cRPG

Off Topic => Spam => Topic started by: seddrik on January 23, 2012, 05:24:04 am

Title: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 23, 2012, 05:24:04 am

INDEX:
The Dev Menace - cRpg Wars Episode I (p.1)
Attack of the Admins - cRpg Wars Episode II (p.8)


"THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).

(Que dramatic, sorrowful music)

There once was a little player named BobTheNoob who played cRpg.  He spent hours learning what things were, about timing, range weapons, shields, horses and weapon lengths and even the proper mispellings for chat conversations so the he would not be mocked or belittled.  He enjoyed the game because you could get stronger and succeed finally.  He looked at other players with admiration and awe as they brought destruction, slaughtering 30, 40 even 50 players in a set, with their fully loomed equipment.  "I will get there too, one day!"  He boldly declared.

In the process of leveling, he settled on two-handed weapons.  "With this I shall join the ranks of the awesome!" And so he began to develop his build.  He discovered that as he leveled the two-handed mace was fun.  It was exceedingly short, and in that way very vulnerable to ranged, and longer weapons (practically everything); but still allowed him to have small victories.  It did not destroy shields. It was simply fast and had a small knock down effect.  But it was fun!  And then... it happened.

An Eviiiiilllllll Developer of the mod leaned forward in his chair.  He saw that people like Bob used the two-handed mace effectively.  They did not top the charts with 20-30 kills, but they occasionally killed 2-3 in a row.  Sometimes (and this is what made the Developer growl in anger) they even hit the Developer in the face.  "They... can't... have.... fun!!!!"  The developer seethed in indignation as Bob smashed his tiny mace in the Dev's lvl 35 face.  Little did Bob know that his moment of glory and elation was inciting such wrath and fury.  Thunder rolled across the hills of cRpg-land.

"I MUST balance the game" The developer pontificated.  "It is unfair to the community to allow this to continue."  And so the Dev bent his mind and powers to the altering of the two-handed mace.  It was truly a menace to the game.  "Players will quit the game if it continues as it is," he reasoned to himself.  "People will cry and complain to me about it being Over Powered", he rationalized.  And so he toiled all night long, fueled by seething enmity towards two-handed mace users.

Secretly, in the recesses of his darkened mind he had another motive.  One he rarely admitted even to himself.  His master plan, his grand goal - the destruction of all weapons that ranged and hybrid classes use.  And they definitely use the 1 slot, two-handed mace.

And so, sweat dripping from his fevered brow, the Dev lowered the NERF hammer.  Crpg trembles at the blow.  Horses fall to the ground in shrill cries.  Shouts of delight arise from melee-ers who despise anyone with a weapon smaller than theirs ever landing a blow.  Infants cry out in victory, cry-babies who sit behind monitors defying anyone who ever lands a blow on them; for no one has the skill and expertise they do.  And then, poor unsuspecting Bob logs on.

He grabs his trusty little mace, ready for another day of fun while leveling.  Only to notice.... how sluggish his weapon is.  It doesn't block as fast as before.  Its swing is slower than previously.  Suddenly, he goes from breaking even in kills to falling behind by half.  He wonders, "What has happened?"  And then he sees it.  The speed change on the mace is a clear evidence of the DEV's work.  He knows instinctively what has occurred.  The weapon is now no better than a stick.  In grief, he tries to plow on.  But the misery is too great.  Whether it be in regenning for gear or at lvl 30 - the mace just doesn't handle like before.  Its enjoyment has faded.  Its effectiveness muted and blunted by the sorcerous and wizened hands of the Eviiiiilllllll Dev.

Night falls upon cRpg-land.  Fog covers the down-turned faces of many people like Bob.  Aspirations and enjoyment crushed.  Hopes deflated.  The Dev leans back in his creaky padded chair, crossing his hands in front of himself.  He grabs a potato chip, dropping crumbs down his front as he consumes it noisily.  He sighs in contentment, a smirk slowly developing on his face.  "What next?" he wonders.  "What is the next step towards the total elimination of fun in this game... except, of course, my build and my preferences?"  He chuckles softly.  Leans forward.  And sees his next step...


Warning: Do not read, much less reply, to this unless you want to be mocked, ridiculed, insulted, and offended.
Warning: This message has been repeatedly "patched" in order to become more sarcastic and irritating, just like crpg patches.

To the dev who did this:

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Can you spell:  S.T.U.P.I.D. ?

To trolls: 

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Yes, IMAD.  Anything you post is liable to be puked back into this first post as part of my growing satire.

To the smarty who replied to my STUPID comment: 

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Its my satire and I can rage if I want to.  Not like they gonna listen anyway.

To Mr Potato Head. 

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"Still a capable weapon"?  That can be said of anything they have nerfed.  Arrows still stun & damage.  (But its ranged so people cry and devs nerf.)  The whole value of the mace was in its speed.  Not length.  Not power hits.  Speed.  Less speed = less fun, less effective.  Hence thats is why devs nerfed it.  THEY HATE US HAVING FUN and being effective is the LAST thing they want to see in a player.  And as noted below, who used it most?  Usually ranged people & hybrids.  So.  Nerf range AND their back up weapon.  Just can't wait to hear more QQ about ranged players running away again.  I'm really looking forward to it, aren't you?

To Mr. "It's-Too-Good"

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Definition of OP:  (Uses whiny voice)  "If it can hit me and make me mad, it is 'too good'.  If I cannot block it everytime, it isn't MY lack of skill, it MUST be that the weapon is OP.  Besides, ONLY weapons I use take skill, nothing else does!  Nothing and no one should be OP (except me)!"

To Mr. "its a freaking 1 foot weapon..... your not supposed to be using it like a katana or espada or some other fast primary weapon.. its for archers". 

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Translation: "You aren't supposed to play the game that way!  Why? Because I say so! And yes, I cry like a baby when I get hit by the two-handed mace! I'm glad it got nerfed!  I love whining... I mean WINNING, even if I only win because no one else has weapons like I do!"

To Mr. HerpDerp: 

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It is interesting that a weapon that you never see used to top the charts with is being nerfed.  Was it fast? Sure.  Did it hit super hard? No.  But since some used it well, and big cry babies who pay more for bigger weapons and gear [which hit harder and make u live longer] occasionally got slapped with it.... NERF IT!

To Mr. "Satire-is-somethingelse-IRL".  I shall appeal to the supreme dictionary and defintion of terms.  Wiki.

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"Satire is primarily a literary genre or form, although in practice it can also be found in the graphic and performing arts. In satire, vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, and society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be funny, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit as a weapon.  A common feature of satire is strong irony or sarcasm —"in satire, irony is militant"—but parody, burlesque, exaggeration, juxtaposition, comparison, analogy, and double entendre are all frequently used in satirical speech and writing. This "militant" irony or sarcasm often professes to approve of (or at least accept as natural) the very things the satirist wishes to attack.  Satire is nowadays found in many artistic forms of expression, including literature, plays, commentary, and media such as lyrics."

Bold text added for the intellectually impaired.
BTW, "bold text" is the extra dark text.

To I'M-A-HAIRY-ANIMAL-IRL:

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"it was too good" I suppose BEARS can't read.  I have most thoroughly dealt with this before.  But for the slow of wit -> "Too good" is the cry of infants who can't handle a weapon that never even topped the scoreboards.  Clearly a nerf was needed to compensate with the lack of skill of these pitiable players.

"if you were an archer or crossbowman with 1 slot for a self defense weapon there was very little reason to use anything other than that mace"   The no slot hammer and 1 slot short spear are commonly seen as well as the mace with skilled users being able to use them effectively.  If anything, while I do not use it, the 1h hammer needed a slight perk to make it a little more useful.  But no.  Let us rob ranged & hybrids of any motivation for resorting to melee...  UR SO SMURT FUR A BARE!

"...it was ***king up internal weapon balance..."  The ever important maxim of BALANCE has been sounded!  Surely it MUST be done!  We must bow to this incredibly powerful argument!  Even though the weapon was never used to top the charts, for BALANCE we must sacrifice it!

"...it's been a known 'issue' for a long time"  OOHHHHH!  I GET IT!!!!  Its been AN ISSUE for a LONG TIME!!!!! Wow such powerful reasoning.  My determination has fully crumbled before your unfathomable logic!  It is inconceivable that I should ever think otherwise now!  Unless my brain actually works (herp derp).

Time to choose a new weapon. I found one that is ranged, but does no damage, fires very short distances, wind and rain totally destroy what little range it has.  But it may have too much ammo... that may need nerfing.  And it will definitely need to be 3 slot and cost 20k... in repairs.  Just to be "balanced".  We want to be balanced right?  What is this marvelous weapon?  Click and see...

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I have polled concerning its approval.  Here are the results:

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11% of the community cried like babies saying it would be too OP.  They complained that it wouldn't be "realistic enough" for this game.  It needed to be pink, not orange, in order to be balanced.  A picture of the ringleader of this group was taken.  He went by the name "BigBoi" and is a member of the "DD" (Dirty Diaper) clan.

(click to show/hide)

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78% of the community thought it would actually be fun, but decided that we already have enough ranged weapons of similar strength in game.

10% of the community selected a choice at random due to insufficient intellectual capacity.

1% of the community (The DEVs) voted 1000 times each, skewing the poll.  This is obviously due to the fact that a DEV's opinions is vastly more important than anyone elses, and that they listen to the loud complainers, rather than being concerned with what is actually fun and keeps people playing the game.

I would post the link to this poll, but the Eviiiiilllllll DEV rolled in and destroyed all evidence of its existence in an effort to curtail criticism.

Let us extol the virtues of...
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Why is nerfing good for the game?

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10. Because the Devs have nothing better to do (like fix glitches and bugs)!
9.  It makes the Dev's feel powerful in being able to rob other players of any weapon that could ever possibly land a hit on their awesome person.
8.  Because cry-babies call it OP. (In other words, they are too lazy to figure out how to fight it.)
7.  "Its a freaking one foot weapon..."  (In other words, the fact that I already have a longer weapon doesn't matter!)
6.  "Its too freak'n long..."  (In other words, I do not know how to down block!)
5.  "Its too freak'n fast..."  (In other words, it hit me before my sloooow mind could comprehend it.  Herp derp!)
4.  "It has too freak'n much ammo." (In other words, one is too many)
3.  "Its a freak'n archer weapon."  (Archery must be entirely removed from the game!)
2.  "It freak'n knocked me down!  It freak'n stunned me!"  It freak'n 3 shot me!  It freak'n 2 shot me!  It freak'n one shot me!" (In other words, "I'm too freak'n good to be killed by anyone!")
1.  It "balances" the game, even when the weapon was not freak'n dominating before!

What does NERF stand for?

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N - Never permit excellence, punish it!
E - Everyone must suffer, except the Devs.
R - Random & constant nerfs are good for the game!  Really they are!
F - Fun is never permitted for anyone, except the Devs.

BTW!  What could be better than a Dev's own admission that they nerf things insanely much?
A Dev's cRpg Profile (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php?action=profile;u=5925)

Title: Re: Mace Nerf! (A Satire)
Post by: oohillac on January 23, 2012, 05:29:33 am

gosh forbid you adapt to a slight speed change.

