cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Arkonor on January 11, 2012, 03:25:21 pm
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Been wondering why polearm stats are so much better for equal value items.
Polearms get stuneffect.
2h's reach is about 20 higher on swings.
Example
Great Bardiche [2H]
Price : 6906
Speed : 89
Dmg : 44 cut
Length : 116 (136 with swing animation bonus)
UNBALANCED
Long Bardiche [Polearm]
Price : 6934
Speed : 89
Dmg : 45 cut (Has also a bad stab)
Length : 140
This is just one example. I for one would never take unbalanced stuff without getting at least 5 extra dmg for that penalty.
But this isn't the only example it seems bot be cross board that polearms have better stats.
So can anyone explain to me what the "MISSING" bonus is with using two handed weapons ? Do their animation make them connect faster for the same speed ? Do they spew fire ?
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Escape this thread while you still can
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The bardiches are a bad example; the 2H bardiches/axes are terrible. People go 2H for the Great Maul and the swords.
Great Maul is the premier crushthrough weapon, and in general, 2H swords have the reach of a spear on their thrust and extremely favorable animations compared to polearms. Polearms trade crappy animations for utility (stun, horse rearing, pierce dmg, shieldbreaking, etc).
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2h weapons are less fun and easier,and faster than polearms but polearms have the stun,more dmg and more range.
It is hard to play at biggining,but after you get used to,you newer want to go back to 2h.
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As of know, polearms are the stronger weapon class I think. Very weird to compare these two weapons though, few people actually use these two. You should compare a poleaxe and one of the Greatswords.
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Two-handers are better for dueling and for winning when you're outnumbered. Polearms are a lot more versatile, have the stagger and is generally hard-hitting.
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Polearms are better for
a) Siege
b) Duel
c) Battle
d) Capture the Flag
e) Defend the Virgin
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As of know, polearms are the stronger weapon class I think. Very weird to compare these two weapons though, few people actually use these two. You should compare a poleaxe and one of the Greatswords.
Was harder to compare since they have different utilities like a useful longer stab vs higher dmg stab.
These two have the same function really but not in stats.
But when I think about it more I do think originally 2h-ers could all be used from a mount but none of the polearms (axe types). Might explain why they have worse stats.
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Polearms are better for
a) Siege
b) Duel
c) Battle
d) Capture the Flag
e) Defend the Village
Which village?
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Polearms are better for
c) Battle... maybe
Fixed it for you.
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Fixed it for you.
Not at all.
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Not at all.
I'm sorry but I disagree. Polearms are simply not better dueling weapons than two handers in my opinion.
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Apples and Oranges.
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Cuz majority of polearm people bitch about every nerf on them, and push for the nerfs on others.
probably just becuase its the most versatile weapon, so almost everyone is using it.
theres maybe what... 10-20 people out of the some 20,000 people using polearms that have more then an ounce of skill.
(watch your back for dainsters, that dude is sick)
Key to stopping rolly pole-ys is blocking their two go-to's overhand, and stab.
They are piss scared of hitting teammates, and hate walls, so pretty much 4 out of 5 swings are going to be over or under hand.
I dont think they realize how weak this makes polearms, unless your alone with 5 enemies in a field.
Endurance.
Cuz thats how dainsters gets you, you can block his over underhands 10 times he just keeps jump spin stabbing till he lands it.
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Most omni-directional 2h have the same or better range than omni-directional polearms. Coupled with the better animations they become the better weapon for duelling and surrounded fighting. The large range polearms that work great as support are pretty much incapable of fighting by themselves due to having only 1 or 2 attack directions. Only a few people can deal with this and it looks weird as hell when you see a pikeman doing 360 spins mid-fight. Also the 2h animations seem to favor not glancing much more than the polearm animations. I feel 2hs are just much more well rounded in their ability to deal with all situations compared to an equal polearm. Stabbing polearms do kick ass in the crazy but spread out fights that tend to happen in battle on some maps. Nothing better than stepping away from your enemy and stabbing another in the back 5 feet away.
