cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 02, 2012, 10:49:58 am
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In short: I hate it.
I never had any problems with the old system: I got into the weaker team for one map, then into the stronger the next. Some times x1 for several rounds, but also very often long x5 strikes. And I had allways fun trying to do good despite being on the weaker team. And sometimes even the supposed weaker team could surprise the other by a change of tactic (read: change running direction).
That is gone with the new system, you get switched all the time and - like in siege - you will be glad to have x5 for one or maximum two rounds. What makes this worse is that you no longer know which player is on your side and I also get confused on which spawn I start. Before the patch (after the first round) you knew: ah there is this extreme good cav on the enemy team, have an eye on him. Or there is this guy to stick with, and so on. Now that is totally gone, and when I get switched 4 times on 1 map I don't even bother to think on which side I am and where I go, just charge and be done.
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Yea too much team switchs really doesn't promote team play.
At least when you loose 2-3 time in a row people start to use their brain and try to adapt, but when you get teamswitch every two round or so there is no adapting just mindless rushs.
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Ok so I played over 2 hours this morning. I got once to x3 x4 and then it ended. Couple times I saw x2 (for one round before it ended because I was switched to losing side again) but that's all. Yesterday included and previous gaming, after patch I have seen x5 only 2 times and at that time it lasted for 1-2 rounds max. (and it's not like I havent been playing much, over 10h easily)
It's time to increase given exp per tick or reduce needed exp for lvl 31.
And... how you can manage any teamwork? Normally people have been talking in chat and planning where to charge/camp next round. Now... you never know which team/side you are playing next round as it seems to do rebalance every round. This is total randomness now and to put it simply: It sucks. Sure there's some good points there, but as it seems x1 and x2 is most common multies now, exp we gain is WAY too low.
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In fact a long time ago I even suggested to make only one or two balance checks in siege as well, because I had no more fun with the constant switching. I stopped playing it because of that. Now what they do? They confuse it all and make battle balance work like in siege. :rolleyes:
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Totally agree. This needs to be changed as the way it was before. Every round swap-swap-swap x1-x2-x1-x2...
Old system was good as it was. Sometimes there were long x1 games but also there were rewarding x5 moments.
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Amusingly enough this autobalance has given me more 5x rows than the old system did. Less of those horrible 30min 1x games.
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New autobalance Is good. Now no 5/4 or 5/3 every map anymore. everyone has chances. But Banner balance really makes one team suck now if there is a full faction in the other.
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Banner balance now sucks.. get teamswitched all the time and many more maps go to 9 rounds..
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Some maps I get team switched every round. Others I get team switched once. However, I have yet to play a map with no team switching at all. It is rather annoying and a bit silly.
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It's almost impossible to get over x2 now unless lucky, and as stated above it's impossible to know what players are on what team, or even organize a change in tactics between rounds.
The old system wasn't perfect, but it's better than what we've got now.
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Was a bit over the top. I thought that, with the new refined banner balance, I could trigger it every round while keeping the teams the same. That didn't really work, but it shouldn't be a problem, the advantage of the new banner balance should still be noticeable even when disabling this.
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I'm used to having long streaks of x1. However actually getting to x5 for a round or two counters that very well. To be stuck at x1 and x2 however means you'll never get neither enough money to pay for a decent (30k) outfit, nor get xp to get a new level this side of next new year.
The banner-balance should definitely make sure not to put too large groups of the same banner onto the same team, unless there can be a large group put into the opposite team as well. If not possible the large group of clan members *should* be split up to balance teams organization-wise.
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In short: I hate it.
I never had any problems with the old system: I got into the weaker team for one map, then into the stronger the next. Some times x1 for several rounds, but also very often long x5 strikes. And I had allways fun trying to do good despite being on the weaker team. And sometimes even the supposed weaker team could surprise the other by a change of tactic (read: change running direction).
That is gone with the new system, you get switched all the time and - like in siege - you will be glad to have x5 for one or maximum two rounds. What makes this worse is that you no longer know which player is on your side and I also get confused on which spawn I start. Before the patch (after the first round) you knew: ah there is this extreme good cav on the enemy team, have an eye on him. Or there is this guy to stick with, and so on. Now that is totally gone, and when I get switched 4 times on 1 map I don't even bother to think on which side I am and where I go, just charge and be done.
