cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Formless on January 08, 2012, 09:41:42 pm

Title: Learning Chambering
Post by: Formless on January 08, 2012, 09:41:42 pm: Hey guys, as a new year resolution I decided to learn how to chamber on purpose :D

For some reason this has been one of the few things in warband that I have no idea how to do on demand. Lets make this the primer chambering thread on the boards. So please leave your best tips on chambering here and help me out and anyone else who wants to learn how to do it well.

Suggested topics:

1.) What is chambering --> for the newbs that do not know what it is.

*****Modified http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U (2:04 <--Reapy explanation on chambers vid.) ****

2.) How do you do it.
3.) Best class to use to learn chambering
4.) Learning advice.
5.) Who is the best at chambering on N/A and EU servers. (The e-preen portion of the thread :D)

Cheers,
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: BlackMilk on January 08, 2012, 09:47:47 pm: 5. Khorin
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: [ptx] on January 08, 2012, 09:47:55 pm: 1) Already answered
2) Tons of practice + some luck
3) 2h vs 2h is the easiest, it seems
4) Find a buddy to learn it with, just do non-held side-swings till you get it.
5) Awww, better don't. Anyway, i vote STR_Kpybopyk for EU.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Christo on January 08, 2012, 09:49:02 pm: Chambering actually is a lot easier these days than ever before.

At least for me, I even killed a few guys with a well timed chamber attack. 8-)

Basically all you have to do, is to release a quick counterattack to face the enemies weapon when it almost hits you, this blocks his attack while yours will still go for the enemy, most don't expect it, so it's a good way to break through defenses.

Best class? I'd put this together with your three: Learning advice.

Find a buddy, go to duel server, get wooden weapons, sticks are very good for this.

And practice while standing still first, overhead and stab are a lot easier than the side swings, but they aren't impossble either.
Also bring heavy armor if you can, makes practices longer, and forgiving.

Also if you duel people, try focusing on not to block or spam them, but to chamber them.
Sure, you might fail sometimes, but it will help you on the long run.

PS: Don't even think about using chamber techniques against people who hold or spam feints all the time. Against those, you have to get them under stress to stop doing holds and do simple attacks while focusing on blocking. From my experience and what I know, chambering holded swings in a real fight is virtually impossible. Sure, it could happen, I don't know. But it's too risky.

But I'm not a real Chamber master. Let one of those talk, might give you a better insight. :wink:
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Formless on January 08, 2012, 09:58:23 pm: I am sort of getting board playing the same way over and over again. The way I play is effective but I did lose some zest for this game. I think learning a new skill like chambering might bring some of the fun back for me. So thanks for the tips guys.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Teeth on January 08, 2012, 10:02:56 pm: This is a link to the video with the correct time already selected http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U#t=2m04s

1/2) Base premise is just getting your chambered weapon in front of the enemy's swing. Works best if you look at the enemy's weapon.

4) Experience, you slowly get a feel for it, if I do chambers it's mostly a reflex. Although I do it intentionally too when I expect hiltslashes etc. Another thing that might help is fighting the bots in the singeplayer tutorial. They always do regular attacks and you'll eventually learn to chamber them. Not sure if setting combat speed to lowest at first is a good idea, it might help you learn it gradually, but might also greatly mess up your chamber timing for regular speed.

3) I was a 2h before, could chamber decently. Now I respecced to polearm and can hardly chamber anything. I think this is mostly to just not being used to a new weapon's speed and that it doesnt mean 2h is better for chambering. There is no best class, I recommend you stick with one class and with 1 weapon to get a good feel for it. I do think chambering 2h is easier than polearms for instance. The 2h swing animations are more consistent, polearm chambers (the attack, not chamberblocking) slow and swings very fast.

5) Might be Kpubopyk for EU.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Christo on January 08, 2012, 10:07:30 pm: What about the old timers?

I only remember Chimp atm.

Come here, tell some of the older players who might've left.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Kafein on January 08, 2012, 10:33:52 pm: Before I sold it, I spent some time on the duel server with a +3 black armor, and a 6/30 2h build (I was level 27 iirc).

I don't know why exactly, but I chambered a lot more attacks, even without changing my playstyle at all. Now that I think of it, it's probably because my slowness caused others to spam and often my (normal) attacks happened to be timed right to chamber their double swings.

