cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Crazyi on March 07, 2012, 08:29:52 am

Title: Rule Check
Post by: Crazyi on March 07, 2012, 08:29:52 am
Ok so I read through the rules again. I see its ok to glitch. Just want to make sure it is ok to abuse the spin attack through walls? You know, you can stab through an opening like a door with a long weapon, turn quickly, and hit some one on the other side of the wall. Saw some one doing it and asked the admins online at the time and they said it was acceptable. Just double checking before I get in trouble(it think its lame, but if its allowed /shrug). 

Oh also I was just curious why rules are under Annoucements and not general or new player section? I actually had a hard time finding them....
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 07, 2012, 10:59:45 am
Yeah, spinning to bend an attack around an object is allowed.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Vibe on March 07, 2012, 11:02:34 am
I take it stabbing through wall (without spinning around it) is allowed too?
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 07, 2012, 11:13:42 am
To my knowledge stabbing straight through an object with the pike ISN'T allowed though. Although I don't see it written anywhere, so that needs clarification.
I don't do it because I was told it was specifically against the rules, but bending around objects is fine and all weapons can do that. But it was so long ago, I don't know who said so or whose server it was on, etc.
note:
Quote
No exploiting of any kind

    NOT OK: Bypassing the autobalance
    NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits
    NOT OK: Leaving and rejoining to server to spawn more than once in a round
....
Glitching is allowed, being an asshat isn't

    OK: hiding (e.g. in the hay)
    NOT OK: hiding when last man standing (i.e. delaying)
    OK: using a ladder to reach a roof that can't be reached normally
    OK: camping unreachable places in the middle of the round
    NOT OK: camping unreachable places when last group of men standing (i.e. delaying)
    NOT OK: exploiting invisible barriers
    NOT OK: going out of map bounds (if you can see unfinished parts of the map, then you should not be there)
    NOT OK: ladderpulting
I believe pikes straight through walls fall under exploiting.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 07, 2012, 02:41:38 pm
A very small part of me wishes we could ladderpult for shits again

Anyone have that link to the LLJK video ?

edit FOUND IT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNOogINr7Eg
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: EyeBeat on March 07, 2012, 02:41:51 pm
Someone can shoot through a shield with a crossbow if they get close enough to make the tip of the crossbow appear on the other side of the shield.  It has happened to me many of times.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Spawny on March 07, 2012, 02:54:13 pm
Someone can shoot through a shield with a crossbow if they get close enough to make the tip of the crossbow appear on the other side of the shield.  It has happened to me many of times.

Crossbows can shoot through shields anyway. Hit the right spot with high enough damage and it will penetrate. Only the heavy shields can't be penetrated.
I can't count the amount of times I've headshotted a shielder through his shield when he walked up to me in a straight line when I was a crossbower.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Fasader on March 07, 2012, 05:10:58 pm
Someone can shoot through a shield with a crossbow if they get close enough to make the tip of the crossbow appear on the other side of the shield.  It has happened to me many of times.

Bolts fly out of the player's face, not out of the crossbow so I'm calling bullshit on this.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Zerran on March 07, 2012, 06:05:40 pm
To my knowledge stabbing straight through an object with the pike ISN'T allowed though. Although I don't see it written anywhere, so that needs clarification.
I don't do it because I was told it was specifically against the rules, but bending around objects is fine and all weapons can do that. But it was so long ago, I don't know who said so or whose server it was on, etc.
note:I believe pikes straight through walls fall under exploiting.

This is correct. I looked into this a bit so as to know what exactly I could do without being banned ( :P) and "curving" around objects is allowed, however it is against the server rules to simply poke a pike (or longspear) through a solid object (other than players) and release. For example, aiming through a doorway, releasing the thrust, and then turning into the wall beside the door to stab people hiding around it is allowed, however running up to a solid wall and just thrusting through it is NOT allowed.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Rumblood on March 07, 2012, 06:57:33 pm
Someone can shoot through a shield with a crossbow if they get close enough to make the tip of the crossbow appear on the other side of the shield.  It has happened to me many of times.
Bolts fly out of the player's face, not out of the crossbow so I'm calling bullshit on this.

