cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thanatos on January 19, 2012, 07:50:07 pm

Title: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Thanatos on January 19, 2012, 07:50:07 pm
The problem with the CRPG system is that changes are more like trials and errors. One thing fixes a problem but causes another. Sometimes one class suffers and the other gets a major unnecessary boost shifting gameplay, irritating people who stick to one class.

I propose enacting a system where the people get to choose what changes they want based on the majority of votes.



Executive Branch
chadz - President (he has veto power to cancel out proposals)
Every Admin under chadz

Judicial Branch (supreme court)
Composed of veteran players like Kesh and Tears_Of_Destiny where these players get to decide if the changes proposed by the Houses are proper before requesting them to be implemented.

Legislative Branch (congress)
Composed of all CRPG players registered on the forums and divided into 3 houses and they come up with the changes.

House of EU - All European members. Must have one representative that requests features/changes for the rest.

House of NA - All North American members. Must have one representative that requests features/changes for the rest.

House of the minorities - Every other player like the Chinese or Australians. Must have one representative that requests features/changes for the rest.



The representatives of each houses must be high contactable either through Steam or the forum, preferably both and must be experienced, rational, and not a troll.


This way we can have more of what we want and less of what we don't want. Perhaps we can enjoy the game more and everyone can benefit more. Plus it is a good way to get the CRPG community together.


Start nominating representatives and judges of the supreme court.

Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Overdriven on January 19, 2012, 07:52:44 pm
*cough*
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Lech on January 19, 2012, 07:53:31 pm
Why the fuck you think that democracy is needed in cRPG ? Are you NA?
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Osiris on January 19, 2012, 07:54:22 pm
Majority of cRPG and admins are not American. we dont work like that so no :D The fact you want to put kesh into a decision making role about changes makes it double no
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Rikthor on January 19, 2012, 07:54:37 pm
You realize most of the devs are Euros right?
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 19, 2012, 07:58:27 pm
No game operates like this, at all, for a reason.

The Devs should make the game in their image (assuming that they have a mission goal), not the player base.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2012, 07:59:15 pm
No matter EU or NA, when it comes to private property there is no democracy?

Edit: Also if you happen to get permabanned in the future, you should know that playing c-rpg isn't your natural right (given by birth). It's a privilege given to you by it's owners and only way to keep that privilege is to play by their rules.

Smart folks usually figure that out by themselves...
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Winterly on January 19, 2012, 08:04:07 pm
US is doing so well isn't it? /sarcasm
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 19, 2012, 08:05:09 pm
US is doing so well isn't it? /sarcasm

With this logic, cRPG must follow the Chinese Government model.

Original Post needs to be updated!

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Meow on January 19, 2012, 08:06:53 pm
Almost as good as the guy who said no admins at all would work best :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Angantyr on January 19, 2012, 08:09:18 pm
 :shock:
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: BADPLAYERold on January 19, 2012, 08:09:25 pm
Composed of veteran players like Kesh and Tears_Of_Destiny where these players get to decide if the changes proposed by the Houses are proper before requesting them to be implemented.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2012, 08:10:25 pm
With this logic, cRPG must follow the Chinese Government model.

Original Post needs to be updated!

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Last time I've checked we're not living in the virtual State of chadzia (SoC), we're not the citizens of that state and don't have the benefits that come with citizenship. Something changed while I was on hiatus?
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Casimir on January 19, 2012, 08:11:57 pm
Ha
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2012, 08:14:44 pm
Come on americans, support the fellow kinsmen. If you won't do it, I will. Just for lulz :D
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Darkkarma on January 19, 2012, 08:17:57 pm


Judicial Branch (supreme court)
Composed of veteran players like Kesh and Tears_Of_Destiny where these players get to decide if the changes proposed by the Houses are proper before requesting them to be implemented.


trolled ever so softly.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 19, 2012, 08:25:19 pm
sorry, but this is really a terrible idea.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 19, 2012, 08:41:36 pm
I like your assessment of the c-rpg updating:  "The problem with the CRPG system is that changes are more like trials and errors. One thing fixes a problem but causes another. Sometimes one class suffers and the other gets a major unnecessary boost shifting gameplay, irritating people who stick to one class."

