cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: nuffen on March 05, 2011, 09:38:27 am
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Im cant promise that I will follow the advice, but it would be handy to know what you guys think about the punishment-level in the game.
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reflecting team damage would solve it imo
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No reflecting dmg, it would hurt anyone who is in fight and his teammate jumps between his sword and enemy and then what happens? Guy who is best on server, and almost cut in half enemy's best player, dies because of dmg reflection cause some stupid person jumped between him and enemy...
Ban for 1hour. But I would write down his/her serial key, so if he will do such a thing again, ban for week. Than, after week, if his/her serial key will do that again - perma ban.
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Voted "He should not ban the TKer because the TKer is in a major clan that will retaliate against the admin for months."
No admin should have to go against major clans. All those angry letters and ultimatums and tears. And bombs. Terrible. Best leave them major clans be.
edit: but if the "months" is just weeks then that's OK.
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reflecting team damage would solve it imo
Automated script to delete your character after any TK would also solve it.
The idea is not finding a solution, but a good solution. Reflective teamdamage always feels like silly magic mechanic which detracts from the feel of the game. Also, it is exploitable by trolls and such, and soon we'd be having threads like "ban XYZ for jumping in front of archers" and would need rules like "intentional jumping in front of friendly weapons is forbidden".
And really... before you try to find solutions, you've got to ask whether you in fact have a problem. And I'd say we don't, really. There's the odd troll who TKs intentionally which deserves a ban, the odd rage TKer, and of course, accidents which happen from both someone being careless with swings/shots, from people being killhungry maggots which have 0 situational awareness and charging into teammate's swings.... and of course, pure accidents because of ethereal corpses, etc.
Aside from people who repeatedly do intentional TKs, and who get banned anyway, I don't find there are any problems to "fix" with reflective damage or something of the sort.
As for this thread and the poll... well, do we seriously need the sort of admin who is going to be butthurt for the next three months because 49.5% of the people (who are by his statement all voting for "wrong" reasons) think he shouldn't be an admin? Why can't you be like normal admins who don't argue with players, only kick/ban people when someone is obviously in the wrong, and in general you don't notice an admin is there until someone is actually breaking the rules? Nobody is polling them for a reason. Stop being a damn drama queen.
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If the admin witnesses it then id go for kuck (first offence).
If its first offence and they dont witness it warning.
If they dont witness it but the player is a known tker then a 1 hour ban pending extension from player reports.
If they do witness it and they are a known tker then they should use their common sence.
That is my opinion.
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As for this thread and the poll... well, do we seriously need the sort of admin who is going to be butthurt for the next three months because 49.5% of the people (who are by his statement all voting for "wrong" reasons) think he shouldn't be an admin? Why can't you be like normal admins who don't argue with players, only kick/ban people when someone is obviously in the wrong, and in general you don't notice an admin is there until someone is actually breaking the rules? Nobody is polling them for a reason. Stop being a damn drama queen.
What? You dont think the admins should try to get any feedback from the users about their opinion on the administration of the servers?
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For intentional TK at spawn there should be 1 week ban, no warning. It is obviously a deliberate violation of the rules so I see no reason to show any mercy.
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Since it was a new guy that spawned, i voted for a kick(should have been warning+kick). Ban is harsh, when it could have been a banner bug.
However if someone that has been playing for several rounds spawn-tks i would ban them for 1-4 days (on first offense, double ban-time for second offense :P)
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Oh, I didnt mean new as in never played before. The admin wouldnt know that. I ment new as in new to that battle.
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Oh, I didnt mean new as in never played before. The admin wouldnt know that. I ment new as in new to that battle.
ditto, i was confused when i first encountered the banner-bug, think i did 1-3 team-hits before i figured out i was a idiot :P
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I think intentional TK should definitely be kicked. Or intentional harassment.
But was it a revenge TK? I don't think revenge TKS should be allowed. It makes a bad environment but maybe it warrants some leniency.
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Just a kick for the first time. It CAN be an error.
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I think intentional TK should definitely be kicked. Or intentional harassment.
But was it a revenge TK? I don't think revenge TKS should be allowed. It makes a bad environment but maybe it warrants some leniency.
define 'revenge tks'
yesterday, some assholes kept trying to tk, and i killed him 2-3 times because he tried to kill me.
It wasn't a revenge tk, it was merely self-defence.
ofc i could've just tun away, but then i would have to watch my back for that guy all the time, and it just seemed easier and more fair to kill him.
I don't know if it is allowed, but it definitely shouldnt cause a ban.
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define 'revenge tks'
yesterday, some assholes kept trying to tk, and i killed him 2-3 times because he tried to kill me.