Why would he lie about it? I firmly believe him. You can take a bow and arrow, stick it through an otherwise impenetrable barrel/crate and shoot through it.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Rumblood on March 07, 2012, 06:59:56 pm
This is correct. I looked into this a bit so as to know what exactly I could do without being banned ( :P) and "curving" around objects is allowed, however it is against the server rules to simply poke a pike (or longspear) through a solid object (other than players) and release. For example, aiming through a doorway, releasing the thrust, and then turning into the wall beside the door to stab people hiding around it is allowed, however running up to a solid wall and just thrusting through it is NOT allowed.

I have to say that this intepretation being discussed is silly.

So you can't poke someone STRAIGHT through an object, but if you go STRAIGHT through the object and then TURN before you hit your enemy, it is OKAY?

Give me the space coordinates to the planet where this makes sense.

I can just hear the gripes now.

"You exploited"
"No I didn't, I glitched!"
"You poked straight through an object"
"No I didnt, I turned!"
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Joker86 on March 07, 2012, 07:07:28 pm
Well, I don't know what's up with you guys, but I would prefer the following change of rules:

Any form of glitching is not allowed!

NOT OK: Hitting someone through solid objects
NOT OK: Hiding in the hay
NOT OK: using a ladder/siege shield to reach a roof that can't be reached normally
...

Perhaps it's a bit more work for the admins some time after the change, but I think fairness on the servers could benefit from it. Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on March 07, 2012, 07:12:36 pm
Jumping over carts and boxes is exploiting too.

But hiding in the hay is in no way wrong. I think you should have a discussion with the assassins...
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Joker86 on March 07, 2012, 07:15:57 pm
Assassins don't belong on the battlefield.  :P

An easy solution to the hay thing would be to make the hay texture invisible in the mod files. No need for admining any more  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: SixThumbs on March 07, 2012, 09:40:43 pm
Is making the hay texture invisible exploiting though?
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: XyNox on March 07, 2012, 10:02:48 pm
Quote
"First rule of em all: common sense"
- chadz

If people around you are being serious, while discussing whether stabbing weapons through solid objects in order to hit people, due to the game engine intended to be unreachable otherwise, is against the rules when playing a skillbased multiplayer game, you are probably playing ...

                    lololololol            nerfnerfnerf               lobbylobby
                    lol         lol          nerf       nerf           lobby     lobby
    my old friendmy old friend       lol          lol         nerf        nerf        lobby
  my old friend              lololololol            nerfnerfnerf        lobby
my old friend                lol      lol             nerf                   lobby       lobbylobby
my old friend                lol        lol           nerf                     lobby          lobby
  my old friend              lol          lol         nerf                       lobby     lobby
    my old friendmy old friend        lol           lol        nerf                         lobbylobby
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: RibaldRon on March 07, 2012, 10:26:39 pm
I have to say that this intepretation being discussed is silly.

So you can't poke someone STRAIGHT through an object, but if you go STRAIGHT through the object and then TURN before you hit your enemy, it is OKAY?
I think that the difference is that in one case you abuse the pike's hitbox go go straight through a large solid object with no nearby openings in order to kill people who you cannot see on the other side (I.E. a tall village or castle wall) VS turning your swing around a corner to hit somebody in a tight space.

*Edit: I know the former is against the rules as I've seen it happen before, though the admin gave a pass on it as the player was the last alive, and out of map bounds.  Both players received warnings.  As for the latter it happens all the time and AFAIK is not against the rules.


Bolts fly out of the player's face, not out of the crossbow so I'm calling bullshit on this.
This has happened to me before on the duel server.  When somebody has a bow or crossbow I always let them take some shots first.  They ran right up to me, and I'm thinking.. what... the crossbow peeks through the shield and headshot.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 07, 2012, 11:00:07 pm
This has happened to me before on the duel server.  When somebody has a bow or crossbow I always let them take some shots first.  They ran right up to me, and I'm thinking.. what... the crossbow peeks through the shield and headshot.
It's shooting over the shield. Even though they are aiming forward. Yeah...
Ever seen a thrower that mastered jump throwing? They run up close range, jump and throw down over shields and headshot people. Crossbows can sometimes just shoot over it by being close and it originating from their face.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Penguin on March 07, 2012, 11:48:38 pm
I see a lot of the kutt and occitan guys intentionally doing this. It is clearly an exploit if you can repeatedly abuse it and poke players who physically cannot get to you without any danger to yourself. Admins should start kicking/banning this.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Tanken on March 08, 2012, 02:38:30 am
I see a lot of the kutt and occitan guys intentionally doing this. It is clearly an exploit if you can repeatedly abuse it and poke players who physically cannot get to you without any danger to yourself. Admins should start kicking/banning this.


