cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: chadz on February 25, 2011, 12:02:20 pm

Title: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: chadz on February 25, 2011, 12:02:20 pm
Answer me those 2 questions (especially b):

a) what do you think of current autobalance (either by banner or the normal one - although they work on the same principle)
b) how exactly do you think a proper autobalance for cRPG should work? you can make up any variables you want, bringing a formula doesn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Siiem on February 25, 2011, 12:04:45 pm
I wouldent mind a clan banner server DB if that is possible, where tags are added to a banner. Would be sweet, please tell me thou can do this?
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Phazey on February 25, 2011, 12:10:08 pm
at the risk of stating the obvious:

a) i love the banner autobalance and like the normal system. it seems to work pretty well.

b) i think it's really nice if the auto balance system takes banners into account: being able to end up on the same tean with friends and clanmates is a must-have feature. for general game balance, it might be nice to somehow take player level and / or kill to death ratio into account aswell.

in general, i'm pretty happy with the current system, to be honest.  :)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: SteelDevil on February 25, 2011, 12:28:48 pm
banner only or no auto balance :p

would seem hard to fix the thang.. mm

well how bout just evening out the numbers so both teams have equal player numbers, by taking the ones lowest in the list (the teamkillers afkers or simply the unlucky ones ) to even out the teams
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: SteelDevil on February 25, 2011, 12:46:02 pm
mm heres a suggestion for you^

remember how we play in two teams ? sarranid vs nords for instance ?

what if u renamed the whole thing into 2 permanent kingdoms at war ?

so every round u will have 2 the same parties

and now for the balance what u do is u let all the existing clans choose one of these kingdoms

for instance clans who are at war with each other can join opposite kingdoms which puts more fuel into it^

and same for alliances between clans can be strengthened of course by always being on the same site.

what i mean with choosing is a permanent choice which lets u join only one kingdom, the information being saved on the crpg char page, also u could change the desired kingdom there.

and for non clan ppl they oughta be able to choose freely ( no autobalance. )

of course that would bring a problem with it too cuz if u have too many on one site of course it wouldnt function properly, but u could make it function by filling up the slots that are missing with the non clan ppl :>

that unique enough of an idea?^^
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: SteelDevil on February 25, 2011, 12:54:42 pm
clan leaders acting as vassals of the very kingdoms, their soldiers as their army :>

its called cRPG after all. :D:D

and yes i dont like the edit button^
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Punisher on February 25, 2011, 01:02:11 pm
Banner balance should be replaced by faction balance - just make a faction field in your cRPG page that is linked to your Strategus faction. This way clanmates can fight together without having random people wearing their banner for autobalance purposes. One big flaw in the current banner balance system is that sometimes 2 clans get to fight on one side versus a bunch of random people. It would be fair that clans that have more than 5 members online (just an example) get assigned to different teams.

Also the balance system should somehow consider the class people play (to keep it simple, if you have a horse you are cav, a bow/xbow ranged, otherwise infantry) and keep the numbers even, there are a lot of situations when a team gets most archers or cav and this usually leads to that team getting the x5.

With the current balance system, 80% of the maps either a team doesn't get balanced enough and wins 5-0 or it gets completely destroyed by the autobalance after the first round and loses 1-5. But this is also due to the highly unbalanced singleplayer village maps that roll on EU1 and EU2, where the defending team wins most times.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Vexus on February 25, 2011, 01:03:21 pm
Banner balance is good but sometimes it fucks up and makes teams unbalanced say 1 team having 90% of the archers/cav while the other team having very few.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Joxer on February 25, 2011, 01:16:48 pm
Make it so that the spectator cam is locked on the view of your own team mates. That would reduce TS cheating quite a lot. Other than that I think it might need few tweaks here and there. Too much 5-0 going on.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: POOPHAMMER on February 25, 2011, 01:27:24 pm
Banner balance more like banner stack. It is nice to be able to play with my clan on the same team and all, but when I see about 20+ people from the TS clan on the same team (using them as an example because I saw this happen the other day, could be any large clan) repeatedly rolling over the enemy it makes it a bit unbalanced for whoever isnt on the team with the bigger clans.

Autobalance is for balance, not stacking. It really does severely throw off the balance sometimes.

Also what that joxer idiot said about not being able to spectate the enemy is probably the first intelligent thing I have seen him post and I think that is a good idea to prevent people on voice chats from hunting down certain players after one of them dies. It happens more than you think.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: SteelDevil on February 25, 2011, 01:34:18 pm
Banner balance more like banner stack. It is nice to be able to play with my clan on the same team and all, but when I see about 20+ people from the TS clan on the same team (using them as an example because I saw this happen the other day, could be any large clan) repeatedly rolling over the enemy it makes it a bit unbalanced for whoever isnt on the team with the bigger clans.

Autobalance is for balance, not stacking. It really does severely throw off the balance sometimes.

Also what that joxer idiot said about not being able to spectate the enemy is probably the first intelligent thing I have seen him post and I think that is a good idea to prevent people on voice chats from hunting down certain players after one of them dies. It happens more than you think.

gotta have a small dick for that kind of thing :d

might aswell make a bountyhunter mod out of it^
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Christo on February 25, 2011, 01:40:18 pm
I wrote a topic with a suggestion, I'll link it here.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2389.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2389.0.html)

TL,DR: It's about "class" balance, to even out the type of players on both teams, so both teams have about the same "loadout" of players.
No ranged imbalance, no cavalry imbalance. I think it can work, if possible.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Punisher on February 25, 2011, 01:42:12 pm
I wrote a topic with a suggestion, I'll link it here.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2389.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2389.0.html)

TL,DR: It's about "class" balance, to even out the type of players on both teams, so both teams have about the same "loadout" of players.
No ranged imbalance, no cavalry imbalance. I think it can work, if possible.

