cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Darven_nathaniel on February 24, 2011, 08:13:22 pm
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So im almost to my first lvl 31 and I built 18/18 str agi balanced 1h shield build...and I get destroyed every time. I don't know what im doing wrong. My guy swings like molasses and I can only take 1-2 hits in TRANSITIONAL. mostly due to 2h spam. Is shield build even viable anymore?
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So im almost to my first lvl 31 and I built 18/18 str agi balanced 1h shield build...and I get destroyed every time. I don't know what im doing wrong. My guy swings like molasses and I can only take 1-2 hits in TRANSITIONAL. mostly due to 2h spam. Is shield build even viable anymore?
I am pretty sure this is your problem.
Heavier armor on shielders is not very good, as it slows you down to the molasses you are describing. Your shield should be the heavy armor you need, y'know?
Also, are you carrying more than one shield? other heavy things? What is your shield skill, wpf, etc?
Are you waiting to hear the sound of their weapon hitting your shield or are you getting hit by feints, etc?
What shield/weapon are you using? There are a lot of questions here as to what you may be (or are) doing wrong. We need more info than this to help you. 18/18 is a really solid shielder build in general so I am interested on the specifics.
Side note edit: 2h has a slight advantage over shielders generally in a fight due to weapon length and damage. But that is OK since you are fine vs ranged weapons and they are weak to them. If you play solidly you can beat any 2hander, although you may need some coaching and tips in game from some good shielders. DO you play EU or NA?
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1 handers are very viable, I usually get 3 or 4 kills for every death in battle or siege server with my 1 hander. 2 handers and polearm guys have become my favorite people to fight.
What is probably happening is that you do not know how the melee dynamics work in the game and are thus getting caught by people who do know how they work.
You might want read the my posts in this thread http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1545.0.html . My posts in that thread will teach you how the dynamics of melee work and if you understand them you will know were you are making most of your mistakes.
P.S Please post your character build
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I am pretty sure this is your problem.
Heavier armor on shielders is not very good, as it slows you down to the molasses you are describing. Your shield should be the heavy armor you need, y'know?
Also, are you carrying more than one shield? other heavy things? What is your shield skill, wpf, etc?
Are you waiting to hear the sound of their weapon hitting your shield or are you getting hit by feints, etc?
What shield/weapon are you using? There are a lot of questions here as to what you may be (or are) doing wrong. We need more info than this to help you.
my 1h wpf is 142 ish. I'm carrying three weapons for situation purposes. Nordic champ sword for 2h spammers, iron war ax for shielders, and warhammer for other heavily armored units. my shield is a huscarls shield as it seemed like the best choice. Fients tend to destroy me because im a newer player but its just frusterating getting killed in 2 hits because armor is suppose to do something right?
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Also I play on both. I got a very solid connection so I just sort of roam around the servers where ever.
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18/18 build is fine so is 142 wpf, your weapon load is pretty much what I carry. Otherwise this means that you must be making mistakes because you do not know how the dynamics of melee work in this game. Read my posts in that thread, the last post in that thread will alone help you a ton.
Cheers,
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18/18 build is fine so is 142 wpf, your weapon load is pretty much what I carry. You should also be using a huscarl shield, if you are not you should look into it. Otherwise this means that you must be making mistakes because you do not know how the dynamics of melee work in this game. Read my posts in that thread, the last post in that thread will alone help you a ton.
Cheers,
I did they were very helpful. Just still feels like I swing...so....slow...
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This build is IMO better, tho you wont use warhammer.
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 12
Agility: 24
Hit points: 49
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 4
Shield: 8
Athletics: 8
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 173
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
And if you like extreme agi builds, try this:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 9
Agility: 27
Hit points: 44
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 9
Athletics: 9
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 173
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
Im using second build with Niuweidao and Broad Battle axe (the best 1h axe, forgot what is the exact name) for other shielders with Steel Shield, and believe me or not, im not bouncing off all the time and my shield can carry about 100 hits from regular melee char with weapon that doesnt have "bonus against shield". Tested it today with NOT COMPLETED build YET. (8 shield atm)
Of course, if you would use Huscarl, you would do good, too.
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im a sword and boarder
my end build will look like this 24/15 8ps, 4 shield, 5ath, 5 wm. about 148 wpf in one hander.
Gear: 2x heirloomed elite scim, knightly heatershield, heraldic mail, leather boots, barrute helm, and a spear for taking out cav.
i'm level 27 right now and about 100 kills over deaths so i do okay.
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I did they were very helpful. Just still feels like I swing...so....slow...