Just playing by the rules Jesus, playing by the rules. It's been an accepted standard to curve your pike or spear around a corner for a long while. It most times does not deal anywhere near the damage you'd normally attract with a hit though, as Brunch Lady found out.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: TurmoilTom on March 08, 2012, 03:02:10 am
It's shooting over the shield. Even though they are aiming forward. Yeah...
Ever seen a thrower that mastered jump throwing? They run up close range, jump and throw down over shields and headshot people. Crossbows can sometimes just shoot over it by being close and it originating from their face.

Oh man, I just remembered the first time Chestaclese jump headshotted me over my shield... I was a mad nerd for hours...
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Penguin on March 08, 2012, 08:12:12 am

Just playing by the rules Jesus, playing by the rules. It's been an accepted standard to curve your pike or spear around a corner for a long while. It most times does not deal anywhere near the damage you'd normally attract with a hit though, as Brunch Lady found out.

I guess it's an ethical issue then, and what separates the professional pikers from the peasant pikers  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 08, 2012, 05:10:31 pm
It's shooting over the shield. Even though they are aiming forward. Yeah...
Ever seen a thrower that mastered jump throwing? They run up close range, jump and throw down over shields and headshot people. Crossbows can sometimes just shoot over it by being close and it originating from their face.
I throw like that all the time, I was actually pretty good at it at one point (I feel ma' skillz decline day by day), could even achieve it on EU_3 where the shielder got no distractions back then.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Crazyi on March 09, 2012, 06:09:47 am
So I was just piked straight through a box on the tiny guantlet level. Reported it to the admins. No warning or anything was even said. So I would like to ask again whats up with this ruling? I would really love to see one of the head admins comment on this. I would like to abuse it too if nothing is going to be done to people who do it. I would much rather see it enforced but I like to play on an even field.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Tanken on March 09, 2012, 06:39:24 am
(wasn't me!)

A lot of times people will jump, release the pike, and on your screen the pike will appear through the box. The best way to describe the pike's hitbox is a donut wrapping around the shaft of the pike starting at the midway area (thus why it goes through walls). Pikemen need to maneuver the pike to move that donut down the shaft and feed the donut to the enemy (sometimes your teammates inadvertently). So, with that said, start the pikes animation while coming around a wall is no different than a mauler starting theirs or someone slashing at the corner of a building, it's simply our animations take longer to trigger.


While I do agree stabbing directly through objects is pretty sad in itself, I cannot say I haven't done it unintentionally. There are times as a pikeman you say "Hmm, curving this pike around that corner worked...let's try getting it around this one." only to find that feasibly it wouldn't have worked in a realistic setting and sometimes just ends with you exploiting the wall and it looks really bad on your part. I try to avoid using the over-or-around wall stabs, simply because it induces complaints. It's not a big deal to curve it around walls or through windows or through doors (like the criss-crossing wooden ones that have openings).

What is a big deal is when you start curving it up OVER walls that are higher than your character's height, or start abusing thin object layers that you can stab through i.e. the vines in the cabbage patches or a slit in a wall you otherwise wouldn't be able to put the pike through and replicate the angle of it.


Hope that shines some light on what I think is "legal" and "illegal" when using the pike. Like I said before, I've unintentionally discovered a few glitches with it that I try to avoid but due to game mechanics you can't really control them. It all comes down to what is accepted by the admins and what isn't--and so far that line hasn't been drawn to a T that the community pushing for regulations on these things expect.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Crazyi on March 09, 2012, 07:08:39 am
Alright well I just wont stand next to stuff. Ty
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Hippy on March 09, 2012, 11:05:43 am
If the admins/developers want it to stop being exploited, instead of banning and kicking people why don't you make it not possible? If that's possible why the fuck we having these threads if they can change what so many people be getting sore about? If it's not possible then this is a really unsteady way to go about handing it.

I'm sure you could mess with the pike/hitboxes to make that not possible? Or maybe not, I'm unemployed, not a magician.
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Rumblood on March 09, 2012, 02:36:40 pm
Or maybe not, I'm unemployed, not a magician.

Coders are modern day magicians. Don't ask Merlin why the fuck he could only summon a Drake instead of a Dragon okay?
Title: Re: Rule Check
Post by: Chestaclese on March 25, 2012, 09:07:30 am
Oh man, I just remembered the first time Chestaclese jump headshotted me over my shield... I was a mad nerd for hours...

Hahaha!