cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Munchkin9 on January 25, 2012, 02:43:56 am
-
For now particular reasons other that they are all armor crutching wimps to scarred to fight like a real man (bear chested wielding a spoon of course), I dislike tin cans.
That's why I've never really had a close look at the higher tier armors. But I just had a look now and I'm a little confused. 16 str for black armor? Why?
I'm currently running a poorly made 21/15 build. 21! And I'm not even focusing strength (okay maybe a little, but that's not the point!). IMHO it seems to me that if someone wants to go tin can then they should be forced to dedicate their build to it. Meaning something more like 20 or even 25 strength for black armor and sort of count down from there.
What I believe (I might be wrong) this would do is: reduce the amount of tin cans (always a good thing :D), create a larger division in builds between tin cans and non-tin cans (what I assume are aluminum cans) and finally cause a tin can to truly be a lot slower and therefore be more balanced.
I know most people disagree with me on that last, they saying armor does slow you done a lot, but there ya have it, I don't think it slows down nearly enough. I hate to pull the realism card but a knight in armor, when off horse back, could barely move, never mind jog across the battlefield. And if the mention of realism makes your muscles in your knee spasm weirdly then there is also the balance issue to consider: whether you like it or not (or even admit it) armors are better than no armor, always: you can take a ridiculous amount of punishment and even have a considerable amount of immunity to attacks (glances). The counter-balance to this is...what? Supposedly a lose of speed. But I as I said I haven't noticed this.
This alteration would raise the speed difference (slightly) and add an extra counter-balance: armors are harder to get and force you to sacrifice some other things like swing speed, shield capabilities etc. Main issue to this (see I can self critique!) is that it would also reduce the capability for tin cans to ride horses, a plus for balance but a lose for realism.
C'est vous qui voyez.
-Munchkin9
-
Tin Cans have big minuses.
1. They run slow, so they don't get to pick where to fight and are easily surrounded.
2. They swing slowly, wpf penalty for tin cans is extremely high.
But yeah both those minuses are obviously negated with high agility so I'm guessing the devs have found that forcing higher strength is too big of a minus.
Might be wrong :) Maybe it would be great for the game that everyone knew that tin cans walk extremely slowly since they can't have high agility with it.
-
I agree. Heavy armor difficulty should be made higher.
-
PSssssstch then you'll come and whine about them STR crutchers in plate armor who just wont die.
And I will laugh.
-
There we go again, bob comes out to be wrong. Like anyone every whinnes around here bob, I mean really!
-
Use your head for 10 seconds, instead of seeing a 21 str plater, they'll be 24-27 str which means more hp for the guy in the armor, more ps smashing your face and very little loss of WPF and 1 less athletic.
-
I wouldn't mind, if high tier armors were also improved at the same time. Make part of Paul's nerf undone, give them 18-24 req and give a refund in heirloom points for everyone with loomed ones.
-
Use your head for 10 seconds, instead of seeing a 21 str plater, they'll be 24-27 str which means more hp for the guy in the armor, more ps smashing your face and very little loss of WPF and 1 less athletic.
That 1 less athletics is the penalty the OP is talking about. Not to mention you would also have less agility, and each point of agility makes you move slightly faster.
I think it makes sense. You potentially can have people in heavy armor with 7 athletics, that just doesn't jibe.
I'd personally prefer they just leave most things alone
-
Bob is right, and also this is totally unnecessary.
-
That 1 less athletics is the penalty the OP is talking about. Not to mention you would also have less agility, and each point of agility makes you move slightly faster.
I think it makes sense. You potentially can have people in heavy armor with 7 athletics, that just doesn't jibe.
Worse still. Gothic plate and heavy plate are D15 so you could wear those with a 15/24, 8 athletics build.
-
Idk about anyone else, but I've never found heavy armor and agi chars complementary. If you are pumping ath, you are wasting the potential of it with heavy armor. If you have low str, the heavy armor is not going to make you unstoppable, whereas high str and heavy armor will. Maybe I'm just not playing correctly, but for my agi/balanced chars, I generally avoid heavy armor in favor of taking as much advantage of the agi as I can.
-
I hate to pull the realism card but a knight in armor, when off horse back, could barely move, never mind jog across the battlefield.
One more kid that hasnt read a single medieval warfare and armors book besides children books with no text just pictures.
1. Medieval plate is actually similar if not lighter to equipment today's soldier has to carry around all the time.
2. Getting up from lying postion in plate is fairly easy.
3. Plate is actually very flexible if armor is done correctly and moving in plate is very similar to moving in chain mail.
Go read a fucking book and talk about realism.
-
Yes please.
-
One more kid that hasnt read a single medieval warfare and armors book besides children books with no text just pictures.
1. Medieval plate is actually similar if not lighter to equipment today's soldier has to carry around all the time.
2. Getting up from lying postion in plate is fairly easy.
3. Plate is actually very flexible if armor is done correctly and moving in plate is very similar to moving in chain mail.
Go read a fucking book and talk about realism.
Surprised nobody else commented on it. I'm not an expert, but have seen that claim debunked before.
