cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Ujin on January 12, 2012, 02:45:06 pm
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I don't think it's fair that a mw arbalest can shoot through a mw heavy norman shield, plain and simple.
I think that crossbows of any sort shouldn't be able to penetrate through shields if :
a.) Opponents shield is heavier than 6-6.5 weight
b.) Opponents shield skill is 5 and higher
c.) a combination of both points above
Overall i like the idea of crossbows being able to shoot through shields, it adds variety and depth to the game more or less, but i think it should be seriously balanced. This tweak will also benefit the ballance of sword&board classes, because currently the majority of shielders prefer to use lighter shields (elite cavalry, knightly kite/heater shields). This change would make heavy shields a more viable option.
Your thoughts ?
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No, crossbows doesn't need yet another nerf. Also, you're talking about the light shields with high armour? You do know that those are the ones xbows almost never shoot through. I don't think I ever shot through any of the knightly shields with MW Arbalest and MW Steel Bolts when I was dedicated xbowman. I shot over or under some of them, because some guys used them with 5 shield skill, but not through them. Any shield with less body armour than Huscarl is arbalest prey though.
Want to be protected from bolts? Get a shield with high body armour.
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I'm pretty sure that xbow penetration depends on shield body armor, the higher armor the lower chance that the bolt will go through. Basically what Gurni said.
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No, crossbows doesn't need yet another nerf. Also, you're talking about the light shields with high armour? You do know that those are the ones xbows almost never shoot through. I don't think I ever shot through any of the knightly shields with MW Arbalest and MW Steel Bolts when I was dedicated xbowman. I shot over or under some of them, because some guys used them with 5 shield skill, but not through them. Any shield with less body armour than Huscarl is arbalest prey though.
Want to be protected from bolts? Get a shield with high body armour.
Well, yet another not-really-hidden encouragement to use round shields (plate covered, huscarl in this case) then =/.
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I think 19 armour is the point where xbow bolts won't shoot through shield. Anyway shield speed > shield hp.
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Crossbows can shoot through huscarl and elite cav. Siiem is wrong. (And no one was talking about shield HP but shield armor, nooblet)
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i saw this shot from dave into jackies head... it was unrealistic.
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Also, you're talking about the light shields with high armour? You do know that those are the ones xbows almost never shoot through.
What i meant was people prefer to use lighter shields that have more speed rating . If heavier (weight-wise) shields were harder to penetrate by a xbow , it would make more people think of taking a heavier shield instead.
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Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. :oops:
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I don't know what the majority of the crossbows my shield is hit with are using, I don't think it's arbalests (due to the faster reload speeds I see). But I don't think I've ever once had a crossbow shoot through my elite cavalry shield, or my knightly heater shield. That was with 4 shield skill, and now I have 6.
IF you were going to make that change, I think it should be only for shields that are over 7.5 weight, so that it only made 2 slot shields more viable.
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I think the way you hold your shield should also make some difference: if you raise it high enough to cover your face then there's no way a bolt should be able to penetrate it, no matter which shield and how many shield skill you have. I'm not 100% sure about it but i think it already DOES matter, since most of the people out there don't know how to hold a shield, just look at the shield walls: they stand with their shield lowered and then wonder how the hell do they (and the people behind them) get headshot all the time.
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I don't think it's fair I shoot a buckler in the face and it get's sucked in. I don't think you understand I can't shoot through a MW Norman and I have a MW Arbalest. I don't think that the suction of a shield is fair at all. BULL I SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE and yet there's a big invisible wall infront of you..... Can't even shoot you'r foot. So dumb and unfair on the PEW side (xbow are only one PEW)
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no
1-not much guys who use arbalest
2-many shields never allow bolt come thru
3-only retards spend bolt and time for shooting shielders in the shield,only when they are in danger or last.
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no
1-not much guys who use arbalest
2-many shields never allow bolt come thru
3-only retards spend bolt and time for shooting shielders in the shield,only when they are in danger or last.
I would shoot them only if I know my bolt with penetrate. There are a select few people I know use a low Shield str build(I mean they carry shitty shields.
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IIRC It has nothing to do with shield skill, just the shield's resistance(body_armor) stat.
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Like I wrote to game mechanic thread (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23607.0.html) based on a post by Paul, crossbow penetrates shield if
damage > 30 + 3 * (shield armor)
So basically 20 resistance will make you fairly safe from even +3 arbalest with +3 steel bolts (need over 90 damage to penetrate that), but speed bonuses might still cause you to get penetrated.
Out of all shields the following have resistance 20 or above:
Elite Cavalry Shield (21)
Knightly Heater Shield (33)
Knightly Kite Shield (31)
Plate Covered Round Shield (61)
Huscarl's Round Shield (20)
Steel Buckler (62)
Round Steel Buckler (40)
Steel Shield (74)
+3 on a shield increases resistance by 4 I believe though, so many others pass this limit. Regardless, it's a fairly arbitary limit anyway due to speed bonuses and air friction. Yet, to be safe Knightly Heater Shield, Knightly Kite Shield or any of the metallic shields give you resistance to at minimum 123 damage which is 90 damage shot with 37% bonus from speed. At under 15 shield resistance (30 + 15*3 = 75 damage) you start to seriously risk getting your shield penetrated by a bolt.
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does it penetrate easier on dmged shields?
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does it penetrate easier on dmged shields?
No. Only shield armor matters, so the only two factors are:
- Type of shield
- Heirloom level of shield
As far as I know shield armor (ie resistance value) isn't boosted by shield skill. I believe shield skill is a separate factor reducing damage and thus doesn't affect this.
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I would like to note that the force field effect works much better on a round shield than the kite and rectangle shields. To the point that you can't even shoot someone with a round shield in the foot due to the arrows teleporting up to their shield. I feel bad when people complain about the archer not shooting them in the foot when its pretty much impossible as long as the guy has 4 or more shield skill. Low shield skill on the other hand lets people shoot through the model of the shield, which is hilariously depressing when levelling up.
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I would like to note that the force field effect works much better on a round shield than the kite and rectangle shields. To the point that you can't even shoot someone with a round shield in the foot due to the arrows teleporting up to their shield. I feel bad when people complain about the archer not shooting them in the foot when its pretty much impossible as long as the guy has 4 or more shield skill. Low shield skill on the other hand lets people shoot through the model of the shield, which is hilariously depressing when levelling up.
Yeah. I only noticed this now that I started using the tiny shield skill 5 buckler at shield skill 6 (and it'll be skill 7 at 30!). Sometimes a ranged may get a shot to my feet or my upper body, but most of the time my tiny ashtray absorbs everything as long as I point it towards the right direction. Sure, bigger round shields are even safer, but the ashtray is ridiculously good against ranged considering how tiny it is. I've started to use it more and more since it's also fast, very durable (it's basically steel plated round shield with about -33% hp) and light. Also with the 60ish armor a crossbow would need 210 damage to penetrate the shield :D
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Yeah. I only noticed this now that I started using the tiny shield skill 5 buckler at shield skill 6 (and it'll be skill 7 at 30!). Sometimes a ranged may get a shot to my feet or my upper body, but most of the time my tiny ashtray absorbs everything as long as I point it towards the right direction. Sure, bigger round shields are even safer, but the ashtray is ridiculously good against ranged considering how tiny it is. I've started to use it more and more since it's also fast, very durable (it's basically steel plated round shield with about -33% hp) and light. Also with the 60ish armor a crossbow would need 210 damage to penetrate the shield :D
I also started using that shield when I have 5 shield skill. Almost no reason not to use it, and funny as hell when the ranged people shoot at your feet and it just teleports up to your wrist.