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I think the new system team-switches too much.
It is funny when two clans are the majority of a server, and the balance just switches the clans every round.
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The idea is awesome. You get to play with your friends. It should be based on PIN or something like that instead of banner though to avoid banner leeching :D
But yeah, there are too many swaps right now at least for a player without a huge pile of friends.
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Shit don't work plz fix... :rolleyes:
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Yesterday, playing with the Chaos banner, I was switched to the opposite team, then back onto theirs, then again the opposite team, and lastly back onto theirs. This repeated for several maps.
Also, it seems as though you get balanced more whenever you're higher up on the scoreboard, so doing well is not rewarded anymore, but punishable by being teamswitched to the losing team. The only hope you have is that you can kill as many enemy players as possible to help your team before you go down. Sadly, some rounds are bad and you end up not getting but 1-2 kills, and your team ends up losing to the 15 enemies still alive.
Overall verdict of Reinhardt: Hate it. Too much switching.
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I don't care for 1x or 5x, but getting switched EVERY round just sucks. It's totally confusing when spawn changes every round and it destroys even the last bit of teamplay as you never know on which team you'll be and who will be on your team. Please fix that!
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The constant switching is a pain.
Old system was much more fun, if yr team sucked, it would get some help, but the point isn't for it to get shuffled so randomly you end up winning every other round.
I suggest:
- old system (1 big shuffle, small later adjustments)
- change so that later adjustments are banner prioritized (i.e. if say old system decided that 1 lvl 30 guy needs to go to team B, it will favor a lvl 30 who's banner matches team B's members)
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"Oh god, I can't abuse the balancing like in the old system, it actually does something against team/clan stacking behaviour."
It's funny to see people cry about it.
While I agree that it switches a bit much, and still gives unbalanced teams, something had to be done, even if it's not a polished move.
Your typical "older was better" argument is a joke. Autobalance is broken, only those who milked the x5 for many, many hours will go against this with everything they've got. Selfish bastards.
Also the banner "leeching" stuff is the most disgusting, low life "strategy" I have ever seen in this mod. It's just.. awful.
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"Oh god, I can't abuse the balancing like in the old system, it actually does something against team/clan stacking behaviour."
It's funny to see people cry about it.
While I agree that it switches a bit much, something had to be done, even if it's not a polished move.
Your typical "older was better" argument is a joke. Autobalance is broken, only those who milked the x5 for many, many hours will go against this with everything they've got. Selfish bastards.
did you even read my post? And I sure as hell don't use the older was better argument, I like changes and almost every patch they did. Plus I'm not in any clan or switched my banner ever.
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did you even read my post? And I sure as hell don't use the older was better argument, I like changes and almost every patch they did. Plus I'm not in any clan or switched my banner ever.
I did.
It was meant to be a general answer to what I see on the forums, not a direct answer to the OP.
I just cba to quote everyone who said such stuff.
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I did.
It was meant to be a general answer to what I see on the forums, not a direct answer to the OP.
I just cba to quote everyone who said such stuff.
As I see it in this thread most people complain about mixing the teams up every new round. Its not all about x5, its just less fun if there are no constant teams.
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I love it, Was actually able to play siege with the entire clan yesterday (9 or 10 of us) We lost a few times, But was great to be able to play as a group for once, rather than being split in between and switched EVERY round, made talking in TS odd when you never want to talk about your plans when the other side will know what your about to do. I agree getting moved around is anoying, But worth it. If anything this should promote clan growth and teamplay. Not trying to milk X5 (tho nice as it is). I wouldn't even care if I was stuck on x1 for a month, the fact that I was able to play with all the clan mates was the most fun I have had in a long time =)
Thanks chadz =)
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As I see it in this thread most people complain about mixing the teams up every new round. Its not all about x5, its just less fun if there are no constant teams.
This is where it helps to play with clan mates.. There is no better team organization than that. If your angry about always getting moved and playing with different players, Join or group up with a clan that you can play with regardless of how many times your moved, a random banner getting dossed around is annoying, But when 5,6,7 or what ever banners of the same colour get moved, Your still playing with the same group and you might find it more enjoyable then.
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Yeah it's pretty bad, I get switched to the losing team every other round and the only way I can keep an x5 is carrying my team to the win.
