cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Rasputin on February 25, 2011, 08:15:49 pm
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Some weapons need serious overhauling and balancing, and that shouldn't be prevented, but should consider to offer respecs if there are major changes to the current main weapons, just so people can feel like they didn't waste 1-3 generations into a single item, and allows them to try something new or the same thing again.
This coming from a 2nd gen, so I don't even have a masterwork yet.
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I agree. I suspect one of my heirlooms (poleaxe) will become unbalanced in which case I want to have a reimbersement on my heirloom of it :D
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Tremble before the wrath of item unbalance!
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I SPY A THIEF! THIEF IN OUR MIDST!
Yep, I would greatly appreciate the option to respec weapons, perhaps for a cost of 10k or 20k per respec. Enough to make you take a respec seriously, but not enough to be disgustingly prohibitive.
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There will be HEIRLOOM TRADING. Probably with prices about 100k and up. And you want to have a chance to change heirlooms when there is rebalance? Maybe weapon you stopped to like, i.e. barmace without crushthrough, will still be great weapon for archer?
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I SPY A THIEF! THIEF IN OUR MIDST!
Yep, I would greatly appreciate the option to respec weapons, perhaps for a cost of 10k or 20k per respec. Enough to make you take a respec seriously, but not enough to be disgustingly prohibitive.
Lol that would be dirt cheap, a fair price for heirloom respec would be 100k/modifier.
As for trading I highly doubt you will be able to buy heirlooms for money, probably just switch them. Or I don't know who would sell his heirloom for money, I know I wouldn't.
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Yea, want to trade masterwork long dagger for masterwork heavy lance...
Can you imagine that? Cuz I cant.
Isnt it looking much better:
Guy a)
Want to sell masterwork long dagger for 60k!
Want to buy masterwork heavy lance for 120k!
And guy b)
I want to make a long dagger face hugger, i take long dagger!
And guy c)
Wanna sell masterwork heavy lance for 130k!
Guy a)
I want to buy it for 120k!
c) again:
Ok, deal.
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i like the trading thing, but i think we should have some kind of currency that cant be grinded to tarde with; lets call this currency X for now.
then i think you should be able to sell a heirloom (to the website) for y X, and then you should be able to buy another real guys heirlooms for a certain amount of X, and you would only be able to gain those X by selling your current heirlooms.
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We don't need currency if trading will come into the game. People will just point out which weapon they offer for which in return.
Easier.
But, I'd rather not have stuff like this. I say no to respeccing heirlooms, build a character for once because you like the style, not because it's overpowered. If you want to heirloom a barmace because you know it's overpowered, than don't whine now. You knew the consequences.
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Make it cost 500k. Problem is that those who go for the OP weapon of the moment will just respec to the next OP weapon when they get balanced.
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How about Number of trades = character generation or generaton/2 or something along those lines?
Dunno, just an idea *shrugs*
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heirloom respecing on a regular basis would also be nice so people would not be locked to class as much
as it is, having an heirloomed 1h means you will probably stay 1h, but whats the point??
ability to change heirlooms would increase diversity of gameplay for those that would want to change their style.
+ the fact that you would not feel screwed over by rebalance.
PS: before you say "you made the choice now live with it"
consider:
upsides:
+balance(some will always choose the op alternative, now everyone has equal opportunity)
+playing with the gear you like
+getting to change your style(looks and class)
+system that does not need new fixing every time items are rebalanced
downsides:
-more OP heirlooms(however more evenly distributed, so not really a downside:))
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I agree with ^ , just put a 100k fee/modifier (so it's 300k to reheirloom a masterwork, for example) and it will be fine.
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There will be HEIRLOOM TRADING. Probably with prices about 100k and up. And you want to have a chance to change heirlooms when there is rebalance? Maybe weapon you stopped to like, i.e. barmace without crushthrough, will still be great weapon for archer?
Can't you understand me? THERE WILL BE A WAY TO CHANGE YOUR HEIRLOOMS: SELL YOUR ITEAM AND BUY ANOTHER ONE!
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You're assuming every item will be available for trading. Don't. Having to rely on the willingness of other players to trade is a horrible idea. We've all spent a massive amount of time working towards our heirlooms, and I don't think a price to respec per heirloom is too much to ask. We've already DONE the work to get it.
I'd like to try a Deadly Military Pick instead of my heirloomed Steel Pick. How would I go about that?
Know anyone who's heirloomed a Military Pick three times? I don't...
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Make it cost 500k.
You do realize that 500k gold would require ~83 hours of naked leeching to obtain? Or ~114 hours with 10k of gear on? Or ~181 hours with 20k of gear on? Or ~440 hours with 30k of gear on? A generation 4 character can retire 3 times and masterwork a new item in ~160 hours.
Also, could people please stop implying that everyone wanting to change their heirlooms is running off for another broken item? I came VERY close to masterworking the long awlpike instead of the normal awlpike after the post-patch heirloom theft. In the next patch, they took away the ability to use the long awlpike with a shield. I do not remember having seen a creditable player call the long awlpike overpowered, and I do not know if I would still be playing cRPG if I had picked differently on what was basically a coin toss.
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Yes I know how much that is. Cause I have it. And I have done zip to earn it. It's been free money for me.
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Pfffft. We've already gone through a huge timesink to get the heirlooms... adding another huge timesink to switch heirlooms would be straight-up cruel and insulting.
Also, basing the trades on Generation is unecessarily hard on newer players. They already have it hard enough!
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the problem is, that if this is free, you would need no more than 3 heirlooms, then you would be able to have a masterwork whenever you change build.