Yes, now your scores will definitely be bad  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Mace Nerf! (A Satire)
Post by: Arkonor on January 23, 2012, 05:43:00 am

Wonder how long it will take the human race to understand that calling someone "STUPID" does not in any way or form help their arguments.

Title: Re: Mace Nerf! (A Satire)
Post by: oohillac on January 23, 2012, 05:52:20 am

Quote from: Arkonor on January 23, 2012, 05:43:00 am

Wonder how long it will take the human race to understand that calling someone "STUPID" does not in any way or form help their arguments.

Just saying a mocking complaint about a slight change to a mace that is still a very capable weapon is pointless to the argument of whether the mace is still "good". Which it is.


or was that directed at him?

Title: Re: Mace Nerf! (A Satire)
Post by: MrShine on January 23, 2012, 05:56:14 am

I think mace nerf was justified simply because it was too good for its price and stats and being 1 slot.  Ironically though mace is rarely used outside of ranged sidearm, so it was melee/ranged hybrids who were hurt the most from this chance.

Title: Re: Mace Nerf! (A Satire)
Post by: Zaren on January 23, 2012, 07:14:54 am

its a freaking 1 foot weapon..... your not supposed to be using it like a katana or espada or some other fast primary weapon.. its for archers

Title: Re: Mace Nerf! (A Satire)
Post by: Moribund on January 24, 2012, 01:41:44 am

In real life...

(click to show/hide)

a satire is something different

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 24, 2012, 03:07:50 am

NEW AND IMPROVED!  UPDATED!  i.e. NERFED!!!!! ENJOY!

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: Malaclypse on January 24, 2012, 03:34:18 am

There are plenty of viable one hand's to use. My favorite when rolling an archer has always been the Iberian Mace.

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 24, 2012, 03:40:31 am

Careful Malaclypse!  Do not reveal your favorite weapon or its usefulness!  The DEVs are watching!

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: Zerran on January 24, 2012, 03:47:39 am

I think seddrik finally broke.   :|

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 24, 2012, 03:53:21 am

But, my doctor says I'm fine now...  :shock:

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: a_bear_irl on January 24, 2012, 11:13:04 pm

the mace was nerfed because it was too good when compared to the other 1 slot weapons, if you were an archer or crossbowman with 1 slot for a self defense weapon there was very little reason to use anything other than that mace

has nothing to do with the mace itself being OP or hard to block or whatever you're mad about, it was fucking up internal weapon balance and it's been a known "issue" for a long time

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 25, 2012, 06:31:29 am

I am verily thankful for the talking bears reply.  It reminds me of a circus act I have once seen... very entertaining.  I encourage you all to see the rejoinder in the first post to his most humorous attempt at logic.  And remember to glance at Why is nerfing good for the game?.  I am sure you will find it interesting that the very #1 argument I have listed is what this rather smart player (for a bear) has used.


I shall remind you all of the underlying message for this whole post, which is vividly displayed in my new avatar.  I sense that this BEAR has been subjected to the same experience as DD_BigBoi.

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: Bobthehero on January 25, 2012, 08:26:13 am

They balanced it, very slight nerf, deal with it or let your tears feed the devs, either way its done now.

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: [ptx] on January 25, 2012, 08:39:22 am

U nerfed my WHAT?
No way! Whine about it!

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on January 25, 2012, 09:17:55 am

I still think the solution was to make it 2 slots.

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 25, 2012, 10:09:57 am

Nerfing is always the solution to every "issue".  Even when it was not an issue!  Huzzah to the Devs for their wisdom!

And you dare compare my comments to the whining, tearful crying, and fit throwing tantrums that all the babies do because they can't handle a game with variety?  I do not follow that shameless DD_BigBoi!  No!  My comments are, naturally, much more skilled than any of yours.  Just as those who cry for nerfs are so much more skilled than anyone else, my arguments excel and exceed yours.  Just accept it and do not ever, EVEH! compare my comments to whining!  Indeed, the very idea, trying to NERF and BALANCE my brilliant and expert commentary!

As for the declaration of "balance"... All the peons of cRpg stand in silent awe at its power.  But I do not tremble!  Your pontifications of "balance" are empty! Empty I say!

"Its done  now?"  It is over you say?  The Devs will never relent with their shameless, barbaric destruction of the game?  Is this all there is to cRpg?  You preach doom and discouragement.  I... I reach for hope.  Perhaps you do not see it.  It shines so faintly on the horizon.... but it must be there.  If you squint hard you just may see it.  Squint harder now.  See it yet?  (Grabs a bat.)  Soon, you shall see hope, and see things my way!  If I take the high and mighty road of irresistible logic!  (swings bat at your face)

(Wheres my ritalin... did I forget to take it?)

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: Espu on January 25, 2012, 10:16:38 am

This thread has been moved to Rants.

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 25, 2012, 10:19:04 am

The HIGHER POWERS have spoken.

My wisdom has been acknowledged.  I expect soon a nerfing of the nerfings.

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: a_bear_irl on January 25, 2012, 11:18:05 am

Quote from: seddrik on January 25, 2012, 06:31:29 am

I am verily thankful for the talking bears reply.  It reminds me of a circus act I have once seen... very entertaining.  I encourage you all to see the rejoinder in the first post to his most humorous attempt at logic.  And remember to glance at Why is nerfing good for the game?.  I am sure you will find it interesting that the very #1 argument I have listed is what this rather smart player (for a bear) has used.


I shall remind you all of the underlying message for this whole post, which is vividly displayed in my new avatar.  I sense that this BEAR has been subjected to the same experience as DD_BigBoi.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 25, 2012, 11:32:10 am

THIS JUST IN!  A_BEAR_IRL JUST FACED OFF WITH A 2H MACE WIELDER!  The result? 

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/blackeyer.jpg/)

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: Teeth on January 25, 2012, 12:51:10 pm

Mace was OP, deal with it.

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: a_bear_irl on January 25, 2012, 01:43:48 pm

Quote from: seddrik on January 25, 2012, 11:32:10 am

THIS JUST IN!  A_BEAR_IRL JUST FACED OFF WITH A 2H MACE WIELDER!  The result? 

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/blackeyer.jpg/)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: "THE DEV" aka "Poor Bob!" (A Satire On Nerfs)
Post by: seddrik on January 25, 2012, 11:25:25 pm

MMMmmmm.  Yes.  It seems I need to simplify my replies for these intellectually disabled responders.

Crying (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xRrUVVKigk) OP = Admitting you have no skillz bro.

Bear - If that was the best crying/tears picture I could come up with, I'd be ashamed.  Where'd u get that, Geico advertising (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqt2Nx6y-qI&feature=related)?  And posting that uber poster not once, but twice... DUDE!  Incredible comeback!  Astounding reply!  Its sheer awesomeness makes me want to SCREAM! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6VxtNZjok&feature=related)

JUST IN!!! MORE FOOTAGE ON a_bear_irl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pgIdiji-fk)!!!  This is the actual footage of when that 2h mace user smacked him in the face!

BTW!  What could be better than a Dev's own admission that they nerf things insanely much?
A Dev's cRpg Profile (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php?action=profile;u=5925)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: a_bear_irl on January 26, 2012, 02:44:04 am

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: Kafein on January 26, 2012, 02:48:34 am

U mad because the dev slightly nerfed one of the most inarguably OP weapons ? You don't sound biaised at all.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: Tristan on January 26, 2012, 02:56:47 am

@op: Seriously? I don't know even know what weapon you are talking about.

fail...

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: seddrik on January 26, 2012, 04:19:01 am

After reading the Admin's response to the OP charge, I must chuckle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBZUDlM8flY) in agreement.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: Malaclypse on January 26, 2012, 05:13:04 am

Seems like a fine weapon to me, but I never used it before tonight on an alt, so maybe it's a placebo case of not knowing what I'm missing. Anyhow, not sure what the fuss is about, had no troubles with it, only dying to my own mistakes as usual. A slight change doesn't really change the effectiveness of the weapon. Most of that is determined by the user. I have noticed, though, that less ranged units are using it as a back-up weapon for whatever reason, and I support more variety.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: Zerran on January 26, 2012, 05:33:34 am

^
^
This. Seriously, the weapon you use only has a slight effect on how well you'll do. Was in the duel server yesterday, highest ranked guy there was using a practice sword. And diversity is good, it lets people decide based on their own personal style rather than saying "Well, I like the style and looks of <weapon> better, but the mace's stats are better so I should go with that." Internal balance is important.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: seddrik on January 26, 2012, 05:52:46 am

"Diversity" = All weapons must be equally BAD?  Since when did a weapon that was NEVER on the top of the charts in such need of a nerf?  This kind of "balance" and "diversity" robs the game of its enjoyment.  Its main use was among hybrids/archers.  And even as a primary weapon it never over did it.  But hey, NERF IT ANYWAY for the sake of "internal balance"!  Lets forget the fun factor...

Practice sword is long and fast for a low level weapon, plus it has knock down.  I expect to see a nerf on it too eventually.
Short spear is really really fast & has a knock down.  I expect it to be nerfed sooner rather than later.

If the only thing that can allowed to be fast and effective for its level are high level weapons (and loomed ones), then just forget 90% of the players who are still regenning/leveling.  Just givem all sticks and have at it.

But none of this is new.  Please refer to Why is nerfing good for the game? to see the answer to your witless remarks of approval for this kind of nerf.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: Malaclypse on January 26, 2012, 07:22:46 am

Practice Longsword doesn't have knockdown. "Short" (I guess you mean Shortened) Spear doesn't have knockdown. Not sure what that part was all about.

When something is nerf'd it is all but useless, you know, like the toy guns of the same name. Mace is still plenty useful if a little slower. 98 speed with 28 blunt damage and knockdown, in 1 slot, unheirloomed; plus it's only difficulty 8, dang man, and 2 pounds to boot! Works great in game. Still not sure why you're calling a reduction a nerf.

It's just a change. The weapon isn't broken. If you're going to stop using a weapon you REALLY like because the stats changed a little bit then that sucks, I guess. I wouldn't unless it was an extremely drastic change, like removing 5 speed, 10 damage, 20 length, etc.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: seddrik on January 26, 2012, 07:40:32 am

Practice Longsword does knock down. I've used it and had it happen.  The spear, I meant pole stun.  Those weapons are used mostly by low level people seeking something to compensate for their low level.... Like the 2H mace was.  And rarely as a primary weapon by a higher level person for fun.  Obviously not many higher level characters used this due to obvious disadvantages compared to better weapons.  It was just fun to play as it was.

As has been noticed, it is now used even less.  Why was it necessary to "reduce" it?  Even if someone loomed it 3 times it was NEVER comparable to weapons used to top the boards.  No attempts have been made to answer this fact, if it has been addressed at all.  All arguments are simply subjective "balance" gibberish, "OP" nonsense, or such like.  WHY NERF?REDUCE?DIMINISH?DEFLATE? an already low level weapon that never was used to dominate?  The only thing it does is reduce the fun and enjoyment of low level players (regenning) and discourage hybrids/archers from melee.  The result of this nerf is to reveal the utterly unintelligent use of "balance" by DEVs and players alike.