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You are all dumb, except for Dex. :D
Polearms have way too much variety for a broad comparison statement between 2h and poles to have any validity. Certain equipment combinations and character builds benefit more from one weapon than they do another. It's impossible to be great at everything but the most well rounded weapons, tend to be two-handers. Polearms tend to be more specialized in one or two things. About the only thing two-handers tend to do poorly, is break shields, but some polearms tend to do even worse than a longsword would for that. Polearms are all about versatility and specialization, two-handers are just well rounded without much specialization.
Of course, if I had to pick the top 5 weapons in crpg right now, not one of them would be a two-hander. I think that says something about the actual weapons themselves rather than the classes though.
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You are all dumb, except for Dex. :D
Polearms have way too much variety for a broad comparison statement between 2h and poles to have any validity. Certain equipment combinations and character builds benefit more from one weapon than they do another. It's impossible to be great at everything but the most well rounded weapons, tend to be two-handers. Polearms tend to be more specialized in one or two things. About the only thing two-handers tend to do poorly, is break shields, but some polearms tend to do even worse than a longsword would for that. Polearms are all about versatility and specialization, two-handers are just well rounded without much specialization.
Of course, if I had to pick the top 5 weapons in crpg right now, not one of them would be a two-hander. I think that says something about the actual weapons themselves rather than the classes though.
1.Arbelest
2.Long Voluge
3.Rus Bow
4.Horn Bow
5.Cross Bow
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You are all dumb, except for Dex. :D
Polearms have way too much variety for a broad comparison statement between 2h and poles to have any validity. Certain equipment combinations and character builds benefit more from one weapon than they do another. It's impossible to be great at everything but the most well rounded weapons, tend to be two-handers. Polearms tend to be more specialized in one or two things. About the only thing two-handers tend to do poorly, is break shields, but some polearms tend to do even worse than a longsword would for that. Polearms are all about versatility and specialization, two-handers are just well rounded without much specialization.
Of course, if I had to pick the top 5 weapons in crpg right now, not one of them would be a two-hander. I think that says something about the actual weapons themselves rather than the classes though.
I see what you're getting at, however lets call it for what it is. Even if you wanted to group specific items such as the war spear, glaive, hafted blades,or even the infamous bec into the equation together, two handers by and large just make for the better dueling weapons, especially with those really cheesy builds. By and large, the animations on two handers are just so much smoother and easier to use effectively, even in the most awkward of positions with enough power strike. I've tested on several builds (using the same sort of standard nothing special stats of 5-6 powerstrike and also higher 8-9 power strike strength builds) tested on the same standard medium to heavy armor. I glanced much more often with my polearms. Also, even when I went to the bec to erase this issue, with the bec you can still get out ranged by a two hander of the same range simply because of the way two handed animations make the user grip the sword. The stab on the two handed sword now is also arguably even trickier now than it was before simply because of the duration time one can inflict damage within the animation. Thats not to say that two handers were a cake walk compared to polearm dueling, but there was definitely a noticeable difference in difficulty by and large. Even if polearms didn't specialize the way they did with certain weapons, they'd still be anything but impractical as far as i'm concerned. That being said, id still have to stand by my point that two handers by and large are simply more suited to duel situations.
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I see what you're getting at, however lets call it for what it is. Even if you wanted to group specific items such as the war spear, glaive, hafted blades,or even the infamous bec into the equation together, two handers by and large just make for the better dueling weapons, especially with those really cheesy builds. By and large, the animations on two handers are just so much smoother and easier to use effectively, even in the most awkward of positions with enough power strike. I've tested on several builds (using the same sort of standard nothing special stats of 5-6 powerstrike and also higher 8-9 power strike strength builds) tested on the same standard medium to heavy armor. I glanced much more often with my polearms. Also, even when I went to the bec to erase this issue, with the bec you can still get out ranged by a two hander of the same range simply because of the way two handed animations make the user grip the sword. The stab on the two handed sword now is also arguably even trickier now than it was before simply because of the duration time one can inflict damage within the animation. Thats not to say that two handers were a cake walk compared to polearm dueling, but there was definitely a noticeable difference in difficulty by and large. Even if polearms didn't specialize the way they did with certain weapons, they'd still be anything but impractical as far as i'm concerned. That being said, id still have to stand by my point that two handers by and large are simply more suited to duel situations.
Agreed though this could use some spacing. Double space or make some paragraphs hard to read for us Scrubs!