I agree but it can be much simpler - you equip a bow/xbow -> you are considered an archer, you equip a horse -> cav, no horse/bow/xbow -> infantry.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Christo on February 25, 2011, 01:44:08 pm
I agree but it can be much simpler - you equip a bow/xbow -> you are considered an archer, you equip a horse -> cav, no horse/bow/xbow -> infantry.

Or this, It was just a quick idea without consideration. A simpler, yet effective version of my idea. This is a lot better, ty Punisher.  :wink:
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Spawny on February 25, 2011, 03:08:35 pm
Fix autobalance on the siege server.

Right now, other than having fun, there's no reason to play on the siege servers. You'll be spending the majority of the time at a 1x modifier because every round 50% or more of each team gets balanced.

Yesterday I played on siege and a clanmate on TS played the same time on battle. He made twice the amount of exp I made. This could be just bad luck (and the testsample is way too small), but overall the exp/gold is a lot lower on siegemode.
I have never had more than 2-3 rounds on a x5 multiplier in sieges, where my record so far on battle is 16 rounds on a x5 multiplier.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Espu on February 25, 2011, 03:35:08 pm
Right now, other than having fun, there's no reason to play on the siege servers.

Quote of the year.

I say we remove xp and gold gain from all servers.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Wookimonsta on February 25, 2011, 03:35:16 pm
other than having fun, there's no reason to play on the siege servers.

GO HAVE FUN!
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Leiknir on February 25, 2011, 03:45:02 pm
I have never had more than 2-3 rounds on a x5 multiplier in sieges, where my record so far on battle is 16 rounds on a x5 multiplier.
While some poor guy had 16 rounds of x1 in battle. I think it is fine in siege, you are able to get the x2 and x3 easier, but x5 is more scarce.


Ontopic: I don't know what to change, it feels good right now (playing mostly siege and small battle servers with friends). Seldom you get a map with 4:0. I remember when the DRZ did clanstack half of one team, they went 4:0 first, but every round another good player of their team got balanced over, the map did end with 5:4, was quite nice seeing everything working that nicely.
Ideas like sorting by cav/inf/ranged won't really work. I got 5 riding and a charger, am I cav now? Not really, I only use them on few maps or when playing alone and music turned on to the max. And you can't balance me after I spawned with or without a horse, I think there are plenty people that got riding just for fun out there.
The idea about sorting by strategus faction is a nice idea, but what are 2 buddies that just want to play together, yet are in different factions, going to do?

Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Spawny on February 25, 2011, 03:45:41 pm
I play exclusively on the siege servers, so having fun is all I do :)

It's just annoying when clanmates advance generations twice as fast in the same playtime. They can try more different builds/playstyles/etc. Especially when I have a feeling it's being caused by the autobalance which is what this thread is about.

While some poor guy had 16 rounds of x1 in battle. I think it is fine in siege, you are able to get the x2 and x3 easier, but x5 is more scarce.

You have the same chances to get x2 as battle and I have yet to get a 10 round or more x1 streak in battle. Unless you are really unlucky and hit a few 1:5 or 5:0 maps while being balanced to the losing team all the time. But that never happened to me.
The average multiplier is a bit higher for battle.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Kalam on February 25, 2011, 03:48:25 pm
With banner balance, we can usually guarantee a x5 for an hour or more. o.O

To most of us, of course, that's awesome, but I believe it might be a problem for pubs.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Leiknir on February 25, 2011, 03:51:03 pm
You have the same chances to get x2 as battle and I have yet to get a 10 round or more x1 streak in battle. Unless you are really unlucky and hit a few 1:5 or 5:0 maps while being balanced to the losing team all the time. But that never happened to me.

Pure statistics, why should the % chance to get a 10 rounds winning spree be any different than the one of a 10 times losing spree? (not counting in GTXs, ofc)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 25, 2011, 05:07:23 pm
I am  happy with the banner balance.

I want this, and only this at the moment: Break the Spectator mode where if you die, you can only spectate members of the same team you were on when you died.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: 3ABP on February 25, 2011, 05:22:49 pm
Answer me those 2 questions (especially b):

a) what do you think of current autobalance (either by banner or the normal one - although they work on the same principle)
...
After "banner ballance" options implementation all other balance options for me and my friends - are no more acceptable.

Current autobalance is a very good step to the right direction (banner balance)
Very good, but only as a first step. Here is need at least one more.

I (and my friends) very like this new options "autobalance by banner".
Now we just can't imagine - how it is to play without "banner balance"

But here is a some "bugs" or "not exactly correct working things".
(see below suggestions)

Answer me those 2 questions (especially b):
==========================================
...
b) how exactly do you think a proper autobalance for cRPG should work? you can make up any variables you want, bringing a formula doesn't hurt either.

First of all - It would be nice to see a current Formula (not a joke).

Let’s define some variables and some rules (what developing formula must lead):
(Btw here will raise questions that could apply not only to the current problem, but also to a wider class of problems.
Such issues will be highlighted in blue.

Team_X (Team_A and Team_B) = quantity of players in one team (A or B)
TotalPlayers = Team_A+Team_B = total players in both teams
Banner_X = quantity of players with one banner on the server (Banner_HRE or Banner_STR or Banner_Merc e.t.c.)
RoundDmgByPlayer_A = Damage dealt by player "A" to the enemy team in one round. If it can be stored and displayed at the end of the round - would be nice.
MapDmgByPlayer_A = Damage dealt by player "A" to the enemy team in all round on the current map. If it can be stored and displayed at the end of the round and at the end of the map -  would be nice.
PlayerWeightGlobal_A = "weight" of the "A" player (global, in long run_. Weight = helpfulness (correct word?) of current player to the team.
It can be as just a simple variable = kill\death, but also can be a complex variable = function of more than 2 (kill and death) variables.
Overall weight on very long time period (whole player\character live - counted from birth or from "rebirth" if it is a "child" ).
PlayerWeightLocal_A = "weight" of the "A" player on the current map. This variable added to avoid big counting process and wasting resources on that.
At the every map end - all info about player (doesn't matter exactly what info - just K\D or much more) sending to the main DB and PlayerWeightGlobal_A(old) recalculating with just received from server PlayerWeightLocal_A. And when new map starts - on the new map now will be showed on old PlayerWeightGlobal_A, but recalculated. So we can use 2 different variables to make a team’s more balanced - "long run" variable and "short run".
It is very good, because players can be very weak at start of playing by this character (some weeks ago), but if he is very good playing right now - we will count this too (I mean this will effect on team balancing too).