If the argument that its a "minor change" or "still effective" ( (i.e. just as effective as before?) is true - then why did a previoius poster admit to seeing it used less now?  Obviously players who used it before see a difference.

Yes. I have stopped using it.  This one point of speed difference has reduced it to being inferior to other low level weapons out there.  I enjoyed the idea of having an uber short weapon as I leveled with which I could still MAYBE kill one or 2 guys.  Now... meh.  Devs get a clue please.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: Malaclypse on January 26, 2012, 07:59:54 am

I saw a difference in it's use. Use is based on player choice. Player's don't always choose sensibly, sometimes choosing not to use something simply because it was changed. Use is not directly indicative of effectiveness.

Why can archers no longer use it, exactly? They can. And effectively if they have some Power Strike. They are choosing not to, and I cannot see why, because the weapon plays fine. If it's just because they are accustomed to the weapon with 1 more speed, then I don't know what to say. I've played with all sorts of weapons, in Native and in cRPG, and 1 speed is extremely minor.  Oh my god, one of many weapons that I enjoy using was changed slightly, I am having NO FUN NOW? Are you serious?

Did it "need" to be changed? No, but nothing "needs" to be. There's another module out there that's basically static that you might enjoy, it's called Native. You won't have to worry about stat changes there, and it needs more players.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: seddrik on January 26, 2012, 08:21:14 am

Your comments are not new, and already addressed.  Please see my first post, the section on "To Mr Potato Head."  I see a definite likeness.

But just in case there are any lazy readers... and witless ones...
1. "simply because it was changed" - It was changed, for the worse.  A drop in use after a patch obviously indicates that people see it as less enjoyable and/or effective.  While SOME players run with theme characters, I dare say many (if not most) use what seems effective to them.
Unless you are ready to argue that a reduction in speed is a BENEFIT and not a DETRIMENT, your argument has FAILED.  Next!

2. One point in speed on paper surely doesn't look like much.  And on some weapons it may not affect them, because they have high damage or longer reach, or are commonly used by higher level players.  But on a very short weapon, with relatively little damage... it makes a world of difference.  So unless you are willing to argue that a reduction in speed is a BENEFIT, and not a DETRIMENT... then the argument FAILS.  Next!

3. I know hybrids who no longer use it, because not only was ranged nerfed (in recent paches) but now their back-up weapon has been too.  So, if ur primary AND secondary weapon has been "reduced" even "minorly", will you call that MORE enjoyable and effective or less?  Next!

Again, the focus of my arguments is that it was an incredibly unnecessary nerf.  It penalizes low levels and secondary users on an already weaker weapon, and takes away from a fun (tho already weaker) build even at high levels.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: [ptx] on January 26, 2012, 08:26:42 am

You are trying very hard to achieve the most butthurt user of the month award, aren't you? Might just win...

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: Nagasoup on January 26, 2012, 08:45:56 am

I must say seddrik, I was very touched by the story of bobthenoob... how tragic  :cry:

Nerfing the 2h mace's stats has actually lowered the diversity of viable high level weapons in this game.

Sure, the nerf may have reduced it's usage as a side-arm for ranged players, but it also reduced its effectiveness as a primary weapon for high level players that actually LIKE the mace. I know I know, it's hard for some of you to imagine that there are 2h players that stray away from the generic greatsword swinging playstyle, but those players do exist. Yes, that's right, some meleers actually enjoy using the mace as a primary weapon, who would've thought?

As of now, expensive high end 2h swords outclass the short little mace, and as there are no similar high level weapons to replace the mace, it forces people who like that playstyle to switch weapons and become another generic greatsword user, REDUCING the diversity of weapons in this game.

So either add a high level weapon similar to the mace with higher cost and slot requirement, or undo the nerf to the mace.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On Nerfs).
Post by: seddrik on January 26, 2012, 08:51:34 am

FINALLY!  An intelligent reply!  I am amazed and astounded.

Not only has the poster captured the essence of the problem, but he has offered an intelligent suggestion.  While it would still be sad to penalize levelers and ranged by making a similar (prenerf) weapon that is more expensive or that required more slots it would at LEAST allow the option of that style of fun and game play for a dedicated, higher level user (which at times I admit to having done with relish & ketchup).  It was fun that way, and also a great counter to speed spam players.  But alas... 'tis hindered and inferior now...

As for newer players and pre gen 18+ ones, most of the really good weapons are cost prohibitive since u r saving and buying gear (at least I am anyway).  Personally, I miss the days when you could just buy gear and play without the stupid repairs (which the Devs in all their wisdom have imposed upon us).  So much more fun facing MONSTER geared players who were level 40+, having to actually gang up on them to take them down... was epic fun.  Way more fun than enduring 16+ gens (to lvl 31 no less) of repeated peasantry just trying to GET gear enough to compete, and even then having to return to peasantry for hours just to save money up to play high gear again for an hour.  But still... I see that this suggestion is a step in the right direction, though I still plea for underdogs, newbs, and peons like BobTheNoob.

Plus, he sagely exposes how the nerf actually reduced the variety in gameplay.

And most importantly of all!  He liked my story. (cough)

So to Nagasoup, I will say:  BRAVO!

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Malaclypse on January 26, 2012, 10:33:16 pm

If I walked into cRPG (with a knowledge of basic game mechanics) without ever having known the past behind the Mace, I could not see any reason to think the Mace was a bad weapon.

That is the main point I am attempting to make. Remove nostalgic bias and it's fine.

I've been using this thing on multiple characters just to see if there was anything inherently bad about it, and I'm stumped. If I'm looking at it stat-wise, it's still superior to or equal with the majority of one-handed blunt counterparts, with a much lower difficulty. It's more than one thousand gold cheaper than Iberian Mace which has extremely similar stats outside of difficulty (+1 speed -1 length -5 difficulty, everything else identical) and it uses two-hand animations to boot. If anything it should cost more as well as the speed reduction, because it's still a beastly piece of equipment comparatively, if you're looking at it that way- in terms of internal item balance, which for an unfinished mod, a changing and developing mod, is a good way to look at it in my opinion. Though admittedly, as Shine nailed on page one, not looking at what people enjoy and are attached to when balancing items has drawbacks:

Quote from: MrShine on January 23, 2012, 05:56:14 am

I think mace nerf was justified simply because it was too good for its price and stats and being 1 slot.  Ironically though mace is rarely used outside of ranged sidearm, so it was melee/ranged hybrids who were hurt the most from this chance.

Having said that, I've been having about as much fun using it and faring about as well as I usually do with any other gear. Maybe it's just because I enjoy the sum of the game more than any single element , I don't know. None of my toons currently have any proficiency in two-handed weapons, so I honestly cannot swing it any slower than I am now, and I'm having no trouble keeping up in the normal block/hit paradigm, except where it's my own mistake, trying something fancy like a double swing, feint, chamber or kick and failing.

Anyhow, to address your argument directly, yeah, it was unnecessary in one sense, but necessary in another. Considering that the goal of the dev team is to create a balanced mod and the idea of balance is something which can be largely subjective, the change may be totally necessary in one sense, and not at all in another.

Look, I know there's a nostalgia factor. We're creatures of habit. We like what we know. We want the things we love to not change. We all want Bar Mace and Morningstar to have Crushthrough again, and the pain of their loss... it keeps us awake at night, mad nerds for we are. I want the old xp system back. I would like my buckler to have a crazy dumb forcefield again. I want to stab through the ground with my sword while spinning 1080 degrees to kill five people. The old hammer model was way cuter. I should be able to bring a huscarl, a one hand, and two-two handed weapons to the fight. I can't halfsword really fast to make it look like I'm jerking it. I'm a man and I can't wear a dress. My hair isn't pink anymore. I miss being pinpoint accurate with a bow whose arrows shot on a laser guided path, sometimes. I miss REAL peasants. It'd be cool to have that 100xp a gen bonus back, and it was nice when looming gave a little more benefit; these are the things that haunt our dreams at night. It is my hope that we'll get up anyway, and we will play again, bravely, with grace and camaraderie, where we shed our attachments to numbers and things, and stand, together, united in our love of the game over all else, I have sunk the thing! \o/

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 26, 2012, 11:40:09 pm

Well. Malaclypse, I can appreciate your reply.  It actually was witty!!!!!!!!!  Even though I disagree a bit with your conclusion.

"a beastly piece of equipment comparatively" - Eh.  Not really ever considered it beastly.  I understand the mace was "better" than others of its level.  But it NEVER excelled on the scoreboards by itself.  There were NEVER any users who rocked the crpg world by using it alone.  The ONLY argument for nerfing it was some subjective, mystical, magical argument for "internal game balance" or such like.  In reality it robbed low level players of a needed degree of ability.

Is it still usable? sure.  Is it AS usable, does it have the edge it had that made it really fun to play? I think the decrease in use by players shows it no longer has that.  The game is going from FUN to just grinding with pathetic excuses for weapons until ONE DAY you get enough loomed gear AND get to level past 31 to compete... which takes quite a while.  I get BORED playing just one character with one class for months.  I want FUN options for weapons at all levels, not just when I will someday get maxed gear and higher levels.  I have alts, none of which can purchase looms off the market to speed the process.  So removing / diminishing weapons that are actually FUN (tho not even anywhere NEAR dominating) is a real destruction of the enjoyment of the game.

The argument that the mace was "too good for its price and stats and being 1 slot" is very subjective.  I would much rather see MORE weapons of better quality like it than less.  It would make lower levels and other options more playable/fun.  I'm more interested in a FUN GAME than an "internally balanced" game.  Aren't you?  (SHOUTS:  HEY DEVs DID YOU HEAR THAT??? FUN IS MOAR IMPOTANT!!)

You mention enjoying the sum of the game more than any single element.  Thats probably part of it.  I know I die a lot no matter what I use.  but I found that the mace allowed me to play with a little better survival rate formerly.  But now, as in my story of BobTheNoob, even with a 2H build I get half the measely few kills I did get with it before due to this adjustment.  I know, I know.  People troll saying thats crutching on the weapon.  But we have all seen it.  A guy rocking the boards with loomed gear takes his gear off and does average or not nearly as well.  Gear DOES affect gameplay, though people deny it in their ever so egotistical declarations of expertise.  Some people of course are better than others, and you haven't been a regular user of that mace.  So u may not see the difference it makes to others who use it leveling or as a backup weapon, or even as an occasional primary weapon. 

I quote:  "Anyhow, to address your argument directly, yeah, it was unnecessary in one sense, but necessary in another. Considering that the goal of the dev team is to create a balanced mod and the idea of balance is something which can be largely subjective, the change may be totally necessary in one sense, and not at all in another."

