bla bla like everyone) meaning a 1her has more defense at the cost of less reach and damage since he's wielding it with 1 hand.

2h on the other hand use often a light weapon with 2 hands to have better speed and damage BUT at the cost of protection.

So tell me why a 1h weapon needs almost same damage of two handed weapons?

Yes these 2 are shorter but that doesn't justify the warhammer having 31 blunt, knockdown AND 99 speed and steel pick 31 pierce 100 speed it's not balanced, the 1h animations hide the weapons and short weapons specially thin weapons like the steel pick are very hard to see some of the times thanks to it's speed and length.

These fast 2h blunt weapons have unbalanced (Tough long iron mace doesn't seem that unbalanced to me as it looks pretty balanced for it's shape) apart of the short spiked mace which imo is not so good but whatever it has less damage at least so their damage should be justified as it's harder to fight with an unbalanced weapon.

And to conclude this till some 1hers complain again, you CAN'T say x thing is balanced because it costs the most see the flamberge and most high tier in the 2h/pole sections every patch some of them gets nerfed yet the flamberge is still the highest in price but I don't see it having ridiculous stats.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Felagunda on March 10, 2011, 12:38:40 pm
Either dmg or spd is gonna need a reduction of 3 maybe have a poll to see which?
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Vibe on March 10, 2011, 01:06:30 pm
Either dmg or spd is gonna need a reduction of 3 maybe have a poll to see which?

Agree. Or atleast 2.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: EponiCo on March 10, 2011, 02:14:18 pm
@Vexus

He must turn more accurate, footwork more and generally put a lot more effort into attack. As someone who has used both 1h and 2h weapons, I find it about balanced, at least for a good deal of options.
I don't know if you are complaining about 1h in general or only about steel pick but like I said as a general rule 1h have a lot less damage than comparable 2h. The one thing that stands out are these warhammers, look at swords, axes, mid level maces.
But since you mention the bec, how does that compare to the barmace? Imo the whole blunt category needs a rebalance.
About price, you are right it can't just be OP because it's expensive, but you can't balance the best in 1 category with some lower mid stuff of the other.
Title: Re: OP Sidesword
Post by: Jarold on March 11, 2011, 02:41:17 pm
First off I would like to say, you nerf fiends are a bunch of fools, I think they should just nerf everything, remove all weapons, then you guys would be cryin nerf the fists.  Every game ive ever played I see this same Nerf rant, just stfu and play.  This game is not realistic, Sprinting around in platemail, swinging axes 6 foot tall like wifflebats