cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Felix on February 12, 2012, 01:00:01 pm

Title: Loompoint Price
Post by: Felix on February 12, 2012, 01:00:01 pm
Loompoints' prices are skyrocketing for no particular reason - i remember buying loompoints for 350k-400k last year. Now it's coming to 600k and i won't be surprised if it reaches 700k in next 2 months. Why's that happening? The demand for heirlooms has increased and ppl need more looms? The supply of looms depends on how often ppl retire. Do we have shortage of retiring ppl and that is a reason for huge price shift?
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Boerenlater on February 12, 2012, 01:05:38 pm
Or gamechanging patches require the need of new looms. Maybe? That's my idea.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: ArysOakheart on February 12, 2012, 01:06:04 pm
Greed
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Tzar on February 12, 2012, 01:31:20 pm
If you haven't noticed by now the market place is just a place where people can avoid the upkeep system by ripping off other people
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on February 12, 2012, 03:39:01 pm
Some people are offering 500k gold to buy for example for a courser
That means that if you want to buy a loompoint you have to beat this offer , or the heirloom point seller will heirloom a courser instead of sellin loompoint.
So loompoint are always more expansive that the bigger gold offer in the market.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Bongo Fury on February 12, 2012, 04:49:58 pm
Inflation, it's simple, more money is coming into crpg through round ticks than going out of circulation (repairs, or players quitting being an example).

Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Mtemtko on February 12, 2012, 06:17:08 pm
Actually more is going out than in, that also explains why so few people are buying/selling stuff on market compared to half a year ago, and people obviously beeing greedy/wanting money for upkeep increase the prices, not to mention that the big traders are gaining from the inflation, they also help it
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Bongo Fury on February 12, 2012, 06:33:08 pm
Quote from: Mtemtko on February 12, 2012, 06:17:08 pm
Actually more is going out than in, that also explains why so few people are buying/selling stuff on market compared to half a year ago, and people obviously beeing greedy/wanting money for upkeep increase the prices, not to mention that the big traders are gaining from the inflation, they also help it

There is definately more money coming in than going out, remember over a long term people can break even with over 50k.

What you've described is down to the fact that looms/cash are being concentrated in the hands of a shrinking minority of the community. It's pretty representative of real life, certain people just hoard wealth, the fact that there's less people selling expensive looms coupled with the fact that people have a growing amount of income means that the sellers can now dictate prices more effectively - hence a sort of inflation.

At the end of the day its not just greed, people are selling looms/points for the price people are willing to pay for them. You can be as unrealistically greedy as you like, but your not going to find a market for your goods.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Corwin on February 12, 2012, 06:42:54 pm
Quote from: Felix on February 12, 2012, 01:00:01 pm
Loompoints' prices are skyrocketing for no particular reason - i remember buying loompoints for 350k-400k last year. Now it's coming to 600k and i won't be surprised if it reaches 700k in next 2 months. Why's that happening? The demand for heirlooms has increased and ppl need more looms? The supply of looms depends on how often ppl retire. Do we have shortage of retiring ppl and that is a reason for huge price shift?

Apparently we have an inflation in cRPG, and I would say around 20% a month. That means that more money is produced/grinded than spent on upkeep, so the overall amount of money available grew. Therefpre, we have increased prices of both loompoints and loomed gear. In the long run, this will fuck up the whole system.

Simple solution - increase the upkeep of everything.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Felix on February 12, 2012, 06:57:29 pm
Quote from: Corwin on February 12, 2012, 06:42:54 pm
Simple solution - increase the upkeep of everything.

Or introduce new ways for ppl to spend money - i.e. taxes. One should stimulate spending, ppl shouldn't hog all money for upkeep and looms.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Miwiw on February 12, 2012, 07:01:32 pm
Taxes? Like "Oh shit I entered eu1, there are 120 slots so I pay 12k gold because 1 slot costs 100 gold taxes for me. Damn I wish I was joining eu2 with 80 slots, because I would pay less money..." ? Yes, people would have to give away their money with that.  :P
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Bongo Fury on February 12, 2012, 07:06:48 pm
Quote from: Felix on February 12, 2012, 06:57:29 pm
Or introduce new ways for ppl to spend money - i.e. taxes. One should stimulate spending, ppl shouldn't hog all money for upkeep and looms.

This is a better solution, something like cosmetic items.

Any kind of adjustment to the upkeep system needs to really well considered, too much of a change straight away could throw all kinds of balance out of whack. Also people will just change their gear setup so they ARE making money, in many cases inflation is pretty much inevitable.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Felix on February 12, 2012, 07:09:05 pm
We could apply taxes if character is looming second set of armor, weapons, leg armor etc. For example, if you have already retired with, say, leather armor once, you will have to pay additional money to heirloom some other armor (gothic plate) - 100k for +1, 200k for +2 and 300k for +3.

Though it shouldn't be neccesarily taxes. Players may need some kind of tweaks and small-time bonuses for monetary charges.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Bongo Fury on February 12, 2012, 07:18:43 pm
Quote from: Felix on February 12, 2012, 07:09:05 pm
We could apply taxes if character is looming second set of armor, weapons, leg armor etc. For example, if you have already retired with, say, leather armor once, you will have to pay additional money to heirloom some other armor (gothic plate) - 100k for +1, 200k for +2 and 300k for +3.