Also, being able to survive 8+ swings helps.

Now, what I say is that heavy armor + STR stacking works better for chamberblocks. I'm not saying it's a viable playstyle, considering that any decent footwork is enough to kill you, dodging arrows and bolts is nearly impossible, and you must start your attacks extremely soon after blocking (otherwise you risk being spammed), which forces you to be in a concentration state I personally can't sustain for a very long time (also note that while chambering counters this timing problem, in some extreme cases it won't be enough). Finally, holding and feinting is very risky due to your slowness and the enemy's tendency to spam.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Teeth on January 08, 2012, 10:37:21 pm: I have also experienced that being slower makes chambering easier. Might be that your animations take longer to complete and thus the 'chamber window' also takes longer. Not sure though.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on January 08, 2012, 10:44:52 pm: Good practice for chamber blocking are pikemen, guess what direction they are gonna atack? :mrgreen: Btw you can chamber block stabs with your stab but also with your overhead, however you cant chamber block overheads with your stab
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Kafein on January 08, 2012, 11:08:52 pm: Another advice : no matter what weapon you have in your hands (except ranged ofc. but then please die in a fire), always try to chamber lancers. A lance thrust is probably the slowest attack in the game with usual builds, and is thus extremely predictable and easy to chamber. With a little bit of luck you might even be able to strike back.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: isatis on January 09, 2012, 12:24:07 am: 5 NA saulcanner also robinlongstride for chambering cav and frugfrug for stone chamber

good practice is: Go in duel with one of your e-friend and challenge him to a chainchamber. (like overhead, chamber, chamber, chamber, chamber etc...)
we lasted between 1 and 2 min with slow wep (trident and flamberge) with speedy wep (mw greatsword) it's humanly impossible to keep up... unless you got some strange mouse and ultragood ping! (for the record I got a bit less than 100 ping in NA 3)

also, yes slow wep are better to practice chamber but beware, you can only chamber on demand (easily) wep with same speed or little dfference.

so for a more natural way to practice, go in duel and get two flamberge ask for flammy duel and hop practice!

after a lot of them, you will have a ''sense'' for chamber and sometime automatically chamber some ppl.

for my e-peen, i'll tell you a happy story. I had my 41/3 maul/plate built (basically always ct and 1 hit after) and I was in a big bad gangbang : jumped into 4 ennemie, killing one by suprise, other want to resist, I start my ~~spamming~~ weapon wise tactic overhead mania and kill the other. and then in vanilla M&B i should hve died because at the very same time a pikeman and a 2h make two attack from 2 different direction (stab and overhead) BUT we in warband so I ~~spammed~~ used a built wise tactic by hitting repeatitly with overhead with such great(lucky) timing that it happen that I chamber BOTH at the same time! with the chamber I killed 2h and the pikemen soon felt from my migthy ~~spamming~~ hit. my e-epeen was as big as a whale... until I get killed my a backstabbing ninja...

morale of the story: use overhead when gang bang especially when pikeman, and when you slow as a turtle, it may not work but atleast you got some chance!
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on January 09, 2012, 12:34:12 am: Quote from: Kafein on January 08, 2012, 11:08:52 pm
Another advice : no matter what weapon you have in your hands (except ranged ofc. but then please die in a fire), always try to chamber lancers. A lance thrust is probably the slowest attack in the game with usual builds, and is thus extremely predictable and easy to chamber. With a little bit of luck you might even be able to strike back.
A noob like myself is able to dehorse lancers thanks to chambering and a +3 long dagger. Always try to chamber cav!
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Malaclypse on January 09, 2012, 12:40:41 am: Once you figure it out, it's really easy to do against people who don't feint or hold. I killed a Great Long Axe user in battle the other day with a long dagger after using three successful chambers to close the gap. Pretty hilarious stuff man.

