cRPG
Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: engurrand on February 13, 2012, 07:31:02 pm
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People are generally afraid of bots.
Common opinions are:
"i don't play a multi player game to play against cpu"
"bots are stupid"
"No... just no"
among other things.
In general i have always seen room in online games where player controlled bots can enter the field. of course this idea can go incredibly wrong and quickly lead to a "playerless world" where there are very few players and lots of bots... But, people are so afraid of bots they wont even spend a little time trying to think creatively about them.
needless to say, i think bots would add an interesting edge to start play, but it would have to be done right. I have a few ideas on how it could be done right, but most of these ideas are more so suggestions for experimentation routes that would lead to insight about further implementation directions.
Am i reviving an old topic or does someone have some similar thoughts or good arguments against bots.
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NO
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In strategus, using bots to fill in empty slots would result in wasted gear and tickets, as you can't use anywhere near the same tactics with bots as you can with real people.
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I'm making a mini-mod now that has better balanced factions for player controlled bot battles. I don't think bots are right for c-rpg right now though.
The problem with bots is that they can do some things adequately, but other things very poorly. For instance, bots make decent archers and infantry, but poor cavalry (no avoidance of pikes) and terrible horse archers. Thus, the use of bots would distort the composition of armies so to take advantage of the roles bots are good at.
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In strategus, using bots to fill in empty slots would result in wasted gear and tickets, as you can't use anywhere near the same tactics with bots as you can with real people.
I remember not bad «trainer» bots at 22nd duel server.
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I remember not bad «trainer» bots at 22nd duel server.
They are ok with duelling when you mod them to inhumane reflexes. But bots can't do group fights or non-infantry combat correctly. If you allow bots from the same team to hurt each other, it's insta tk massacre.
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Now obvious we can see that there are some issues with bots. Poor at doing some things, skewing of battles towards bot army skills.. But we need not restrict our thinking of what bots are. Why should bots be fully complementary player replacements? Consider this... there are certain builds that are superior to others at dueling, those builds are in essence "manifested" because of the specific conditions of the game mechanics. How could you really argue that a change in army type because of new game mechanic is different whether it comes from bots or character creation stats and skills adjustments and nerfs?
For example, why couldn't bots be thought of simply as infantry? We have to consider how it is that the bots will appear on the battle field and be controlled. The specifics of how they will be controlled is vital to even beginning to understand how they would be used.
A question i have is do we have to make it so a bot takes a player slot?
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Cause we don't need them. Cause they don't work good enough. Cause fighting bots blows. Cause we already have singleplayer.
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yeah lets introduce bots so strategus becomes a game of who can abuse the terrible AI the best
a++ idea would read again
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I'm not going to put 2k of shit on bot. Its hard enough getting the quality players you want to show up and cut mother fuckers down.
Bots are just too shit. They will die on mass and waste all your gear and tickets.
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Would be lovely to have AI Lords from native :D
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NO
K
In strategus, using bots to fill in empty slots would result in wasted gear and tickets, as you can't use anywhere near the same tactics with bots as you can with real people.
Obviously. Bots are not supposed to replace real players.
I'm making a mini-mod now that has better balanced factions for player controlled bot battles. I don't think bots are right for c-rpg right now though.
The problem with bots is that they can do some things adequately, but other things very poorly. For instance, bots make decent archers and infantry, but poor cavalry (no avoidance of pikes) and terrible horse archers. Thus, the use of bots would distort the composition of armies so to take advantage of the roles bots are good at.
I agree, i never said this would be easy to implement. I tried to make it clear from the beginning that no one even has a good idea of how to implement it, and they wont even think creatively about it because they are reactionary. I try to think of what exists and then add to that to make it better, and that is a trial and error process that requires some effort of thought rather than emotion and rage.
They are ok with duelling when you mod them to inhumane reflexes. But bots can't do group fights or non-infantry combat correctly. If you allow bots from the same team to hurt each other, it's insta tk massacre.
They need not be highly skilled, perhaps they can be fodder intentionally. Also, what about the single player bots? they follow orders well enough. Is there only one type of bot?
Cause we don't need them. Cause they don't work good enough. Cause fighting bots blows. Cause we already have singleplayer.
You cannot say that there are no methods of bot implementation that would not make the game better... considering that no experimentation with bot and player battles has ever been done- just as much as i cant say it would be a success, for there are many things to consider and test.
The possible ways of implementation is vast. They don't need to work "good enough", they need to be considered in terms of what they are capable of. As was mentioned before, they make decent archers (anyone lacking archers in start??? :D ) and infantry.
Also, "we" is not everyone. There are a lot of people out there that would enjoy to have their nameless selves and 49 person armies outfitted as peasant bogarts to be slaughtered when no one will sign up for their "pointless" battle.
I'm not going to put 2k of shit on bot. Its hard enough getting the quality players you want to show up and cut mother fuckers down.
Bots are just too shit. They will die on mass and waste all your gear and tickets.
That is kind of the point. What i am imagining is fodder infantry basically. Yes, it's hard enough getting decent players, and when your not part of a clan / respect / known it's hard enough getting anyone at all.
Would be lovely to have AI Lords from native :D
Interesting idea... I'm thinking bots in battle / siege mode start battles only though.
I still have question:
do bots have to take up a player slot on a server?
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Bots will never work in strat or battle
All maps that support bots have to be AI-pathed which is an extremely painful task to perform and gets exponentially harder the larger and more complex maps get
In addition, sieges on strat have NO preplaced ladder so it is IMPOSSIBLE to get AI over the walls.
You cannot make an AI mesh for a dynamic map with deployable ladders and such
tl;dr: we cant re-AI mesh every map in crpg for such a feature
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"we cant re-AI mesh every map in crpg for such a feature"
why is that? Dont have to do all, maybe just a few or one to experiment with the feature...
Humans with a little AI vrs Humans with a little AI, nothing ranked or whatever, just a little experimentation.
How would we begin to edit the AI pathing?
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Also they should add the capture lord thingy, like if the lord in a castle / village got defeated, he should taken to prisoner instead of spawning somwhere else, then the lord need a payment to set him free. the faction will then pay for him in exchange to free the man. sounds like a deal
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Also they should add the capture lord thingy, like if the lord in a castle / village got defeated, he should taken to prisoner instead of spawning somwhere else, then the lord need a payment to set him free. the faction will then pay for him in exchange to free the man. sounds like a deal
Lol i was just thinking about this today at work.
I know that this is not a medieval simulator but capturing lords was mega profitable back in the day. Just cant think of how it would work for strat
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bots together with humans wouldn't work imo. but having strategus where people would be commanding bot only armies would be interesting. but then we're going into completely different game.
i remember that early in warband beta i had awesome time while playing 3v3 while each of us controlled like 15 bots.