cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Mlekce on February 26, 2012, 10:49:16 pm
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Can anyone explain me how can polearm,or 2h sword be faster then one handed weapon?
I have mw scimitar that have 1.2kg,and have speed of 101,and i get spammed buy glaives,and axes that have 91 speed. where is logic in that?
Two handed weapons have big reach,they hit hard,and they have speeds in this game 86-100.
But moust of good swords that are realy long have speed of 92,and they are faster then me.
Polearms are even faster,and longer then 2h swords and have bigger dmg. :rolleyes: Also weight of that items don't make players to move slower,no they are moving same as 1h without shield,or even faster then shielder. Why,how?
No matter what build it is 2h and polearms should be slow moution compared to 1h.
it is not same when you swing 70 cm weapon,and when you swing 150cm weapon.
You need more time for next swing when your weapon is longer
2h and pole users should move slower when they use big weapons,2h and poles should have more weight,and more time delay before next swing.
I guess that realism would disbalance this mode,but this is not real at all. i dont see reason why should anyone be 1h.
Poles have pole stun,have wep stun,have big reach,have high dmg,and they can brake shields easily and they are fast as 1h.
2h have speed,have big dmg,good reach.
1h have shields,and you need to hit someone 5-6 times to kill him. Shield makes you slower,they brake it easy,you spend 5-6 points on shitty shield and then you must choose between speed and strentght. After you balance it my old friend with great maul will appear bad crushtrough make you look like fool for spending 5-6 points on shield.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM&feature=related
shit goes down faster than you think, young padathingy.
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that guy doesnt have shield. That buckler is crap. Ok,and how aout big axe os swiss halberd or whatever it writes?
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Can anyone explain me how can polearm,or 2h sword be faster then one handed weapon?
Simple: they aren't.
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Simple: they aren't.
fuck, totaly forgot to mention that after browsing thru all those vids.
high skill fighting right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sxmNM3dsrA&feature=relmfu
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difference is hilarious. With backpedaling,and 5 athl you can only cry when glaive/some axe start spamming. Your shield is don in 2-3 hits,and then they can do to you whatever they want.
Not to mention that if your shield isnt facing enemy every weapon pass trough your shield.
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mate, you gotta train more. on another note most shielders sheath their shield in a 1 vs 1 situation.
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It's not the swing speed that's so unrealistic, but the speed from attack posture to attack posture, especially polearms. You can swing a large weapon quite fast irl, but hefting it from side to side, is harder. 2h swords really have the advantage here, because of the grip. In the game, the 2h weapons do have superior animations, but the polearm "feinting" is too fast. To balance the two forms, the developers have decreased polearm damage beyond what is realistic, to achieve an overall "realism" and balance.
On the other hand, polearms would be able to bodycheck with the hafts irl, along with tripping, shifting grip, and other things you have to read between the lines to "see" in the combat system now.
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I'm all for shifting speed over to damage for the heavy polearms. They are too similar to swords.
And to OP. Of course, when you use 2 hands to wield a weapon you can swing it much, much faster. Pick up a stick and try it for yourself.
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Yes I would be for that shift, as well. Preferably, the unbalanced tag would be added to the poleaxes, as it affects the feinting, not the swing speed.
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That would actually be unrealistic, since polearms allow a much better grip than 2h weapons (hands farther apart), and also have a little counterweight as balance in form of the pole at the other end of the weapon.
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I've seen you ingame, Mlekce. You need to get better at the game before making such threads.
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nevermind.
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have you ever looked how ppl are holding big axes or mauls when they swing from sides? If you miss you would for shure fall on ground because of lenght and weight of weapon.
@getting better part
i am bigginer,i just got my first mw,and i tried every class in game. Every fool can attack,and learn block,what others know are best builds,and the giches,they use backpedal,and that shit move back and then make thrust going straight on enemy,or just move in right or left side and thrust,they know that if you dont face enemy with shield enemy can pass troudh your shield like you don't have it raised,moving in direction of attack gives you extra speed and dmg ,longsword have bigger animation then long axe and stuff like that. Half of that is exploiting,and knowing animations and gliches in game. Not to mention that moust of players have mw armors. They didn't mastered combat (blocking and attack) they mastered how mod work.