Faction_X_player_A - as today every person may choose any banner (and in fact all player may just come to server to see what are 2 biggest faction in current game and just to change own banner to one of the "biggest faction in the game" banner, and here will be only 2 ^) different banner on the server... and in this case "banner balance" will not work as designed.... so - to avoid this - read next...). So - we must have an info - does this player "A" with banner "X" really belongs to Faction "X". Before this BTW must be implemented "cRPG faction engine", what allow to players to send a request to join to faction, and allow to faction leaders to accept or reject this request. In this case only real faction members will be recognized as "players group", and "fake" members will be not counted (as it must be).


Here is 3 main procedures\algorithms oriented to split players\group_of_players into 2 teams.
1. Before first round - "first roster" splitting.
2. Some parts of algorithm may working at the every round end counting from the 2nd)
3. Full algorithm working only between round 1 and 2 - to let all player are able to join and all will be counted


=================================================
Lets start from this, because it is a "main" and other are only part of this.
Algorithm of splitting players between teams (banner balance oriented):
(3.Full algorithm working only between round 1 and 2 - to let all player are able to join and all will be counted).


Full Algorithm
(click to show/hide)
=================================================

What must be done after 3rd and all next rounds
2. Some parts of algorithm may working at the every round end counting from the 2nd)
(click to show/hide)

=================================================

1.Before first round - "first roster" splitting.
(click to show/hide)

That’s all.

A concrete realization (the exact values and other details) are not important.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Devilize on February 25, 2011, 06:10:51 pm
Answer me those 2 questions (especially b):

a) what do you think of current autobalance (either by banner or the normal one - although they work on the same principle)

I think banner balance works well overall, however, could use some work.

b) how exactly do you think a proper autobalance for cRPG should work? you can make up any variables you want, bringing a formula doesn't hurt either.


              When the balance system doesn't seem to work giving way for map scores of 4 - 0 before the next map rotation I find in large part that the team that won had a flood of a particular class that suffocated the enemy team. whether it be archers or cavalry I find that if the teams do not have a balanced ratio of classes and the conditions are right (cavalry map) one team could end up being slaughtered.

              Is there a way we can have the stats checked so that if 10 players have points into, for example, cavalry the majority of them are not placed on the same team. Yet at the same time keep the priority below banner balance.


              I've been given info, not from you chadz, but from people that work with you that player lvl is considered for balance. I think in some ways that's ok, however, in a game that puts more focus on player skill over player lvl I'm not sure that balancing lvl's would do much of anything. After all there are several players at lvl 15 that could put the beat down on a lvl 30 and many of them do. I also don't think that K/D alone can balance the system but it may be more accurate when added as a varible along with others.

              Instead of just considering the current K/D during the map rotation perhaps an added variable of long-term K/D pulled from the web host.


              I understand that since the latest taleworlds patch it may be possible to add a new stat, assists. Now that damage instead of just deaths can be recorded. If this is truly available the assist stat could also benefit the balance system as, namely, the archer class makes its living off of assist that are unaccounted for.

               This is kind of an alternative method to banner balance. There are obvious cons to this method but the pros are that people cant switch their banner on the fly to play with a clan that is the majority within a server. The balance system considers the player's first three letters and groups it to player names that alphabetically match those three letters. I'm aware people could just change their name but I see that as being few and far between.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: SteelDevil on February 25, 2011, 06:38:06 pm
another way is to put the ppl in classes on the site means let em choose infantry cavalry or archers
and have restrictions for these classes on the servers, means for instance 10 archers each side 10 cav 10 infantry

and in order to prevent the users from choosing the wrong class u wont let archers and infantry spawn with a horse, infantry wont be able to have bows

also give the 3 classes different colours in their names and game list.

that way at least u wont have 30 archers against 30 infantry for instance :d
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Heroin on February 25, 2011, 09:36:38 pm
a.) I think the banner balance is awesome. The standard auto-balance could use a bit of tweaking.
b.) I think the current formula is good, but I think it would be better if it was tweaked slightly with the following adjustments:

I think it would be a VAST improvement to auto-balance if it didn't ONLY take level and K:D into account. If you can track wins:losses, I think pairing the current system with a 1:1 win/loss system would be ideal, and make auto-balance function very well. There are some types of players that tend to make their team win without having a high K:D ratio themselves(ie, archers that constantly stun enemies who then get killed by someone else.)

I think if the above system were implemented, we'd see much closer matches.

NOTE: If we DO get an autobalance system in place that works so well as to be nearly even every time, I'd suggest we alter the XP system. It's a serious grind to get to level 30 at x1 or x2, which would be the average if autobalance worked as intended.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Immolarian on February 25, 2011, 09:43:11 pm
Team balance is fine at the moment if you ask me.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 25, 2011, 10:35:11 pm
With banner balance, we can usually guarantee a x5 for an hour or more. o.O

To most of us, of course, that's awesome, but I believe it might be a problem for pubs.
Yeah BRD (or any other coordinated group) takes a server for literally hours of x5 streaks unless an opposing clan shows up or the autobalancer breaks us apart, but that doesn't happen for very long. There are a lot of players who jut put our banner on when we are in and ride the train to 5x land. I think my current record is a 2 and a half hour X5 streak (at no point did I lose that multiplier) on the siege server, and I don't play that often.  I have only retired once after the new system was put in place. A normal day of CRPG consists of: Get on and get a 5x streak for an hour, get balanced away and lose it, get it back again for another hour. Repeat.

