cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Penguin on March 09, 2012, 03:25:08 am
-
See title, I've always thought it a bit ridiculous that a horse can slam it's head into a wall without taking a lick of damage. I know a horse would probably die running full speed into any solid object really, but all I'm asking is for consideration of adding damage or at least a "stun"/period of disorientation for the horse.
-
-1 not my cup of tea
-
yep and while we're at it, lets add disarming, weapon ricochets, archery misfires, weapon breakage/wear
every parry you make reduces blade damage by 10% to a maximum of 1/5 the listed weapon dmg
-
every parry you make reduces blade damage by 10% to a maximum of 1/5 the stated weapon dmg
Not realistic.
-
Sounds fun TBH, would add some extra skillz to being a lancer/HT, but first, BUFF HT DMG! ZLISCH WILLS IT!!!
-
There are so many things that are not realistic that you would have to fix, you're just focusing on one area that you dislike.
I agree with digglez comment. You'd also have to add the ability to tackle people to the ground and stab then where armor pieces meet (like the neck or under the armpit) and kill them with a dagger.
Also when the horse dies from a spear as it's charging into someone and the horses body flies into someone, presently it's a ghost corpse. In real life if you have 800-1200 lbs of dead weight flying into you at 20 mph you're going to be hurting in the morning (if you are even able to get up afterwards).
-
Also when the horse dies from a spear as it's charging into someone and the horses body flies into someone, presently it's a ghost corpse. In real life if you have 800-1200 lbs of dead weight flying into you at 20 mph you're going to be hurting in the morning (if you are even able to get up afterwards).
Of course the pikes should be grounded and the momentum of the horse would be absorbed as it skewered itself and likely wouldn't reach the pikeman.
But sorry OP, there are just too many reasons to say no (even though I can't be bothered to list them).
-
Of course the pikes should be grounded and the momentum of the horse would be absorbed as it skewered itself and likely wouldn't reach the pikeman.
But sorry OP, there are just too many reasons to say no (even though I can't be bothered to list them).
Yes, it would be nice if you could brace spears and lances into the ground, the horse would never reach the infantry person then. However, when an arrow kills the horse, or someone swings and breaks the legs and the horse flies into 2 infantry, it would severely fuck them up.
There are soooooooo many things that could be done to make the game more realistic, the point I (and I think Digglez) was making, is that it's futile to complain about one "realism" aspect and ignore all the others, especially in direct relation to the thing you're talking about (horses).
You want realism, every time your horse is hit there should be a chance that it rides around uncontrollably, or rears up and tries to buck you from the horse (maybe create a mini-game like in Red Dead Redemption where your horse rears and you have to stay balanced).
There is a lot missing that could make it more realistic, I think the mod is limited by the game.
-
For realism, this would be a good addition. However, horse bump damage should also be increased a lot making a horse able to instakill on bump on low armored and low health players. Horses should also be damaged from bumping players, but about half the damage as the player being bumped recieves.
But, those changes would suck for the playability and fun of the game. I want realism, but only as long as it is balanced and fun. Having horses suddenly getting afraid and fleeing from battle, or refusing to run into players or stuff would also be realistic, but it would suck.
-
For realism, this would be a good addition. However, horse bump damage should also be increased a lot making a horse able to instakill on bump on low armored and low health players. Horses should also be damaged from bumping players, but about half the damage as the player being bumped recieves.
But, those changes would suck for the playability and fun of the game. I want realism, but only as long as it is balanced and fun. Having horses suddenly getting afraid and fleeing from battle, or refusing to run into players or stuff would also be realistic, but it would suck.
Some horses already do a pretty big amount of damage, i lost ~1/4th hp from one bump the other day, was really surprised. Doesnt happen alot tho, but still that would almost be a insta kill on peasants i think.
-
horse bump would mortally wound most people by breaking bones, crushing organs, extreme brusing, resulting head injuires, etc
what you fail to realize is the size and strength of the horses chest. Take a look at the horse skeletons, their breast bone is about 4x as thick as a humans, surrounded by pounds upon pounds of muscle. A 1.5 - 2 lbs. horse knocking over a 200 lb human is little to no risk to itself. Their center of gravity is hitting you far far above yours, and you go splat.