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they mastered how mod work.
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I could outspam you with anything. I did actually do that with a mallet, IIRC. You need to get better at timing your attacks, that's it.
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:lol: Fuck you. :mrgreen:
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That would actually be unrealistic, since polearms allow a much better grip than 2h weapons (hands farther apart), and also have a little counterweight as balance in form of the pole at the other end of the weapon.
Swinging a poleaxe with enough force to kill someone requires a large swing arc, the momentum of which is hard to reverse. Although the grip is wider spread, it is not enough to balance a 5-7 foot pole with an axe head. Additionally, the lower end of the pole is an impediment to freely swinging in wide arcs (because of the torso and arm length), requiring the upper hand to move farther down the shaft (closer to a 2h grip) for wide strikes. You could choke up on the poleaxe, but this is for close fighting, when you'd be checking/tripping your opponent, or hitting them with the butt of the shaft.
The bec de corbin is a good example of a polearm that wouldn't be unbalanced, because of the width of grip to weapon length ratio (a weapon made for tripping, checking, and close fighting), whereas the poleaxe or great axe would need wide-arcs of swing to be effective and therefore require a smaller width of grip relative to length.
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i know this is a realism discussion, but what is that "they didnt master combat, they mastered how mod work".
dude, this will always not be combat but a game. seriously, train to fight within the possibilities of the game and get better.
other people manage to be very good with the same dam equipment you have, its NOT the game, its your capabilities. which is a good thing because you can do something about it.
furthermore dont forget a risen shield does not mean a blocking shield, consider shield speeds etc.
bla bla. people always want the mod changed to their likes instead of just enjoying the game.
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The "speed" of a swung weapon can be very fast no matter the weapon. What is slow is getting that initial acceleration and deccelleration. That is where the weight of the weapon and grip makes a huge difference. That being said, using certain techniques a motion that changes the acceleration vector can decrease the amount of time spent accelerating and deccelerating.
That being said, looking at the animations of mount and blade. There should be a pretty rediculous "recovery" time between swings because the technique is crap for minimizing your weapons "dowmtime".
If you want to see this downtime reflected better in game, everything is unbalanced, decrease swing speeds, and increase the sensativity of detection of speed bonus and hilt slashes.
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Speed to length ratio is superior for 2h + polearm weapons...
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Speed to length ratio is superior for 2h + polearm weapons...
what
please tell me you didn't go around dividing weapon length by attack speed, it doesn't tell much of a story.
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That british weapon historian douche demonstrated on some show how people would fight with a halberd or a poleaxe. It was a lot different than how people fight with said weapon in this mod. Point is, stop bringing realism card, it rarely works out and it usually makes you look like a fool. Except of course, you have something bad to say about archery.
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Well if the length to speed ratio is higher, its gunna appear as a faster weapon...
A very short weapon with alot of speed, can easily get spammed by a longer weapon with less speed but a higher L:S ratio.
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Seems like Thovex glaivetrolled someone? :mrgreen:
Shortspear OOOODIN STYLE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF9kM5oDMV4
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removing jumping attacks and limiting rotation after release would go a long way to balancing mod~
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removing jumping attacks and limiting rotation after release would go a long way to balancing mod~
...would slow down the game even more and as such make cav and archers even more prevalent since killing anything in melee would be completely impossible?
Also no jump attacks is retarded and makes fighting cav as a 1h (and 2h to a certain extent) stupidly hard, forcing everyon to bunch up with the polearms... Fun! :rolleyes:
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Well if the length to speed ratio is higher, its gunna appear as a faster weapon...
A very short weapon with alot of speed, can easily get spammed by a longer weapon with less speed but a higher L:S ratio.
That's because of length. Guy with a shorter weapon needs to get in range or facehug, otherwise he'll get hit. Also hiltslash...
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Well if the length to speed ratio is higher, its gunna appear as a faster weapon...