The current system is kind of flawed, but no matter what you do there will be some way that people will take an edge in the calculations over others. Having banner balance is absolutely amazing to be able to play with your friends and all -- but it doesn't guarantee it & it is a bit abusable with people who put on a winning clan's banner. The current balance system with banner balance favors small groups of elite players working together. period. Large clans can pull it off but to less of an extent -- they get balanced apart often. But a small number of say, 7 players or less, they will pretty much be guaranteed to be together. The random non-clanned player when a dominating force is in a server is relinquished to almost always having x2 or x1. It must really suck to play this game without competent friends unless you are some sort of beast that always goes 10-1.

I understand that we should be rewarded for doing well but it seems mean that everyone has to suffer such low XP gain while I'm almost guaranteed 5x for playing well with my friends. I honestly support a higher base XP gain (see: 2000 base EXP rather than 1k) but winning only makes it go to a 2x multiplier, and for it to not go any higher. As it is now I have hours of x5 when we play so if you made this change I personally would be getting less. However, the normal player would be getting more and the incentive to win IS STILL HUGE. This current system is mean to the average public player.

There really needs to be an internal 'buddy' or 'group' system in place where you can, for example, put in friends you want to play with or something. However, that would be quite a project to make so it won't happen. if you make the above change to the base EXP then the latter would be less important as banner balance wouldn't be some OP crazy thing. I like playing with my friends but this is... agh. I don't like feeling bad when we are killing them already.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: MrShovelFace on February 25, 2011, 10:46:25 pm
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1981.0.html

there u go chadz

basics of the principle is a self adjusting timer that finds, adjusts, and saves the optimal times for individual maps

(siege maps and possibly other game modes in the future)


This system would allow castles of both small and large sizes to be put on one server
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Toffi on February 26, 2011, 01:37:10 pm
I think the banner- balance works fine, that#s one of the good new things that you can finally play together with your friends. If you lose or not, it's just more fun.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Belatu on February 26, 2011, 02:34:28 pm
A) I love the banner balance

B) we can give a try to the Clan Tag balancem, prob you will have more clann than banners, thing that I think is good for the thing :wink:
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Leiknir on February 26, 2011, 04:19:44 pm
Balanace by clan tag sounds like a good idea at first, but many clans have their trial members running without the tag, but the banner, so they can test them out without having to fear for their reputation if the trial member turns out to be a retard
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: VicTheBear on February 26, 2011, 04:44:21 pm
A) Banner balance is great

B) Balance by class/level somehow?

I think the only way you could make the autobalance recognize differences in class would be to have the option of assigning your character to a class on the website, like a little dropdown menu to choose your class from. Mounted, Infantry/Footman, Ranged, Mounted-Range, etc...

And maybe somehow set it up so that you can only choose a class once you have a set number of wpf points in that class (which would also allow you to change class, depending on wpf points) The wpf requirement would keep the teams from being unbalanced by not allowing peasants who claim they're archers but can't damage anything because they've got 20 wpf from being stacked on one team or the other. Kind of like class balancing people who have a certain level/wpf, and then auto balancing (however it already balances) anyone who falls below that line.

Ex- Bob the peasant just started crpg and has 40 prof points in 2h but wants to be an archer now. Until he has X amount of prof points in archery, he can't officially switch classes (he can't even use a bow worth buying yet anyway so it wouldn't make sense for him to be balanced as a ranged class)
Or, Bob the 5th gen rich-bitch has 200 prof points in 2h and wants to mess with the auto balance by switching classes, but the system prevents him from 'lying' about his class thanks to the wpf rule.

This could also combine in-game kills/deaths to decide which player of each class is on what team that way no single team has all the 'top' archers or 'top' cav, etc...
But that seems more complicated.

Kind of a vague and overly-complicated idea but it's my dream for autobalance. Lol.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Keshian on February 26, 2011, 05:11:58 pm
Answer me those 2 questions (especially b):

a) what do you think of current autobalance (either by banner or the normal one - although they work on the same principle)
b) how exactly do you think a proper autobalance for cRPG should work? you can make up any variables you want, bringing a formula doesn't hurt either.

Hard to imagine cRPG without it now, most of the fun is playing with your friends on same team and suing real strategy and coordination agaisnt other clans.  2 things to improve: make it faction based linking to strategus or make your banner set by your faction, a lot of people put our banner on to be on our team and there are so many that are really caln mates don't get on the same team with us.  Also, see some weird balances where after we win we lose one of our best clan players to other team a lot as the only person switched, would much prefer we lose the 3-4 randoms, then the one clan member.  This system works well and if we are winning as a clan you start seeing 7-10 more people on opposing team then your own which is a good way to balnce it back until othe team starts to win.

The normal autobalance is really boring now and often switch servers to where banner balance is on even if its a different clan opposing and you don't have clan members with you.  the strategy used is really fun.

Faction, Level, current generation k-d (not k/d), equipment saved on website to start with (i.e. horse, bow, etc.) in that order  (45%, 30%, 15%, 10% weighted values)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Zisa on February 26, 2011, 09:17:07 pm
team balance is fine. Occasionally get a cav team or an archer team, etc, but if it was always the same that would just be more.. plain.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Mizuk on February 26, 2011, 09:36:46 pm
I like the balance as it is, even if im on loosing team i enjoy the challenge rather then just a gold/exp grind, as long as autobalance is not abused by n00bs that change to winning team its fine.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Punisher on February 26, 2011, 09:41:42 pm
Balanace by clan tag sounds like a good idea at first, but many clans have their trial members running without the tag, but the banner, so they can test them out without having to fear for their reputation if the trial member turns out to be a retard

By clan tag we mean a tag in your cRPG character page, just like the faction in strategus, not the in-game tag. A trial member could simply be invited into the clan than kicked if necessary without anyone else knowing :)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Serfonz on February 27, 2011, 06:20:48 pm
Banner Balance is good, but when you're not rolling with your clan. Auto balance can seem horrendous.