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It does not bother me in the least.
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And... multi also matters. If it takes ridiculous amount of time to reach 30 -> 31, players will stop playing. So yeah we don't care if we don't get x5 for several hours in row, but we care if we have to grind weeks to gain one level.
Sure guys telling it doesnt matter are already gen 50 with old system when it was piss easy to get exp and they don't need more gens anymore but not all of us are like that.
But worst thing was lack of teamwork. Before patch is was bad already and even more worse after. So saying that "older was better" is just right at this point. "New" doesn't always mean better than old.
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Haven't had chance to play yet, but i usually get teamswitched all the time to the losing team anyway, so this can't be any worse for me at least...
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x1 x2 x1 x2 x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2x1 x2 x1 x2.................
Mod is I>ead unless your roleplaying some peasant in rags :?
Also fuck having retired so many times now that its gonna take 254325435435 billion weeks to become lvl 35 i wish i had stuck with a build rather then trying out random builds...
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should have said, I'm talking battle. Don't know what changed in siege.
but chadz already confirmed it was overdone, so lets see what he comes up with...
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PIN balance pls
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/voteban New_Autobalance
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I like it, any change to Auto-Team-Balance a step forward in the right direction, not saying it is perfect as it is now obviously it still need some adjustments but chadz is working on it as he described in this thread.
Auto team balance has always been a major issue in Mount&Blade, so anything to tweak, play around, change, whatever to make auto team balance work properly.
Bring on change! :wink:
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Just to bring up a point of discussion, do the matches for maps actually have to be "balanced"? Can you balance teams and multis for players across two or three maps but have each map be best out of 3 or 5 or just a set 4 matches? Maybe a minor tweaking after the first round if one team just gets completely steam-rolled with most of the opposing team still alive?
Maybe it's because I "fly solo" but the only problem I've had with team balancing is the idea that both "teams" have to be close to winning the arbitrary 5 rounds? From what I've gathered if the community, devs, admins, etc. want this mod to be team oriented maybe try to implement a system where I get to play with the rando' again that fought back-to-back with me versus many.
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it just needs to be somewhere between the new and old systems.
old system led to lots of 5-0 sweeps, this one drags out matches for ages and shuffles up players too much. right in the middle will be best.
also, if the server can judge a player's value based on their all-time K/D ratio instead of just what they did on the first round it will be better at balancing to begin with.
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my take on this now when there is multiple clans balance actually try to split them on different sides which is awesome !
But something make me /nerdraging , i have been on defense non stop for like 16 rounds ( not counting the first round because you can actually choose )
the shuffle need to count the numbers of times you have been on offense and defense and switch you accordingly ( dont know if that's possible... )
This only affect siege of course
beside that its a great step in the right direction i love it :o
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it just needs to be somewhere between the new and old systems.
old system led to lots of 5-0 sweeps, this one drags out matches for ages and shuffles up players too much. right in the middle will be best.
also, if the server can judge a player's value based on their all-time K/D ratio instead of just what they did on the first round it will be better at balancing to begin with.
I disagree. I love 5-0 sweeps, more on the winning side of course, but even on the loosing side playing against the odds is fun.
To your second point, how do you know how it is working? I don't think current performance counts much.
On another note the xp is really an issue other than I thought first. Overall income is much lower.
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The xp and money gains have dropped a lot indeed. That's bad. Heirloom prices will ramp up, leveling will become more frustrating and worst of all, people who don't have a shitton of money will start playing in even lower end gear.
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I've been winning a lot more lately.. More money and multiplier then ever, actually.
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I've been winning a lot more lately.. More money and multiplier then ever, actually.
you must be playing another game.
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I've been winning a lot more lately.. More money and multiplier then ever, actually.
You are very lucky then.
If you manage to be good with this system, it will bounce you around mostly with other skilled players, so you will dominate, no matter the team. I had x5 streaks like that.
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New autobalancer really kills teamplay.
Getting bounced around every round to different spawns and teams promote individualism greatly.
I like following good players and helping them out, thats teamplay for me. Constant teamswitching kills that so badly.
I preferred the older autobalancer more. Stability was better even when losing.
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If you are breaking the 1st round autobalance like Greys do, you will be rewarded with NEVER getting switched to defense.
I hope they fix this before they are all level 35 soon.
