cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Leshma on January 22, 2012, 11:59:26 pm

Title: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 22, 2012, 11:59:26 pm
Please
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: justme on January 23, 2012, 12:19:35 am
Please

 with 3 months cooldown maybe?


but plsssss
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Kafein on January 23, 2012, 12:20:20 am
Why ?

We only got that once, and I don't even remember when.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Rhaelys on January 23, 2012, 12:22:03 am
We got it once because there was a complete overhaul of skill requirements and essentially the entire mod, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 23, 2012, 12:33:20 am
Why ?

Ranged was changed, big time.

Also, why not?
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Casimir on January 23, 2012, 12:44:08 am
Respec was before marketplace was introduced iirc, since then devs have said there will be no more respecs.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Christo on January 23, 2012, 12:45:24 am
Wasn't it when XP got re-calculated?

Hmm. I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 23, 2012, 12:49:41 am
Respec was before marketplace was introduced iirc, since then devs have said there will be no more respecs.

I know, that's why I'm asking them to reconsider it.

Nothing is written in stone, you know :)
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 23, 2012, 12:54:20 am
Wasn't it when XP got re-calculated?

Hmm. I'm not sure.

XP got re-calculated once, when upkeep patch was implemented. Marketplace was implemented 3 or 4 months later.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Cris on January 23, 2012, 12:55:54 am
It was when XP got recalculated along with Level changes, WPP change, riding requirement change, riding chanced to 1 every 3 agility.

So i dont think 1 change will get us free respects again :P
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 23, 2012, 12:57:27 am
It was when XP got recalculated along with Level changes, WPP change, riding requirement change, riding chanced to 1 every 3 agility.

So i dont think 1 change will get us free respects again :P

No it was after that, you're talking about upkeep patch.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 23, 2012, 02:25:09 am
Please

Cav did not when the horses were all messed up, so I'm guessing
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Joker86 on January 23, 2012, 02:27:06 am
I would like to see a free respec, too.

I mean: it would help the developers to see faster how things will develop. How many players will drop their archer, how many players share my opinion that cav will be the next FotM-class, and how many players will counter this by choosing pikeman or hoplite, and finally how many players will be encouraged by the lowered ranged damage to drop their shield and go 2hd/halberd.

I don't see any disadvantage or bad side effect.  :?
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Thomek on January 23, 2012, 03:38:58 am
Wut about all those lvl 34s further optimizing their builds?

IDK.. I'm at 42 million xp, will never retire again, but at some point I might get bored with him who knows..

What about free respec three times a year? :) I know we dug that XP hole ourselves, but if such a change would produce some crazy lvl 35 one day.. well the man deserved it. I don't think it would chase away that many newbs. Yes it was crazy when some of us was lvl 40, but 31-34 to differ between casual and old-timers ain't that big a deal.

I was previously against free respecs, but hey, we have old timers are probably a large part of the playerbase. At least the most active ones. Besides, patch changes do happen and some people might want to fix themselves.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Overdriven on January 23, 2012, 03:44:00 am
I'm pretty sure the devs wrote this one in stone.

Probably somewhere on this:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 23, 2012, 03:57:51 am
Wut about all those lvl 34s further optimizing their builds?

I don't have faith for us tbh, they never did it before, and why would they if "archery is fine?"
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Torben on January 23, 2012, 04:07:17 am
than people that already respecced would bitch about wanting their xp back.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Uumdi on January 23, 2012, 04:39:34 am
Once a season even.  I've always retired to help people loom stuff / vice versa, but I say to those 32-34's you fuckin earned it.

Also, not trying to be rude, but the ranged nerf is outrageous.  I know native archery is one extreme, but this is the polar opposite extreme.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: San on January 23, 2012, 07:23:09 am
I think it would be too much to be able to respec for free on my level 33 character,  but half exp is a huge sacrifice and commitment. On the other hand, you really only lose 1 level or so at that point.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: EyeBeat on January 23, 2012, 07:51:23 am
People that are leveling past 31 should not be given any respecs.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Gnjus on January 23, 2012, 08:38:56 am
So i dont think 1 change will get us free respects again :P

Nothing will get us free respects from the devs ever again.  :wink:
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: bredeus on January 23, 2012, 08:47:24 am
shhh Gnjus someone is watching you
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Nessaj on January 23, 2012, 08:56:28 am
That the Respec cost is 50% no matter what level you are is a bug in my opinion, given that leveling scale drastically past 31 then the respec cost should scale accordingly.