The problem I have with it is in Battle only, siege is fine as it seems to balance every round.
Some players are pretty random score wise, like myself I will sometimes get some sort of super power from Jesus and kill 9 people in a round.. The effect of this is auto balance suddenly gives me a really high score.. Which means I get put with a bunch of guys who got 1 or 0 kills. and the other team gets the guys with 2-3 kills (the guys who are actually good) So what does that mean? Next round starts I think to myself "omgawd im awesome!" and I run in heroically and get killed in 1 shot by a spear.  Result? My entire team gets slaughtered for the next 5 rounds because auto balance does not seem to rebalance after the 1st round unless the teams are unfair.

The other problem: Its late night, you wake up and are thinking to yourself Ima play some crpg till 7am, so you go and join EU 1 or 2 theres 7 archers, 4 melee and 3 cav. 1st round teams are fairly balanced due to random luck.  1 melee guy goes and slaughters everything.  Result: Team 1: 6 Archers 3 Cav 1 Melee  vs  1 archer 1 cav and 3 melee..

I can only think of one way to permanently make the system better and complete, and I am not sure if its possible.
You need to make every character have a persistent auto balance score, all it needs to do is scan the players K/D ratio off the char page or make a new one from when the system is implemented, along with scanning their WPF to check what their main weapon is.

I would suggest balancing by damage like someone previously suggested but I don't think the game can check that?

That way it can balance the good killers to what weapon they are using to make hopefully even balanced teams.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Tristan on February 27, 2011, 06:34:35 pm
Placeholder for a suggestion to be detailed soon.

Summary:
Change bannerbalance to a faction balance in which you assign yourself on the cRPG char page. This may be, but does not have to, be seperated from strategus.

Each person and clan gets a value calculated on global K:D, lvl, current K:D and current value of equipment (maybe...).
The clan value is used combined with nr. of members online, to make sure that each side has as close as possible equally strong clans.

After balancing out largest and strongest clans, it then balances small clans and single players. Idea is that, at least on one server, clanmates fight together, while still facing a worthy opponent.

On another server, the faction balance might be less strict or removed, in order to give people a chance to face off against each other and maybe better balanced teams.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Vibe on February 28, 2011, 09:39:41 am
Imho, banner balance is fine.
What I would also do is compare KD ratios of each player and then arrange them appropriately. I've seen autobalance put several high KD players on one team and a one metric ass ton of KD of 1 and lower on the other team. Example:

(click to show/hide)

Now the KD comparison should make it more like:

(click to show/hide)

Ofcourse we can't divide by zero, so we would need to add +1 to death count for each KD calculation. Making 15:0 score 15:1.
To make this work the system would need to calculate KD ratio for each player, then sort by KD, and then allocate every player to the appropriate team (according to KD ratio sum) - comparing both KD ratio sums at each player allocation to keep them balanced. The system would start at highest KD player and end at lowest. If both KD ratios are "balanced", the system adds players first to team1, second team2, third team1, fourth team2 and so on.
Example KD ratio list:

(click to show/hide)

The logic would be that at each next player the system checks both KD ratio sums, and if one of the KD ratio sums + this players KD ratio would still be below the other KD ratio sums last value, it would keep adding players to the first KD ratio sum, until the next player KD ratio addition would go over the second KD ratio sum. Even I'm not sure if I wrote that right.

Simple example (this is an extreme case and KDs are usually more balanced in practice):

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Quirian on February 28, 2011, 12:02:38 pm
Ultimate Formula for Autobalance :D


Quote
If Team A's Kill/Death Ratio (Total Kills/Total Deaths)*Average Level = Team B's Kill/Death Ratio (Total Kills/Total Deaths)*Average Level ± 10 % = Balanced
If this Value is achievable with Banner balance then banner balance, if not, not

I hope you can follow my genius logics :D
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Leiknir on February 28, 2011, 03:52:24 pm
I think the only way you could make the autobalance recognize differences in class would be to have the option of assigning your character to a class on the website, like a little dropdown menu to choose your class from. Mounted, Infantry/Footman, Ranged, Mounted-Range, etc...
Sounds like a good idea, but think about it: Why would you ever want to chose cav there, as it would lead to less other cav in your team...


But another thing I noticed: The modifier distributor should check for fair teams at the start of the round, not after. It's quite common on small servers not to get your modifier if you made some enemies GTX.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Quirian on February 28, 2011, 03:58:59 pm
Vics suggestion doesn't work because there are people that mix up classes my main is used as cav, or on foot from time to time with xbow, sometimes mounted xbow. I don't wanna choose a new class every time  :lol:

Still you are the most beautiful girl in cRPG right after Balton honey  :o
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Duerkos on February 28, 2011, 04:25:26 pm
I'm a pub. I mostly play with a friend, and we chose the same banner as SoA (I think?) because it is similar to "La corona de aragon" (we are from spain). I didn't really noticed the autobalance was using this feature, but I thought something strange happened because I almost always ended up in the same team as my friend (I thought it was due to our low K/D similar ratio).

That said, from my perspective it works well but sometimes a team wins too much. x5 should happen rarely, not often. But also, keep in mind clan players are not all the players there -me and my friend will be screwed if the clan request thing is coded-.