While we wait, these guys are taking about 2,5 millions xp a day.
So THAT's what's going on. I've been noticing since the patch that my clan has been stuck on Defense 99% of the time while other clans are constantly on Offense.
Not sure exactly how that's happening but it's a neat trick...
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I was switching sides every round on Sunday night when I was playing with my bro. He was wearing a banner of a large group of players and was almost always on the same side. Me being the only one in the server with my banner was being moved literally every round from one team and then back. Hard to keep a multiplier or build any sort of "teamwork" when it's constantly being switched.
I personally didn't like the old system that much where everything was determined off the first round (which would cause some pretty unbalanced teams). I think it needed to even up teams once in a while mid-map (more than it did). But that being said, I think most maps are relatively balanced, unlike siege maps so in theory any side can win any round. I just want the ability to be able to carry a multiplier for a longer period, and being switched (literally every single round) makes it hard to do that.
If I had to choose I'd say to back to the old balance system. And while we're at it, maybe try to even out the classes so it's about even on both teams. In the past I noticed it seemed like ranged and cav would be much higher on one team than the other.
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Exactly this. If you want to keep high multipliers your best chance is a) banner whoring or b) legitimately using that banner with a reason. That way you'll get balanced with a bunch of good players instead of randomly thrown between teams.
It does depend on server makeup though what banner is good if any.
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Ello:
0000050
[cRPG] Autobalance shuffles teams only at the end of round 1 in battle gamemode
Warband - multiplayer - [ingame] - 2012-01-03 14:54
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I agree 100%. This new auto balance is terrible. Please change it back ASAP.
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It is a bit too much. :(
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chadz plz revert it all ready plz but nice try n all..... :rolleyes:
PS: love the new tk/tw system.
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This actually works really well if you're playing with quite a few clan mates, as i was always switched and had to fight against my clan mates, but no more, but if there aren't many of you, it can become rather frustrating...
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This actually works really well if you're playing with quite a few clan mates, as i was always switched and had to fight against my clan mates, but no more, but if there aren't many of you, it can become rather frustrating...
jup
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For the first time since upkeep began I played for a day and lost money at the end of it, since I no longer had any streak past 4x, I like being rewarded for being an asset to my team at the end of a round by staying on the team I helped win, now it feels like a flip of the coin. I think some compromise between the two systems can be reached, dont you?
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The valour system needs to be reworked, that way if you get switched you have a good chance of keeping your multi, right now, kill 10 people in a round, no valour, teamkill someone and die, valour, makes perfect sense... :shock:
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This needs to be fixed asap. Had to throw on a clan banner for the first time today, otherwise I was just sitting at 1-2x and getting teamswitched every other round.
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This needs to be fixed asap. Had to throw on a clan banner for the first time today, otherwise I was just sitting at 1-2x and getting teamswitched every other round.
This pretty much... people before clan banner was optional now your forced to banner whore if you don't have 4-6 clan mates on the same server kinda lama if you ask me...
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nothing of this was changed. The only thing that was changed was that, the 2 biggest banner 'blocks' can't end up on the same side anymore - instead, the biggest one is team1, the 2nd biggest one team2, or vice versa.
All what you described was unchanged.
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nothing of this was changed. The only thing that was changed was that, the 2 biggest banner 'blocks' can't end up on the same side anymore - instead, the biggest one is team1, the 2nd biggest one team2, or vice versa.
All what you described was unchanged.
Not sure if it's a side effect of this or what, but people are definitely getting switched more often. It's normal now to get switched every other, or even every round.
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The almost every round switch might be annoying, but on other side, not bad to have x5 for whole duration of 4-3 result map :mrgreen:
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This was fixed with the latest patch.
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nothing of this was changed. The only thing that was changed was that, the 2 biggest banner 'blocks' can't end up on the same side anymore - instead, the biggest one is team1, the 2nd biggest one team2, or vice versa.
All what you described was unchanged.
thats odd. I think I use one of the most rarely used banners (white diagonal axe, some US-clan uses it) and I am 100% sure that before patch I had about a 50% chance to get switched on the second round and a very small chance to get switched one more time. Since the patch however I get switched four times minimum each map.
Also I see every round 5-10 people switched. Before patch it was 1-2 max after the second round.