I'm not for that 31+ should be able to respec all the time, not at all, nor get free respecs. However, a respec for gold (expensive) wouldn't be a bad thing, could help the economy as well.

For me, not retiring means getting off the hamster wheel, you don't have to grind, you don't care about heirlooms because you won't get any until after a year of grinding gold, all you have to do is log-on and play when you feel like it. Perfect. I don't like having the need to play up my character 24/7 in order to be ready for events and what not, or just to be able to play properly.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Fartface on January 23, 2012, 10:05:16 am
I like to look at the penguins at the zoo.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Vibe on January 23, 2012, 10:12:49 am
Just change the respec option from 50% to -2 or -4mil xp.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: _Tak_ on January 23, 2012, 10:16:30 am
Just change the respec option from 50% to -2 or -4mil xp.

+1 , losing half of exp is too crazy
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 23, 2012, 10:23:54 am
Just change the respec option from 50% to -2 or -4mil xp.
but what if you missclick at lvl 27?
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: okiN on January 23, 2012, 10:24:48 am
Just change the respec option from 50% to -2 or -4mil xp.

Bull. That would suck ass, screw the high-level guys. They don't need respec.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Vibe on January 23, 2012, 10:43:50 am
Bull. That would suck ass, screw the high-level guys. They don't need respec.

Dunno, it probably sucks losing so much grind time if you're high level and you want to tweak your build a bit.

but what if you missclick at lvl 27?

Pre 31 could be 50%, after 31 losing 2/4 mil xp.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Arrowblood on January 23, 2012, 10:49:47 am
+1 respecting from high lvls is just frustrating i respected  twice from lvl30,5 and 5 times from25-29  its awful to waste the xp by  rage.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Getheme on January 23, 2012, 10:55:19 am
I've never hit 32 and I always plan my builds a few levels beyond that just in case, so it hardly concerns me, but I think it's not so unsensible as it might first sound to let players respec within a certain xp bracket around level 32, 33 etcetera.

Those players are forfeiting equipment stats for character stats and each upgrade is increasingly further away, while for retiring players, each upgrade is increasingly closer, thanks to the xp bonus to higher generations. Retiring players would still get to change their spec more often than non-retiring players, even if it was presented just like that, but strap a high fee on (maybe it reduces an heirloomed item by 1 point to respec, maybe you can't use more than 5k equipment for a week beforehand) and it could be more acceptable to the retiring masses.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Kafein on January 23, 2012, 10:56:15 am
People that are leveling past 31 should not be given any respecs.

This. The same that complain about heirloom prices want their way to become even more a nobrainer. Choosing to go high level gives much more power on the battlefield than the equivalent in heirlooms, but you sacrifice flexibility for that power. Working as intended without free respecs.

Afaik, cav never got any free respec when the horse riding requirements were all fucked up. As people have mentioned, the only free respec we had was a few months after the upkeep patch, what I would call the retirement nerf patch, when total XP was recalculated retroactively to account for a reduced and capped XP bonus. Kesh was like gen 91 at that time and I think postupkeep generations were roughly divided by 3.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: _Tak_ on January 23, 2012, 11:53:21 am
Kesh was like gen 91 at that time and I think postupkeep generations were roughly divided by 3.

Is Kesh still playing in CRPG with gen 91? Does he still exist? Great History you mention there Kafein :D
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Rhaelys on January 23, 2012, 11:56:42 am
Bull. That would suck ass, screw the high-level guys. They don't need respec.

This, and I'm one of those high-level guys. I've respecced from mid-33 to 32, and from high 32 to high 31 (back to quarter-32 now). It's quite fine, honestly. If I weren't so spazzy about my build and weapon, I would probably be nearing 34 by now, but that's the price I've chosen to pay.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Cepeshi on January 23, 2012, 12:38:26 pm
Imho losing fixed amount of XP after lvl 31 is retarded idea. Just make them lose 1/3 of XP if they want to respec so much after lvl 31.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 23, 2012, 01:06:02 pm
We got it once because there was a complete overhaul of skill requirements and essentially the entire mod, if I recall correctly.

what ?
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: mOus333 on January 23, 2012, 01:13:18 pm
Only a stupid will reespec, we ranged are perfectly balanced now. Become arba user TODAY !!!  :twisted:
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Scrambles720 on January 23, 2012, 04:56:11 pm
If they do give a free respec at least limit it by level like they did with the sacrifice thing. so maybe only a free respec under level 25 only if you messed up your build. Also make it only once a gen.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 23, 2012, 04:58:45 pm
I'm not talking about that kind of free respec. I'm asking for global free respec because 40% of people got heavily nerfed by last patch. It's a one time thing, just like the previous time.