Just practice, preferably with someone who can already pull them off reliably. Every weapon has a different feel to it, so some fine tuning to your timing will have to be done depending on what you're using, but it's actually ridiculously easy, just a wee bit harder than a regular block. I can't believe it took me so long to even really attempt to get better at them.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: [ptx] on January 09, 2012, 08:30:47 am: Actually, chamberblocking is the best thing to do against feinters. If your opponent feints, but you try to chamber against that feint attack, you hit him before he hits you (unless he is using a longsword or a katana, doesn't work against those :/)(Or unless you are using a slow ass weapon)
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Herkkutatti on January 09, 2012, 09:22:35 am: If you want basic training , try chambering with bots 8-)
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Vibe on January 09, 2012, 10:47:32 am: First lesson: chambering =/= chamberblocking
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Kafein on January 09, 2012, 11:35:40 am: Quote from: [ptx] on January 09, 2012, 08:30:47 am
Actually, chamberblocking is the best thing to do against feinters. If your opponent feints, but you try to chamber against that feint attack, you hit him before he hits you (unless he is using a longsword or a katana, doesn't work against those :/)(Or unless you are using a slow ass weapon)

Yeah that's the problem with chamberblocks. For common skill, sometimes it fails and you pay it, so you need a lot of STR not to die after three hits. But you also need your attacks not to be too slow (and your weapon shoulnd't be too small either) to avoid falling for feints and holds of fast weapons.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 09, 2012, 12:14:53 pm: My tips for this is go to single player, find a training area and challenge bots, attempt to chamber all their hits. I usually chamber then interrupt my attack before i hit so i can keep training without having to switch opponent ^^'

Also going by sound works pretty well for me sometimes, when i hear the swoop sound, when an attack is launched i attack usually results in a chamber.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Xtrah on January 09, 2012, 01:11:33 pm: Too many players fails against a good sideswing chamber :) If you'd like a quick demonstration/some tips, send me a PM and I can add you on steam. EU only though.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Teeth on January 09, 2012, 02:24:02 pm: Quote from: Vibe on January 09, 2012, 10:47:32 am
First lesson: chambering =/= chamberblocking
Too late man, term has already changed meaning. I'm surprised no one has said 'click LMB' or something.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 09, 2012, 02:55:08 pm: 2.) I dunno, I just, uh, chamber?
3.) Probably not 1handed. You will be far more often out of reach to chamber than with polearms or twohanders.
4.) (speaking as a twohander): chambering sidewings is hardly worth it. Not only because those are harder to pull off, but also people manage to block those more often for some reason.
5.) Str_KpuBopyk is actually a pretty good call. It's like fighting Urist with the addition of the occasional chamber (his ryhtm goes like: block, block, block, block, block, block, chamber...) but unlike khorin, and occasionally Phyrex, this guy NEVER falls for held swings.
Speaking native wise: M. That guy is chambering thrusts like a bitch all the time
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: [ptx] on January 09, 2012, 02:59:48 pm: Quote from: wayyyyyne on January 09, 2012, 02:55:08 pm
It's like fighting Urist with the addition of the occacsional chamber (his ryhtm goes like: block, block, block, block, block, block, chamber...) but unlike khorin, and occasionally Phyrex, this guy NEVER falls for held swings.
Must have caught him on a non-chambering day, it usually goes like chamber, block, chamber, chamber, block, chamber, block, chamber, spam, chamber, block...
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 09, 2012, 03:03:04 pm: Probably depends on the player he's fighting. I was pointing out that this guy just keeps blocking until he spots the chance to chamber one of your attacks (It's as lame as it is effective)
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on January 09, 2012, 05:07:18 pm: I learned my chambering by failing at it for a day. Then started in earnest, sitting on EU_3 duelling without using the blocking at all, only focused on chambers.

And if I ever was the best at something in cRPG, those days are waaaaay behind me.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Spawny on January 09, 2012, 05:11:51 pm: Thing I usually notice:

When you start chambering, people tend to hold their attacks.
Chambering a feint may result in you hitting the guy, chambering a held attack results in you getting hit.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: RandomDude on January 09, 2012, 06:32:36 pm: What ptx says is right (about using it vs feinters)

It's really rare for ppl to chamber in battle/siege, although it does happen and therefore it's best to try to use it in those situations.

I dont even plan to chamber any more,I just do it and usually vs thrust attacks.

I dunno what happened with side swing chambers but they became really hard for me to pull off lately.

You can also chamber held attacks, sometimes by timing (read part-luck) and sometimes just because you're fast enough to release in time.

I dont want to go in depth on everything Ive learned about chambering for a few reasons.

