cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: MeevarTheMighty on January 23, 2012, 02:19:46 pm
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13 in Shield gets you an unbreakable barrier, 13 in Power Draw gets you less than nothing.
Maybe the game would be more diverse and enjoyable if this weren't so.
Currently, the time it takes to draw a bow to the smallest reticule, the time it can be held at its most precise and the size of the reticule at this point are governed by wpf.
It makes more sense for Power Draw to govern the first two, firstly because of the likeness to reality; in real life, holding a drawn bow is a simple extension of the feat of drawing it and relies on this strength. Secondly, it makes sense because it's never been remotely common for people to invest in more than 7 PD - it was unviable from the beginning, because of its limited sphere in comparison to Agi based wpf.
With recent patches, it has become closer to impossible to invest in a large amount of PD. Dedicated PD characters were completely destroyed by the introduction of wpf requirement (as if wpf should be encouraged in archers, it only makes them more annoying) - sit far below the requirement and you'll find you can find your 10+ powerdraw lowbow does considerably less damage than a level 1 with a shortbow. Without sitting far above the requirement, you'll still quickly find yourself run into the ground with repairs even if all you buy is a bow and one set of arrows.
I think this change has killed some diversity without offering much in return. It has always been most common for archers to invest in as little PD as possible and as much wpf as possible, so why mandate this? I can't help but think it was a change aimed at throwing, but placed on archery too just for the sake of it.
With the recent further change seemingly aimed at increasing the relative effectiveness of high wpf in archers, I wondered if this aspect of the class could be reconsidered.
No idea if it's possible to move effects from wpf to PD, hope archery viability can be better distributed across the spectrum of the class though, that being the sort of thing that balancing is normally about. Thanks for reading.
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I support this, was thinking of suggesting something similar myself some days ago, in relation to my suggestion to increase the holding time for longbow.
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Ah yes, I clicked Game Balance Discussion, saw "longbow" and remembered how broken PD seems, so you inspired me to write this!
Now I read your thread it is somewhat similar, which should be no surprise since the problem is quite clear. :)
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Ideally, in my mind, powerdraw would allow you to hold the bow drawn (accurately) longer, increase missile speed, increase damage, and draw the bow to full accuracy faster.
Archery wpf would make you more accurate and shorten the nocking animation.
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10+ power draw was never useful in any way or form because the maximum requirement bow has 6 difficulty. Aside from that, you need 14 wpf to use each PD point. 10+ PD archers were never viable so they were never "killed." They were never even alive.
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10+ power draw was never useful in any way or form because the maximum requirement bow has 6 difficulty. Aside from that, you need 14 wpf to use each PD point. 10+ PD archers were never viable so they were never "killed." They were never even alive.
No? :P
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No? :P
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You spend half a year making the most obnoxious, broken, one-sided build for roofcamping 24/7 ever. Congratz.
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Ideally, in my mind, powerdraw would allow you to hold the bow drawn (accurately) longer, increase missile speed, increase damage, and draw the bow to full accuracy faster.
Archery wpf would make you more accurate and shorten the nocking animation.
Take out the damage increase and the missile speed increase and you get my vote. Instead there should be lots of different versions of each bow at different difficulties. So a PD5 Longbow, aPD6 Longbow, a PD7 Longbow, etc. Same models, but different stats depending on their difficulty. If you want more damage, get more PD and buy a bigger bow. If you want to be able to hold your shots, get more PD than you need for your bow.
This would allow people to pick both their build and their style - something I have always hated about archery is the fact that build governs style.
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No? :P
well, 10 PD is maximum. If you go to 11 PD it's useless
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Would actually be nice to see some 10 PD archers I do think they might be viable with the recent nerfs. Of course would need to play totally different style then before.
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Would actually be nice to see some 10 PD archers I do think they might be viable with the recent nerfs. Of course would need to play totally different style then before.
The two that I know of are not particularly impressive right now.
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Doubt that any archer with 10PD can effectively aim with their 0-20 effective wpf in archery.
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The aiming isn't the problem. 0-20 effective wpf gives you unpayable upkeep, it's flat out impossible.
10+ power draw was never useful in any way or form because the maximum requirement bow has 6 difficulty. Aside from that, you need 14 wpf to use each PD point. 10+ PD archers were never viable so they were never "killed." They were never even alive.
This is why I suggested giving PD control of draw speed and hold time; this would continue to give a bonus above 10, as per every other skill.
Incidentally in "classic c-rpg" I made an archer hunting alt with 13 PD and 0 wpf in archery and I got him to gen 3 purely on my own kills (standing far from my allies). I heard one of the Mercs was doing well with a similar build and I'm sure there were more of us. It's always been useless to go above 10, but it is now more than a waste of points, it comes with a whole stack of negative effects. Most archers have always played the most viable subset of archery, but it wasn't always the only subset. In my opinion, lowering the roof on PD was either very thoughtless or a decidedly bad balancing decision.
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Doubt that any archer with 10PD can effectively aim with their 0-20 effective wpf in archery.
They can due to the still too high free wpf :rolleyes:
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I just made a Level 31 30/13 139 wpf archery (6 points left unused, as I need 8 points to get 1 more), 4 ATH 10 PD 4 WM. No points "wasted" on anything else.
Even when spawning naked, with only my Rusbow and bodkins I get "your weapons proficiency is too low!"
To me it seems like it is impossible to used PD 10 , unless you have a level 32++ character. Is this intentional?
Yes its slow movement,slow draw, semi inaccurate, but should hit like a hellfire missile.
That is how I like to play. It feels more real. Never liked the smallbows, and now headshotbonanza.
I want to feel like a battlearcher, not some joker running around with a toysRus kids bow. Trying to pin people in the head.
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It's not quite impossible, you have to be more dedicated (no Athletics), but you will find your stuff breaks every round even if you do get a high enough wpp to do damage. You'll also have no wpp to put into melee, so if you go 1h in hope of saving up enough to pay your bow and arrow upkeeps, your melee weapon will break. :lol:
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I just made a Level 31 30/13 139 wpf archery (6 points left unused, as I need 8 points to get 1 more), 4 ATH 10 PD 4 WM. No points "wasted" on anything else.
Even when spawning naked, with only my Rusbow and bodkins I get "your weapons proficiency is too low!"
To me it seems like it is impossible to used PD 10 , unless you have a level 32++ character. Is this intentional?
Yes its slow movement,slow draw, semi inaccurate, but should hit like a hellfire missile.
That is how I like to play. It feels more real. Never liked the smallbows, and now headshotbonanza.
I want to feel like a battlearcher, not some joker running around with a toysRus kids bow. Trying to pin people in the head.
Ouch you actually need 140 wpf for that. 14 * PD
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even dropping the 4 ath it is still not possible to get 140. you get 30/15 139wpf 10PD 4WM no point left to put in WM.
10PD is for 32++ characters.
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Then we agree, it's pretty broken as is.
Can anyone see a good reason for keeping it this way (Impossible to play high PD archer, reward wpf archers)?
Even if you are a dedicated wpf crutching archer, I'd be interested to read any insight you might have into why it might be best to keep archery to its current monotone.