It's not a feature, it's a gift from gods of crpg (chadz, cmpx).

Edit: About cav nerf...

First thing, you guys are only 20% of the community. Second, even though that nerf was kinda shocking, you adapted pretty fast and basically didn't lose much. You were and will always be the strongest class in this game, no doubt about that.

Ranged folks will have hard time adapting to this change and truth to be told most of them never were game changers like cavs are.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Boerenlater on January 23, 2012, 06:40:45 pm
I say let the ones that were hit the most by the nerf patch just get as fast as they can go to 31 and retire. No free respec.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: kinngrimm on January 23, 2012, 07:04:06 pm
i am not sure about a character respec, but i am all for a loom respec.

And if you argue, yeah but the market system will take care ... bullshit. There are like 100 Awlpikes to be sold and nearly equally as many warspears are wanted. Those who have already a loomed warspear will most likely not sell it and whoever now takes Awlpikes is just a gambler who hopes about a change in Awlpikes.

So basicly people sit on their now crapy Awlpike, which they don't want to use anymore.
And i bet there are other weapons with the same problems, perhaps not even from the latest patches but those over the last months.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Gristle on January 23, 2012, 07:11:28 pm
Giving everyone a free switch to a melee or cav build does not fix the issue. Removing the nerf is what needs to happen.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Rhaelys on January 23, 2012, 07:34:39 pm
what ?

XP got re-calculated once, when upkeep patch was implemented. Marketplace was implemented 3 or 4 months later.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Gurnisson on January 23, 2012, 07:43:12 pm
i am not sure about a character respec, but i am all for a loom respec.

And if you argue, yeah but the market system will take care ... bullshit. There are like 100 Awlpikes to be sold and nearly equally as many warspears are wanted. Those who have already a loomed warspear will most likely not sell it and whoever now takes Awlpikes is just a gambler who hopes about a change in Awlpikes.

So basicly people sit on their now crapy Awlpike, which they don't want to use anymore.
And i bet there are other weapons with the same problems, perhaps not even from the latest patches but those over the last months.

Awlpikes are a great weapon still, just not for hoplites anymore. You should be able to sell/trade it pretty easily.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Osiris on January 23, 2012, 07:46:14 pm
yeah i 1/2 shot people with my mw awlpike all the time its damn awesome
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Kafein on January 23, 2012, 07:55:27 pm
I'm not talking about that kind of free respec. I'm asking for global free respec because 40% of people got heavily nerfed by last patch. It's a one time thing, just like the previous time.

It's not a feature, it's a gift from gods of crpg (chadz, cmpx).

Edit: About cav nerf...

First thing, you guys are only 20% of the community. Second, even though that nerf was kinda shocking, you adapted pretty fast and basically didn't lose much. You were and will always be the strongest class in this game, no doubt about that.

Ranged folks will have hard time adapting to this change and truth to be told most of them never were game changers like cavs are.

If cav adapted "pretty fast" I don't see any reason for others not to do exactly the same.

i am not sure about a character respec, but i am all for a loom respec.

And if you argue, yeah but the market system will take care ... bullshit. There are like 100 Awlpikes to be sold and nearly equally as many warspears are wanted. Those who have already a loomed warspear will most likely not sell it and whoever now takes Awlpikes is just a gambler who hopes about a change in Awlpikes.

So basicly people sit on their now crapy Awlpike, which they don't want to use anymore.
And i bet there are other weapons with the same problems, perhaps not even from the latest patches but those over the last months.

I completely agree. The market is, like it's name should point out, a market. If information was complete (and we aren't so far from that), then we would sell and buy heirlooms for their exact value. And nerfs change that value. With or without the marketplace, a nerf still means your weapon is worth less. It only translates into a lesser price on the market.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 23, 2012, 09:05:46 pm
If cav adapted "pretty fast" I don't see any reason for others not to do exactly the same.