However, if it is easy to create a new faction/clan, even if it's only going to be for the two of us, it would be ok.  :lol:
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Heroin on February 28, 2011, 04:42:34 pm
However, if it is easy to create a new faction/clan, even if it's only going to be for the two of us, it would be ok.  :lol:

It is INCREDIBLY easy to create a new faction. As easy as clicking a button and naming it. So you're in luck.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Torp on February 28, 2011, 05:11:54 pm
i like the banner balance, but i hate the fact that auto-balance only kicks in after first round.
this is what happens 3/5 times:
team 1 wins
auto-balance makes the other team far better
team 2 wins
team 2 wins
team 2 wins
team 2 wins
team 2 wins

then people say its balanced cause both teams have one, but in all the rounds one team was better than the other.
i know that this gives us better multipliers, but i would like some close rounds that end with 1 vs 1 and stuff like that
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 01, 2011, 01:54:37 am
Ok, just putting this out here.
I really do prefer playing with my friends over all other things and I just don't want to somehow be punished for playing well with them. I currently am ok with the system now although it is really erratic with player distribution on one team vs another.
For example, it is normally pretty close with player count, say, 30 vs 33. Then, with balancing it will either end up 31 vs 32 with all the first-round-high-K/D players mashed up OR it will end up 27 vs 36. It is not consistent one way or the other. Now, most people are lobbying towards the even player count teams and they have their reasons. However, I very much prefer the uneven player count teams (exaggerated example: 20 vs 35) and let me explain why.
Here is a scenario that is really common when I play with my clan members that happens all the time. We start off and thanks to team work and playing well as a group and playing smart we will beat a lot of players and have a high K/D. We will then get split up to opposing sides due to K/D balance and be punished for using teamwork. We have fun working together but if we do too well we can't play together. We will get split up so that we can't use teamwork anymore and we turn into the random pub slashers everyone else is and the game is less fun. The game ends up really close and more fun in the high player count vs lesser player count scenarios as more players on both teams are banner balanced together with their friends. The higher the disparity there is often more teamwork and it adds a really nice dynamic to the game you often don't get to see.

Ah well, This is an appeal just saying "don't punish team play" and that is it. Whatever changes get made, keep teamwork in mind. Thanks!
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: EponiCo on March 01, 2011, 03:40:27 am
I'd really like a class based system.
VictheBear's idea looks good, but you could go another way. If and only if he picks archer as class he gets access to bows. He can have them in inventory but he just doesn't get to pick them. If he said his class is infantry he has to relog.
Side effect - people can't switch every round, while technically having the skill they just didn't take the item with them on campaign. They could still pick up stuff, though.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Vibe on March 01, 2011, 08:18:06 am
I'd really like a class based system.
VictheBear's idea looks good, but you could go another way. If and only if he picks archer as class he gets access to bows. He can have them in inventory but he just doesn't get to pick them. If he said his class is infantry he has to relog.
Side effect - people can't switch every round, while technically having the skill they just didn't take the item with them on campaign. They could still pick up stuff, though.

That would also kill hybrids, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: weight on March 01, 2011, 09:14:16 am
Banner balance is the best thing that has happened to this mod. The ability to be able to play with your friends on the same team is what makes this mod so fun.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Prpavi on March 01, 2011, 11:26:11 am
Banner balance is the best thing that has happened to this mod. The ability to be able to play with your friends on the same team is what makes this mod so fun.

agreed, banner balance is a must, but sometimes the balance works in mysterious ways.

often banner balance works in a way that it stacks same banners (clans) on one side and randoms on other, witch leads to 5-0, 5-1 maps pretty regulary.

if there were a way to balace the balance...

Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Delro on March 01, 2011, 08:17:58 pm
(click to show/hide)

I hope chadz takes the time to parse the google translated grammar here. This method is well thought out and I believe it would be absolutely ideal, even were it not to take into account things like assist damage.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Ganon on March 06, 2011, 08:27:52 pm
I'll contribute with a small suggestion.

First off, banner balance is good but it should be limited by opposing two different clans. That means, if you put x players in team A with the same banner, you need to put y players in team B with the same banner as well (to be clear, banner x is different from banner y). If a clan has too many players, they will be balanced normally between the two teams. This way if there's only one zerg clan, if won't be one clan vs all on a public server which equals pubstomping and isn't balanced by definition.

The proper balancing must take into account a few things to calculate the weight, an algorythm has been suggested already, but i'll make my own suggestion. Take into account: level, equipment, character's k/d ratio, and also the k/d ratio in the current map. If he has 0 kills, he doesn't equal to 0 value. Should be something like this ((character KD + map KD)/2)*level_equipment_value. The last variable must be calculated and adjusted after some tests, you can start with something like level * equipment cost/1000.

Then you distribute players evenly, which means you sort them by strength and place one in each team (this is the maior flaw of current autobalance, it doesn't do it), and after this, the algorythm can do some last adjustements (like shifting players, as i'll explain now), this is before the first round. Later on players can be switched after 3 rounds (no switching before that), switching is easy, calculate the difference between the teams and switch a player (or more players) worth that difference, from strongest to weakest. Repeat every 3 rounds. The formula can be adjusted, for example we may want map kd (which is kd in the current map) to count more than character kd, or equipment count more than level. Only live testing can tell what's best here. We may also want kd to count more than level+equipment factor (which is of course easy, for example multiply the kd factor by 3, divide the level_equipment_value by 2). So the more complex formula might look something like this:

(3*((character_KD/2 + map_KD*2)/2))*(level_equipment_value/3)

with
character_kd = kd ratio of the character (as reported in the crpg website)
map_KD the kd ratio of the player in the current map (will be 0 at start of course)
level_equipment_value could be something like level/3 * equipment_cost/500

As i said testing will suggest the correct formula. I've bolded what i think is the maior flaw of the current autobalance and my suggestion to fix it. The formula can be written in a shorter form, but i suggest to leave it like this for better readability. It's easier to adjust when every constant has a meaning.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Khalim on March 06, 2011, 09:00:23 pm
I dont see the use of autobalance.

Why not just implement an multipliere of 2.2? This would just be the same.