Though it shouldn't be neccesarily taxes. Players may need some kind of tweaks and small-time bonuses for monetary charges.

It's not a bad idea, but it's pretty complicated, probably not going to be very popular with the comunity either  :)

The website could just start selling vanity items (which cannot be sold back on) for various sums, this would effectively give something for the richer members to spend their money on and take that money out of distribution.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Diablo on February 12, 2012, 07:31:14 pm
Current prices seem reasonable to me.

Playing my character from level 0-31 I earn around 300k golds.
I'm willing to pay 300k / 450k for (+1) item.

Count 600k / 750 golds for (+2) seems interesting
+ A little bonus for keeping the article for two generations.

Count for 900k / 1.050k golds (+3) seems interesting
+ A bonus for keeping the item for 3 generations.

beyond these prices it is more interesting for me to work alone its improvements.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Felix on February 12, 2012, 07:40:36 pm
Quote from: Diablo on February 12, 2012, 07:31:14 pm
Current prices seem reasonable to me.

Playing my character from level 0-31 I earn around 300k golds.
I'm willing to pay 300k / 450k for (+1) item.

Count 600k / 750 golds for (+2) seems interesting
+ A little bonus for keeping the article for two generations.

Count for 900k / 1.050k golds (+3) seems interesting
+ A bonus for keeping the item for 3 generations.

beyond these prices it is more interesting for me to work alone its improvements.

You mean along with your "natural" heirloom (i.e. the one your character produces when he retires), you also have money to buy one more? 2 heirlooms per generation seems a little bit too much  :?
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Malaclypse on February 12, 2012, 07:43:34 pm
I remember Rhaelys doing some maths awhile back:

(click to show/hide)

So the max amount of gold you get in a gen is around 430k, without factoring in any upkeep at all, to start with, with you getting less and less gold the more you retire. If people can get more than that they're going to, that's just how it is. Personally 600k is the absolute highest I'd go, and I'd probably still just wait for a better deal. 550k is what I've payed for my past five purchased points, and I feel like that is a fair deal.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 12, 2012, 07:47:56 pm
Increasing upkeep (addressed to those points made earlier) is a terrible, brute force idea. Preferably the low items would stay the same, mid tier would be slightly increased, high tier even more so. This of course assuming that upkeep needs to be raised at all.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Slamz on February 12, 2012, 07:49:05 pm
Probably came from people abusing first gen characters < level 25 getting infinite money (no upkeep).

Did they ever do anything about that?
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 12, 2012, 07:50:20 pm
Quote from: Slamz on February 12, 2012, 07:49:05 pm
Did they ever do anything about that?

Yup, now I think you start paying if you break 10K in reserve, or some such crap like that.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Penguin on February 12, 2012, 08:06:55 pm
Quote from: Malaclypse on February 12, 2012, 07:43:34 pm
I remember Rhaelys doing some maths awhile back:

(click to show/hide)

So the max amount of gold you get in a gen is around 430k, without factoring in any upkeep at all, to start with, with you getting less and less gold the more you retire. If people can get more than that they're going to, that's just how it is. Personally 600k is the absolute highest I'd go, and I'd probably still just wait for a better deal. 550k is what I've payed for my past five purchased points, and I feel like that is a fair deal.

He did not factor in repair costs though. My character is relatively light with few repairs, but I only have made about 200k my first gen and about 150k this gen (about to retire)
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Tanken on February 12, 2012, 08:18:58 pm
Diving in a little bit to what has caused the price increase...

1. A few months back when Strat was first coming around and getting heavily played--no one was retiring. So you saw the prices rise from 400k up to 450k-500k.
2. Archery then, and Archery now -- During this time, more people were wearing heavy armor to combat archers. They got nerfed, but are now rebuffed some and armor users are wearing it more -- Prices rise to 540k.
3. Simple inflation. Those that are selling their loomed items can now demand anywhere from 200-500k more than what they used to be able to on MW items. These are the same people offering to mass-purchase looms at 550-600k.


I don't think it will turn tail and run unless there is a massive week filled with loom points for sale and people having to part with them for under 530k for a regular period of time. I've sold a few loom points in my career, first one I got 380k for, next was 440k, more recently 550k.

I hope it goes back down, it makes those of us not playing the Market system unable to obtain high-priced items without the dedication to play through 3 generations to obtain it.

Tanken
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Malaclypse on February 12, 2012, 09:28:30 pm
Quote from: Penguin on February 12, 2012, 08:06:55 pm
He did not factor in repair costs though.