It wasn't a revenge tk, it was merely self-defence.
ofc i could've just tun away, but then i would have to watch my back for that guy all the time, and it just seemed easier and more fair to kill him.
I don't know if it is allowed, but it definitely shouldnt cause a ban.
To answer your question, it's not allowed. Why?
Imagine being the admin. It's at the start of a battle, so early that the cavalry havent even had the time to get to the enemy. You see the text of someone tking someone. In this situation its obious that it is an intentional TK, and as an admin you probably ban the tker for it.
Here, your defence-TK kicks in. If he kills you, the admin will see it and probably ban him. If you kill him, it will look like your the bad guy, and you'll probably be banned.
Defence-TK is still an intentional tk, and is against the rules, and it also makes it harder to admin the server.
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Warn first in admin chat that if he TKs again he'll get a 1 day+ ban.
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I'd ban 'permanently', by which I mean that they'd stay banned until they come and write an appeal explaining what they thought they were doing.
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reflecting team damage would solve it imo
No there are accidental TKs and Tws too you know.
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First offence should nearly always be a kick imo. Just because the admin can rarely see all that's happening or has happend. Banner bug is an example, or maybe the "victim" had just spent an hour harrassing and TKing on a different server.
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I'd ban 'permanently', by which I mean that they'd stay banned until they come and write an appeal explaining what they thought they were doing.
Looks like we're the only two people who voted that :/ . High five!
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i voted a week ban, firstly, why the fuck are they attacking you on spawn, someone did it to me yesterday, if the punishment is severe, maybe it'll stop people doing it...
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If I see it with my own eyes and am sure who the attacker was/is, 3 day ban. If common sense doesn't apply, he got his warning when reading the offical rules.
I got no problems with people doing silly stuff as long as they don't ruin the game for other people on purpose, but teamkilling at spawn, not allowing another person to play the game is too much griefing to be dealt with a kick or a simple warning.
edit: Stuff like bannerbug and the like, if you spawn with a team full of non-banner guys that don't attack you, apply common sense and restart the game.
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Just a kick for the first time. It CAN be an error.
A swing can be an error, two swings can be a "just making sure there is actually friendly fire" error, killing team mates is pure intention to do harm. A day ban is just the least to be done against such action.
The same should be applied to the team hitters at spawn, might not kill anybody, but really low the odds of the team survival by lowering HP's. And this is more usual than TKrs..
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First a warning with pink text. Then a 1hour ban if it persists.
I agree with Lilith, though. Defence TK shouldn't really be allowed either, or TKing leechers. Just poll him or get an admin to ban him.
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edit: Stuff like bannerbug and the like, if you spawn with a team full of non-banner guys that don't attack you, apply common sense and restart the game.
Well, for some reason i thought i spawned in the middle of the round, and the enemies had overrun my teams spawn(i did spawn late tho). And there were a horse with banner on nearby.
Others might draw the same conclusion that i did.
But of-course i restarted the game when i figured out what was happening
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What you described is the worst kind of tk possible, given no reason someone attacks and tks you at spawn ? At least one day ban, and you shouldn't need to ask, it's really the worst thing a player can do. Revenge tks instead can be treated more lightly, with kicks or 1h bans. Or even just warnings if a guy attacks at spawn and the player defends himself and kills him.
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Totally agree with harsh punishments for this kind of BS.
Just one thing: short warning in chat or question wtf he is doing.
Some TKs are intentional AND justified.
E.g. I have developed the habit to deal with those teamwounding idiots at spawn by turning around and killing them without further questions.
BTW we had that on another thread already, and I still like the suggestion that a general punishment (gold, exp, or both) should be in place for any teamwounding (intentional or not), and that it should be hitpoints-based, not kill-based. So people might actually watch their swings a bit more, and the intentional teamwounding would be covered as well, because these idiots usually do not kill you (to avoid being caught and punished and get the -1 killpoint), but severely wound you and other teammates.
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Totally agree with harsh punishments for this kind of BS.
Just one thing: short warning in chat or question wtf he is doing.
Some TKs are intentional AND justified.
E.g. I have developed the habit to deal with those teamwounding idiots at spawn by turning around and killing them without further questions.
BTW we had that on another thread already, and I still like the suggestion that a general punishment (gold, exp, or both) should be in place for any teamwounding (intentional or not), and that it should be hitpoints-based, not kill-based. So people might actually watch their swings a bit more, and the intentional teamwounding would be covered as well, because these idiots usually do not kill you (to avoid being caught and punished and get the -1 killpoint), but severely wound you and other teammates.
That's just wrong, you don't know if they're tking because they're lame or if they're defending themselves or revenge tking. You should only tk if you got hit personally, happened more than once that a guy attacks me at spawn for no reason at all, i defend and kill him, and another idiot plays police and attacks me as well, because i teamkilled (while i was only defending after being attacked). It's the most retarded thing you can do.