I totally disagree with the proposal.  If they just stopped nerfing and buffing shit and focused on the exploits, and bugs, the mod would not only continue to gain followers, but would retain the old veterans who helped keep the mod alive in the early days.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Jacko on January 19, 2012, 08:50:27 pm
Ahaha hahaha, we need this, NAOW!
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 08:55:20 pm
I seriously don't know what could come out of ToD and Kesh having official responsibilities in this mod.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Reinhardt on January 19, 2012, 08:59:22 pm
I seriously don't know what could come out of ToD and Kesh having official responsibilities in this mod.

Best not to dwell on it. You may come up with something, and it may haunt you.


By the way - I disapprove of this suggestion. Some sort of... better system of updates is in order, but not a democratic form of government for cRPG.
PS: I'm American. (Sorry, Leshma)
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 09:02:22 pm
Best not to dwell on it. You may come up with something, and it may haunt you.


By the way - I disapprove of this suggestion. Some sort of... better system of updates is in order, but not a democratic form of government for cRPG.
PS: I'm American. (Sorry, Leshma)

What about this ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarchy
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: MrShine on January 19, 2012, 09:06:15 pm
Fantastic idea, American political conventions are a solution to everything!
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 19, 2012, 09:11:53 pm
Judicial Branch (supreme court)
Composed of veteran players like Kesh and Tears_Of_Destiny where these players get to decide if the changes proposed by the Houses are proper before requesting them to be implemented.

I honestly missed this until BadPlayer pointed it out...

Why did I come to mind?
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on January 19, 2012, 09:14:36 pm
Do you support SOPA? Lets limit cRPG even further by putting people in charge like Kesh, good idea.....then lets put it further down by restricting it so its a democracy......

The dev team has a goal that they follow it, we play cRPG because we enjoy it no need to fuck the whole system up
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: PhantomZero on January 19, 2012, 09:29:05 pm
Why did I come to mind?

Because he is trolling.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Paul on January 19, 2012, 09:29:54 pm
No, we already have a working system for cRPG.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Wraist on January 19, 2012, 09:32:53 pm
Where's Paul on that diagram?
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Lansamur on January 19, 2012, 09:40:20 pm
Majority of cRPG and admins are not American. we dont work like that so no :D The fact you want to put kesh into a decision making role about changes makes it double no

/signed
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Jacko on January 19, 2012, 09:43:50 pm
That diagram is AMAZINGLY accurate.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Christo on January 19, 2012, 09:50:48 pm
This suggestion made me lol.

Seriously, it's so, so bad that I don't even want to list up the flaws.

Dev diagram made me lol even more, for how true it is. :D
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 19, 2012, 09:57:31 pm
more like

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


waits for the +1's to roll in.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Joker86 on January 19, 2012, 10:02:18 pm
Well, although I completely disagree with the suggestion, I don't think you should ridicule it that much, never mind how ridiculous it is (if you can say that on an objective base, at all).

Just point out that what the majority wants is not always the best, and in theory the class with the most players could nerf down all other classes to shit and then keep on dominating the servers.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 19, 2012, 10:05:35 pm
Well, although I completely disagree with the suggestion, I don't think you should ridicule it that much, never mind how ridiculous it is (if you can say that on an objective base, at all).

Just point out that what the majority wants is not always the best, and in theory the class with the most players could nerf down all other classes to shit and then keep on dominating the servers.

That's why majority rule isn't always a good system.  I'm not saying it would happen because most people have some morals and some compassion, but if everyone was ruthless and cut throat, technically a majority could just vote to take away the rights of the minority. 

I heard calls in the NA battle server yesterday that archers weren't nerfed enough, because the archers had the nerve to shoot people from 2 different angles at the same time.  Just because something may be a little "strong" doesn't mean it's unbalanced to the game play.  At what point do the devs say "well maybe it's just a lack of tactics on the players part, and not something wrong with this class or equipment"?  Apparently the answer is never.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Casimir on January 19, 2012, 10:05:52 pm
if you don't know who harald is, then your opinion is invalid.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Christo on January 19, 2012, 10:06:22 pm
Just point out that what the majority wants is not always the best, and in theory the class with the most players could nerf down all other classes to shit and then keep on dominating the servers.