Yes.  The mysterious goals of the DEV team... highly subjective.  Not necessary yet still somehow necessary.  Thats the whole point of my thread.  : P  I'm not against ALL nerfs.  If something obviously dominated the game based on stats, then fine "balance it".  But the 2H mace was NOTHING anywhere NEAR any such concern.  If it isn't broken... why "fix" it?  Thus, I blame the Eviiiiiillllll Devs for their destruction of the fun of the game in this and similar pointless (in a practical game mechanics way) nerfs.  Ha! Ha!  Malaclypse you have sustained my point that the Devs are deviously masterminding the destruction of this game!  Admit it! You see it too!  You may have hope to enjoy the game still, but you as much as admitted that many nerfs have happened that have diminished the entertainment value of the game!

And finally, I commend you on your witty reply.  Finally people are cluing in on what I have been warning about.  If a reply is made that is totally witless, I shall thoroughly demean and denounce the thoughtless contribution!  Give not just emotional and baseless argument!  Nor give dry and boring replies!  Be witty!  Or be ridiculed!

I still maintain my premise:  Devs are destroying fun, for the sake of so called "balance"; even when there was no real imbalance!

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Elmokki on January 27, 2012, 12:19:53 am

I used mace quite a bit last gen as a 21/21 twohander build - though I used a lot of Langes Messer, Fighting Axe and Goedendag too.  The mace itself wasn't overpowered at all with those stats, the fact that it only takes 1 slot was - when you didn't want to take ANY onehanded mace instead of it regardless of price as a sidearm there seriously was something wrong.

Basically the best solution would've been to separate it as a twoslotter with the stats it had (it was cheap enough to warrant it being "bad" 2 slotter) and oneslotter with stats around what they are now. Or they could've just made it 2 slot without adding a substitute. There are tons of onehanders for sidearms already anyway.

So yeah, a nerf was very much warranted, but I don't know if it was the right one.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 27, 2012, 01:04:53 am

It was ALMOST fine before... needed to be two-slot, as there were a lot of worse two-handers which were oneslot, and infact this was the only 2slot two-hander, but besides from that it is fine.

Also: Unnerf throwing you bastards!

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 27, 2012, 01:54:11 am

I could almost agree with making it 2 slot and restore the speed to 99, just to allow the dedicated 2 hander the option of a fun (tho obviously weaker) weapon.  It would still really rob the hybrids of a useful weapon (again it was NEVER over powered anyway...herp derp).  The reason I don't like the short spear for a backup weapon on hybrids is that the stupid thing blocks my view when I shoot... lol.

Honestly, something I've seen rarely are one handed weapon users going NON-shield for speed.  People think the ol' 2h mace was fast and "too much"?  Dude, go one hand Flanged Mace and see how fast THAT is if you have wpf in it too....  and it costs 1000g less than 2h mace... When u gonna nerf THAT Devs? huh huh huh?  Or what about one handers with over 100 speed at low levels... thats "too fast" (I cry big tears see? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDtcyVbPvC4I)) Where will "internal balance" end?

I agree Throwing has been really hurt.  My dedicated thrower is garbage now.  24str 8 PT... and TWO throwing lances (IF they even hit someone) can't kill average things.  Evviiiilllll Devs.......


And LOL!!!!! I've been given a new rank! HAHAHAHAH!!!!! that's so hilarious.  Who did that?  lol  GG whoever did it.   :D

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Meow on January 27, 2012, 02:18:10 am

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 27, 2012, 02:21:59 am

Meow.  I like you.  You helped me before.  But... is that the BEST you can do???

(click to show/hide)

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FAIL! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id3nik5Rldw)   
:lol:  (Hint:  Click "fail" and look for the kitty in the fish bowl... and the kitty playing blocks LOL) (Skip the bad lang parts tho  : /)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 27, 2012, 02:22:21 am

Hmm...

I think this is spiraling has spiraled out of control.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Xant on January 27, 2012, 03:12:22 am

Quote from: seddrik on January 26, 2012, 11:40:09 pm

Be witty!  Or be ridiculed!

Wow! Nobody could possible endure being ridiculed by an utter retard like you, who doesn't even know what satire is.

(And staying true to every retard's M.O, only the posts agreeing with the retard are "intelligent")

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 27, 2012, 03:28:10 am

The above witless poster is an example of those in the 10% of my poll who just don't get it.

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(Lol, I'm having more fun doing this thread than playing cRpg :shock:)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: [ptx] on January 27, 2012, 08:33:46 am

Your way of writing your posts makes me want to punch a kitten. Also, +1 to Xant, for a change.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Dezilagel on January 27, 2012, 08:37:04 am

What is this thread and what does it do?

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 27, 2012, 08:59:49 am

ptx... I ignored your previous post.  But if you insist...

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Hey Devs, can ptx buy a sense of humor off the market? plox?

Dezilagel, did you read anyth...    oh nevermind.

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To Meow:

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Even tho u r a DEV (ieeeww!), I'm still grateful for your kind help!  :wink:
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And remember Devs!  If u want people to be BORED with the game, keep on nerfing even already low end items!  That way only when someone is lvl 35 and all loomed can they really have fun!

OH... and I JUST now noticed.... even when you loom it 3 times to get it to MIGHTY... it STILL has 98 speed?  Wow.  S.T.U.P.I.D.  Some Dev really WAS mad about gett'n slapped in the face by it.

May I make a suggestion to Devs? UNNERF IT.  Period.
At the least make it where when u loom it it can be 99 speed again, tho that would still rob levelers of a fun weapon (which has never been OP).  Or restore the speed and remove 1 point of damage.  Or restore it and just up the price some...  it is already more expensive than its one handed equivalent tho...  Anything is too much of a nerf, the stats are not incredibly-uber-rock-the-boards-top-score-users-dominate anyway.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: isatis on January 29, 2012, 10:26:27 pm

Laughed, love your writing.

also, maybe -2 dmg, -1 speed and - x weight was a bit too much

but I must point out the fact, practice longsword has no knockdown (or maybe it's a sneaky one...)


also, the mace not alone on the no speed adding when loomed goedendag got it too and that's the true problem...

BUFF goedendag!
and de-nerf a bit mace
BUFF goedendag!

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 30, 2012, 05:01:07 pm

Yeah goed is fun, but a bit slow to be real handy.  If it at least had a +1 speed when loomed that would be nice.  But DEVs fear such things...  They have nightmares of embarassing moments getting beat'n down by peasants...

I agree with isatis's point:
BUFF goedendag!  DE-NERF the mace!

As for my writing... venomous humor is memorable & entertaining (even if so many juvenile trolls don't get it).  Speaking of which, I have a spoof to write:


I was hum-drumming along on the server just yesterday.  Borred out of my skull playing my 2H because I had no 2h mace to turn to for fun (sniff).  When low and behold I found reason to be indignant and furious all over again.  I was beaten, shamelessly and cruelly smacked down... by of all things... a "Practice Longsword".   :shock:

As I perished brutally under the clubbing I received, I clicked and watched this player proceed to have a 6 kill streak in one round.  Surely, I thought to my most humbled and humiliated self, SURELY this weapon is more deserving of a nerf than the lowly 2h mace.  THIS weapon, the Practice Sword, is WAY longer than the mace.  It is a wopping 117 length!  For a cheap weapon, that is SURELY OP.  AND it is only 1.5 weight and speed 94?  Are you kidding me?  That thing zips around like a hot knife through butter! Not only that but it is ONLY 2 slots???  Come on!!!  It needs to be three slots for sure.  And to top it all off, it is only 239 gold... so that it costs nothing to repair.  Thats thousands less than the mace!  And yet... here was this fully armored guy running around dominating the game with it!?!?!  And, he is PROOF that the Practice Longsword has knockdown!  Everyone he hit got knocked down! (cough)

Please consider Exhibit A, where Sir_Ricardito_stupidnamesalot (upper right side of the list) has 6 kills brutally obtained in one uber round.
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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/ricardo1.jpg/)

Here is the screenie of his raging mahem while holding the infernal weapon itself:
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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/ricardo2.jpg/)

I therefore submit my plea to the higher powers!  If there is any sense of decency within you, you MUST nerf this internally unbalanced weapon. Its stats are unfair compared to other two-handed weapons.  It is longer and lighter, and way more effective than it should be! (Give me a minute... I think I can work up a tear... yes.  Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I), I caught it on camera for you.  Isn't that sooo pitiful???)  Who can resist this powerful logic and emotional appeal to nerf this weapon?!?

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The following is an interpretation dumbed down for the witless:

1.  That link to the baby.. tell that momma to put the stupid camera down and comfort that poor baby!  lol

2.  No.  I am not REALLY lobbying for a nerf of the practice sword.  No, I am not REALLY mad over getting clubbed.  I thought it was hilarious.

3.  While my argument is a mockery of what people typically argue to support unnecessary nerfs, it is also LACKING in what such typical arguments likewise lack... which is the consideration of whether the weapon was loomed, whether the player had a lvl 30  build or even a lvl 35 str build so that he could 1 hit people, whether the people he hit were already wounded or had lighter gear on, whether they were even paying that much attention, whether he snuck up on them and got luck hits...  It also does not inform us about whether this guy was able to do more than one round of domination.  The next 4-5 rounds he was lucky to get 2-3 more kills............ herp derp.  But you know how it goes, some poor slob gets wacked, sees this guy's one round of glory, and thus rage posts demanding a nerf.

4.  Devs get bombarded daily by these whining, crying juvenile petitioners... and thus cRpg gets traumatized by nerd rage & nermy old friende, and the hand (of course) of the Eviiiiiillllll Dev.


Speaking of the Eviiiiiilllll Dev, I finally was able to video tape the Dev while he was playing golf with his buddies.  If you do not believe me that he is a cruel & malicious character... then just watch this footage:  "Developer Caught In Action" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81fwEmP2CKY).

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 30, 2012, 06:48:36 pm

I've never been an archer or ranged player, but when I was looking at making an archer or xbow build the obvious choice to use would be the 2h mace.  It's the only 1 slot 2h'er, has knockdown, does good damage, and is pretty fast.  Not to mention then you have the option of picking up a 2 slot 2h'ed weapon and dominate. 

I personally don't think they should have a 1 slot 2handed weapon.  If you want a 1 slot weapon, use 1h'ers.

But I'm not a big fan of nerfs, so I'd be a hypocrite to suggest what I feel, that they should have made this a 2 slot weapon like every other 2h'er.  But I say revert the ranged nerf, and let things be for a while, they are pretty well balanced as is.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 31, 2012, 02:59:55 am

Well, everyone has different feelings on the matter.  No doubt.  But which would you prefer?  A ranged guy with a weapon he feels confident in at least TRYING to use in melee (but which is terrible terribly short) or a ranged with just some weapon he really doesn't want to use at all (and so he runs away more)?  I know we all love seeing those archers run away (cough).

Just on a practical level and fun level, a low level weapon has been made weaker.... which is really dumb.  As I've stated... oh.... 1000 times?  (Eventually you will see it my way! muahahah!)  It never did dominate the scoreboard before... so what if it was better than other low level weapons?  Short spear is too, and practice longsword... shall we just squelch and squish, stomp and strangle any low level weapon that is "good" for its level?  All that does is give hybrids, ranged, low level players fewer options to enjoy.  And it gives higher level players less variety to choose from.  I admit, I get bored with just my big 2h sword.  Sometimes I used to just grab that old mace for the challenge and fun.  Now, I'm too sick of the difference I don't want to touch it.  It just is not enjoyable like it was.  Not that I ever got 40-50 kills with it anyway... (herp derp).