I hate when I join a team in the first round, then win and then everything chances so I lose every other round..
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Beauchamp on March 09, 2011, 01:46:08 am
There are couple of problems with the banner(balance)

- 1st - if sbdy from the "banner team" scores high in the first round, he is usually switched to the other team. its stupid, i even tell ramess on ts: "Please stop killing or you won't again play with us!". even more stupid is that i'm serious about that... that sux.
- 2nd - very often happens that people from 1 banner team are continually switched to the other team. so after round 1 we all play together but when the score is 3:3 we have the same ammount of clanmembers in 1 team and the same ammount in the other team - this is absolutely stupid.
- 3rd - the problem with the balance also is, that some maps are just not balanced at all. i like the siege balance that changes you from team to team sometimes: i often get switched from attacking to defending side. i think for battles this should be introduced too, because most of the maps aren't and never will be equal for both sides. i experienced a few times when i kept my x5 for more than 10!!!! times!!! mathematicaly its almost impossible, however it happened (because maps aren't balanced and i got lucky to start at the "right" side)
- 4th - if some team is loosing 4:0 the balance doesn't put this to much into consideration imo - i saw many 4:0 maps (obviously those that benefit 1 team more than the other one just because their archers can camp village rooftops etc...) where in the last round the teams were quite equal. the balance imo puts bigger stress on K:D ratio of players and tries to keep it equall than on the score of the game.
- 5th - for some reason balance also tries to keep the ammount of players equall, this is stupid. lets bring on more variety and introduce such a balance, that wouldn't care so much about equalling the actual ammount of players - i think such a balance would bring even more diversity and fun to the game and most of all would be easier to script. because lets admit one thing: it is almost impossible to keep ammount of players equall, while having similar k:d ratio for all and having all banners grouped together at the same time while also considering the actual score of the game

my rough idea is:
- (banner)balance should be done at the start of every round - the (banner)balance should also switch people to different sides (also on battle maps)

- the formula could be like this:
1) the biggest team with the same banner goes to loosing team
2) the 2nd biggest team with the same banner goes to winning team
3) to the winning team there is added another team(s) to equall it out according to K:D ratio
4) etc etc etc...

if there would be to many of the same banners (like closing to 50 percent) the banner balance should be auto disabled and people split only according to K:D ratio
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: VicTheBear on March 24, 2011, 02:41:14 pm
Vics suggestion doesn't work because there are people that mix up classes my main is used as cav, or on foot from time to time with xbow, sometimes mounted xbow. I don't wanna choose a new class every time  :lol:

Still you are the most beautiful girl in cRPG right after Balton honey  :o

You could still hybrid; choosing the class doesn't effect anything other than balance so you could still use whatever weapons you could equip to begin with, it's not like if you chose archer class you wouldn't have a melee; if you are a hybrid you would just choose the one you think you're best at or have the most wpf points in.

Sounds like a good idea, but think about it: Why would you ever want to chose cav there, as it would lead to less other cav in your team...


But another thing I noticed: The modifier distributor should check for fair teams at the start of the round, not after. It's quite common on small servers not to get your modifier if you made some enemies GTX.
I suppose this is a pretty good point...
It's not like riding is wpf, so you could really just choose whatever class your wpf is and then the perfectly balanced teams would be unbalanced  D:

OHGODTHERE'SNOSUCHTHINGASPERFECTAUTOBALANCEWHYYYYYWHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY /cry

no really
/cry
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Quirian on March 24, 2011, 02:55:11 pm
Marriage? @ Vic?
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: VicTheBear on March 24, 2011, 09:03:33 pm
Marriage? @ Vic?

Jeez, I'm not even worth a PM?
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Quirian on March 24, 2011, 10:00:36 pm
I wasn't sure if mail was gonna make it over the sea to you, so I just made this lousy forum post.

I count that as a yes, amirite?
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Malaclypse on March 25, 2011, 02:45:02 pm
As a player new to multipliers and generations in cRPG but not to the mod itself, I would personally like to see generation/number of heirloomed items being used as a factor in team balancing. People who have max heirloomed armor/weapons etc are well and good; they played long enough to earn those things. However, if one team has a significant number of players who have such gear while the other does not, it can be very frustrating. Each team needs some sort of comparable "champion pool" in terms of the heirloomed gear advantage. Just the thoughts of one peasant.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Camaris on March 25, 2011, 03:01:47 pm
I think most of the new people believe that a heirloom makes a good player ;)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: v/onMega on March 25, 2011, 03:36:22 pm
Oh they don't?... :-C

xD

Quirian, stop flirting, your filthy austrian widely spread ass belongs to HRE...

Btw, didnt u notice...Vic = red hair = a witch = upcoming barbeque? (lil roleplaying as the drunken king of bohemia)

About the balancing. It needs changes and I red plenty of proposals that all sound better than the current system.

Not bad for a witch (RP again)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Kharn on March 29, 2011, 07:12:46 am
@chadz

This can be solved with simple science.


Every player has a starting persistent autobalance score of 1000

If you are on the winning team your score goes up by 1%.  Losing team, down by 1%
This will in time eventually balance the game.

---------------
Placing players on teams.
---------------

The plan is to give the player to the team with the least autobalance score total.
Unless that team is the one with less matching banners, in which case multiply the less-matching-team score by 1.2 before deciding which team to place on.



PS: Make autobalance scores available on website ( Ppl want to know theirs)



Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Heroin on March 29, 2011, 08:27:10 am
@chadz

This can be solved with simple science.


Every player has a starting persistent autobalance score of 1000

If you are on the winning team your score goes up by 1%.  Losing team, down by 1%
This will in time eventually balance the game.

---------------
Placing players on teams.
---------------

The plan is to give the player to the team with the least autobalance score total.
Unless that team is the one with less matching banners, in which case multiply the less-matching-team score by 1.2 before deciding which team to place on.



PS: Make autobalance scores available on website ( Ppl want to know theirs)

Good ideas, except, with your +/- 1% deal, you wouldn't really have to make any special circumstances for the banner balance. Since people tend to play with the same people all the time, their % score, and thus their autobalance score, will already reflect the fact that they play with those people/banners.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Diomedes on March 31, 2011, 03:17:51 pm
I really like autobalance right now.  There is the rare 4-0 round but it seems good in most other cases.