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Sorry :oops:
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For dueling who though? I'll take a 1h for dueling pretty much anyone that has less than 30/40 armor; If my opponent has mid range armor, I'd take a 2her; if I'm fighting someone who has 70+ armor, I'm taking a bec. Regardless of their weapon or their speed(aside maybe from the fastest people, in which case, I'd probably go with a war spear) this holds true for just about every build I can think of. For the most part, I'd have to say armor has the most influence on a 1v1 situation(duels). Which is probably why in native, if you try dueling people while having any armor other than the default, many people won't even bother accepting your challenge.
pseudo-edit(too lazy to retype/add this in elsewhere): Assuming I get to create my own build. Also, if we had the old side sword stats I'd probably take 1hers up to about 50 armor.
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You are all dumb, except for Dex. :D
Polearms have way too much variety for a broad comparison statement between 2h and poles to have any validity. Certain equipment combinations and character builds benefit more from one weapon than they do another. It's impossible to be great at everything but the most well rounded weapons, tend to be two-handers. Polearms tend to be more specialized in one or two things. About the only thing two-handers tend to do poorly, is break shields, but some polearms tend to do even worse than a longsword would for that. Polearms are all about versatility and specialization, two-handers are just well rounded without much specialization.
Of course, if I had to pick the top 5 weapons in crpg right now, not one of them would be a two-hander. I think that says something about the actual weapons themselves rather than the classes though.
well said, thats why your picture is with one. Becuase its a weapon of war just pure and simple. its a bar of cold steel, not much variety or anything to look at or have fun with. Just steel-sword "Good for killin"
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well said, thats why your picture is with one. Becuase its a weapon of war just pure and simple. its a bar of cold steel, not much variety or anything to look at or have fun with. Just steel-sword "Good for killin"
I have 9 craft skill with a MW GLA in strat and 15 with a MW Niuweidao, can't craft any two-handers or bows though.
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I'd argue that "better" depends on the situation. I recently rolled a 12/27 character (4 PS, 9 WM, 9 ATH, 1 extra point, 139 2h wpf, 140 polearm wpf), and I was able to switch between my MW Warspear and my MW Katana on the fly for any situation, and let me tell you, it was freaking awesome. They both dealt with most situations really well (with Warspear REALLY only outshining the Katana when Horses were involved, but otherwise pretty equal in usefulness).
The problem with comparing the two is: Bias, situation, particular weapons (Elegent poleaxe is NOT a war spear, but I'd argue that the Greatswords aren't that different from the lower tiered weapons, other than damage/length), personal skill (Some people just can't USE one or the other). In the end, I'd like to argue that it's not which is BETTER, but which it is that You, personally, prefer. I advocate playing ALL of the classes, finding what you like, and then playing that.
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well said, thats why your picture is with one. Becuase its a weapon of war just pure and simple. its a bar of cold steel, not much variety or anything to look at or have fun with. Just steel-sword "Good for killin"
Well, a sword is a much more technically sophisticated weapon than a spear/longaxe.
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Length. & Great maul :)
2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80 (This may be slightly wrong with the new stab animation)
2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23607.0
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IMO the polearms will always be the best due to the ability to always be in charge of the fight due to the length. You are always the first to hit, and by simply holding a blow you can win fights very easily. 2 hander is missing summin atm.
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Polearms
more Speed (GLA or Glaive definetly tend to Be faster than a SoW eg)
Damage.
Sometimes length (Glaive, Poleaxes, Spears and Pikes)
Polestagger and usually Bonus against Shields.
Also more weight (STUN)
and imo more confusing animations but this might Be only me.
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And polearms can still lolstab.
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I'm sorry but I disagree. Polearms are simply not better dueling weapons than two handers in my opinion.
Well, some guy got bored, got a 6 agi peasant using the Ashwood Pike, pwning some great swordmen so that the developers had to raise the Ashwoods prices to the nirvana, decrease its stats, a weapon you cant sheath cant use on horseback with two attack directions only, ye ye yeah welcome to items balancers world.
But still you can swing huge (pole)axes like they were pencils or something. They are the weapon for those who dont have the eye to be ranger and not the awareness to be horsemen, and of course cant parry. 2h at least needs a minimum of skill, to know when stab and when better swing, lol.