Cavalry were pretty damn strong before that nerf. Ranged were strong but mainly in groups and they had unfair advantage over others (roof camping). Single pro archer could kill a lot but that wasn't even near to what pro cav can do. And for cavalry you don't have to be pro, you just need to hunt unaware people.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Penitent on January 23, 2012, 09:10:45 pm
There have been buffs and nerfs all throughout the history of crpg, but none like this...either for cav, inf, or ranged.

Imagine you are a cav, or an inf...and you damage is instantly reduced to -33%, except headshots...and the other classes were left as is.    For real, imagine it!  I play cav and inf, and it would completely change the game for me.  I'd have to be a "head hunter" and I'll probably play Rageball only or just quit.  It would not be fun!

That's what ranged players are dealing with.  It's a totally undeserved and unprecedented nerf.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: SquishMitten on January 23, 2012, 09:27:30 pm
There have been buffs and nerfs all throughout the history of crpg, but none like this...either for cav, inf, or ranged.

Imagine you are a cav, or an inf...and you damage is instantly reduced to -33%, except headshots...and the other classes were left as is.    For real, imagine it!  I play cav and inf, and it would completely change the game for me.  I'd have to be a "head hunter" and I'll probably play Rageball only or just quit.  It would not be fun!

That's what ranged players are dealing with.  It's a totally undeserved and unprecedented nerf.

I'd just hit people one more time
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Kafein on January 23, 2012, 09:56:50 pm
There have been buffs and nerfs all throughout the history of crpg, but none like this...either for cav, inf, or ranged.

Imagine you are a cav, or an inf...and you damage is instantly reduced to -33%, except headshots...and the other classes were left as is.    For real, imagine it!  I play cav and inf, and it would completely change the game for me.  I'd have to be a "head hunter" and I'll probably play Rageball only or just quit.  It would not be fun!

That's what ranged players are dealing with.  It's a totally undeserved and unprecedented nerf.

Then I would probably make all the possible efforts and learn to aim for the head constantly. It isn't that difficult in melee, especially with a 1h.

Cavalry were pretty damn strong before that nerf. Ranged were strong but mainly in groups and they had unfair advantage over others (roof camping). Single pro archer could kill a lot but that wasn't even near to what pro cav can do. And for cavalry you don't have to be pro, you just need to hunt unaware people.

For cav, part of being pro is that, hunting unaware people. Since cav is more heavy than other classes in autobalance due to high equipment value, we have to do more killing than footmen to be equally effective for our team. And I'm not even counting the fact that out of all the people cavalry kills, there are way more noob victims than actually valuable players, because those have developped their awareness. This isn't the case for infantry, and even less for ranged (ever noticed how many good players go on rampage then die to ranged ?). Cav don't choose their kills, they go for the opportunities.

Furthermore, there's a reason why the pro cav end up with average 4/1 ratioes and bad ones with average 1/2 or worse, and it is the same for all the classes : skill. However, cav skill isn't comparable to melee skill or ranged skill. Cav is mainly about timing/anticipation, planning, game reading and awareness. If your definition of skill is limited to twitch reflexes or accuracy, then cav is not very skillful.

It is weirdly a much "slower" type of gameplay because events happen without being really connected with each other. During a match, a good cav will interact with a much greater part of the enemy team than any other player, but all these interactions will be extremely short and completely unrelated (although probably very intense, resulting in the death of one player in case he fails). Unlike a melee fight where everything is a consequence of earlier events. The main difference is that due to the speed of the horse (and the horseback attacks) and the lack of maneuver, you need a lot of time to correct your errors, so when you take a decision, you must anticipate everything that will happen in a rather large time window after the moment you took that decision, because you'll have no way of changing it.

Different skillset, that is all, none is really superior to any other IMO. If melee fighters all had the same weapon, couldn't block and had to start their attack nearly one second before the impact, those with the best timing would dominate and would indeed be the most skilled.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Leshma on January 23, 2012, 10:07:21 pm
Furthermore, there's a reason why the pro cav end up with average 4/1 ratioes and bad ones with average 1/2 or worse, and it is the same for all the classes : skill.