-
Digglez use "Système international d'unités" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units), also called the SI- system so we stupid Europeans understand what you are talking aboot :D
-
For realism, this would be a good addition. However, horse bump damage should also be increased a lot making a horse able to instakill on bump on low armored and low health players. Horses should also be damaged from bumping players, but about half the damage as the player being bumped recieves.
But, those changes would suck for the playability and fun of the game. I want realism, but only as long as it is balanced and fun. Having horses suddenly getting afraid and fleeing from battle, or refusing to run into players or stuff would also be realistic, but it would suck.
I think adding some form of damage to horses charging full speed into a wall is a good balance between realism and balance. It's a strawman to say "well you must want horses to kill on 1 bump" or "oh so you are in favor of having horses run away?" because this thread simply is not about that
-
Yup, I remember making a thread with the same idea. chadz has always said he thinks horses are used way too much like go-carts in the game, and he'd like to do something to make maneuvering with a horse more skill based. This is one of the best ways of accomplishing that imo. I wouldn't mind lance angle the way it was before the nerf and implementing this, if its even technically possible with WSE without looking weird or ridiculous.
-
Digglez use "Système international d'unités" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units), also called the SI- system so we stupid Europeans understand what you are talking aboot :D
short ton,[8] net ton "ton" (US) 2,000 lb (907.1847 kg) Used in the U.S., and formerly in Canada
Heavy warhorses weight between 1.5k - 2k lbs, or about 1 Ton
-
"ton" (US) 2,000 lb (907.1847 kg)
Heavy warhorses would be around 2k lbs, or 1 Ton = 1814 kg
?
-
?
fixed, early morning posting without help of caffeine
-
Yup, I remember making a thread with the same idea. chadz has always said he thinks horses are used way too much like go-carts in the game, and he'd like to do something to make maneuvering with a horse more skill based. This is one of the best ways of accomplishing that imo. I wouldn't mind lance angle the way it was before the nerf and implementing this, if its even technically possible with WSE without looking weird or ridiculous.
Yeah it wouldn't be that bad if we didn't have invisible walls and invisible tree hitboxes etc... I don't ride my horse like go-cart but sometimes there comes surprising objects in the way which are not avoidable because you cant see them.
-
My horse (Courser) can die from 2 steel bolts or from 2 arrows even if it wasn't hit in the head (Shot by arbalest, heavy crossbow , Rus bow and Long bow). What more nerf do you wan to the horse? Currently heavy horses are worse than ever and they can only last 2-3 hit in melee
-
My horse (Courser) can die from 2 steel bolts or from 2 arrows even if it wasn't hit in the head (Shot by arbalest, heavy crossbow , Rus bow and Long bow). What more nerf do you wan to the horse? Currently heavy horses are worse than ever and they can only last 2-3 hit in melee
So because your horse dies in 2 hits from well-aimed very hard hitting weapons (I use a MW heavy xbow and it has sometimes taken 3 bolts on any horse above a desert) it should be immune to a certain kind of damage? By that logic, since I die from 2 arrows I should be immune to fall damage. I also die to in a couple hits from a melee weapon, I should be immune to drowning, wait, let me get back to you on that :mrgreen:.....
-
The horse never collides with a solid object (other than players). It is smart enough to stop before it gets there. You are just too dumb to realize it :P
-
The horse never collides with a solid object (other than players). It is smart enough to stop before it gets there. You are just too dumb to realize it :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiH3zgo-yU8
:shock:
So pappy, these horses were not smart enough to defy the laws of physics and rear up instantaneously at full speed? :wink:
-
You can't fool me into clicking your "Accept me as your Savior link"!
-
And to add to my previous post: LAGS! I often get lagspikes and then my horse starts to teleport. Guess how it usually ends? Yes you bet it went and reared to some tree, wall or map end, true. There are some reasons why this wouldn't be so good thing to add into game. If you ride stupidly and your horse rears to some object near enemies, you are pretty much fucked anyways...
-
And to add to my previous post: LAGS! I often get lagspikes and then my horse starts to teleport. Guess how it usually ends? Yes you bet it went and reared to some tree, wall or map end, true. There are some reasons why this wouldn't be so good thing to add into game. If you ride stupidly and your horse rears to some object near enemies, you are pretty much fucked anyways...
I think horse rears should only be applicable on the map barriers. Invisible walls, trees, whatever is the map makers fault, we shouldn't scrap this idea because of a few lazy mapmakers!
-
I'm for it. Just give armour ratings a reflective damage rating. So if you slam you unarmoured horse into a dude in gothic plate your horse gets poleaxed.