#1 Im not where I want to be with it yet
#2 It took me many hours and many deaths to get to this stage
#3 To be able to do it and learn from anything else I type u need to do #2 first.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Xtrah on January 09, 2012, 10:37:36 pm: As RandomDude states, it's very rare to see chambers in battle and siege, but I think that's what makes it good. An unexpected chamber wins a lot of fights if you have the damage. :)
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Phyrex on January 09, 2012, 11:00:52 pm: 1. Go to Native tutorial.
2. Practise chamber on the veteran npc.
3. Chamber every strike he throws at you.
4. When 3 is done for a long time -> go duels/battles and try them out.
5. Repeat forever!

[Edit]: Or well... that's what I did and it has worked out pretty god damn good so far. :P
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on January 10, 2012, 12:41:16 am: I found a duelling guide on the TW forums, where LordHasek brings in some points of critisism about chambering, which could be relevant for you. Note, this is in native:

Quote
Chamber Blocking: When and Why
[/size]

Up until now, I have mostly discounted the technique of chamber blocking and it's role in duels. I will start with a discussion of the limitations and disadvantages of this technique. Actively chamber blocking with any kind of reliability depends greatly on the duelists ping, and it is my opinion anything over 60 ms makes chamber blocking a shaky proposition at best. Additionally, chamber blocking imposes no penalty on the opponent who has had his attack chamber blocked - that is to say the opposing duelist is not stunned as if their attack had simply been parried normally. Lastly, the speed of your weapon also greatly affects the timing necessary for successful chamber blocks. A relatively slow great sword is an entirely different experience from the light and quick spear. Having made these cautionary statements, let us turn to the advantages and best uses of chamber blocking.

The greatest and most obvious advantage of an unexpected chamber block is the deadliness of your new attack. If the opposing duelist is in range of your weapon, then he has only a split second to abort from what he expected to be a successful attack into a precision parry. The sound of clanging metal is the only warning an opponent has that his attack has been chamber blocked, and registering this sound in time to parry the strike is difficult, though not impossible, even for expert duelists. So when exactly is the best time to chamber block? Or, rephrased, when is it safest to attempt a chamber block? During the opening of the duel is when you should be working for your best positioning on your opponent and this is therefore your best chance at chamber blocking and catching your opponent by surprise. During the heat of The Dance your positioning is rarely optimal and makes chamber blocking a much lower percentage move. This is not to say chamber blocking cannot be done, but it requires a few components to be successful.
* Your opponent is feinting. By knowing how to chamber you can call your opponent's feints and score a quick kill.
* You have the positioning advantage. Swinging while turned at anything greater than 30 degrees to your opponent will result in a failed chamber and a quick death.
* You have the ping necessary to accomplish the chamber. Self explanatory and is addressed above.

Chamber Blocking Reference Guide:
Attack incoming from your left - You swing to your left
Attack incoming from your right - You swing to your right
Attack is a thrust - You thrust OR you swing overhead
Attack is an overhead - You swing overhead

All credits go to LordHasek: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?action=profile;u=70267 (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?action=profile;u=70267)

From this thread on the TW forums: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118804.0.html (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118804.0.html)
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Teeth on January 10, 2012, 12:50:23 am: Quote from above quote:

During the opening of the duel is when you should be working for your best positioning on your opponent and this is therefore your best chance at chamber blocking and catching your opponent by surprise. During the heat of The Dance your positioning is rarely optimal and makes chamber blocking a much lower percentage move.

I fully disagree with this, the opening of the duel mostly involves a lot of holding and dancing in and out at the edge of your/the opponents range, very hard to chamber, and a chance that if you chamber, your opponent might be out of range for your chamberattack. Best moment to chamber is mid fight as soon as you notice your opponent feints a lot, or just does a lot of regular attacks. If you have a decent distance from your opponent and face him, you go in chamber alert mode, wait for his attack and boom.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Xant on January 10, 2012, 07:47:28 am: It's an old guide, some of the stuff he says is pretty outdated.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: ShinySpoons on January 10, 2012, 08:05:41 am: Chambering against shielders frequently gets that "free" hit blocked while against polearms/2handers more likely results in a hit.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: [ptx] on January 10, 2012, 08:34:57 am: I'd say it's the opposite, shields are generally slower to block with. Maybe the stun time on weapon being blocked is shorter on 1h, tho.