These days, pro cav end up with 10:1 and bad ones usually have 2:1 or higher k/d...
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Kafein on January 23, 2012, 11:53:31 pm
These days, pro cav end up with 10:1 and bad ones usually have 2:1 or higher k/d...

Unless they die due to another cav getting in their way lol

Just tried playing on EU_1 with 110 players, that wasn't great. Mostly due to lags and the amount of other cav. It's ok when we don't attack simultaneously but otherwise it often ends up badly. Also, sneaking behind the enemy lines is a lot harder than before due to many enemy cav guarding their team blob. Evading cav vs cav encounters is generally harder too, which sorts of make things a little bit easier for inf I guess.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 24, 2012, 02:04:23 am
We got it once because there was a complete overhaul of skill requirements and essentially the entire mod, if I recall correctly.

They've made some pretty serious changes in the last year in regards to requirements (for equipment, not skills).  They should probably have given free respecs then too. 

I don't see the benefit of free respecs.  I like that you have to plan out your build, and if you fuck up, you deal with it, or respec.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Zaren on January 24, 2012, 02:11:23 am
They've made some pretty serious changes in the last year in regards to requirements (for equipment, not skills).  They should probably have given free respecs then too. 

I don't see the benefit of free respecs.  I like that you have to plan out your build, and if you fuck up, you deal with it, or respec.
this or make an option that you can get a no XP cost respec but you have to pay money(lets say 200k? people at level 33 or 34 should have that)
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Camaris on January 24, 2012, 11:25:44 am
I´d rather have an option to salvage my heirlooms for 150-200k gold for each x3 heirloom.
If you got stuff really nobody wants to buy/trade you finally would have an option that´s not as good as
market but at least an option.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on January 24, 2012, 04:35:51 pm
I´d rather have an option to salvage my heirlooms for 150-200k gold for each x3 heirloom.
If you got stuff really nobody wants to buy/trade you finally would have an option that´s not as good as
market but at least an option.

I bet if you put said +3-item on the market right now, regardless of what it is, for 600k its gone faster than you can say "shmuzzlefucks".
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Dezilagel on January 24, 2012, 05:14:25 pm
Yep, cav situation is really getting out of hand (unsurprisingly)

Did people have some wet dreams about playing a backstabbing lancer or what? Or did all the arcchers just respec?

This was the most extreme case I found today, looking at the top ten players on the killboard: (Code: Green = cav Red = Not cav Yellow = unsure)

(click to show/hide)

Unsurprisingly as said, but they really need to take a look at the situation imho.

But as always: Rather cav than archers.

EDIT: Yes I know the scoreboard doesn't tell eveything, but when the top 10 cav on one team amass like 200 kills then they are making a stellar impact.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Gurnisson on January 24, 2012, 05:34:32 pm
Dezilagel, Noobishy_Nooby_Noob is cav too. Shitty 5 ps 5 riding cav with regular rouncey at level 27 to be exact. :wink:
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Toodles on January 24, 2012, 05:41:26 pm
Dammit Dezilagel! I was two positions away from being red right there.

It's not so much the abundance of cavalry that worries me, but rather the lack of infantry / archer centric maps. I don't know it's name, but one of them has it all - a large town with high walls on all sides right in the middle of a desert, that one there is always a blast and good fun for all classes I'm sure.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Herkkutatti on January 24, 2012, 05:49:58 pm
No.
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Harpag on January 24, 2012, 06:10:58 pm
(Code: Green = cav Red = Not cav Yellow = unsure)

(click to show/hide)


Hehe - look at timer  - 3:31 left and everyone dead. Brainless charge and nothing more. Sorry  :lol:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: Dezilagel on January 24, 2012, 07:24:59 pm
Dezilagel, Noobishy_Nooby_Noob is cav too. Shitty 5 ps 5 riding cav with regular rouncey at level 27 to be exact. :wink:

What? That must mean...

Ab00ze! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Or...

HAX! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Give us free respec
Post by: kinngrimm on January 24, 2012, 08:04:48 pm
Awlpikes are a great weapon still, just not for hoplites anymore. You should be able to sell/trade it pretty easily.
well then please introduce a good hoplite weapon, deosnt need to have that much damage as awlpike, doesn't need to be that fast but it needs to be long 160+, going with shield AND sheatable. I think that is a reasonable request and also would give cav a little bit more to think about.