Hopefully the reflection would allow armour horses to reflect most of the damage or soak it up. Because lets face it a giant horse covered in plate is going to laugh off a human standing in its way, even if they are wearing plate armour.
-
sounds good to me, force these cav to use a little more skill
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiH3zgo-yU8
:shock:
So pappy, these horses were not smart enough to defy the laws of physics and rear up instantaneously at full speed? :wink:
Horses used in battle would often times become uncontrollable if they were hit with arrows, there's many recorded instances of friendly horses (with riders thrown or going along for the ride) riding through friendly infantry and trampling and killing their own men.
-
Yes for solid walls.
People would have to consider a few more balancing issues with risk/reward scenarios.
@ SoOdin
Horse teleport for me is an entirely different (but yet infuriating) issue.
-
implement that,but add more manouver to horses and remove ammount obstacles in maps.
-
Just wanted to add somewhere, that you can manually "rear" your horse.
If you're competent, you can do it "before" hitting the solid object, thus not damaging your horse.
If this was added, it would help separating the noob cav from the good ones. So a +1 from me.
Edit for below, who didn't understood: :rolleyes:
The this is the suggestion of damaging horses when they run into obstacles and are forced to rear. It's not... at all.. the option to manually rear your horse wich indeed already exists...
-
Just wanted to add somewhere, that you can manually "rear" your horse.
If you're competent, you can do it "before" hitting the solid object, thus not damaging your horse.
If this was added, it would help separating the noob cav from the good ones. So a +1 from me.
Already in-game
Ctrl-J
I would rather have light horses that charge into infantry take damage whether or not they get hit. It doesn't make any since that a horse can run over 5+ people and not feel anything. It also would solve the problem of friendly cav charging into melee to get a kill.
-
Already in-game
Ctrl-J
I would rather have light horses that charge into infantry take damage whether or not they get hit. It doesn't make any since that a horse can run over 5+ people and not feel anything. It also would solve the problem of friendly cav charging into melee to get a kill.
Lol moron. How big are horses, how big are people? You must never have seen a horse close up in real life. You would see the massive muscles they posses. They're like a fucking rock. The only way they'd get hurt is if they twisted their ankle and broke it as they stomped a hole in your chest.
If they bumped you with their massive breast muscles you'd bounce and they would keep on charging.
-
Half the realism suggestions should be implemented in a separate game in Frostbite/Source engine.
-
Lol moron. How big are horses, how big are people? You must never have seen a horse close up in real life. You would see the massive muscles they posses. They're like a fucking rock. The only way they'd get hurt is if they twisted their ankle and broke it as they stomped a hole in your chest.
If they bumped you with their massive breast muscles you'd bounce and they would keep on charging.
i grew up around horses and let me tell u a secret. they are flesh and blood animals. if a horse charges into 5 men who are all wearing metal/steel armor as well as shields and weapons the horse is going to get injured as well as slow down. the horse could easily trip as well into a front somersault. seriously stop watching lord of the rings where horses charge through hundreds of men without slowing down or taking damage lolol
-
I never said they could charge through 5 people full speed...in warband (and crpg) horses slow down when they run into people, and if they continue running into people, they continue slowing down.
Don't make me break out the NBC "The more you know picture" I'll fucking do it...
Yes, they're flesh, blood and muscle, just about 4 or 5 times more than a person. That's like comparing a gorilla to a human, yes they're flesh and blood and still require oxygen like humans, but they're a lot fucking bigger, and they would do a lot more damage if they ran into you.
-
It still doesn't change the fact that they would take damage running into 250lb plate armored human. Horses break their legs and are put down from simply running a race on flat ground. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't take damage while running through a thousand pounds of men and armor and long sharp pointy sticks and long metal blades whether those objects are being swung at the horse or not.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
-
Well horses slow down when running into people. And if those people have pointy weapons and are aware they can do the damage. That seems accurate then :)
-
pappy I'm also aware of how fragile a horses lower legs are. they break just running sometimes on flat ground. I don't think 250 lbs "bracing" for a horse charging at you would put up much resistance for the horse however. Yes, they could break a leg, but they would demolish you in the process.
-
I never said they could charge through 5 people full speed...in warband (and crpg) horses slow down when they run into people, and if they continue running into people, they continue slowing down.