Apparently there was some movie in the 70s that depicted knights having to use cranes to get them on their horses and everyone takes this as fact. However, it's been demonstrated many times they were able to move around in heavy armor fairly easily, and as you say, somewhat comparable to today's soldier. I think total weight is comparable, but your movements would be more restricted in heavy mail or plated armor. But you could still certainly move, and these were people who were training for these conditions since they were little kids, they were comfortable in this gear, or as comfortable as you could be.
-
I really agree on raising armour difficulty. Not 25 or something, but more than it is now.
Just saw a guy with probably 15/21 or more agility in full plate running like speedy gonzales and outspamming everyone with a 1h sword...
-
Surprised nobody else commented on it. I'm not an expert, but have seen that claim debunked before.
Apparently there was some movie in the 70s that depicted knights having to use cranes to get them on their horses and everyone takes this as fact. However, it's been demonstrated many times they were able to move around in heavy armor fairly easily, and as you say, somewhat comparable to today's soldier. I think total weight is comparable, but your movements would be more restricted in heavy mail or plated armor. But you could still certainly move, and these were people who were training for these conditions since they were little kids, they were comfortable in this gear, or as comfortable as you could be.
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTyjb0-TsxY They wear full contact jousting plate, and at 2:14, a guy is doing a somersault off his horse onto a dude lying on the floor.
Full plate is heavy, but the weight is evenly distributed on all your body parts. You can jog in full plate no problem. It will exhaust you quickly, but your movements are not much restricted.
-
Thats some fucking crazy shit they're doing, man I am jealous D:
-
Thats some fucking crazy shit they're doing, man I am jealous D:
Well, if you're American, you can learn to ride and then go and apply, I think.
-
well shit is not the reason why its so low is because everything was raised so high???
nerf cycle.....just saying
-
Agi builds don't complement plate well. My last gen I was 15/24, ran with gothic plate a few times just to try it, but it's worthless with that kind of build. I was still faster than most people with it, but due to my health being so low already, the protection from the armor did very little. I still died in 2-3 hits from anything but a high agi ninja build using a cut weapon. All raising plate difficulty would do is mean agi builds would be forced to use armor that's better for them anyway.
-
actually i remember seeing somewhere that the health bonus from armor is only good when you have a high amount of health.i completely 4got why though if anyone remembers maybe that will make agi pl8 crutch fail more believable
-
agi build is for sissies.
Been wearing lordly heraldic trans for months with 21-18 build going for 24 str at lvl 34.
Am i slow ?
Yes
Can i spam ?
No
Do i enjoy it?
Fuck Yeah !
Their hits are glancin' , they hatin ' 8-)
Every armor/weapon/stats combo is deadly on good hands.
If someone is going for 15-24 build with tincan , they'll fail cuz speed doesn't matter on battle servers.
15 str = 1 or max 2 hits by a proper steel pick or any other tincan opener weapon user.
-
sadly the main argument for agi builds being useful is that in the hands of a skilled player they are effective...
to me that makes no sense seeing how any build in the hands of a skilled player would be effective
but everyone thinks i am crazy saying the perfect example of this is what is more deadly: a 30/9 or a 9/30 build?
-
One more kid that hasnt read a single medieval warfare and armors book besides children books with no text just pictures.
1. Medieval plate is actually similar if not lighter to equipment today's soldier has to carry around all the time.
2. Getting up from lying postion in plate is fairly easy.
3. Plate is actually very flexible if armor is done correctly and moving in plate is very similar to moving in chain mail.
Go read a fucking book and talk about realism.
We are talking about a game not about IRL. Go realism discussion.
-
Well, if you're American, you can learn to ride and then go and apply, I think.
Never felt the urge to learn how to ride a horse...now it's my life goal. :P
-
+1, my 38 body 12 leg armor has 11 difficulty, u can wear 100kg of metal on u with just 3-5 str more? It ain't right.
-
Balanced builds are the shit imho.
Str builds are situational in that they are great for ganging and being "line infantry" - when things are going as they should.
Problem is that when shit hits the fan and you need to gtfo/fight multiple enemies/duel/dodge a lance then str builds are utter shit.
Also, they're incredibly boring to play imo.
Agi builds are situational in that while they are great for picking your fights and getting out of bad ones, they don't really have the "oomph" to get into the thick of things and have an uncanny ability to get one or two-shotted.
That being said, agi builds are more fun to play imo, but a whole team of agi builds just won't cut it.
And this is where the balanced build comes into play. A good player will do best with a balanced build since he can deal with almost any situation by playing to his opponents weakness. You're a str build? I'll drag you out in the open, harass you, outduel you, outrange you and I have the oomph to do this in a manageable amount of time. You're an agi build? I can keep up with you. I'll play defensively, capitalize on stuns, force glances and then quickly 1-2 shot you.
Specialization is detrimental to a good player, you want to be as versatile as possible.
-
+1, my 38 body 12 leg armor has 11 difficulty, u can wear 100kg of metal on u with just 3-5 str more? It ain't right.
The weights in cRPG are actually pretty accurate. Full plate armor is a bit over 30 kg. However, plate armor has better weight distribution than mail armor, which mostly stresses the shoulders.
-
The weights in cRPG are actually pretty accurate. Full plate armor is a bit over 30 kg. However, plate armor has better weight distribution than mail armor, which mostly stresses the shoulders.
Aye, but wearing a belt makes mail much more manageable.