cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 01:12:11 am

Title: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 01:12:11 am
ok here is my point
our market place is a paradise for scammers capitalists and additionally is producing leechers/semi leechers in this game which is supposed to be a battle game.
suggestion :
make fixed loom prices like 300k - 400k per loom point put on market.
Quote from: Kulin_ban on February 05, 2012, 09:27:56 am
You cannot apply 1+2+3 loom value here without taking into account that each loom brings you closer to the maximum possible +3, thus giving each weapon state much increased price.
valid objection there ... so it might be better to have fixed loom tier price like
+1 ~ 300k
+2 ~ <+1> + 350k = 650k
+3 ~ <+2> + 400k = 1050k
?
additionally one might state that the plain item price should be added to the loom cost so it would result in:
 loom tier price + plain item price.


reason:
i dislike peasant clothed wooden stick wearing chars laughting in my face while i try to do the job on the balltefield.
not that i wouldnt understand there are reasons for wearing low gear sometimes ,its even fun for me to do so sometimes but ... the overall tendency and temptation for leeching is fun breaking and thats not even the worst kind of greed produced by the current market place implementation. the only thing marketplace interface offers is a look on overpriced items aiming to rise the profit you can make in the marketplace forum! thats what newbies are faced with.
scamming fooling new community members became a normality in this current market place... resulting in a bad picture newbies get from the game.
also there is actual prices for loom points and some gear .. that make me only laugh in a sick way.
i am one lvling 31+ (2h) and if i wear a decent gear i have really low gold income even if i give my best it is not really worthwhile. i need about a month or more to earn the gold for a new +1 loomed weapon or for one loompoint to put on my gear (playing each day!).
im not even complaining about the low lvl restricted loom exchange from alts (sacrifice) introduced in last patch that dont benefit high lvl chars. im fine with it.
but the tendencies and implications with this current market place for the community make me sad mad. and i still want to get payed for my work.
so :
stop promoting scamming and leeching
make fixed loom prices
until we get a marketplace interface which grants overview over the "real" prices.

for the sake of the community
ty

Quote from: indigocylinder on February 05, 2012, 05:18:37 am
what exactly do you mean by scammers?
i mb have overgeneralized this term scamming there which means exploiting bugs to actually "steal" from other players afaik.sorry for that ... lets call it cheat or trick or fool someone.
what i meant is that the unconnected market place (the place where ppl believe to see the current prizes for items) from trade post section in forum(where the real crime trade take place) is the gap that enables players to grow their item prices to the sky. the real trades made are barely the ones where someone puts a honest offer on the market and waits until someone buys the item. real trades are made in the trader forum and only see  the market place for a very short period of time ; thats after parties have agreed about the price in the trader forum. yet the character page market place is the place new members will believe to see the current prizes for items!
imagin me putting a mw long dagger on the market for 2mill gold (where i never believe someone will buy it for that silly price) and also offering it on the trade forum as an auction not really argeeing to any good offer. this is already a faked offer. you can bet that others will jump on the train and rise their prices for mw long daggers in the following time. and i will sell my long dagger for a price way over its actual worth if i only wait long enough.
it also works the other way around where you make silly cheap payment offers to new forum traders and make them believe their items are not worth much. i know this happens! then you only need to wait until the new trader will possibly sell you the item for a very cheap price... especially rare items which are not easy to find in the market suffer a reference value prize.
thus the trader forum unconnected from market place supports heavy prize manipulation since there is no indepedent price reference list.
not at last this system heavily reflects on the loom point prizes btw.
i dont blame the traders to exploit this system since its only natural to do so yet im tired of it...ty
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Gurnisson on February 05, 2012, 01:19:03 am
Quote from: Micah on February 05, 2012, 01:12:11 am
(without mentioning names like herkkutatti)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 01:25:07 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on February 05, 2012, 01:19:03 am
(click to show/hide)
i did what ? herkk is a funny and neat guy and i like him .. yet he is so offensively and openly leeching , its not a secret at all and that it makes me think ...about the concept of the game .. ty
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Herkkutatti on February 05, 2012, 01:26:23 am
I sold all my looms when the prices raised to this level (who the fuck buys +3 item for 1,65mil??) and i stopped to be that famous leecher scum , nowadays i use same gear as goretooth :wink: 
(click to show/hide)
Also i was usefull leecher when we had ladders on siege , now i am just useless piece of shit :(
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 01:29:11 am
to get this straight .. i dont complain about leechers .. i complain about the structure supporting this ...
in all honesty , i think its a smart way to behave in this game atm ;)
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on February 05, 2012, 01:50:34 am
Crafting should be a counter to this because you wind up with shit crafting in shit. But people don't care about strat :(

The people that leech in crap gear are boobs. Complete boobs.