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First a warning with pink text. Then a 1hour ban if it persists.
I agree with Lilith, though. Defence TK shouldn't really be allowed either, or TKing leechers. Just poll him or get an admin to ban him.
so i should just get killed, weaken my team and not play a round, because i can hope an admin will ban him?
actually Thomek came, i told him what had happened and the other players agreed with me. Thomek only kicked the guy.
so tbh, i would do it again if it happened, i want to play the game and not get killed cause some moron thinks it's funny to tk.
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I say an hour ban for a first offense like this, if it's a player new to the game he will learn his lesson fast when he can't play for a bit if he really wanted to play the mod in the first place. If he is caught doing it again he should face a day ban, if he even continues after the day ban it should be a week.
If his/her behaviour continues in a bad way after a week ban then FOREEVVVERRR BANNED. People will either learn their lesson fast not to grief other players or they will end up banned permanently. Either way the community wins.
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If it happened how you told it, kick.
But if say, somone started attacking a player next round because that player tked them previously or team attacked them without apologising then I think they'd only deserve a warning.
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For the specific scenario you posted, I would ban for a day. I wouldn't have a problem with a perma-ban actually but I'll be nice. I don't understand why anyone needs to be warned. Stupidity and ignorance are not excuses.
No one is new to gaming that is playing this mod. Everyone knows tk'ing is not permitted. You can't do it in any game. Why would this one be different? So the excuse of ignorance just doesn't fly. Add the fact that they swung multiple times at spawn indicated it was on purpose. There are no enemies to use as an excuse. There are always morons that have this uncontrollable urge to press the left mouse mutton when they spawn. Its in every team-based game I've played, whether its Call of Duty or Counterstrike.
The practical problem we face is that admins don't see tks at spawn. They see the revenge tk and the subsequent trolling by all. For a revenge tk, I would kick. All the other tks that happen during a fight, I would do nothing UNLESS it was obviously witnessed and corroborated by several people that it appeared purposeful. But I think most people need to accept the fact that you will get team damaged and team killed during those clusterfucks.
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If it happens how you told, permaban the tk'er for 1 week and if he does it once again, permaban him
I can just repeat what Kung Fu Jesus said :
No one is new to gaming that is playing this mod. Everyone knows tk'ing is not permitted.
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Nonsense. Revenge tks hamper the team just as any other teamkill. It's retarded and selfrighteous, every player that has revenge tked me I've also seen accidentally tking me or others without bothering to apologise. Not to mention that some people go for "revenge" when their teammate hasn't even hit them in the first place.
Ofc if he attacks you for no reason and you only defend yourself it's something different, but the admin is at no fault banning you like any other tker if he only sees your tk. You can complain in then ban section and hope you've got witnesses to get unbanned and the attacker banned.
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That's just wrong, you don't know if they're tking because they're lame or if they're defending themselves or revenge tking. You should only tk if you got hit personally, happened more than once that a guy attacks me at spawn for no reason at all, i defend and kill him, and another idiot plays police and attacks me as well, because i teamkilled (while i was only defending after being attacked). It's the most retarded thing you can do.
Maybe you did not read me right - if someone hits ME in the back at spawn, I turn round and make use of my sword or stick an arrow in his face. Policing? No. If I notice teamhitting/killing at spawn against others, I keep an eye on the TKer until he moves to the frontline and/or question him in public chat.
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Im cant promise that I will follow the advice, but it would be handy to know what you guys think about the punishment-level in the game.
As an NA admin, these are my thoughts:
First of all, the entire scenario is situational. If it's a guy I've never seen before, I may give him a written, verbal warning in admin chat. On the other hand, if it's a guy who has done this several times in the past, and been given warnings/bans, who knows the rules, I may go straight to a 24 hour ban.
Also, if I didn't personally see the attack take place, along with anything leading up to said attack, I'm less likely to use a ban or kick. If a player complains that someone intentionally TKed them, and I did not see it happen, I pretty much universally issue written warnings in admin chat. That is usually enough to diffuse the issue, and everyone moves on with their day.
However, being the sadist that I am, if I issue a written warning for a rules violation in admin chat and someone proceeds to troll/abuse the admin, I reserve and occasionally exercise the right to kick/ban them for being a pain in my ass. I consider arguing with me while I'm attempting to enforce the rules to be the game equivalent of "obstruction of justice".
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I think that there should be a damage calculator that calculates the amount of friendly damage, and with what type of attack the damage was caused by, and if it is excesive, then he will be banned for a while, if it is really excesive then he will be banned for very long time, if it is plainly impossible to do on accident, its a perma-ban. There, admins will have a easier job, and if they are not around it is still safe.