And it is very noticable on xp income, leveling takes much more time for me though this is not my main issue.
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very good new ballance, good work
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very good new ballance, good work
From the posts here it seems it is good for clans and bad for everyone else, but why is the question.
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I hadn't even noticed there was a new balance...
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I love this new balance. Always on the team with the other Byzantiums! 8-)
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i love new balance ;] you can play with your teammates most of the time
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- If there is only one "big banner block" on server it will always remain on one side - mostly attackers on siege
Been noticing this alot. If there's 3-4 of my clan online, but more people from another clan is also on simultaneously, we end up on Defense about 99% of the time.
If there's only 1-2 of us on, we'll swap back n' forth between Defense/Offense no problem. But it clearly seems that the more numbers you have, favors putting you on the attack almost every round. Which of course is a huge advantage in siege 'usually.'
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I played a little bit earlier this morning and the map was ruins and it was going swimmingly at 2-3 until I was put on a team with one other dude vs. 25ish for three rounds.
On the final round I hid in a bush for a couple minutes naked. One guy basically brushed past my nude form before completely missing me.
Am I a leecher?
Edit: I hope someone who was playing that morning will come to confirm this because the print screen shot I took came up as a blank image for some reason. I thought it was amusing more then anything else but I hope a dev or someone will look into that.
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I think the actual balance is better than it was before; however, I just think that there should be ways to minimize the mass team switching. Switching is necessary sometimes for balance, but I think the current balancer just switches way too much. Once that's settled, it will be good.
I also get map fatigue now that each map goes to 4-5 or 3-5.
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New balance needs more tweaks please. Makes the game unfun when you swap so many times. If your team is losing you should be motivated to play better, not just feel like you don't give a shit because you will swap soon anyway, or someone else will win the round for you. To me constant balancing makes the issue of team play worse because people's attitudes towards the rounds become short sighted or apathetic. I got swapped 5 times in 1 map just now. The map before that 4 or 5.
How about a cap on the amount of times a single player can be swapped? Or do the banner balance once so that the majority from the 2 big blocks are separate then leave it alone.
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Overall I think the balance is better in that maps go a lot longer so different sides tend to win more.
Side effect is I am still noticing a lot of team ping pong for myself... I've been bounced as much as 4 times in a row to the opposite team, as recent as today and last night after I downloaded the patch.
Still, it seems to be balancing a bit better at least, a lot fewer 5-0 map rolls.
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Overall I think the balance is better in that maps go a lot longer so different sides tend to win more.
Side effect is I am still noticing a lot of team ping pong for myself... I've been bounced as much as 4 times in a row to the opposite team, as recent as today and last night after I downloaded the patch.
Still, it seems to be balancing a bit better at least, a lot fewer 5-0 map rolls.
yeah and thats the questionable thing for me. Whats the point in teambalancing if it kicks in every round? balanced teams means for me that there are two roughly equal teams having both a chance of winning and trying to do so of course. Now the interesting part begins if one team wins a couple of rounds and what the "weaker" team means to do about it. Will it give up? will it change "tactics"? As well as the other team, before last patch I often noticed the superior team became sloppy and suddenly loosed.
With the current balance we have more 4-3 map results, yes. But this not more than a meaningless number, because every team change every round. So each individual and each clan sits in his own boat swapping teams and don't care with whom and against what there are fighting. It all becomes more meaningless.
Thats why I bolded "different sides" in your post. Different sides currently are the titles on score board, e.g. team red and team purple, but it says nothing whatsoever about two sides of players.
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yeah and thats the questionable thing for me. Whats the point in teambalancing if it kicks in every round? balanced teams means for me that there are two roughly equal teams having both a chance of winning and trying to do so of course. Now the interesting part begins if one team wins a couple of rounds and what the "weaker" team means to do about it. Will it give up? will it change "tactics"? As well as the other team, before last patch I often noticed the superior team became sloppy and suddenly loosed.
With the current balance we have more 4-3 map results, yes. But this not more than a meaningless number, because every team change every round. So each individual and each clan sits in his own boat swapping teams and don't care with whom and against what there are fighting. It all becomes more meaningless.
Thats why I bolded "different sides" in your post. Different sides currently are the titles on score board, e.g. team red and team purple, but it says nothing whatsoever about two sides of players.
