cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 01:29:54 pm

Title: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 01:29:54 pm
Hey i have a question,

What kind of nerf did the infantry get over the last year ? outside of the ones like heirloom nerfs etc. something that hit only this very class ? Reason i ask is i dont really play infantry never did, so when it was there i probably didnt noticed it.

Cheers
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Jetsam on January 19, 2012, 01:35:22 pm
Weight having effect on WPF probably hit melee the hardest IMO. Slots would be another, but that hurt Hybrids more than anything.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: [ptx] on January 19, 2012, 01:36:11 pm
Which infantry class? Also poorly disguised attempt at lobbyism.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 01:36:54 pm
Lots of different ones. Usually each class gets nerfed independently.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Okkam on January 19, 2012, 01:47:01 pm
Cmon,
don't you hear about
BIG, AWFUL, HORRIBLE, INSUFFERABLE,
DEFLORATIVE, OFFENSIVE,
SPITEFUL, DISHONEST

nerf of right 2H\polearm Swing?



It was nerfed for 0.1 second!!!
It was nerfed to HELL!!!
Title: Re: A question
Post by: cmp on January 19, 2012, 01:55:10 pm
Well, apparently it was a big deal for 2h, so we reverted it. However since it's not a big deal to cav and ranged players, we decided to add a 0.1s delay on arrow release and a 0.1s delay on horse turn. I don't expect any whine, obviously.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 01:58:02 pm
Weight having effect on WPF probably hit melee the hardest IMO. Slots would be another, but that hurt Hybrids more than anything.

slots system applies to all classes afaik, weight i think also but ok

Which infantry class? Also poorly disguised attempt at lobbyism.

1h with shield/without shield, 2h, polearms with shield/without shield those one

Lots of different ones. Usually each class gets nerfed independently.

which are ? dont let me guessing i really dont know :oops: i can only remember something about "lolstab" being changed, and the recent rightswing speed that was reverted

Well, apparently it was a big deal for 2h, so we reverted it. However since it's not a big deal to cav and ranged players, we decided to add a 0.1s delay on arrow release and a 0.1s delay on horse turn. I don't expect any whine, obviously.

its your mod, you have every right to do so
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 02:20:57 pm
Weapons nerfs. 2h swords lost a lot of thrust damage, couple points of speed and the thrust change. Top-end 1h swords nerfed (elite scimitar losing 1 cut, sidesword getting nerfed heavily etc), shields losing a lot of their forcefield(fu shik) and getting heavier(happened pretty long ago). Damage soak change (not really a nerf per se since every infantry class had to deal with it, but a nerf in a way since ranged still use the old ones). Lots of different polearm changes (longspear, pikes, awlpike can't be used with a shield, etc). Off the top of my head.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Knitler on January 19, 2012, 02:35:07 pm
Fucking nerf of awlpikes ... before the penultimate update you could use a shield in the other hand (its historical correct) its got nerfed and last update awlpike got nerfed AGAIN ...

Only because some kiddies who say;  Omg it makes to many pierce damage and its too fast ... the Awlpike is born to make with distance the most pierce damage (and 1point is NO distance)
Its only footwork to be fast with her ...

There is no sideswing with it so why it get always nerfed to hell!?

Some guys said; Because of Byzantium_Chase ... uh come on its not the weapon its the guy who leads it ...
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Knitler on January 19, 2012, 02:48:56 pm
im only playing with it because its nearly like a bajonette and im playing Mount & musket ... so pls make the awlpike like it could have a shiled ... i dont know how many damage it makes before this god damn nerfes ... :(
Title: Re: A question
Post by: MrShine on January 19, 2012, 03:09:30 pm
Well, apparently it was a big deal for 2h, so we reverted it. However since it's not a big deal to cav and ranged players, we decided to add a 0.1s delay on arrow release and a 0.1s delay on horse turn. I don't expect any whine, obviously.