Or, the house of EU is a lot bigger than the house of NA, and whenever a suggestion might pop up that's against EU for the better of NA for an example, get's downvoted to shit.
(This was only an example for a situation, don't start nitpicking over it.)

This happens in my country right now, that dumbass clown got in with like 75% politicians of his own and now abuses it like crazy, giving us a bad name in the EU. Sorry for offtopic, but I have an IRL example for this.

Also, giving someone decision making positions just because he did something, or is "veteran", is the dumbest idea I ever heard. Just because one is a veteran, seen more things, that doesn't automatically mean that he can do a particular role well.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 19, 2012, 10:10:39 pm
if you don't know who harald is, then your opinion is invalid.

So my assessment of nerf-rpg is incorrect?  Enlighten me exalted one.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Joker86 on January 19, 2012, 10:14:06 pm
I heard calls in the NA battle server yesterday that archers weren't nerfed enough, because the archers had the nerve to shoot people from 2 different angles at the same time.  Just because something may be a little "strong" doesn't mean it's unbalanced to the game play.  At what point do the devs say "well maybe it's just a lack of tactics on the players part, and not something wrong with this class or equipment"?  Apparently the answer is never.

You are probably right on this, but I don't think the developers could care less about it. Thomek created a topic which got a lot of attention, and still not a single developer posted anything, neither if they want to support tactics at all, nor how they would do this. I was simply ignored.

On a completely different matter, I would like to see some kind of "developer's blog" concerning the balance decsions. I would like to know which statistics they have, which "tools" they use (be it real tools like programs or just "methods" as tools) and especially: why and how they want to achieve certain things in cRPG. THAT would be really interesting.  :wink:
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Christo on January 19, 2012, 10:15:44 pm
So my assessment of nerf-rpg is incorrect?  Enlighten me.

chadz actually plays his mod, I remember fighting against him, and on my team as well.
Nowadays he might do it with secret alts, I don't know. So that's one wrong part.

Your opinion on Harald is funny. You know nothing about his work for the community, and fabricate something from your own thoughts.
FYI: He's taking care of the cRPG website.

Just some thoughts.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 19, 2012, 10:27:50 pm
chadz actually plays his mod, I remember fighting against him, and on my team as well.
Nowadays he might do it with secret alts, I don't know. So that's one wrong part.

Your opinion on Harald is funny. You know nothing about his work for the community, and fabricate something from your own thoughts.
FYI: He's taking care of the cRPG website.

Just some thoughts.

Well although I feel c-rpg nerfs way too much shit, and listens to the community way too much (i.e. "please nerf this") most of what I said was tongue in cheek.  I know sarcasm is lost on some people.  You really didn't get the joke when I said that he either doesn't play his own mod, or doesn't know what tactics are?  OBVIOUSLY he plays his own mod, so then I must be saying he has no idea what tactics are, and thinks that nerfs are the only way players will ever overcome a classes natural strengths....durrrr

And I didn't give an opinion of Harald...jesus no wonder this mod gets fucked over with every update with the intelligence on these forums.

It was supposed to be a funny, and still be somewhat thought provoking.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Christo on January 19, 2012, 10:29:31 pm
Well, you were the one who asked for correction.  :)

You've got it. :rolleyes:

And I didn't give an opinion of Harald...jesus no wonder this mod gets fucked over with every update with the intelligence on these forums.

Want me to quote from your own remake of the picture?
"Never heard of him, apparently he also likes nerf-rpg and the direction it's going."

If that's not a (quite biased) opinion about him from you, then what is it?  :wink:
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on January 19, 2012, 10:45:22 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Dezilagel on January 19, 2012, 10:50:44 pm
Yes of course we should do like this.

I mean, the American system has clearly proven to be WAY superior to everything else, especially in recent times.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Gnjus on January 19, 2012, 10:51:04 pm
I propose enacting a system where the people get to choose what changes they want based on the majority of votes.

Judicial Branch (supreme court)
Composed of veteran players like Kesh and Tears_Of_Destiny where these players get to decide if the changes proposed by the Houses are proper before requesting them to be implemented.