Exactly. Team scores look more even, but generally what's been happening is the biggest clan group is winning (as they did before), the difference is they switch sides now and so it looks like it's more even. Additionally what this means for the non-clan people is that rather than how before where if you got put on the clan team you could get up to a 3x, 4x or even 5x and actually get some good exp and gold, you'll be on the clan team, then off, then on, then off, etc. This results in larger clans still keeping x5 constantly, but rather than having the non-clan or small clan people get decent multipliers every other map, they all sit at 1x and 2x.
edit: Just something else I'd like to add. Teamswitching constantly makes it impossible to form any kind of counter to the other team's strategy. For example, last night got a map where the other team had 2 cav that were steamrolling our team, so I grab my longspear... and got switched to the cav team. Or another where one team kept camping a roof, so we grab ladders to get up to them, and half our team gets switched and we have no ladders.
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Looks like the servers weren't actually patched :)
Give it a try now, both siege and battle.
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Looks like the servers weren't actually patched :)
:D lulz
edit: everything fine now on battle. all the fuzz about it :P
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switched a LOT more.
x5 for one or maximum two rounds
Team switches so much u hardly can develop a strategy for handling the opposing team like before.
Before the patch (after the first round) you knew: ah there is this extreme good cav on the enemy team, have an eye on him. Or there is this guy to stick with, and so on. Now that is totally gone, and when I get switched 4 times on 1 map I don't even bother to think on which side I am and where I go, just charge and be done.
Maps last very often to 6+ rounds because of constant losses switches. Not enjoyable to drag out the game like this.
Some swings sweem slower too... are we gonna just make all weapons to the same thing same speed? no challenge?
Simpler solution would be to NOT mess with the weapons constantly, but make leveling a little faster. Then ppl wouldnt be low level as long and the diff would be more the level of a persons skill. I loved the old system of being able to get to 40s in level. Even as a peasant it was like "ON NO!" here comes the boss... but taking them down was awesome. And it gave u something to really work for. Now when u get 31... u might as well just regen/repeasant urself. Going beyond 32 just... eh.
Please don't take away all the variety in the game. Thats what makes it challenging and the enjoyment lasts longer.
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Exactly. Team scores look more even, but generally what's been happening is the biggest clan group is winning (as they did before), the difference is they switch sides now and so it looks like it's more even. Additionally what this means for the non-clan people is that rather than how before where if you got put on the clan team you could get up to a 3x, 4x or even 5x and actually get some good exp and gold, you'll be on the clan team, then off, then on, then off, etc. This results in larger clans still keeping x5 constantly, but rather than having the non-clan or small clan people get decent multipliers every other map, they all sit at 1x and 2x.
edit: Just something else I'd like to add. Teamswitching constantly makes it impossible to form any kind of counter to the other team's strategy. For example, last night got a map where the other team had 2 cav that were steamrolling our team, so I grab my longspear... and got switched to the cav team. Or another where one team kept camping a roof, so we grab ladders to get up to them, and half our team gets switched and we have no ladders.
*blushes* ah thanks!
all kidding aside, that last long spear kill you had on me last night was only because I was logging off for the night, I never would have rode through there otherwise :)
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switched a LOT more.
x5 for one or maximum two rounds
Team switches so much u hardly can develop a strategy for handling the opposing team like before.
Before the patch (after the first round) you knew: ah there is this extreme good cav on the enemy team, have an eye on him. Or there is this guy to stick with, and so on. Now that is totally gone, and when I get switched 4 times on 1 map I don't even bother to think on which side I am and where I go, just charge and be done.
Maps last very often to 6+ rounds because of constant losses switches. Not enjoyable to drag out the game like this.
Some swings sweem slower too... are we gonna just make all weapons to the same thing same speed? no challenge?
Simpler solution would be to NOT mess with the weapons constantly, but make leveling a little faster. Then ppl wouldnt be low level as long and the diff would be more the level of a persons skill. I loved the old system of being able to get to 40s in level. Even as a peasant it was like "ON NO!" here comes the boss... but taking them down was awesome. And it gave u something to really work for. Now when u get 31... u might as well just regen/repeasant urself. Going beyond 32 just... eh.
Please don't take away all the variety in the game. Thats what makes it challenging and the enjoyment lasts longer.
hell of a post.