Quote from: Malaclypse on February 12, 2012, 07:43:34 pm

So the max amount of gold you get in a gen is around 430k, without factoring in any upkeep at all, to start with, with you getting less and less gold the more you retire.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 12, 2012, 09:53:04 pm
LOOM POINTS R EXPANSAVE MUST BE GREED

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Corwin on February 12, 2012, 10:19:06 pm
Quote from: POOPHAMMER on February 12, 2012, 09:53:04 pm
LOOM POINTS R EXPANSAVE MUST BE GREED

(click to show/hide)

You are assuming that there are still lo of people playing Strategus. That's just not the case.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Rhaelys on February 13, 2012, 01:42:53 am
Quote from: Penguin on February 12, 2012, 08:06:55 pm
He did not factor in repair costs though. My character is relatively light with few repairs, but I only have made about 200k my first gen and about 150k this gen (about to retire)

Quote from: Rhaelys on May 20, 2011, 05:52:00 am
The maximum amount of gold you could gain in a single generation is actually at generation 1, because with higher generations the amount of XP you gain per tick is higher, but the amount of gold you gain per tick remains the same.


Thus, with 8,735,000 XP needed to retire: (I do not know the exact values for the last three digits, but it's inconsequential)

8,735,000 XP/1,000 XP per tick = 8,735 ticks x 50 gold = 436,750 gold

This holds regardless of multiplier, because gold increases by the same proportion that XP does. Consider the case of a perpetual 5x multiplier:

8,735,000 XP/5,000 XP per tick = 1,747 ticks x 250 gold = 436,750 gold


Now let's consider the worst case scenario.

You gain the least amount of gold when you receive maximum XP ticks, which is set to 1,450 at a x1 (generation 16).

8,735,000 XP/1,450 XP per tick = 6025 ticks x 50 gold = 301,250 gold


What was the point of this post?

I don't know.

max·i·mum   [mak-suh-muhm]  Show IPA noun, plural -mums, -ma  [-muh]  Show IPA, adjective
noun
1.
the greatest quantity or amount possible, assignable, allowable, etc.
2.
the highest amount, value, or degree attained or recorded.
3.
an upper limit allowed or allowable by law or regulation.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: rufio on February 13, 2012, 11:58:38 am
and what it all boils down to ...... people in crpg with enough money to buy looms are fuckin retarded leechers who dont contribute whatsoever to multiplyers, they are the rotten oozing filth in this community that care not for battlefield glory but, to eventually trot about in shiny stuff, while still being the fuckin retarded scrubs they are.... now probbably im gonna have to pay more for my fun while these maggots just will continue grinding / leeching on their cheap ass gear..

*also what would be way better is if you can sacrifice an alt + heirlooms to main , for lets say ~30/50 k, as a different option to the lvl 5 bs. basicly person is still sticking his time into getting the loom himself + paying xtra (xtratime) for the transfer.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Malaclypse on February 13, 2012, 12:02:51 pm
Quote from: rufio on February 13, 2012, 11:58:38 am
maggots just will continue grinding / leeching on their cheap ass gear..

I do pretty decent in cheap clothes, still using good weapons though. I feel like high armor is a detriment to this mod.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on February 13, 2012, 02:08:08 pm
People are treating the market as a market. Buying low selling high. The price of loom points is related to the value of objects in the market. Who is going to sell a loom point and not be able to afford a loom? Why would you not just loom something like armour and sell it if you wanted cash.

The result is a co-dependant price relationship. The constant inflation is "normal" constant money is entering the system. If the value of money is being depreciated by it constantly growing then the prices are also going to keep going up.

Its possible to earn a rather tidy some of money playing a light cheap archer for a gen or light infantry. A cheap 2 skill shield and Yanmaodao + Byrnie and a nice hat is going to cost very little to maintain. As all that money filters into the system it helps to push the price up.

The trouble is we don't know how many trades are really going on and we have no simple way knowing how much liquidity is in the market. For all I know very little money is actually moving around and instead most of the movement is trades.

Another thing that was causing inflation was money coming out strat. People were able to transfer cash out strat at a 10-1 rate. If I pushed out my strat money at 10-1 right now I would walk out with over 1.2mill. And that's what was happening a month or two ago. Huzzah for inflation.

TL:DR don't have a shit fit, its normal. Prices rise, its called inflation.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Idzo on February 13, 2012, 02:12:35 pm
Selling loom for 800K! It sings, cleans and he can satisfy volunteer's egoistic needs!
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Leshma on February 13, 2012, 03:11:13 pm
Quote from: Malaclypse on February 13, 2012, 12:02:51 pm
I do pretty decent in cheap clothes, still using good weapons though. I feel like high armor is a detriment to this mod.

This is my current set and I love it. I think it's very stylish.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


However, an admin told me that I should use more "appropriate" gear. So much about freedom of choice...
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: rufio on February 13, 2012, 03:58:49 pm
leshma your a leecher cunt!! :D and fuck inflation theory's , shit yo its people trying to pull shinanigans that got the prices this high.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Kharn on February 17, 2012, 01:34:33 am
Money is worth less because of rageball.

Rageball is the place where we can now all go nearly naked with no regrets.
Title: Re: Loompoint Price
Post by: Oggrinsky on February 17, 2012, 02:20:03 am
Personally, I feel like I have a unique request and that's why I'm offering 600k. Seems like the average price is 550k and because there aren't, relatively, many people who have 6 PT I need to offer more to make sure I can get a point. Otherwise it's very possible that that person with 6 PT will just loom a non-throwing item and I'll be shit out of luck until another thrower retires.