UNERF THE MACE! UNNERF THE MACE!

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: isatis on January 31, 2012, 03:24:12 am

your post made me use that tiny bastard on my archer alt

i'm so sad... I've respecced to spammy archer so no more mace avaible and i feel better (nerfing yourself is good, it bring eviiiiiil dev on other side and you feel powerful... what? masochism? nerver heard of it...)

after i wanted to see how it would  word iwth my now ''agi'' 2h main, horrible... it seem like wpf don't do anything to this thing and brrrrr even my wooden stick knockdown more!

I got a sensible idea!
must hide it under some spoiler to make it lazy troll proof

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Ok you there let's start after one other

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fake trollin :P

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so now here's my idea: why not only buffing heirloom of mace so only dedicaced mace user can use it with efficacity?
cool idea eh?

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 31, 2012, 04:52:27 am

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That would be WAY better than what they did to it...

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: isatis on January 31, 2012, 04:56:28 am

we so connected... OMG you even got fuzzy on your irc name...

let's change the world step by step! starting by heirloom of mace (and goedendag)!

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on January 31, 2012, 04:36:52 pm

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OBITUARY 1-31-12

This day, we memorialize the passing of a legend.  Most of us have played with him online.  Many have had their egos destroyed and as well as their KD ratio stymied.  It is a bitter sweet commemoration, in knowing that while we will no longer have to endure face smashing humiliation, yet... we will miss his intimidating build.

Of whom do I speak?  Why Silveredge of course.

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Yes, I see you reading this as I edit it Silver!!! lol

Why?  He has posted his Mighty Mace on the market and is looking for a MW Heavy Bastardsword instead.  Ahhh... it brings tears to my eyes.  (sniff)  Can you imagine seeing him without that mace?  It just doesn't seem right.  Rounding the corner... seeing him in his burnt orange/red armor... carrying that crossbow and black mace.  But it is quite understandable... considering what has happened.

This is not unlike others I know who have played less since the demise of the mace.  Some were feared and respected... and now... there is a void in our cRpg lives.  A vast emptiness that has not been filled, and may well never be.  (sniff)

Let us then remember these esteemed mace wielders.  May their maces find happy homes.  When they are brought out again, may it be with fond memories... free from the burden of nerfs and chains of cry babies.  Perhaps one day, they can again sparkle in the sunlight, and zip into someones face with devastating effect.  Until then... we wish stomach aches and regret up the Eviiiiiiiilllll Dev(s) who have brought about this sad time.  May they moan with regret and sorrow like this cat:

(click to show/hide)

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And as the following tomb marker indicates... beware of the Dev's for...

(click to show/hide)

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on January 31, 2012, 05:11:35 pm

The mace in it's current form is no longer worth the 3 heirloom points, other weapons have too much of an advantage for the trade off that this mace has.  It has stupid short reach and it used to do good damage because of that fact.  Now it has been dropped an entire tier in damage and "hits-to-kill".  What makes it worse is that it's the only 1 slot 2 hander in the game, so I pretty much built my entire character around that weapon.  Quite a few people have followed me down that road, and are facing the fact that they might have to start over because of this nerf.  Using this mace you have to put yourself in harms way just to hit the enemy.  It's not like LUBU's Poleaxe, Tyrian's Danish, or Goretooth's Bec where they can backpedal and hit players from a distance.  I have to block consecutively when going after a backpedaling enemy.  I really shouldn't say this but the worse thing to fight is a person who keeps distance from you.  It almost cancels out the mace if the person knows the reach of it, it's that sad.  It's only a good weapon if people want to go toe to toe with you, so you're not hitting air as they kill you with their 100+ reach.  And it gets nerfed...

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 31, 2012, 05:15:30 pm

You guys are biased who use this.  Nobody responded to my post? 

It's THE ONLY 2h weapon that is 1 slot.  It does blunt damage and knockdown.  It's the perfect archer/xbow weapon for not only that reason but also for the fact that you have 2h weapon proficiency so you can drop the 2h mace and pick up a two handed sword and now you have a powerful weapon in your hands.

I personally don't think they should even have a 1 slot 2h'ed weapon, if you're an archer or xbow you're an idiot not to use this weapon.  So you got that going for you. 

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on January 31, 2012, 05:27:44 pm

Actually, correct my if I'm wrong but it was the Dev's themselves who made this weapon a 1 slot.  They were working on and promised a 2h that was 1 slot, so they looked at all the 2h's and picked this one.  If the weapon was fine when they analyzed changing it in the first place, why do they need to suddenly go back and nerf it so drastically when it wasn't the case to begin with so long ago?  This was just after they invented the slots system.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 31, 2012, 05:30:00 pm

I don't think they should make it 2 slots, I think they should stop nerfing everything, universally.  That being said, it doesn't make sense that they have ONLY ONE 2 handed weapon as a 1 slot weapon.  It allows you to have 2h WPF and if you need to you can pick up a very nice 2h'ed weapon and go ape shit. 

I repeat, an archer or xbow who doesn't use this weapon has not properly weighed the pro's and con's of using it.  As a person who was only looking at an archer build but never made one this was the "no duh" choice of weapon I would use. 

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on January 31, 2012, 05:44:57 pm

They were originally going to release more 1 slot weapons to open up variety for players who enjoyed the 2h style.  Thats why you see archers using the Langes Messer that turns into a 2 hander when you hit the alternate button (X by default).  A "very nice 2h weapon" is not that nice when it does cut damage, you don't have a ton of PS, and its crazy slow.  Might as well have a faster 2h sword and aim for the face to do good damage, thats what I do anyway.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 01, 2012, 07:05:06 am

Quote

The mace in it's current form is no longer worth the 3 heirloom points, other weapons have too much of an advantage for the trade off that this mace has.  It has stupid short reach and it used to do good damage because of that fact.  Now it has been dropped an entire tier in damage and "hits-to-kill".  What makes it worse is that it's the only 1 slot 2 hander in the game, so I pretty much built my entire character around that weapon.  Quite a few people have followed me down that road, and are facing the fact that they might have to start over because of this nerf.  Using this mace you have to put yourself in harms way just to hit the enemy.  It's not like LUBU's Poleaxe, Tyrian's Danish, or Goretooth's Bec where they can backpedal and hit players from a distance.  I have to block consecutively when going after a backpedaling enemy.  I really shouldn't say this but the worse thing to fight is a person who keeps distance from you.  It almost cancels out the mace if the person knows the reach of it, it's that sad.  It's only a good weapon if people want to go toe to toe with you, so you're not hitting air as they kill you with their 100+ reach.  And it gets nerfed...

And there we have it.  The intelligent testimony of a dedicated hybrid.  An undisputably skilled player, who "built his character around the mace"giving clear and concise explanation of the effects of this nerf.  He can no longer find it sufficiently worthwhile to use it.  He is not a crybaby or a troll, he is the genuine article.  Thus, here we have clear evidence of S.T.U.P.I.D. nerfing of a low level weapon and thereby the destruction of the fun in this game by... yes you guessed it... the Eviiiilllllll Dev!

I think Silver's description is extremely comprehensive.The mace was fast but could easily enough be countered by a longer weapon.  It already had limitations!  To use it you really had to be good to get in close!  But now... it is being set aside.  No more will we all be spell bound, watching the end of a round with toughs like Silver holding off 3-4 guys.  Knowing they are at a disadvantage but knowing there is that chance... that their skill can yet pull it off.  Ahhh.... no more... (sniff)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Xol! on February 03, 2012, 09:28:39 pm

Quote from: seddrik on January 30, 2012, 05:01:07 pm

Yeah goed is fun, but a bit slow to be real handy.  If it at least had a +1 speed when loomed that would be nice.  But DEVs fear such things...  They have nightmares of embarassing moments getting beat'n down by peasants...

I agree with isatis's point:
BUFF goedendag!  DE-NERF the mace!

As for my writing... venomous humor is memorable & entertaining (even if so many juvenile trolls don't get it).  Speaking of which, I have a spoof to write:


I was hum-drumming along on the server just yesterday.  Borred out of my skull playing my 2H because I had no 2h mace to turn to for fun (sniff).  When low and behold I found reason to be indignant and furious all over again.  I was beaten, shamelessly and cruelly smacked down... by of all things... a "Practice Longsword".   :shock:

As I perished brutally under the clubbing I received, I clicked and watched this player proceed to have a 6 kill streak in one round.  Surely, I thought to my most humbled and humiliated self, SURELY this weapon is more deserving of a nerf than the lowly 2h mace.  THIS weapon, the Practice Sword, is WAY longer than the mace.  It is a wopping 117 length!  For a cheap weapon, that is SURELY OP.  AND it is only 1.5 weight and speed 94?  Are you kidding me?  That thing zips around like a hot knife through butter! Not only that but it is ONLY 2 slots???  Come on!!!  It needs to be three slots for sure.  And to top it all off, it is only 239 gold... so that it costs nothing to repair.  Thats thousands less than the mace!  And yet... here was this fully armored guy running around dominating the game with it!?!?!  And, he is PROOF that the Practice Longsword has knockdown!  Everyone he hit got knocked down! (cough)

Please consider Exhibit A, where Sir_Ricardito_stupidnamesalot (upper right side of the list) has 6 kills brutally obtained in one uber round.
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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/ricardo1.jpg/)

Here is the screenie of his raging mahem while holding the infernal weapon itself:
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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/ricardo2.jpg/)

I therefore submit my plea to the higher powers!  If there is any sense of decency within you, you MUST nerf this internally unbalanced weapon. Its stats are unfair compared to other two-handed weapons.  It is longer and lighter, and way more effective than it should be! (Give me a minute... I think I can work up a tear... yes.  Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I), I caught it on camera for you.  Isn't that sooo pitiful???)  Who can resist this powerful logic and emotional appeal to nerf this weapon?!?

(click to show/hide)

The following is an interpretation dumbed down for the witless:

1.  That link to the baby.. tell that momma to put the stupid camera down and comfort that poor baby!  lol

2.  No.  I am not REALLY lobbying for a nerf of the practice sword.  No, I am not REALLY mad over getting clubbed.  I thought it was hilarious.

3.  While my argument is a mockery of what people typically argue to support unnecessary nerfs, it is also LACKING in what such typical arguments likewise lack... which is the consideration of whether the weapon was loomed, whether the player had a lvl 30  build or even a lvl 35 str build so that he could 1 hit people, whether the people he hit were already wounded or had lighter gear on, whether they were even paying that much attention, whether he snuck up on them and got luck hits...  It also does not inform us about whether this guy was able to do more than one round of domination.  The next 4-5 rounds he was lucky to get 2-3 more kills............ herp derp.  But you know how it goes, some poor slob gets wacked, sees this guy's one round of glory, and thus rage posts demanding a nerf.