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I find the new autobalance annoying as hell as it feels like I'm being thrown to a different side every round and there is no sense of team. With the old system you had a 50/50 chance of getting a x5, but now it seems like its a 0% chance as you are switched to a different side each time. Its really bad on siege as some maps are overly unfair to offense or defense depending on map.
I don't mind being on the losing side as long as its consistent.
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mh, me thinks autobalance starts being an independent existance and does what it wants.
I only played two hours since chadz said to check again and in that two hours I switched 1-2 times maximum per map, was very good to play again.
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The current autobalance seems rather close to the old. It might be a placebo effect but teams in general are slightly more balanced and 5-0 win streaks are a bit rarer tho.
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The current autobalance seems rather close to the old. It might be a placebo effect but teams in general are slightly more balanced and 5-0 win streaks are a bit rarer tho.
The autobalance system is clearly fucked up. The way it balances (at least I've noticed) is that when one side is winning, it will throw everyone that's good onto the other side and that side will completely dominate the round.
As an example, one side was easily winning the map then the round ended and it switched teams around. The team that was winning had 3 people with 7 for kills, and the rest of the team had 3, 2 and 1 kills. The other side had the first three people with 15 kills, and the rest of the team all had almost double the kills of the previous winning team. If you looked at the scoreboard it was obvious the autobalance just put all the people getting kills on the team it wanted to "make stronger". Of course the team that had been losing won the round easily.
Autobalance doesn't mean when one side is losing you switch people over so they can't lose. It means making both sides about equally balanced. I think the equation is basically just trying to keep the wins and losses of both sides about even, and not actually trying to make both sides "as equal as possible".
Also to the one posting about siege balance, it's always been that way where it will switch you from attackers to defenders (usually at least once per map) so it's hard to keep a multiplier going because the maps are very unbalanced. Most siege maps have a clear advantage for the attackers or defenders.
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The autobalance is very good, and very clever.. Still think it could be moar clever though, but that would require research into following areas and quite a lot of guesswork on top of that.
Why I think x5 Rolls happen are several factors:
1. Map imbalances (They are not symmetrical, they are not thoroughly playtested for balance etc. etc..)
2. People quit when they loose their x.
3. More people quit when they get on a loosing team (And the autobalance doesn't have a chance to react because people quit after they spawn..)
4. Players from Winning Team gets shifted to loosing team, but they have to "Learn the map" from the other side from scratch. I often get switched and try a flanking run just to find I run into some cav highway, archer nest or just die from some xbower who has been hiding in the same bush for 5 rounds. (Which I didn't know because I was on his team) (This could be fixed by removing some weighting from a switched player the first round he is switched)
5. Class imbalance.. Dunno if this is now rectified though.
It is certainly not because the "Best" players are all on one team.. At least not with half full or full server.
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mh, me thinks autobalance starts being an independent existance and does what it wants.
I only played two hours since chadz said to check again and in that two hours I switched 1-2 times maximum per map, was very good to play again.
Hrm.... In my last game on NA_1 server I was switched every round during an entire game of battle. I got 2x twice and then got switched to the losing team.
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The autobalance is very good, and very clever.. Still think it could be moar clever though, but that would require research into following areas and quite a lot of guesswork on top of that.
Why I think x5 Rolls happen are several factors:
1. Map imbalances (They are not symmetrical, they are not thoroughly playtested for balance etc. etc..)
2. People quit when they loose their x.
3. More people quit when they get on a loosing team (And the autobalance doesn't have a chance to react because people quit after they spawn..)
4. Players from Winning Team gets shifted to loosing team, but they have to "Learn the map" from the other side from scratch. I often get switched and try a flanking run just to find I run into some cav highway, archer nest or just die from some xbower who has been hiding in the same bush for 5 rounds. (Which I didn't know because I was on his team) (This could be fixed by removing some weighting from a switched player the first round he is switched)
5. Class imbalance.. Dunno if this is now rectified though.
It is certainly not because the "Best" players are all on one team.. At least not with half full or full server.