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I just feel like if people think like they wasted to much time into something they don't use, they might just quit playing the mod and the playerbase gets smaller and smaller.
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Not everyone is you. We dont need morons who just take OP weapon, heirloom it and then cry after nerf...
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Heh... I have a truckload of heirloomed stuff I don't use, because I wandered between various classes, archer/polearm, crossbow/polearm, 1h cavalry, etc ;P
Would love the ability to change heirlooms but oh well.
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As much as I think all the people using bar maces should go die in a fire, should still offer a weapon change when the weapon is thankfully made useless.
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Barmace shouldn't be made useless. It should just loose it's ignores your block and still swings faster than you feature.
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I am gen 14 so i have lots of heirloomed items,
so far i have heirloomed only items that I plan on using my final build (horsearcher)
but I think it would be nice to be able to respec heirlooms for a fee (i dont know how much maybe 10-25k per respec so 30-75k for a masterwork)
I think you would see more people trying out different classes rather than everyone heirlooming only the most powerful/OP items
I like trying out unique classes and a switching it up alot but if I want to try a unique build like a shortbow archer or a dagger user
masterworks are going to help alot and putting 3 gens into a build that might not even work and gives you a deadend item would be a waste of time.
Even if they limited it to one respec per gen +goldcost it would still give you the chance to eventually switch the heirlooms around.
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I like trying out unique classes and a switching it up alot but if I want to try a unique build like a shortbow archer or a dagger user
masterworks are going to help alot and putting 3 gens into a build that might not even work and gives you a deadend item would be a waste of time.
Even if they limited it to one respec per gen +goldcost it would still give you the chance to eventually switch the heirlooms around.
this, next gen im gonig to try out a quarter staff build, but i won't spend 3 generations on it, so i can only get a 1 loomed quarterstaff that i will probably only use 1 gen.
I also like changing classes and weapons alot, so i end up with a bunch of balanced items :D
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Well, nothing prevents you from making a x build with a regular x. I do so all the time.
If you let them switch to easy heirloom is just a general stat boost to players who played longer whichever class they play. This will never beat the awesomeness of being in possession of the coveted unique Deadly Quarterstaff.
I'd rather be able to borrow it to someone I deem worthy (enter name on site, he can use it from his inventory, remove name, he can't anymore). Another news, slightly off topic though, I'm looking for a boy that carries my weapons and watches my back.
edit: It has to be capitalized, ofc.
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To me, heirlooming an item means it has a special meaning to you, its not just another weapon. I've only loomed my swords.
I realise its very few players who feel this way, but this means for me that i don't worry about my items getting rebalanced - the dev team won't destroy any weapons special feeling.
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These are my thoughts on the issue:
#1, Heirloom Respecs: I don't think it's necessary to allow respecs at all, EXCEPT when stat changes to an item are made by the developers. When this happens, anyone who owned an heirloomed item that had it's stats modified should be offered the opportunity to select a different item to heirloom. As WaltF4 pointed out, not allowing this can be very frustrating for a player who put lots of time into developing their build.
#2, Heirloom Trading: Honestly, I hear people cite this as a solution to issue #1, when it simply isn't so. While heirloom trading may help SOME people, and COULD be a nice feature, I doubt it will be used often. Ultimately, the majority of people who no longer want an heirloom probably don't want it because changes were made to the item that make it something totally different from what they want (ie, it sucks). If this is the case, such as the situation with the long awlpike, which was made to be unusable with shields, you'd likely have problems getting someone to trade the devalued item for an item that you want.
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I agree with Ramses, heirloom for me is special, and like him i have heirloom my sword(cleaver), i will not change even with modification cause it fit with my style (i choose it more for the style than to be op).
Heirloom should be choose carefully, and unchangeable, it comes from your ancestors. The last reset on heirloom was not made to allow ppl to change but because there were too much heirloom.
But it could have exception, like long awlpike that has been completely change. I guess the problem is that a lot of players choose weapons which are op at the moment and are always in search of "best" build and best weapons.
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I guess the problem is that a lot of players choose weapons which are op at the moment and are always in search of "best" build and best weapons.
This isn't a "problem". It is the nature of an MMORPG. Some people will always try to get the best loot/gear, and as long as there is imbalance, other people will blame those people. But it's not their fault that certain equipment is better than others. And I find it hypocritical and counter-intuitive to blame people for using the equipment that is most effective. It happens in every MMO out there, because it's human nature. Not using the best equipment is akin to being a sadist.
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This isn't a "problem". It is the nature of an MMORPG. Some people will always try to get the best loot/gear, and as long as there is imbalance, other people will blame those people. But it's not their fault that certain equipment is better than others. And I find it hypocritical and counter-intuitive to blame people for using the equipment that is most effective. It happens in every MMO out there, because it's human nature. Not using the best equipment is akin to being a sadist.
I am almost agree with you regarding human nature and the principle of MMO, instead, i'm not using the best equipment cause i found that using the Black Armor is really masochistic, it's so ugly!
However I hope there is nevertheless some players who do not choose only their equipment because it is OP, but also for style.
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totally agree, there no reason why not. don't grief your player base. free mod is supposed to be about fun.
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+1
Every time a weapon is nerfed, owner of such heirloomed weapon should have option to change it for something else. That's fair solution.
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However I hope there is nevertheless some players who do not choose only their equipment because it is OP, but also for style.
There are. I was just pointing out 1 of the many reasons people play RPGs. Many other people are more concerned with having a unique style/image, and my point was, there is no reason to say one style of play or reasoning for playing is any better than the other. People play for their own reasons, and do so in the manner that is most enjoyable to them. Celebrate that, don't punish it.