Kaftan/leather gloves/rus cav boots + Yanmaodao + Round Cav shield = 13k gear cost. You will pull a huge amount cash out that gen. Or like a player in oz you go all peasant clothing and use a military fork, OldPeasant has great setup, he just has to avoid ranged.

There is no need to just use a stick except for the sake of "style" but if you want to be a cav man you should use a flaming tourch.
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 02:19:46 am
erm strat ? whats that =P
well ... idk how strat could care about things in crpg since its gotta deal with its own problems first tbh...ty
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on February 05, 2012, 02:56:30 am
market is broken
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: indigocylinder on February 05, 2012, 05:18:37 am
what exactly do you mean by scammers?
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 07:07:39 am
Quote from: indigocylinder on February 05, 2012, 05:18:37 am
what exactly do you mean by scammers?
i mb have overgeneralized this term scamming there which means exploiting bugs to actually "steal" from other players afaik.sorry for that ... lets call it cheat or trick or fool someone.
what i meant is that the unconnected market place (the place where ppl believe to see the current prizes for items) from trade post section in forum(where the real crime trade take place) is the gap that enables players to grow their item prices to the sky. the real trades made are barely the ones where someone puts a honest offer on the market and waits until someone buys the item. real trades are made in the trader forum and only see  the market place for a very short period of time ; thats after parties have agreed about the price in the trader forum. yet the character page market place is the place new members will believe to see the current prizes for items!
imagin me putting a mw long dagger on the market for 2mill gold (where i never believe someone will buy it for that silly price) and also offering it on the trade forum as an auction not really argeeing to any good offer. this is already a faked offer. you can bet that others will jump on the train and rise their prices for mw long daggers in the following time. and i will sell my long dagger for a price way over its actual worth if i only wait long enough.
it also works the other way around where you make silly cheap payment offers to new forum traders and make them believe their items are not worth much. i know this happens! then you only need to wait until the new trader will possibly sell you the item for a very cheap price... especially rare items which are not easy to find in the market suffer a reference value prize.
thus the trader forum unconnected from market place supports heavy prize manipulation since there is no indepedent price reference list.
not at last this system heavily reflects on the loom point prizes btw.
i dont blame the traders to exploit this system since its only natural to do so yet im tired of it...ty
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 09:33:17 am
Quote from: Kulin_ban on February 05, 2012, 09:27:56 am
You cannot apply 1+2+3 loom value here without taking into account that each loom brings you closer to the maximum possible +3, thus giving each weapon state much increased price.
valid objection there ... so it might be better to have fixed loom tier price like
+1 ~ 300k
+2 ~ <+1> + 350k = 650k
+3 ~ <+2> + 400k = 1050k
?
additionally one might state that the plain item price should be added to the loom cost so it would result in:
 loom tier price + plain item price.

Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Arrowblood on February 05, 2012, 10:10:58 am
burn poophammer :)
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Torben on February 05, 2012, 10:28:58 am
dont see how this solves anything.  people will continue leeching,   with lowered item prices they will simply acquire looms faster.

the hole idea of a free market is that prices are dictated by bid and ask,  and afaics we have surpassed the pinicle of priceses and are moving downward again

edit:  further more your system neglects value change through nerfs and buffs,  giving former items no chance of being traded away.
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 11:04:06 am
Quote from: Torben on February 05, 2012, 10:28:58 am
dont see how this solves anything.  people will continue leeching,   with lowered item prices they will simply acquire looms faster.
you got a point.
wouldnt it yet be less encouraging ppl to leech if there wasnt that market centric POV?

Quote
the hole idea of a free market is that prices are dictated by bid and ask,  and afaics we have surpassed the pinicle of priceses and are moving downward again
is that so? will it be a solid state?
unmoderated bid and ask will not result in an ballanced/fair state ; it will result in few rich trying to mass up wealth and exploit the poor ones afaik.
we all know that game .. it sux