Don't make me break out the NBC "The more you know picture" I'll fucking do it...
Yes, they're flesh, blood and muscle, just about 4 or 5 times more than a person. That's like comparing a gorilla to a human, yes they're flesh and blood and still require oxygen like humans, but they're a lot fucking bigger, and they would do a lot more damage if they ran into you.
give me a sword and I would massacre a full grown silverback gorilla 8-)
-
Somewhat related: if someone on a horse jumps off a massive drop, the horse dies when they land but the rider is just thrown to the ground as if the horse had been standing still and died. Don't know if it's possible to apply falling damage to riders as well. Probably not a big deal though, since there are few places out of all the maps where you can "take a horse off a sweet jump."
-
On the topic of horses, in Napoleonic Wars you can get knocked off your horse, and neither of you die. That's something I wouldn't mind seeing in cRPG (for example, when a pike hits the rider's shield).
-
Somewhat related: if someone on a horse jumps off a massive drop, the horse dies when they land but the rider is just thrown to the ground as if the horse had been standing still and died. Don't know if it's possible to apply falling damage to riders as well. Probably not a big deal though, since there are few places out of all the maps where you can "take a horse off a sweet jump."
If the fall is high enough rider does take damage. I'm not sure what the cutoff point is, needs testing.
-
That's not it oberyn, I've fallen massive distances and my horse dies and I take no damage. I haven't taken damage from a fall when my horse died in c-rpg (as far as I know ever). I think it used to work that in native when your horse died from a fall you took damage, but I dont' know if they removed it (haven't really played native in a year or more).
-
That's not it oberyn, I've fallen massive distances and my horse dies and I take no damage. I haven't taken damage from a fall when my horse died in c-rpg (as far as I know ever). I think it used to work that in native when your horse died from a fall you took damage, but I dont' know if they removed it (haven't really played native in a year or more).
I remember very clearly dying from a fall when I was riding. The horse had low HP and me too, we both died. It was from up the walls on ruined fort.
-
I remember very clearly dying from a fall when I was riding. The horse had low HP and me too, we both died. It was from up the walls on ruined fort.
It is known.
I tried it when we built this to the duelserver, and yes even the rider dies if the fall is high enough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45eU2xcYmwg
-
pappy I'm also aware of how fragile a horses lower legs are. they break just running sometimes on flat ground. I don't think 250 lbs "bracing" for a horse charging at you would put up much resistance for the horse however. Yes, they could break a leg, but they would demolish you in the process.
Changing the argument? The realism argument is that the horse would take damage charging into infantry with all sorts of sharp and pokey things, not that humans would take no damage. Currently it can take half the health off of a player and run along foot loose and fancy free. Twas a human shaped fog bank it was!
-
Add realistic trampling, then health off horses from charging would make sense. Then horses can be the kamikaze death missiles they are meant to be. You want a horse's leg getting broken to put the horse out of the fight? Apply the same to players. Oh did you just get charged by a sumpter horse at full speed that proceeded to then walk all over your prone body? You're dead.
-
Realistic bump damage would be hilarious, considering analysis of the skeletons in the americas showed what massive trauma a mere unarmoured conquistador horse can do to an unarmoured man (One shot kill).
Now imagine slightly larger and significantly more armoured horses slamming into people :lol:
-
It still doesn't change the fact that they would take damage running into 250lb plate armored human. Horses break their legs and are put down from simply running a race on flat ground. Don't think for a second that they wouldn't take damage while running through a thousand pounds of men and armor and long sharp pointy sticks and long metal blades whether those objects are being swung at the horse or not.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
i like your point of view and the fact that you threat all breeds of horses as one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ft9OXQ03qE
heres a horse running into a solid object, i guess thats it for him
-
i like your point of view and the fact that you threat all breeds of horses as one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ft9OXQ03qE
heres a horse running into a solid object, i guess thats it for him
The horse in the video only went through the windshield and a tiny part of the hood. It doesn't take that much force at all. Notice how the horse doesn't actually collide with the car but steps on it. If the horse was not stepping on the car it would be a much different situation.
-
The horse in the video only went through the windshield and a tiny part of the hood. It doesn't take that much force at all. Notice how the horse doesn't actually collide with the car but steps on it. If the horse was not stepping on the car it would be a much different situation.
men are harder than cars, fact
-
men are harder than cars, fact
The car will still run, a man can't fix his spine...
nice job changing your argument...