I don't believe that the problem you are having is speed, I have a wpf of 133 wpf and athletics of 4. Which very likely makes me even slower then you. You must be making timing mistakes while fighting. The only way to fix that is knowledge of how melee works and practice.
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Try using lighter armor, like tunic over mail or comparable light armor.
Your weapon loadout is OK as it is the jack-of-all-trades approach. I personally don't do that, but that is just my own preference.
I highly suggest you play on whatever servers you have the lowest ping to, be it NA or EU, and duel quite a bit. There are certain timings that you can only learn through playing. If you can get together with a competent shielder, they generally will teach you as most people are nice and were taught partially by other people themselves.
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Try using lighter armor, like tunic over mail or comparable light armor.
Your weapon loadout is OK as it is the jack-of-all-trades approach. I personally don't do that, but that is just my own preference.
I highly suggest you play on whatever servers you have the lowest ping to, be it NA or EU, and duel quite a bit. There are certain timings that you can only learn through playing. If you can get together with a competent shielder, they generally will teach you as most people are nice and were taught partially by other people themselves.
so i bought the heraldric mail w/ surcoat and i'm seeing sort of a difference. Is this a good choice? Or should I go lighter?
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so i bought the heraldric mail w/ surcoat and i'm seeing sort of a difference. Is this a good choice? Or should I go lighter?
i have seen my best results with the heraldic mail.
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im doing 15str, 21 agj build with 5 power strike, 7shield(yes 7, so you can attack and block faster) 7athletics(faster step in for attacking) and 7 weapon master(doing Hybrid with xbow) with about 120wpf in one hand. im doing fine with this build.
Tried 18str /18agj 2 gen. before, i lost speed wise and still needed 2-3 hits to kill someone, dont see a reason to go further than 15 str with one hand.
armour: take heraldic mail, mail chausses(or something similar) and a good helmet (Klappvisiar, Guard Helmet, Sallet...) and some gloves you can afford, you still earn a little money, well you earn more than you loose. :mrgreen:
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So im almost to my first lvl 31 and I built 18/18 str agi balanced 1h shield build...and I get destroyed every time. I don't know what im doing wrong. My guy swings like molasses and I can only take 1-2 hits in TRANSITIONAL. mostly due to 2h spam. Is shield build even viable anymore?
Yes.
18/18 is a good build. I use it (granted, I'm a horseman/horse crossbow/crossbow/1h/shield hybrid, so less effective then pure 1h), and it's quite good.
The thing is, with a 1h, it's extremely important to fight "correctly", which starts with two things:
1) swing immediately after someone hits your shield IF you want to swing (sometimes it's not a good idea to, you don't have to counterattack every time)
2) it's vital to use the correct swing - if someone is at your left, you must left swing or he can hit you, if he's on your right you must right swing or he can hit you. but your right swing is slower then your left swing, so be mindful of that
3) It's vital to be in range, if you're not sure you are in range or the opponent is backpedalling, don't swing! backpedal yourself, let him follow you instead of chasing after a backpedaller
Some generic stuff:
- don't fall to feints. If you didnt hear the thud on the shield, it didn't hit it, it was a feint.
- you have an opening if someone is advancing at you with a chambered (prepared) swing on the wrong side, for instance if he is coming from your left and has a right swing prepared (weapon is left, he is left from your point of view), you start a left swing and move to his right side, your swing is faster. People with chambered overheads you can get sometimes, too. Chambered 2h stabs, though, don't try, they're too fast.
- turn into your swings to make them hit faster. But if you turn too fast... it might bounce. Also be wary of people doing this to you. This technique can be used to spam mauls sometimes.
- if you see a really good blocker... then you're in trouble, unless you have some absurdly fast lolweapon like a sidesword
- Don't fall for range tricks. Two common ones:
(a) when your opponent launches a swing while out of range and you move forward and try to counterattack, only to be slashed and killed by his next swing. The trick? After a unsuccessful swing you don't get the "stun" like you do when it gets blocked and hence can swing again immediately. Wait to be solidly in range.
(b) when your opponent launches a swing in his range but out of yours and you move and try to counterattack, only to be slashed and killed by his next swing. The trick? If you don't attack immediately after blocking, which you can't because you're out of range, his "stun" after blocked swing is gone now and he can swing again. Wait to be solidly in range.
Also, personally, I liked the 21/15 build the most (with 7 PS) so my surprise hits would often kill when they hit the head. Also, I dislike agispammers on principle ;P
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What people like Formless dont understand, due to their lack of intelligence, is that this game is not played under "fair" circumstances.