4.  Devs get bombarded daily by these whining, crying juvenile petitioners... and thus cRpg gets traumatized by nerd rage & nermy old friende, and the hand (of course) of the Eviiiiiillllll Dev.


Speaking of the Eviiiiiilllll Dev, I finally was able to video tape the Dev while he was playing golf with his buddies.  If you do not believe me that he is a cruel & malicious character... then just watch this footage:  "Developer Caught In Action" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81fwEmP2CKY).

Heh, that's my old +3 practice longsword!  It's actually quite a good weapon, the length and the speed (and the change to armor a few months ago) make it quite impressive.

That said, I traded it away (obviously), and picked up a +3 mace as my new fun-slot weapon.  It works fairly well with a dedicated 2h build, unfortunately not very good against someone who knows what they're doing, though.

I don't really remember the pre-nerf stats.  I assume it was something like 30 damage, 99 speed (unheirloomed)?  This +3 one I've got is 31 damage and 98 speed.  Perhaps a speed buff on the second heirloom (like most other weapons) would be appropriate.  Hybrids who thought it appropriate to heirloom will still get something close to what they used to have, but it won't be the overwhelming choice for archers/xbows/etc. just looking for a good, cheap backup weapon.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: San on February 04, 2012, 11:37:26 pm

Make more 1h viable for ranged users. There's plenty of spare 1h weapons just sitting around. Never really minded the mace itself. The problem was that it was pretty much the best choice no matter what. Just give them more options instead of neutering their only one.

Edit: to clarify, (relatively, since 1h usable with shield) on par with what the pre-nerf mace was for them while keeping the pre-nerf mace.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Siiem on February 05, 2012, 12:11:04 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNnqjbojqjE

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 05, 2012, 05:34:31 am

Quote

Just give them more options instead of neutering their only one.

I am seddrik.  And I approve of this message. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_approve_this_message)  (Link provided for the intellectually challenged.)


As for Siiem... Siiem..... really... I watched that link and thought "Whats this freaky looking guy... 1970s?"  I wikied... and yup.  LOL   I know ur right tho.... not like the Eviiiiiiiilllll Devs will ever restore such a humble weapon as the mace, much less buff some one handers.  But one can dream...   But Siiem, you did make meh laugh (http://www.pacdv.com/sounds/people_sound_effects/laugh_1.wav).

Well, I guess I will go back to cRpg now.  Though I admit it hasn't been as fun without my mace.  (Click for live recording of me playing cRpg.) (http://www.pacdv.com/sounds/people_sound_effects/snoring-1.wav)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Akynos on February 06, 2012, 10:54:44 am

I played for a long time with a mace. You could almost say that the satiric story is mine...whenevever I wanted to spare money, I went with my good ol mace.But I knew that it was overpowered, I could feel it, and thats why I loved using it when I was still a newbie.hurts a bit to see it nerfed, but hey, lets be tough guys and accept that the game is not ours and we have to make it so that everyone can enjoy it. Its true, sometimes there are rage nerfs going on, but you got to accept the correct nerfs, even if they dont fit what you want. If I want to kill everyone, I go to native,mod a GM to 110 speed and 50b and have fun.So dont be mad, just take it like the price for a multiplayer game.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 06, 2012, 07:28:39 pm

(Uses Superior Brittish Tone)  Ahh, mores the pity... admission that my story has rung true.

But Mr. Akynos, I must warn of the dangers of witless replies.  To accept, to tolerate without protest the declaration that the mace was "over powered" is beyond reason.  Such an assertion cannot be accepted on any premise heretofore affirmed by opponents and proponents alike.  And being that this has been most thoroughly addresed in previous posts I shall not belabor the point more.

But passing over this inane argument, your admission of the loss of joy in the game is quite well communicated.  For you have admitted to having to leave the mod altogether to garner the enjoyment you once were able to find within it.

A fine admission indeed.

Therefore I heartilly recommend to the Eviiiiillllll Devs visiting and participating in the following website, whose opening line is very appropriate and applicable.

http://www.admittingfailure.com/

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 06, 2012, 07:52:35 pm

I never really had a problem with the Mace, i mean it is really short and didnt hurt that bad. The only thing i hated about it is that people always chose it over good looking onehanders while it looks like crap. But i guess that means it is superior to all the 1h's which is why they chose mace, but then imo the nerf should just have made the mace 2 slot instead.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 07, 2012, 09:59:34 pm

Quote

I never really had a problem with the Mace, i mean it is really short and didnt hurt that bad.

^^

Quote

The only thing i hated about it is that people always chose it over good looking onehanders while it looks like crap.

Certainly, looks are first thing I look for too!  No one really cares about performance (http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/8/21/89674c00-c572-4321-a985-96b39d3d6c8a.jpg)!

Quote

But i guess that means it is superior to all the 1h's which is why they chose mace, but then imo the nerf should just have made the mace 2 slot instead

It is 1 slot so that a variety of players may have the OPTION of using a 2hander or 1hander or pole with other things (like crossbows or longer pollarms).  The nerf has lessened its use dramatically and ruined some of the more entertaining & fun builds in the game.  Never mind that it was a terribly short weapon and did nto hit that hard....  it was "better than others of its level" so it had to be destroyed.

It should have been left alone. (http://www.funnysign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/not-only-will-this-hurt-you.jpg)
The best suggestions have been (1) leave it alone & perk some other low level weapons a little bit or (2) at least allow it to be loomed back to its original state. As it is now its like having rocks nerfed.  Rocks are WAY more accurate than other low level throwing items and you have WAY more ammo than others.  And when people loom them.... man have you seen how many headshots people get from them?  Thats just unfair!! (cry cry)  Surely they are OP and internally unbalanced.... (Aren't you thoroughly convinced by these arguments?)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Fasader on February 08, 2012, 02:59:32 am

hey, seddrik:
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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: isatis on February 08, 2012, 03:18:46 am

Quote from: Fasader on February 08, 2012, 02:59:32 am

hey, seddrik:
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oh shit... ninja lobby didn't do his job right!

FASADER IS BACK!!

peasant run! your item is in danger!

(click to show/hide)

Quote from: Leshma on February 05, 2012, 02:59:10 pm

I heard that Katana and other weeaboo stuff will be removed. I heard that from Fasader before he disappeared...

Ninja lobby is strong!

not that strong...

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Casimir on February 08, 2012, 04:42:54 am

http://youtu.be/KcM9lGauR5U#t=25s

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on February 08, 2012, 05:00:19 pm

Quote from: Fasader on February 08, 2012, 02:59:32 am

hey, seddrik:
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Now I know why I never post on forums very often.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 08, 2012, 05:15:07 pm

Been saving this for a special occasion.  For the the "Just because I can post something" posters:

(click to show/hide)

Even Worf knows when something is stupid...

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To the poster who posted the "didn't read" item... my only reply to you is...

(click to show/hide)

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To get things back on topic.  Yes Casimir.  What the Eviiiiiilllllllll Devs did amounts to a declaration of war.  Even Silveredge's reaction shows how badly the Devs messed up in nerfing the 2h Mace.  Silver was just having fun and then...

(click to show/hide)

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Just admit it guys.  I'm too L33T for u!

(click to show/hide)

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Gurnisson on February 08, 2012, 05:56:32 pm

Devs had two options, since it was a no-brainer when choosing a sidearm for your ranged weapon.
- Nerf it
- Make it two slots

One of them happened. I used it as a dedicated xbowman in the good old days myself and it was quite ridiculous how good it was. Good change.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on February 08, 2012, 07:58:14 pm

That's fine, it just gets me at how the game balancer just posted that he doesn't care about the player's feedback.

There are 2 options for a 1 slot 2h spec, only 1 blunt option for 2h spec.  I don't see why you didn't just reduce the damage and not the speed.  The speed change from 99 to 98 makes 0 sense when its that small of a weapon.  Why not make the Goedendag 1 slot to open more options or something?  I prefer 2h animations because you get way less glancing at the beginning and end of the swing compared to 1h animations.

EDIT: I don't condone seddrik's style of arguing, I'm just trying to talk sense here.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 08, 2012, 08:34:54 pm

I agree with Silver's comments. ^^  There were/are more options than just what Gurnisson listed.  And Gurney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurney), the weapon by itself doesn't dominate.  Even good players don't get 40-50 kills with it.  So as for it being rediculous or OP, you may need a DNR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_resuscitate) for that ol' argument.

As for my style of arguing... I chose this method for several reasons:  (1) There are many trolls who make pointless emo statements, so I weed them out quickly; (2) humor and even sarcasim tends to be memorable and draws attention, which I see it has done with this topic; (3) Because Silver, even though you have made some of the most consise and reasonable statements in this whole thread, as you well noted above, some ppl in authority are not concerned with genuine player feed back.  They strangely listen to the noisy, whiny children... so I chose to mimic and parody them in order to be (at least) heard.

I genuinely mean no offense to you Silver or anyone else.  It is a rhetorical strategy and it does work quite well.  And it can be good for a laugh.  If you will note, I even make fun of myself at times or ACT like I am a ego maniac like so many kids who play.  (Most of the time I am laughing too much to type properly and have to edit my comments 20 times over...lol) (And my wife and kids thought the baby panic moment was hilarious.  Silver, tell me you didn't smile at all!)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on February 08, 2012, 09:13:57 pm

A lot of it is funny and I do like that video, but a lot of people just rage right away at that stuff.  Especially Devs, they are very serious people about their work.  It just doesn't help when it goes on for this long.  When anyone tries to say something about the nerfs now, they're just going to be all  "NOT LISTENING!!! :evil:", like Fasader.  I'm very irritated that the "accross the board" weight nerf to Blunt weapons was not taken into account on top of all these nerfs to the mace.  It just seemed like the Devs didn't know how HUGE of a change this was or they really do and are, in my opinion, going overboard with it.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Meow on February 08, 2012, 09:26:02 pm

I think you mistake rage for not caring :mrgreen:

Obviously threads like this in the balancing forum will not be taken serious, i would have moved this to spam a long time ago.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 08, 2012, 09:38:52 pm

I know some people don't care (Devs) (cough), and humor helps to draw interest.  Not unlike your avatar.   :wink:

But Meow!!!  Don't make me extend my claws!  You know I have offered subtsantive comments in here, I've just also peppered it with humor!  Don't even try to NERF my thread!  So, all I'll say to you is...

(click to show/hide)

SHEW CAT!

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Penguin on February 08, 2012, 10:26:10 pm

After using the 2h mace for a week, I am sympathetic to your cause.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on February 08, 2012, 10:52:15 pm

Quote from: Meow on February 08, 2012, 09:26:02 pm

I think you mistake rage for not caring :mrgreen:

Ok, I'll stop posting in the Game Balance forum.  You guys should just remove the Game Balance Discussion Board if you feel that way.  It's fine that you do, just don't give people false hope that their voices mean something or anything will be changed if Devs don't want it.