EDIT:  Could we pick some IPs with a higher preference of being on opposite teams?  As in, Goretooth, Carebear, Leman, etc.  It's frustrating when the only foil for Leman's hammer is more peasants.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Cepeshi on March 31, 2011, 04:31:40 pm
I am running into games 5-1 or 5-0 quite often, but might be caused by the fact my gametime now usually happens during late evening/nights, early mornings, and if there are few decent clan members on one side, the battle is quite meh, but hey, happens, and sometimes i am lucky enough to be balanaced to the winning side:)

On the other hand: HRE, king of Bohemia? What the ? :D

(and yeah, i am from the Bohemian/Moravian region)
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Dom.Miguel on April 09, 2011, 04:54:31 pm
Is it possible to tag people by theyre wpf points? Example: If you have more wpf points in arch you'll be tag as an archer and if you have any points in riding and/or ha you'll be tag cav and/or ha. Then making more balanced teams so no more one sided rangefest.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: El_Infante on April 23, 2011, 03:23:22 am
I have a suggestion. On the first round of each map, sort players by skill points in order, for example (1º Riding, 2º Powerdraw, 3º (PS+WM) / 2), 4º Athletics). Each team have similiar builds. If team A have 10 guys with riding 6, and team B have another 10 guys with riding 6, you won't see again 15 cav on a team and 0 cav on the other. The same on archers. You can do the same with athletics or powerthrow. On the second round, apply the formula of Kills/Lvl to change between teams the most "skilled" players to keep the game balanced.

This is compatible with banner balance. I think this idea will improve a lot playing balanced on battle and siege servers.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: HarunYahya on April 23, 2011, 08:48:47 am
I think , in battle servers autobalance is working .
In siege servers.... :evil:
For siege i think this could work:
1)People should choose teams like Mount and Musket mod.
(If there is a free spot you can get in,if there is no free spot you can either wait or switch to other team.)
2)After you chose a team you cannot switch to other.
3)Divide max rounds per map to 2 , the number you got is the round number to switch all attackers to defenders and all defenders to attackers.

The current system is like anti multiplier . This system would work way better imho.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Nasturtium on April 23, 2011, 11:04:01 am
Banner balance is good but sometimes it fucks up and makes teams unbalanced say 1 team having 90% of the archers/cav while the other team having very few.

 I played a round last night where on one team of 34 players, 28 were either archers, throwers or xbowmen (yes I counted) I know there is probably no way to take into account what class a player is, but is kinda gets screwy like this sometimes
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Beauchamp on April 23, 2011, 04:50:15 pm
I played a round last night where on one team of 34 players, 28 were either archers, throwers or xbowmen (yes I counted) I know there is probably no way to take into account what class a player is, but is kinda gets screwy like this sometimes

i think you never can really balance all the players according to everything (banner, classes, kills, levels). you just have to choose something that will have a higher priority.

if i could choose i'd like to see the same banners fighting ALWAYS together including the 1st round. for the rest i don't care so much. even if a team where almost everybody would be with the same banner would be loosing and fighting against superior numbers, archers, cav...
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Beauchamp on April 24, 2011, 12:16:07 am
btw i quite like balance on siege servers, it keeps rebalancing every few rounds keeping people with the same banner together and switching the sides which is good (as not only the siege maps are unbalanced). why don't we have this kind of balance in battles?
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Keshian on April 24, 2011, 12:18:18 am
i think you never can really balance all the players according to everything (banner, classes, kills, levels). you just have to choose something that will have a higher priority.

if i could choose i'd like to see the same banners fighting ALWAYS together including the 1st round. for the rest i don't care so much. even if a team where almost everybody would be with the same banner would be loosing and fighting against superior numbers, archers, cav...

+1, love epic battles of all your clanmates agaisnt another team with 15 more guys to balance it out.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Tydeus on April 24, 2011, 03:02:25 am
Pure statistics, why should the % chance to get a 10 rounds winning spree be any different than the one of a 10 times losing spree? (not counting in GTXs, ofc)
While some poor guy had 16 rounds of x1 in battle. I think it is fine in siege, you are able to get the x2 and x3 easier, but x5 is more scarce.
Both of these comments don't wholly take into account "statistics" as stated.

Twenty rounds of back and forth wins between each team is nowhere near as profitable to EVERYONE had both teams gotten a 10 round win spree. One averages a 1.5 multiplier while the other averages a 2.5 multiplier.
With the current system of multipliers, it's in everyone's interest to have teams as unbalanced and random as possible. That way every map becomes 1:4/0:4. When has anyone ever seen a team that consisted of only a clan? And I mean that specifically, not a team of 50-60% one clan, where the rest are randoms, because this(teams consisting of 50% clan members on each team) is optimal for xp/gold with the current system. This means that with every map change you have either a 1/3 or 50% chance to be on the "stacked" team, if you're not attached to others by a banner and assuming teams will be stacked.

I don't have a clan, the only people that use my banner are the extremely rare randoms who tend to be absolutely atrocious and the guys from my vent that play about 10% as often as I do. This should show that my opinion isn't biased favoring banner balance.

My point here is that
A) Banner balance specifically is fine aside from needing some minor tweaks.
B) Balance needs to also look at assists and where players have their wpf allocated or, not look at K:D at all (Thus increasing the random factor for teams at the start of each map, making them more imbalanced and nearly completely random with who gets on the stacked team, maximizing everyone's average multiplier).

Siege is a bit different because the majority of the maps are completely imbalanced and break further when people bring mass numbers of ladders. Spawns for siege tend put defenders nearly as far from the flag on their respawn as attackers, not to mention the static 30 second respawn timer rather than a timer that causes defenders to respawn in waves, like every good multiplayer ctf mode. Hell, even WoW battlegrounds have wave respawns.
Title: Re: Autobalance - bring your suggestions
Post by: Tydeus on April 24, 2011, 03:03:41 am
accidental post, no idea how to delete it.