cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Kansuke on January 29, 2012, 10:39:36 pm
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Back when I started crpg a year ago there were only a few people using kicks during duels but now it seems it became a common tactic when fighting a 1 hander. I'm having hard time dueling against those players who mastered the kickslash move such as some greys and other well know people.
Because of the lower reach of 1h weapon it's sometimes hard to avoid the kick range when fighting 2h or polearms without backpedaling and it's even harder with a shield because of the extra weight (note: I always duel without shield).
I'd like to have some advice about this, is there a good way to deal with the systematic kickslashing when fighting a good player with a short weapon ?
Sorry for the poor english.
edit: oops wrong section, anyone could move this to the beginner's section ?
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Backpedal just like them until they are bored and start actually fighting you.
Alternatively, you can try moving in a less predictable manner. Which involves being less guided by what swing they use to determine your movement direction, but that's hard.
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Always stay out of kick reach. Defensive style, make them bored by blocking a lot and mix simple fast swings with short held swing while staying out of kick reach. Use thrust if they kick a lot since it can't be blocked while kicking.
I almost never duel, but that is what I do against kickers.
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Just keep strafing. If they have to keep turning they won't be able to land a kick.
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Just keep strafing. If they have to keep turning they won't be able to land a kick.
A good kicker might predict your strafing movements and get a kick in even when you're strafing. Strafing around your opponent might work, but there's also more risk involved.
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People might be a kickspammer but you are 1h spammer thats even worse.. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Use thrust if they kick a lot since it can't be blocked while kicking.
This is something I didn't know, I'm bad at trusting but I should start to focus on it :lol:
Also most of the kick occurs when the opponent just launched an attack and it's my turn to attack so I come closer to him and that's where I get kicked. Like Lezard said strafing is risky since it's predictable and I hate when someone backpedal so I don't do it myself.
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Another reason why I think 1hander is the worst melee class.... :cry:
The way to deal with it is always keep your distance just far enough... unless you're using a pick or something. Sometimes circling them works really well but not for long.
Best and most obvious advice: Don't be predictable!
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During my previous gen as a 1hander I've found out that going Urist style (with some modifications) on all those people with their generic danish great swords works best (ie. blockblockblock, when they're backpedaling: only chase to pretend you're going to fall for the inventible kick that's gonna follow only to strafe to the right side at the right time so you end up in their back when they're still immobile due to the kick they've just delivered.)
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During my previous gen as a 1hander I've found out that going Urist style (with some modifications) on all those people with their generic danish great swords works best (ie. blockblockblock, when they're backpedaling: only chase to pretend you're going to fall for the inventible kick that's gonna follow only to strafe to the right side at the right time so you end up in their back when they're still immobile due to the kick they've just delivered.)
THIS.
If you know they are a kicker, bait the kick as you move diagonally past them, instead of directly at them, so as the kick reaches full extension you are behind them with a "held" head height swing, chopping their head from behind, follow with faststab to the neck to finnish.
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I kick a lot so I know about its weakness. When facing a good kicker I pretend to facehug with left swing spam and backpedal quickly with a thrust to the face when I anticipate the kick
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I've never been kicked besides from Aldryk because NA is no-skill. Even SaulCanner failed :mrgreen:
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... NA is no-skill...
QFT.
Hence the high amount of lolplate, spamberge, and bec de OP clutching in the NA servers. :mrgreen:
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hmm i couldnt say i hardly play in EU so i cant really make stereo types of it
my last gen was 1h long espada (21/15) i never really had a problem do to the fact i was rather spammy and back peddly as well
my tip would be to just keep your distance like 2-3 feat just enough out of their attack range(but not too far) and when you find an opening close in and strike
never move in straight lines always juke and zig zag never follow them, its instinct to chase something thats retreating(its a sign of weakness)so if you turn away unless their rather defensive they will follow,if not they will break off to fight someone else
i suppose i good example would be out boxing if your familiar with boxing
During my previous gen as a 1hander I've found out that going Urist style (with some modifications) on all those people with their generic danish great swords works best (ie. blockblockblock, when they're backpedaling: only chase to pretend you're going to fall for the inventible kick that's gonna follow only to strafe to the right side at the right time so you end up in their back when they're still immobile due to the kick they've just delivered.)