Edit: I feel like I am making legitimate posts about the 2h mace nerf.  I'm posting in the "2h mace nerf thread" I found.  I don't see why my posts in this thread can't be taken seriously.  I even took the step to make sure I wasn't making a double post.  Please let me know if this is erroneous.  But anyway, we're wasting our breath if it is set in stone as was said above.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: isatis on February 08, 2012, 11:02:31 pm

lot of text.. all read... only one thing intersting:

BUFF GOEDENDAG!!
and de nerf a bit tiny mace

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: RandomDude on February 09, 2012, 03:13:07 am

Basically i think this thread is saying give flamberge the 50+ dmg back.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Bobthehero on February 09, 2012, 03:17:29 am

I approve of this thread then, but I suggest we give back the 30 cut and 31 stab back to the long espada.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Xant on February 09, 2012, 03:27:20 am

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 09, 2012, 04:14:04 am

Xant's depth of commentary and contributions to this thread...

(click to show/hide)

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You keep it up man... I'll give you...

(click to show/hide)

The Eviiiiilll Eeyyyyeeee!!!!

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Oberyn on February 09, 2012, 04:50:39 am

2h mace was OP for it's price but mostly slot usage. If it was up to me I'd have made it 2 slots, end of story. It needed to be nerfed to the equivalent of 1 slot polearms, the quarter staff and the short spear. I'd say it's still superior to either.

Oh and I have no idea why you ever expected anyone to take this thread seriously.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 09, 2012, 03:15:32 pm

Oberyn...

"OP"  - Please refer to post 1, section:  To Mr. "It's-Too-Good"

Because it was BETTER than equivalent 1 slot polearms?  No way.  Different yes.  But its no where NEAR as fast as the shortened spear.  Talk about easy mode blocking...  And the point is not whether it was better than other low level items.  The point is that it NEVER dominated yet was fun and a mainstay of many a build until the nerf ruined all that.  Instead of buffing some other items to provide useful and FUN options they decided to listen to the whiners and NERF one of the few useful & fun low level items.

Your whole argument revolves around this rediculous argument of OP.  -  Please refer to post 1, section:  To Mr. HerpDerp

Still superior?  -  Please see post 1, section:  To Mr Potato Head

Take ME seriously?  You think I want people to take ME seriously? LOL

(click to show/hide)

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And if that wasn't clear enough, let me obfuscate it by pointing you to... 

(click to show/hide)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsgbcYnmR6Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsgbcYnmR6Y)
Yes, the point is in this somewhere... if you can find it.

Not get it yet?  Hint:

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Hint:  Point of view.  Countless arguments.  Deep thought.  (BANG!) I really shouldnt be so upset.  Life goes on.  (BANG!) Hitchhikings good! Towels are good too!  (BANG!) Why you edgy?!?

Still don't get it?  Please refer too post 1, section:  To Mr. "Satire-is-somethingelse-IRL"

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: [ptx] on February 09, 2012, 03:17:49 pm

I get it, you are somewhat... strange in the head...? Right?

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on February 09, 2012, 04:31:38 pm

Quote from: seddrik on February 09, 2012, 04:14:04 am

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actually this picture can be used against you seddrik...

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 09, 2012, 04:55:04 pm

If I were to be serious would the Evviiiiiilllll Devs take me seriously? 

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We have seen just a few comments already in this thread on what they think about serious public opinion by a genuine, stand-up player who used the mace... and now put it up for sale.

If am absurd, do you think I will take trolls seriously?

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Derp!

If I am absurdly serious, will you be seriously absurd?

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Too late I think for the both of us!

If I am seriously absurd, will you be absurdly serious?  Do I even know what that means anymore?

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I illustrate the absurd by being absurd.

To Eviiiiiiillllll Devs:  Devs are OP! Devs need to be nerfed!  Mace was fine before!  Just add 1000 gold to its cost if ur so obsessed with it being a "low level weapon", rather than herp-derping it and making the game less fun!

To Trolls:  There will never be an end of critics and complainers, so If I reduce my presentation to absurdity to begin with, I save you the trouble of needing to post!  See how considerate I am?

I know, I know.  Some will forever be stuck in the mentally challenged department and JuSt DoN't GeT iT!

caveat

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I know the Eviiiiiiiill Devs are people too.  Kinda.  I appreciate the fact that it takes intelligence to do the programing work they do.  Though I wonder where that intelligence goes when they make decisions on what to nerf and why.  If the Eviiiiill Devs have not comprehended the gist of this absurdity, I will now spell it out.

Don't reduce the fun of the game in the name of "balance".  A game is SUPPOSED to be fun.

Don't listen to trolls, whiners and cry babies crying out "Crucify it... Nerf it!".  There will always be pre-teens (in age and mentality) who think that ONLY they should win and ONLY their choices are worth anything.  (The mace didnt guarantee winning, it was definitely not a rock the scoreboards weapon, but it was FUN in that it was able to somewhat compete before if you had skill.)

Don't take my satire with offense.  I will hope that with your intellectual capacity you will grasp that I only did this to get you to read and think about it... herp derp!

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on February 09, 2012, 05:43:50 pm

Quote from: Xant on February 09, 2012, 03:27:20 am

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Thats fcking satire for you. +1

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Kafein on February 09, 2012, 06:32:23 pm

I just realised this thread is now 7 pages long. I never thought it would reach the third one. Someone is very mad.

The question isn't whether the mace "dominates" or not. If it dominated the whole melee field, the situation would be simply horrible. The problem was (and still is, to a lesser degree) that it dominated it's weapon class (that is, 1 slot sidearms, where sidearm means people are not going to invest many, if at all, wpf points in it), undermining all alternatives including 1h, other 1slot 2h and one slot polearms. There isn't such a blatantly better choice when you look at 1h, polearms, horses, shields or throwing weapons... Global balance isn't everything, internal balance matters.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Meow on February 09, 2012, 06:37:54 pm

Quote from: Silveredge on February 08, 2012, 10:52:15 pm

Ok, I'll stop posting in the Game Balance forum.  You guys should just remove the Game Balance Discussion Board if you feel that way.  It's fine that you do, just don't give people false hope that their voices mean something or anything will be changed if Devs don't want it.

Edit: I feel like I am making legitimate posts about the 2h mace nerf.  I'm posting in the "2h mace nerf thread" I found.  I don't see why my posts in this thread can't be taken seriously.  I even took the step to make sure I wasn't making a double post.  Please let me know if this is erroneous.  But anyway, we're wasting our breath if it is set in stone as was said above.

No no, don't get me wrong.
Post that are not aimed at being cluttered with images but actually are readable and bring valid arguments are something completely different.

This is just seddrik trying to be funny and using "satire" as an excuse to have a spam thread in this section.
The way he tries to shut down other people's concern about his "satire" is just lame =(
Obviously for threads to be taken serious they need to be readable to the balancing team which i am not part of.
Serious posts will also be moderated so they actually stay readable.

And off it goes! :mrgreen:

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 09, 2012, 08:07:48 pm

Quote

This is just seddrik trying to be funny and using "satire" as an excuse to have a spam thread in this section.

Quote

The way he tries to shut down other people's concern about his "satire" is just lame =(

You just dont get it then Meow...  Even though a genuine player like Silver stated it in plain terms.  WHY do people play a game like this?  Evidently not the same reason people operate as admins/devs.  Players are here for fun.  Devs/admins seem to be of the mind that fun isn't as important.  As a case in point...

Quote

The problem was (and still is, to a lesser degree) that it dominated it's weapon class... Global balance isn't everything, internal balance matters.

And that is EXACTLY my point.  The pursuit of some idealic "internal balance" that sacrifices the actual fun of the game is counter productive.  Why?  It robs/diminishes lower players & leveling players of fun weapons; and in this case it has robbed/diminished the game of a series of dedicated and hybrid builds (as illustrated by Silver and others who were like him).  There will always be people crying for nerfs of weapons they hate (because they can't seem to figure out how to counter them EVEN tho it is not that hard).  The solution is not removing or nerfing those weapons because these people can't figure out how to counter them.  If you want MORE options for weapons of that level does it really make sense to remove or diminish the 1 option people enjoyed?

  Do you expect people to enjoy the game MORE under those circumstances and think that the Devs made a wise choice because of "internal balance"?

"Internal balance" is evidently about reducing all weapons to a boring less useful level, and has nothing to do with making or keeping the game fun. Like shortening poles.  Yes they were long... but there were meant to be...  and they weren't THAT hard to counter... herp derp block down and MAYBE up for the longest ones.  But it is WAY better to have challenges and variety (that BTW require intelligence and skill to counter) than mediocrity and boredom.

Not to get us off topic, but WoW made this kind of mistake on a grand scale.  They kept removing the challenge, making everything more and more dull until they lost a huge number of subscribers.  I played that game for a long time, and heard many (of the valid) complaints aimed at the removal, time and again, of differences between the classes and the removal of the difficulty in the dungeons.  Thats what I am saying.  Leave the differences.  Let there be challenges to face down.  It results in some really awesome battles and excitement.  As I said to Silver, when I see him now with a mace... I dont even worry.  Where as before it was.... intense.  I want more of that kind of challenge, not less.


So there.  Stated plainly.  Not that it wasn't clear before.   :wink:

And by this time if all someone can perceive in these posts is that I am "mad"... then bless your heart.  There's not much I could say to someone of that mental / emotional capacity.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Bobthehero on February 09, 2012, 11:21:34 pm

I am hungry, buff swashbucklers nerf mace.

Mod is dead otherwise

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: zagibu on February 09, 2012, 11:26:25 pm

Mace Windu is OP.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Bobthehero on February 09, 2012, 11:27:49 pm

Not really :o

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: zagibu on February 09, 2012, 11:33:23 pm

What? He's not an old pumpkinface?

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Bobthehero on February 09, 2012, 11:36:45 pm

nope

l2counterwindu

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: zagibu on February 09, 2012, 11:44:34 pm

Yes, he is, he wrote me a sealed letter confirming it, signed with his own blood. He also said, that in his opinion, the 2h Mace is OP, like him. He even suggested it was named after him because of the OPness.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 10, 2012, 02:01:10 am

See.  When I post "normally" then trolls invade.  Better to deal with them AND make my point at the same time. :twisted:

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: isatis on February 10, 2012, 04:12:16 am

can't belive this as been moved to spamm...

all it was saying is buff goedendag heirloom!!

(and mace by the same time)

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf). Episode 2 now added!
Post by: seddrik on February 10, 2012, 03:10:25 pm

oh wow they DID move it to spam..... proof of what I've been saying then about ppl in charge... regretably.

I'd start a poll to get this moved back... but u can't do a poll once the thread is already started and I doubt that between the admins and trolls we'd get very far.

I am grateful that at least the Devs and Admins agreed to pose for one last picture before discarding this topic...

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Also they shared with us their policy statement:

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-------------------
ATTACK OF THE ADMINS (cRpg Wars - Episode II)

As our last episode closed... Night fell upon cRpg-land.  Fog covered the down-turned faces of many people like BobTheNoob.  Aspirations and enjoyment crushed.  Hopes deflated.  The Eviiiiilll Dev leaned back in his creaky padded chair, crossing his hands in front of himself.  He grabed a potato chip, dropping crumbs down his front as he consumed it noisily.  He sighed in contentment, a smirk slowly developing on his face.  "What next?" he wondered.  "What is the next step towards the total elimination of fun in this game... except, of course, my build and my preferences?"  He chuckled softly.  Leaned forward.  And saw his next step...