When you play with a bad internet connection and on top of that with an old computer, its obvious that others with good internet and computer swing faster.
Nathaniel the first thing you should check is if this is the problem.
Do the following. Go to native Singleplayer, normal speed, AI on good (AI on good is better than most crpg players) and report how you are doing. When the AI can outspam you, well, then your are too slow, and others are better, what means you have to practice when you want to do better in multiplayer.
In this test is important that you dont circle around, dance and spam, force yourself to parry, strike, parry, strike.
Are you fast enough to strike back, or does the AI swing faster than you could strike?
When you can win against the AI even on fastest speed, then its your internet, not your lack on skill.
When you lose against AI, then you have to practice more. =)
As I wrote in another topic, crpg privileges authistic 2h/polearm spammers. Only awlpike/battlefork tards can spam easier than they can.
I know that. When I can play without delay, I dont lose in native with shield against 2h/polearms very often. When and if I lose, its because the other guy chambers me, be it skill, or just luck, doesnt matter.
1hshielder in crpg is a lot harder than in native, but it is not impossible.
Try what I said.
If its your internet, do like everyone else with the same problem: get the bigger stick, and spam back!
On builds, 18/18 is fine, but I am with Bruce and other successfull shielders, 21 str 7 ps is best, cos you can 1 shot many with a swing to the head.
High agi can compensate a shitty internet a bit, but its still shitty. So polearmspammer, 2hstabber, would be your way then.
So less than 18 str for a 1h is like 1 power draw for a bowman: funny, you will get tons of hits, but kills, no, not really.
Sounds weird, but str is for a 1h more important than for a 2h in crpg.
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I run 21/15, with 7 IF instead of converting and 146 wpf. The next build will either be 27/12 or a nutty agi build.
It all comes down to what you want to accomplish. I am trying to do everything at once, hence the IF and it's far from ideal.
If you wish to flank the enemy and make them peel off half a dozen guys to chase you as your team moves in for the kill, you definately want to focus on agility and a high shield skill.
If you want, for instance, to dash in at a 2her and slice at the head with a sarranid cavalry sword, you can make it work with a balanced build or even agi 15.
And if you want to be a one-shotter that focuses on sneaky stabs and whatnot, 27 str and 9ps can hardly go wrong.
Just don't be a run of the mill shielder who goes "block - swing - block - swing" until someone gets tired, gives them a kick and stabs them to death. Think about what you want to do and or what your current build can do, then practice that.
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You should also look up the formula for overloading. I guess with 3 weapons + shield, you are overloaded, and thus slower than you could be. I don't remember the correct formula, but most builds can't carry more than around 20kg before being overloaded. I'd ditch two of the weapons. You can't have everything in this game, so decide whether you want a mace, axe or sword, and only bring this.
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I tried a 12-24 build but found that I glanced too much, although the extra agility was nice.
My most solid build so far has been an agility build. It ended up at about 1100:650 for kill's to deaths. I have been using a steel pick and sarranid guard armor.
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
* Strength: 15
* Agility: 21
* Hit points: 60
* Converted: 2
* Ironflesh: 5
* Power Strike: 5
* Shield: 5
* Athletics: 7
* Weapon Master: 7
* One Handed: 163
The weapon that you use should dictate what build you use. If you are using a longer weapon, you can afford to be a little slower by relying on the weapon range. For a short weapon, I think you will find yourself outmaneuvered if you have less agility.
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What people like Formless dont understand, due to their lack of intelligence, is that this game is not played under "fair" circumstances.
When you play with a bad internet connection and on top of that with an old computer, its obvious that others with good internet and computer swing faster.
You really did not read my initial explanation of how melee works very carefully, did you? In it I clearly said the following:
I noticed that this paradigm breaks down when there is a huge disparity between two opponents wpf, when there is considerable lag on the server. During high ping times. During high fps times. The better the computer and internet connection the better this paradigm will hold during those times. Sadly I since I am a broke student all the above happen to me regularly. :(
I don't why you are so angry :(
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You really did not read my initial explanation of how melee works very carefully, did you? In it I clearly said the following:
I don't why you are so angry :(
Easier to attack an arguement then read it in full, :(
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You can't attack faster with a better ping or faster computer, that's bullshit. But if you lag, the server might use an extrapolated position for you, although on your machine you may have evaded. Also, you will see wrong positions and animations of others, because you receive the packets too late.
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Do not let 2hers work around to thy back... Be aware of your flanks and stay aggressive! :)