^this is great its not only for kickers its great crowd control they never expect you just to run forward through the mob itself and to hit the one with his guard down,and even if they do expect it with experience you can put yourself in positions where ugo through the crowd and strike the only one in position to hit you.during this process they do a lot of team wounding(if not killing eachother)
eventually you will learn to position yourself accordingly,please note this tactic works best with high ath imo 6 is minimum any lower your pushing it(im learning the hard way with my 4 ath build i survive a while but eventually the in circle me)
just try these as a last resort its just something you learn by trial and error u cant really force the situation(nor would you want to)
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Realize that your 1h has a surprising amount of reach due to animations, and grants you higher movement speed which nets you even more. (in practice)
But yeah, baiting the kick is usually a very good idea, and the thrust-thing is completely true, even though the window where it's unblockable is very small.
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I've never been kicked besides from Aldryk because NA is no-skill. Even SaulCanner failed :mrgreen:
SaulCanner doesn't need to kick you. He just beats you down through attrition and a 99% blocking success rate.
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But yeah, baiting the kick is usually a very good idea, and the thrust-thing is completely true, even though the window where it's unblockable is very small.
Basically you have to start the thrust at the same time as your opponent kicks, or it will be too late. You have to anticipate the kick of course. Or just thrust randomly and hope for a kick.
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I recognize the problem. Katana users suffer from this aswell, and I've tried the thrusting thing but the katanas thrust is a little unpredictable.
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Yep i rarely use kicks and i suffer against 1h, it is really the best counter to them i guess.
*Holds S and continually presses E
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I recognize the problem. Katana users suffer from this aswell, and I've tried the thrusting thing but the katanas thrust is a little unpredictable.
Hot_Chick uses a katana and imho, giving it thrust actually nerfed it; the thrust is only good for frightening enemies, you generally get hit yourself if you try and use a thrust with a katana. I usually only see kicks against shielders, because it has the additional effect of magically making your shield go intangible for nearly a second even when you resposition. I don't know this, but I wonder if you have a particularly fast weapon whether you could respond to the kick by attacking? The other option is yourself to kick if you sense one coming - it is possible for two opponents to kick each other at the same time, with amusing results.
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It always had a thrust. The thrust got nerfed at one point, though.
And I refuse to give up the thrust from the katana. It's still useful. Just don't use it if you don't like it.
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It's pretty easy to avoid getting kicked, just play defensively, i.e don't facehug.
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It always had a thrust. The thrust got nerfed at one point, though.
And I refuse to give up the thrust from the katana. It's still useful. Just don't use it if you don't like it.
Katana thrust for the kill is ultimate pisstake :D
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When you are kicked, it means that the enemy had predicted your path. What they do, is lead your movement, so they will kick you at their guessed path. What you really have to do, is be unpredictable, like others said.
How to do that? I don't know :?.
I always was a pikeman but if i am dueling i use a LHB and just side spam with the occasional feint.
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It's pretty easy to avoid getting kicked, just play defensively, i.e don't facehug.
That last part is a bit hard, as the range difference between weapons almost make it a must to face hug.
If I stay at the tip of the range of my 100 reach 1h, my enemy can swing, step back to dodge my swing while swinging and hit me with his longer weapon. 1 small misjudgement from my side instantly puts the enemy out of reach for me, while I'm still in his reach.
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This works so great for me.
Just let them strike you at your block, then you delay an right swing .
Dont move forward just hold your ground they will notice your not walking in what they want.
Then they will usualy try to attack again, but then right before the pole/2handers walks forward to strike again you just release the delayed right swing and walk forward a BIT.