As to entering combat with a chamber, that depends on how good you are at chambering different things and what you are fighting against. I personally like to enter combat against 2h with a chamber, i know other people that are very good at this too. In mid-combat i find chambering a lot more unreliable with odd angles and animation glitches and whatnot.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: RandomDude on January 10, 2012, 01:30:50 pm: Chambering in duels and chambering in siege/battle is totally different.

Of course you press the same button and move the mouse the same way but I rarely find myself in a "duel" situation in battle or siege.

In a duel, any serious opponent will be trying to work out the best way to kill you and if you chamber a lot they will just use held attacks. The best people to use chambers on in a duel are the players who arent used to them, but they will probably die to feints and held attacks just as easily (and its a lot safer to use those techniques).

Chambering is safer in battle/siege than in duels as held attacks/feints are just less common. I dont get kills in battle/siege from constant 1v1 situations but by making sure I get a safe hit on an enemy while in a group OR backstabs. I rarely get chamber block kills because I rarely use it and I can only forsee my use of it increasing if I played a lot more and my skill level increased AND flamberge became faster or I started using a faster weapon.

Chamber blocking is best used with faster weapons imo. Players have less time to block it and you have more time to actually perform it (i think?).

Thrust chambers are easier to perform for me but I still fail often.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Spawny on January 10, 2012, 02:03:49 pm: Quote from: RandomDude on January 10, 2012, 01:30:50 pm
Chamber blocking is best used with faster weapons imo. Players have less time to block it and you have more time to actually perform it (i think?).

Yup. All agility character with max WM and all points in 1h with a long dagger=easy chambering. Instead of blocking, you swing in the direction you would block otherwise and you chamber block instead.

Create an STF alt and try it. Surprisingly easy.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Osiris on January 10, 2012, 02:59:04 pm: if you want to practice go to Nditions duel server on native. they have 4 AI bots you can duel :D trainer who is naked with a wooden stick and then easy medium champion :D
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Casimir on January 10, 2012, 03:50:44 pm: Chamber with a morningstar, like a bawwss.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Phazey on January 10, 2012, 05:29:01 pm: The only real use i've found in battle mode for chambering is chambering pikes and such. And even then, only when the attacks are not held.

Chambering is nice, but as soon as the opponent starts holding their attacks a bit, you're as good as dead. :)

I suck at it though.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Xant on January 10, 2012, 05:41:22 pm: Quote from: Phazey on January 10, 2012, 05:29:01 pm
Chambering is nice, but as soon as the opponent starts holding their attacks a bit, you're as good as dead. :)

tell that to kpubopyoyopypoyka, he didn't get the memo
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Fartface on January 11, 2012, 01:16:12 pm: Dont get 1hander.
Because i finaly learned to chamber feints , then i figured that even after the chamber most plain simple outreach you or just block.
It isn't realy worth the risk imo.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Paul on January 11, 2012, 07:17:12 pm: Get the heaviest guantlets and punch people on the duel server. Good way to learn chambering and even better to master spamming.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Cup1d on January 11, 2012, 07:28:20 pm: Can you chamber thrust with kick?

Also Paul, can you implement more damage with kick while you wear heavier foot armor?
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Paul on January 11, 2012, 08:11:55 pm: I wanted to add boot weight extra damage along with the gauntlet stuff but it was vetoed down by the other devs/balancers. Might be to powerful, they have a point there.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Xant on January 11, 2012, 08:19:03 pm: I don't think kickslash needs a buff with boot extra damage, to be honest. Already the most powerful move.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: MrShine on January 11, 2012, 08:24:34 pm: Quote from: Paul on January 11, 2012, 08:11:55 pm
I wanted to add boot weight extra damage along with the gauntlet stuff but it was vetoed down by the other devs/balancers. Might be to powerful, they have a point there.

I think the awesome factor overrides any balance issues that might come from extra boot damage.
Title: Re: Learning Chambering
Post by: Teeth on January 15, 2012, 02:51:07 pm: Quote from: Paul on January 11, 2012, 07:17:12 pm
Get the heaviest guantlets and punch people on the duel server. Good way to learn chambering and even better to master spamming.
What is the damage stat for a heavy gauntlets punch with 7 PS these days? Or is the punch damage not influenced by PS or str at all?