.1s delay on arrow release has been in the game for awhile without being fixed.  Exhibit A: the longbow.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 03:14:10 pm
ok so what Xant said is pretty much all ? or is there anything else ?

and pls stay on topic

Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chris_P_Bacon on January 19, 2012, 03:20:56 pm
I'm pretty sure they reduced the increase in stats for heirlooms for all 2h/1h/polearms. I don't remember though, I never really cared.

But when they took away some of my glove armor I was pissed xD
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Idzo on January 19, 2012, 03:24:22 pm
ok so what Xant said is pretty much all ? or is there anything else ?

and pls stay on topic


Chagan, don't misunderstand me i don't want to bully with you... What is your point with this thread?
You want to tell something to community? Or what?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 03:29:49 pm
ok so what Xant said is pretty much all ? or is there anything else ?

Not even close. Getting a full list would take forever and it wouldn't be complete even in a month if a dev doesn't give the exact changelog. Like Idzo asked, where are you going with this thread?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 03:42:39 pm

Chagan, don't misunderstand me i don't want to bully with you... What is your point with this thread?
You want to tell something to community? Or what?

it is what it is a simple question, as im curious person, didnt put much attention to infantry gameplay or changes they had as i never liked it/played it over the last year

so basicly i would like to educate myself about the history of nerfs/buffs of the infantry, not the global ones, but that was only directed at infantry

Not even close. Getting a full list would take forever and it wouldn't be complete even in a month if a dev doesn't give the exact changelog. Like Idzo asked, where are you going with this thread?

ok so there was a bunch of -1 speed on this +2 damage -1 damage +1 speed etc. etc.
but anything that changed the fundaments of the infantry gameplay ?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Idzo on January 19, 2012, 03:59:06 pm
it is what it is a simple question, as im curious person, didnt put much attention to infantry gameplay or changes they had as i never liked it/played it over the last year

so basicly i would like to educate myself about the history of nerfs/buffs of the infantry, not the global ones, but that was only directed at infantry

well, lots of animation nerfs, weapon nerfs, slot nerfs etc ...etc..too many to count them...
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Teeth on January 19, 2012, 05:24:30 pm
(click to show/hide)
Sigh, another retard with a complete lack of perspective as far as time goes. You know how long the bulk of the attacks in this game take? Some where around a second. So a 0.1 decrease in swing speed is about 10 percent. A 100 wpf makes you swing 6.5% faster. So this 'minor' change is the difference between having 154 wpf and 1 wpf.

Time is very context sensitive my friend.


Title: Re: A question
Post by: Okkam on January 19, 2012, 05:33:36 pm
Sigh
Yes, another twohander retard, it was just impossible to use left swing, overhead and thrust. Because all what real twohander must do - it's hiltslashing

Title: Re: A question
Post by: Dezilagel on January 19, 2012, 05:37:11 pm
Sigh
Yes, another twohander retard, it was just impossible to use left swing, overhead and thrust. Because all what real twohander must do - it's hiltslashing

Aaw, you can't deal with hiltslashes?

That most probably means you suck.

Anyway:

The rightswing change didn't break the melee vs. other classes balance, it didn't even break balance that bad in melee vs. melee (1h and their leftswing being the exception). But it ruined the duels and promoted spam. Plus, it was slow, boring and awkward but that's just imho.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 05:49:36 pm
Aaw, you can't deal with hiltslashes?

That most probably means you suck.

Anyway:

The rightswing change didn't break the melee vs. other classes balance, it didn't even break balance that bad in melee vs. melee (1h and their leftswing being the exception). But it ruined the duels and promoted spam. Plus, it was slow, boring and awkward but that's just imho.

slowing down right swing promoted spamming ? left swing spamming ? and how does this hiltslashing works exactly ?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Okkam on January 19, 2012, 05:51:08 pm
No Dezi, I'm just saw how horde of 2Handers instantly respecced in something other after 2H right swing animation «nerf».

On the other words - no one remember any serious nerf for any melee infantry class.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 05:53:40 pm
On the other words - no one remember any serious nerf for any melee infantry class.