Quote
edit:  further more your system neglects value change through nerfs and buffs,  giving former items no chance of being traded away.
if i got your point right you think fixed prices make it hard (or even impossible) to get rid of "bad" items which you can still sell cheap on current market?
well ... ok.
would it be impossible to solve this problem?
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: De_Gothia on February 05, 2012, 04:59:48 pm
The free market must be forever.  :evil: :evil: :evil: :mad: :mad: :mad:
How much I want to sell. this as much as I want.
and who wants to buy, buy it.
No one is forcing anyone here.
Your passwords are communist.
Dear Stalin  :lol: :lol: :lol: Out of love for his people  :shock: :shock:
lack of democracy and freedom  :shock: :shock:
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 05, 2012, 11:00:48 pm
Quote from: De_Gothia on February 05, 2012, 04:59:48 pm
lack of democracy and freedom  :shock: :shock:
ahahah where did you get this rethorical abomb from  :cry: :cry:

Quote
Dear Stalin  :lol: :lol: :lol: Out of love for his people  :shock: :shock:
dear joe  :wink: :wink: :wink:, pls dont point THAT gun at me people might get hurt  :( :(

Quote
Your passwords are communist.
erm .. Yes No?

Quote
No one is forcing anyone here.
well .. you should know ...
(click to show/hide)

Quote
and who wants to buy, buy it.
... if he has the gold to do so

Quote
How much I want to sell. this as much as I want.
... because im a beautiful butterfly ?  :mrgreen:

Quote
The free market must be forever.  :evil: :evil: :evil: :mad: :mad: :mad:
..  and ever , and ever , and ever , and ever , and ever , and ever , and ever ,and ever ,and ever ,and ever ,and ever ,and ever ,and ever
..because its the holy gral of humanity  and makes us all so happy :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :D :D :D

seriously man ... i dont want to take freedom from anyone , if you have read my post it says
Quote from: Me Micah in the OP
until we get a marketplace interface which grants overview over the "real" prices.

But : Yes, you are right in one point
it is a choice to make out of free will from free people !
.. that are able to reason and act if its needed.

..ty
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Garem on February 05, 2012, 11:10:32 pm
No.

Pay attention, don't be stupid.

I would, however, be in favor or recording the deals that people make. You can look at someone's history before dealing with them. This is especially useful for trading heirloom points, where collateral is often quite complicated.
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Kafein on February 05, 2012, 11:17:12 pm
We are able to act and to reason, as such it is reasonably expected that people will sell and buy for the amount of gold they see fit.

Forcing prices will destroy the market. Are you willing to sell your heirloom point for 400k ? I am not, and nobody is. This suggestion is among the most stupid I've ever seen.

If the average Joe wants to sell item A for 500k and no less, yet "the authority" says he can't sell it for more than 400k, what will he do ? Nothing. Killing the marketplace is not a solution, whatever the problem might be. Furthermore, I don't see what the problem is. Many people use light gear but help the team a lot with that. Heavy and expensive equipment isn't necessary better when used in "real" situations.

This might be a little too optimistic, but I do believe that every human has brains, or at least all the cRPG players. And they should be able to use a marketplace with their brains. If you are "scammed" but no bug or unexpected event happened, you were scammed by yourself for accepting a bad deal or setting up one yourself. For those that are too shy or lack information to use it, there's still the possibility of not using the marketplace. Yes ! You aren't forced to use the marketplace ! This seems to be hard to understand for some people though. Free will is hard ?


The reason why loompoint prices (heirloomed items followed) skyrocketted is because it's a tedious grind for very little gain. Anyone with even little experience of the game would prefer (from level 0 gen 1 cold start) reaching level 33 over getting 4 looms. The advantage is much bigger. That's why there are very few people selling heirloom points and that leads to very high heirloom point prices, which will lead in the future to an increase in the amount of heirloom point sellers, due to the increasing benefits of it, this increase will lower the prices, and so on. As you see, the whole thing balances itself nicely.

As I see, the main concern seems to be the manipulation of prices. Well, I don't see how anyone can manipulate prices atm. It would require an awful lot of money, and nobody has enough to even possess a tenth of all the heirloomed items for sale in the game. Any idiot knows the offers on the marketplace in great majority either are "fair" deals for both parties, or biased towards the one that set up the offer. This is pure logic. Actually, when there are two people putting similar offers, the visibility on the marketplace forces both to lower their prices until one decides then don't want to sell under a certain limit (or both agree on a price but then they will sell it slower). Visibility can not raise prizes when nothing is sold, nor can it lower them when nothing is bought. Even if prices don't please you, you have to accept them, as the entire community agreed on them. What you can do is either waiting, or taking the deal now and hoping to make more money with what you got.
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: De_Gothia on February 06, 2012, 07:48:19 am
Kafein this is great  :D

I, for example: i sold Nodachi +1 for 291,111  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: leechers,scamming,marketplace fix
Post by: Micah on February 06, 2012, 11:58:28 am
enough !

ty ...