A very short weapon with alot of speed, can easily get spammed by a longer weapon with less speed but a higher L:S ratio.
not really. the L:S ratio is higher, but so is the distance the weapons end travels. or do i get something wrong here.
whatever. NERF EVERYTHING!!
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That's because of length. Guy with a shorter weapon needs to get in range or facehug, otherwise he'll get hit. Also hiltslash...
Yep, that's pretty much why the speed to length ratio is important to check. Two weapons of equal length, if one is faster it has a higher S:L ratio. you can then compare that to the S:L ratio of other weapons and get a decent indication of the 'real' speed of the weapon.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM&feature=related
shit goes down faster than you think, young padathingy.
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Fighting with a 500 gram broomstick :rolleyes:
Office sitter arguments.. :lol:
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Dunno about that video but wooden practice weapons used to be heavier than the real deal. Which makes sense helps building up muscle and stamina for when the time comes to use a real weapon.
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1. Swing a hvy longsword/axe/mace anything designed to be used vs armour 1H then 2H and see which is faster. Its the 2H by the way.
2. Light, whippy 1H very fast but utterly useless vs metal armour. More realistic would be hyper fast but never damage. Probably best to stick with less realistic compromise model.
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1. Swing a hvy longsword/axe/mace anything designed to be used vs armour 1H then 2H and see which is faster. Its the 2H by the way.
2. Light, whippy 1H very fast but utterly useless vs metal armour. More realistic would be hyper fast but never damage. Probably best to stick with less realistic compromise model.
Indeed.
Swinging a weapon which is about ~60cm long and has a weight of ~1.0kg is allways faster if you swing it two handed and the damage is also way higher.
I own medieval weapons and armors myself.
I have a 76cm long 1.15kg heavy warhammer and a 92cm long 1.1kg heavy sword.
Both can be wield with one or two hands.
The warhammer is about 50% and the sword is about 20% faster when you swing it with both hands.
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1. Swing a hvy longsword/axe/mace anything designed to be used vs armour 1H then 2H and see which is faster. Its the 2H by the way.
2. Light, whippy 1H very fast but utterly useless vs metal armour. More realistic would be hyper fast but never damage. Probably best to stick with less realistic compromise model.
There are no swords that were designed to be used against armour. You can't cut through mail or plate with a sword, and you also can't pierce it with a stab. It might work well against cloth armor, but really, this type of armor can be pierced and cut by practically anything.
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Honestly not many swords could even deal well with chain mail beyond a half-swording thrust. For example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ec6Ub7FM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-ec6Ub7FM). You would just bludgeon the guy to death through his mail.
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Indeed.
Swinging a weapon which is about ~60cm long and has a weight of ~1.0kg is allways faster if you swing it two handed and the damage is also way higher.
I own medieval weapons and armors myself.
I have a 76cm long 1.15kg heavy warhammer and a 92cm long 1.1kg heavy sword.
Both can be wield with one or two hands.
The warhammer is about 50% and the sword is about 20% faster when you swing it with both hands.
I own butterknives that are heavier (= have more weight) than your heavy warhammer. What material its made of? Some superlightvulcanglas or something?
Its hard to motivate myself for an arcade game after Skyrim anyway. =(
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One of the "issues" is that the gear is from such different periods. I'm not an expert, but I was led to believe (from reading Bernard Cornwell books) that the big polearms and two handed weapons of history were invented to deal with--i.e., bust through--plate armour. As fun as it is to shout "shield wall!" in cRPG, I thought shield walls were pretty much a Dark Age thing, because once people had heavier armour, you needed both hands for your weapon, more than you needed a board to stop you from getting stabbed through your leather or shitty chain or whatever.
In other words, balancing the game and realism are entirely opposite objectives. We could all just go play Vikinr, I guess...
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I own butterknives that are heavier (= have more weight) than your heavy warhammer. What material its made of? Some superlightvulcanglas or something?
Its hard to motivate myself for an arcade game after Skyrim anyway. =(
No...
vulcanglas is very expensive these days :wink:
My war hammer is from Cold Steel.