He sent forum PM.

In most cases, such a PM would be considered harmless or inconsequential.  But in the case of the Eviiiiiillllll Dev, it was imbued with the full power and dark forces that he could muster.  This PM was sent to the Eviiiiiil Dev's apprentice, Darth Adminius.

Photo of Darth Adminius:

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Darth Adminius is shrowded in darkness and shadow (i.e. she ran out of 75 watt light bulbs) and fur.  Having received the electronic missive which instructs her to squelch and stiffle all fun, she moves into action.  She checks her lunch box, making sure he has a large balogna sandwhich with extra cheese, lemon soda and sardine flavored chips to tide her over. She also makes sure that she has a cookie as a reward to herself when the job will be done.  Then, Darth Adminius leans forward and begins to type.

The keyboard begins to glow with eerie light like a red light saber. (http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/vlue/vlue1001/vlue100100226/6295240-an-abstract-closeup-of-a-red-illuminated-backlit-glowing-computer-keyboard.jpg)  The clack of keys, the swish of swiftly moving fingers... and finally, she hits return to conclude her efforts.  A weighty blow has been struck.  The thread discussing 2h mace nerfs, the thread defending pitiable BobTheNoob's plight, is relegated to the SPAM (http://remainsofthedesi.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/lol-cats-2-final.jpg) section.  (intense music)

Breathing heavily and seething with dark fury, Darth Adminius ponders what to do next.  Lock the topic?  No... let it wallow in spam.  Mute the author?  No... not yet.  Soon perhaps.  Allow him a false victory which will ultimately lead to his defeat?  Yessssss.....  "I will build an army of driod spammers and mechanical cry babies!  Then in the name of the Empire... er, I mean free speech and tolerance!, I will unleash the secret Admin Clone Army to bring "victory".  Then I will be poised to truly dominate the Community! Muahaha... muahahahah. muahahHAHAHAHhahHAhAHAha!!!

An old clock rings out the midnight hour.  As conflict intensifies, hopes are falsely raised only to be crushed beneath the thumb of the Eviiiiilllll Dev and his apprentice Darth Adminius.

-----------------
ADDENDUM:

Evidence that suggests even the Dark Side has limitations...

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Hidden Message In This Episode:

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Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 10, 2012, 07:57:58 pm

After page 1 most of the posts were spam.  Along with your "satire" original post it's pretty obvious why they moved it.

That being said, the 2h mace was the best 1 slot weapon for an archer or crossbow, hands down.  Slowing it down slightly doesn't change that it's still the best 1 slot weapon out there all things considered (not to mention the biggest reason, you have 2h WPF so you can potentially pick up some really nice 2h weapons on the battle field when you get into the thick of it).

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 10, 2012, 08:01:42 pm

And the fact that my mode of discussion was not boring does not take away from the fact that it was a legitimate thread that did discuss the issue.

People are just not getting it.  That weapon wasn't broken nor did it break the game.  The only reason to "fix" it was some philosophy of internal balance that everything as to be similar.  It wasn't that you could get 40 kills with it in 6 rounds EVEN if you had a lvl 34 character and specked dedicated 2 hander.  But hey, lets "kill the fun and ruin many builds even tho they never ruled the scoreboards, all in the name of internal balance." Still no better arguments than that I guess...  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 10, 2012, 08:30:18 pm

I generally agree with you, and disagree with nerfing items.  Items are supposed to have pro's and con's.  I'm against the nerf of the 2h mace (now that they've made their bed, they should lie in it), nerfs make people re-adjust their whole characters and equipment, and that's ridiculous.  Let people get used to the weapons and equipment and difficulty requirements. 

That being said, when they were doing "slots" for weapons, they should have left the 2h mace stats alone, but made it 2 slots.

The pro's for the mace are blunt, speed, and it's THE ONLY 2h that is 1 slot, meaning when you're in a pinch you can pick up a very nice 2h'ed/2slot weapon and dominate.  .  Con's are that it's short. 

I don't think the nerf is that bad, but to be consistent in my views, I don't think they should have nerfed it.  It's still a very nice weapon based on the current stats.

You satire OP was basically spam.  If you want a serious discussion, start the ball off right by saying the important points and keeping it short.  Your first post was a wall of text with maybe a couple of sentences of relevant information.  If you want a discussion on the 2h mace, make a thread about it.  Keep your points succinct and short, and don't dwell on the fact that they've moved your thread to spam, or else I'm assuming it will be locked again.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on February 10, 2012, 10:48:35 pm

Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on February 10, 2012, 08:30:18 pm

The pro's for the mace are blunt, speed, and it's THE ONLY 2h that is 1 slot, meaning when you're in a pinch you can pick up a very nice 2h'ed/2slot weapon and dominate.

Why do you keep saying that, over and over?  Why don't i just spec polearm, walk around with a shortened spear, and "pick up a very nice polearm/2slot weapon and dominate"?

This part of your arguement is just silly and I don't see where you're going with it.  Your statement basically says that the 2h mace is not OP and you can find way better 2h weapons on the ground.  So you're implying that "You better be careful with being able to spec into any weapon style you want as an archer, there could be weapons laying on the ground or something, and thats OP!  Why don't we restrict all classes to EXACTLY what 1 person thinks they should be and have.  Then we can all be the same and give them the exact same armor while you're at it!"

That's not why we play this game.  One of the reasons its so addicting is because there are so many possibilities, lets not restrict the game to the point where nobody wants to play it anymore...  I agree with balancing game items, but I don't agree with limiting player's playstyles.

Hell the 1h steel pick is better than 99% of the weapons out there...  Better nerf that, and the next one, and the next one, ok now whats next?

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 10, 2012, 11:05:59 pm

What's silly about it?  You have the 2h that's taking up 1 slot.  This benefits you because you can now carry 3 other slots (bow and 2 arrows, lighter xbow and 2 bolts) and have a 2h weapon.  If you get into a situation where you're outnumbered 5 to 1 at the end of the round which may require you to go melee vs all the enemies you can then pick up a 2slot 2h weapon.  Also by this time you may not even have 2 quivers of arrows so you can afford to now pickup a 2slot weapon. 

The alternative would be that you have a 1h WPF because most 1 slot melee weapons are 1h's.  I suppose as you say you could use a 1 slot polearm (didn't really realize they even had these).  But the 1 slot polearms don't even begin to compare to the 2h mace, and picking up a more powerful polearm isn't as useful as picking up a more powerful 2h'ed weapon.

Personally when they were choosing slots for weapons I think all 2h's and polearms should have been 2 slots minimum.  But now that they have decided what slots to give weapons, they should leave it, and they should not penalize the 2h mace because of their failures to plan.

You're getting too emotional and not thinking rationally or you would have come up with the same conclusion that I spelled out for you  (and you would have read that I'm against nerfs across the board).  I'm totally against nerfing equipment and weapons.  I don't think they should have nerfed the 2h mace, but I still think after the nerf it's the best option for an archer or crossbowman. 

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 10, 2012, 11:35:53 pm

And hence my satire...

Everything that is offered rationally is responded to with dismissal and attributions of emotionalism.

You did not listen to Silver's points at all.  No.  You didn't, only enough to "refute them".

It all gets back to a silly philosophy of "balance" in the game.  It is one thing if it totally ruins the game and no one else can possibly play anythign else.  But the mace was NOWHERE near that in any fashion.  Even tho it was really good, you still saw people using OTHER items!  Yes you did!  You guys act like it was the ONLY item ever used by ranged or hybrids.  Such responses are rediculous and deserve to be mocked, because you forget the fundamental attraction to games is their FUN.

When I first started playing cRpg they kept the high levels option open... and people played with level 40+ characters.  i was dumbfounded.  I was Exceedingly looking forward to that, since it is rare that such an open ended "disparity" exists in a game ESPECIALLY a free (as far as multiplayer goes) game.  Of course long before I ever got there they removed that.  (And as far as that "dispairity" existed, everyone could eventually get there too... so it was still quit fair.)

When exciting content is displaced in the name of opinionated gobbledygook about balancing numbers... then something is woefully wrong.

And don't dismiss emotion in and of itself.  If people didn't get a kick an a thrill out of playing then they wouldn't play.  You included.  I guarantee that even YOU play for fun.  If the Eviiiiilllll Devs start hacking into items you have built your whole character around, eventually they will strike a nerve and you will realize they are losing touch with the players and becoming overly focused on stats and  numbers.

And if my posts are "too long winded" for you.  Tough.  Everyone is different.  At least I'm not droll and boring about it.  I have at least provoked some laughter (and other emotions, lol).  So... : P


Try a new reply other than th dried up prune of a thought that says it was overpowered and still just dandy now.  Clearly neither is precisely correct, else jokers and serious commentators like me and Silver wouldn't have identified differences in how it handles.

And no.  I'm not bothering with spellchecking aat this point.  Deal wit it.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: Silveredge on February 11, 2012, 12:15:36 am

Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on February 10, 2012, 11:05:59 pm

What's silly about it?  You have the 2h that's taking up 1 slot.  This benefits you because you can now carry 3 other slots (bow and 2 arrows, lighter xbow and 2 bolts) and have a 2h weapon.  If you get into a situation where you're outnumbered 5 to 1 at the end of the round which may require you to go melee vs all the enemies you can then pick up a 2slot 2h weapon.  Also by this time you may not even have 2 quivers of arrows so you can afford to now pickup a 2slot weapon.

Did you read my response?

Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on February 10, 2012, 11:05:59 pm

The alternative would be that you have a 1h WPF because most 1 slot melee weapons are 1h's.  I suppose as you say you could use a 1 slot polearm (didn't really realize they even had these).  But the 1 slot polearms don't even begin to compare to the 2h mace, and picking up a more powerful polearm isn't as useful as picking up a more powerful 2h'ed weapon.

Huh?  Not as useful?  I suppose Goretooth, LUBU, Noobie, and Rhaelys all spec'd into the wrong weapon category.  Apparently 2h is OP in your opinion and you're biased.

Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on February 10, 2012, 11:05:59 pm

You're getting too emotional and not thinking rationally or you would have come up with the same conclusion that I spelled out for you  (and you would have read that I'm against nerfs across the board).  I'm totally against nerfing equipment and weapons.  I don't think they should have nerfed the 2h mace, but I still think after the nerf it's the best option for an archer or crossbowman. 

Ok, I don't care if someone is arguing "on the same side" as me or not.  If they have a weak argument then I'm going to point it out.  I was done with "sides" when I finished school.  I realized that there is no cut and dry right and wrong.  That everyone and everything can be right or wrong in some way, why else would people disagree?  Just like in war, there is right on both sides.  Dont be sheep.

Anyway, we should stop posting here, nobody gives a damn about the Spam Forum Board.

Title: Re: "THE DEV MENACE" (A Satire On The 2H Mace Nerf).
Post by: seddrik on February 11, 2012, 03:23:35 am

Agreed Silv.  Admins did a fabulous job of killing an actual convo.