What would the point of that be? Infantry combat is what Warband shines at, why should melee be "nerfed"?  :? How would you nerf it anyways? It makes no sense. If you nerf one infantry class, then it's underpowered compared to the others. Then you have to nerf the others too... to what effect? To reach status quo again? Why nerf to begin with?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Okkam on January 19, 2012, 05:58:05 pm
You mean Cavalry Combat mechanics was so broken, so it was just impossible to not nerf lancing, yes?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 05:58:57 pm
One could argue that cavalry was too powerful against infantry, yes. I really doubt the angle nerf was implemented because of cav vs cav combat.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Teeth on January 19, 2012, 06:02:01 pm
A huge ass nerf to infantry was the removal of pocket pikes.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Idzo on January 19, 2012, 06:52:00 pm
slowing down right swing promoted spamming ? left swing spamming ? and how does this hiltslashing works exactly ?

Who does couch works? How is possible that someone have attack that you can't block?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 06:56:46 pm
Who does couch works? How is possible that someone have attack that you can't block?

hm ? im asking about hiltslashing as i dont know how it works exactly, its something about facehuggin moving to the side and doing a right slash ?

couch works when on almost full speed you press x
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 19, 2012, 07:06:01 pm
Dont remember when but war spear was changed from 9 to 11 str requirement, which kinda messed up my playstyle abit.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 07:17:07 pm
IMO the most important nerf to inf in history was the forcefield "fix" that almost killed kite/heather/board shields and severely gimped all others.

Also, armor nerfs, including the upkeep patch (although it is true it hurt cav a lot more). Pike/long spear nerfs, 2h lolstab nerf, all the knockdown weapons that lost it... That's about it for the "global" ones.

However, every single (used) melee weapon got nerfed at some point. Unlike cav and ranged that usually are treated as more homogenous groups, melee is nerfed/buffed one or a few weapons at a time. The more global changes are usually done on cav/ranged, which means buffs too.

I think it is justified, as the melee mechanics are much more sensitive to change than ranged and cav ones. Also, we want to keep the melee system nearly intact because it is truly great (at least, it was great before the neverending block battles and the focus on footwork that ensued), unlike cav and ranged mechanics that are less complex to say the least (I'm not saying playing those classes is less complex though).
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Casimir on January 19, 2012, 07:24:07 pm
earlier active attacks. effects inf only.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Teeth on January 19, 2012, 07:24:58 pm
earlier active attacks. effects inf only.
Ohohoh, yeah this one was huge!
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 07:26:33 pm
earlier active attacks. effects inf only.

Yep. I forgot that one.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 07:53:17 pm
earlier active attacks. effects inf only.

can you explain this a bit more ? i dont get it
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Casimir on January 19, 2012, 08:05:49 pm
The attacks from weapons now become active earlier.  this means they detect collisions earlier in the animations, means infantry often hits team-mates stood behind them or two their sides (often out of your line of sight) causing their attack to stop.  Makes is a lot harder to group fight now than it used to be.  The effect on cavalry is not noticeable, especially for a lancer, and for ranged it does not apply.

Furthermore, there have been changes to the states of many weapons, including greatswords/ poleaxes etc.  Changes to the 2h thrust animation and i believe movement speed linked to agility was reduced at some point, although that may just have been a rumour.
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on January 19, 2012, 08:28:11 pm
The attacks from weapons now become active earlier.  this means they detect collisions earlier in the animations, means infantry often hits team-mates stood behind them or two their sides (often out of your line of sight) causing their attack to stop.  Makes is a lot harder to group fight now than it used to be.  The effect on cavalry is not noticeable, especially for a lancer, and for ranged it does not apply.

Furthermore, there have been changes to the states of many weapons, including greatswords/ poleaxes etc.  Changes to the 2h thrust animation and i believe movement speed linked to agility was reduced at some point, although that may just have been a rumour.

ah yes now i remember, thanks it was at the same time as the implementation of ground collision right ?
Title: Re: A question
Post by: Casimir on January 19, 2012, 09:20:16 pm
Indeed, but the  speific effect it had on infantry needed to be outlinned.