We had the Dusk of cRPG for 18 months and just now when the light began to shine you want us to go back into the darkness ? Just cover your head with pillow if you want dark but don't pest the rest of us with it.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 11:03:43 pm
Harald is mainly working on the website. The shiny new one is from him :D
Cmp is the one in charge of (chadz quote) "WSE witchcraft". And stealth balance changes.
Fasader is the lead unbalancer (but I think many people know this). However I doubt the existence of a "balance team" since I never heard of any particular name. If they exist, they are either extremely shy, or unable to use a forum.
And Meow is the only kind admin. He's assigned to returning lost heirlooms and doing shit for the players that can't use a website properly (that is, entering their password in every text block and clicking on all the buttons in every possible order).
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Nessaj on January 19, 2012, 11:07:34 pm
I appreciate your thirst for knowledge, Thanotos, but this world is messy enough. No. What it needs is unification, leadership. It has to be taken out of chaos by someone with complete control.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Turkhammer on January 19, 2012, 11:22:19 pm
US is doing so well isn't it? /sarcasm

Shut up and send more money to Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Ireland and pray the Euro doesn't go tits up./irony
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Leshma on January 19, 2012, 11:45:08 pm
Why did I come to mind?

You're awesome and sexy and I want to have your babies.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Miley on January 19, 2012, 11:47:08 pm
I don't think Tears is a "veteran" player.
Anyways, this won't happen ever.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Lysander on January 20, 2012, 12:05:02 am
double no

No


No


No,
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Budikhan on January 20, 2012, 12:26:27 am
Here. I fixed the OP's post.

Quote
The problem with the CRPG system is that changes are more like trials and errors. One thing fixes a problem but causes another. Sometimes one class suffers and the other gets a major unnecessary boost shifting gameplay, irritating people who enjoy quality.

Brytenwalda is by far the worst offender in this case but cRPG appears to have a case of the same. Usually situations like this arise due to lack of a clear vision for gameplay or too many tugging influences on either side.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 20, 2012, 12:48:04 am
I don't think Tears is a "veteran" player.

Yup, only been playing since March last year. There are far more players older then me.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Overdriven on January 20, 2012, 01:12:52 am
Yup, only been playing since March last year. There are far more players older then me.

Wait...you've been registered on the forums longer than you actually played this thing? :|
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Teeth on January 20, 2012, 01:25:01 am
No, we already have a working system for cRPG.

(click to show/hide)
I guess you fall under the balancer team, but I really suggest you add yourself as the provider of sarcastic comments on serious game breaking issues and pulling unrepresentative numbers out of your arse to justify changes and then actually thinking you did.

And where is Shik? He should atleast have a line to the crpg community about him doing absolutely nothing at all.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Thomek on January 20, 2012, 02:15:33 am
Guys take a breath and calm down.

We should be very lucky we have any say at all.. Or that we sometimes get heard. How many other games does the community get heard even?

Yes, sometimes they are slow to listen to reason, sometimes stuff doesn't get implemented. But there are always various reasons for this.. Remember this is just chadz and a few internet buddies making everything themselves for free on their free time. They probably have work or studies and RL friends and girlfriends too. At the beginning chadz did most stuff himself, but the mod grew and grew and he needed help. That means organizing a team, which is very different from coding whatever you want to. It means dealing with lazy ass folks, lying sons of bitches, motivating unmotivated folks, hiding your own unmotivation, being accessible to all kinds of problems etc.  IT'S NOT EASY.

They should make THEIR vision come through, not ours. (A clear vision is lacking though , or not told us.)  Anyway, everyone is free to give their suggestions and thoughts in this forum, and the reasonable ones do get heard. Not always responded to because of reasons we don't know. Maybe it's simply too far down on the todo list, maybe the team already discussed it, maybe chadz like it or don't etc. (ladders teeth)

Anyway.. I do agree if we could all get informed about a clear vision of what cRPG should be, where the Team wants to take it, we could perhaps waste less time and put our brains together with OUR suggestions.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Paul on January 20, 2012, 10:55:55 am
If anyone of the balancer team needed an own entity in the diagramm then it would be Shik. But not because he does nothing, but because he does the most concerning models, NA herding, animations, etc.
Title: Re: Division of Powers in CRPG and Checks and Balances System for Changes/Updates
Post by: Vibe on January 20, 2012, 11:28:38 am
Bad.
Bad.
Bad.