This was my main teqnique with arabian cav or winged mace.
EDIT : or get mw long espada enslovana and spam thrust and make them regret for kicking, it worked so awesome.
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get yourselves a horse and leave the petty infntry in fear !!!
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What worked best for me as 1h is moving while strafing (=> W+D or W+A). You won't advance in a straight line and nearly most people will miss the kick due to that and get their face slashed. At least that worked wonders against your Grey-Kickers...
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oh btw um no one uses becs and spambergs in NA anymore(for now atleast i hardly ever see them)
and theres like.....no plate crutchers like there use to be
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The flavor of the month is now transitional armour crutchers, much more economical to be honest.
Becs fell out of favor because the Officials have enough room you can do footwork unlike maps of old (I for one am seeing a rise in AGI characters).
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I always swear at kickers in chat after they beat me.
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How to deal with the kicker
1) be quick
2) never be in front of your oponent, alway stay slightly on the left or on the right (its also help greatly for spamm, or attacking behind a shield ^^)
3) Stay at the limit of you're reach.
or you can juste take a spear. :D
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i thought i was a mad man when i noticed them
and the strange thing is they actually do well
maybe it was the nerf of armors but they seem more viable
so much so i used a sct and saw it was quite more effective then anticipated i assumed it would glance like a nerf bat but actually it hardly glanced at all
(3/33 pole wpf 197 1 ir 1 ps 5 sh 11 ath 11 wm Scyth pilgrimrobes with leather gloves kergit boots)
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Kicking in duels is really cheap, but its effective. Then so is facehugging, hilt striking and trololo-insta-spin thrusting.
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"Don't be predictable", yes but how, here are a few tips:
1. When you are attacking, make random strafe directoins, but also, move back and forth simoustainly. The main thing here is "random".
Keep walking in and out of his kick range and/or his attack range also. One mistake i tend to make is, making a leftswing while walking to the right.
Good kickers can usually anticipade this, so always, do 3-4 feints WHILE change your direction.
2. Range. It is easy to say "stay out of their range", but it is hard to do, bacause the above step has to have been mastered first.
Furthermore, if you're fighting with a short weapon, this can impossible to do.
The best defence IMO is, to anticipate when he is going to kick you, so here are a few things I do, when I get conteniously beating by a good kicker:
1. In every fight, I try to see at which combos my oppenent tries to set up a kick. I have found out, that if I run straight at my oppenent, and attacks with a left/right swing,
he wil usually kick me, since he can get a kick in before my swing hits him. However, if I do the same thing EXCEPT this time, I feint and backpadle while setting up a thrust,
I can usually get a hit in. This maneuver can be difficult with a short weapon.
2. If my oppenent keeps backpadleing, and therefore keeps getting kicks in, I'll usually run out of his range and just follow him, until he gets frustrated and charges.
Also try not to be lured into a confied space, as he will kick spam you to death, since you have no space to manoeuvre.
3. Don't attack a two hander alone, get a buddy. If you have a buddy, then he can be ready to attack if/when you get kicked - this tend to work really well, and in every scenario.
4. When you meet your oppenent dont just charge right into him, this goes for duels also. IMO, it is usually in the first attack round that I get kicked, usually because I just
rushed in, and diden't have a plan. So take your time to see you oppenents play style, you got all the time in the world(In duels anyway).
5. Duel every good kicker you can. If you dont pratice, you will never get better, and learn how to defend yourself.
My 50. cents
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Uh I do all of this, except kicking :D
Strat kicking and i bet you'll win more :D
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5. Duel every good kicker you can. If you dont pratice, you will never get better, and learn how to defend yourself.
This, and the hate stops 8-)
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Lol, like how people are giving Kansuke (who is one of the best one handers) advise on stupid things like "dont be predictable" and all. :D
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I thought you of all people would have an answer to that question, Kansuke. I can't block your feints at all, you tricky motherless goat.
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Use jump! :P
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Spam and sidestep the kick.