Another big one is that people start using cheaper equipment when they're losing, and the winning team will start using their best equipment. When people feel their team is on a roll they also can start playing more aggressively and launch strong attacks together
Maybe x1 multi is too low for people? Could be better to have more gold given at low multi but still keep a good incentive for people to play as a team and win rounds
Personally though I prefer to get stuck with x1 multi sometimes rather than have teams juggled around too much. Better x1 multi wouldn't be unwelcome tho :)
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Last couple days for me it have been different than after "new system" was introduced. Before I used to get switched all the time and it kept it nicely balanced (by doing lot's of annoying switching sure) but now it feels just same as old system was before. I might get switched once after first round and not once after that. And often... I see 5-0, 4-1 situations again like it used to be.
Did they change it back to old? I can't notice any difference here. At least balance-wise it's same, other team dominating most of rounds.
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It is certainly not because the "Best" players are all on one team.. At least not with half full or full server.
And you're factually wrong, and I can tell you that because I've experienced and witnessed it multiple times. It's usually most prevalent on the 2nd or 3rd round. If team 1 wins, and team 2 loses the first round I've witnessed a lot of times where the teams get divided into team 2 getting all the players who have the most kills, and team 1 getting the players who have a lot less kills. I've seen where team 2 had at least 40-50 kills total, and team 1 had under 20.
My point is that I think the algorithm being used only tries to make it so that team 1 and team 2 have equal number of wins each round. I don't think it's making an effort to keep the teams equally balanced, i think it's only trying to keep the wins equal. Which leads to some really unbalanced teams (if only for a round).
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I played for about 4 hours nonstop on eu1 tonight, except for the first banner-related switch after the first round on a map I was never ever switched from one team to another. I was always one of the best concerning kill/death ratio, and I was on x5 mostly. Bam.
Do you use a banner alot of other people use?
I'm usually the only person on the server with my banner and I am switched almost every round (whether my team wins or loses) and it makes it incredibly hard to keep a multiplier.
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Do you use a banner alot of other people use?
I'm usually the only person on the server with my banner
Wat? Hmm, this must be rather new.
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Wat? Hmm, this must be rather new.
Not really.. most LLJK except me and Smoothrich only play Strategus and not cRPG itself.
And when too many LLJK come online I switch to a different banner anyway :P
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And when too many LLJK come online I switch to a different banner anyway :P
A decision most wise :lol:
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before i felt like i spent about 50/50 winning and being on the team getting stomped, now it's more 10% winning, 90% getting destroyed. used to make money at a decent rate, now i seem to lose it, and it's not like i've suddenly become a lot worse.
one positive thing i can say is it seems like there's less of a cav/ranged "stack" problem
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Personally I think ppl needa big boost of aggression in their playstyles.
Been on x1 for 3 rounds? Time to stop hiding behind a wall and charge.
Sometimes it fails and you're still on x1, but round is shorter and so less chance of repairs.
Sometimes it works, and it feels awesome.
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Personally I think ppl needa big boost of aggression in their playstyles.
Been on x1 for 3 rounds? Time to stop hiding behind a wall and charge.
Sometimes it fails and you're still on x1, but round is shorter and so less chance of repairs.
Sometimes it works, and it feels awesome.
this a thousand times. noobcharge can be very successfull, especially on small maps directly at enemy spawn.
Another thing I never saw happen but 100% sure it would be work would be to wait with the whole team at the own spawn, wait for cav and kill them first, then the others. Most people seem to think 10 cavs cannot be beaten by 40 men on foot, but if you expect them its less then a problem.
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Personally I think ppl needa big boost of aggression in their playstyles.
Been on x1 for 3 rounds? Time to stop hiding behind a wall and charge.
Sometimes it fails and you're still on x1, but round is shorter and so less chance of repairs.
Sometimes it works, and it feels awesome.
The problem is when you are always team switched every round, there is no sense of team cohesiveness or learning the opponents strength and weaknesses because you are being thrown into a different group each time.
On the old system I remember being on the losing team and then someone finally everyone god fed up and decided to do something drastically different like charge a certain way or run to the left or right. It happened a lot.
Now its all just random and people get no sense of their own team, much less the enemy.
I mean its awesome when you meet the same person on the field in battle over and over again sometimes to duel it out, but now you end up on their team half the time without getting to "know" the enemy.
Also I see something that makes the whole point of autobalance useless....
Just today I was switched to teams each round and each time, the team I was on lost. Isn't the point to make it so that both teams have x1 all the time? Then the team I was on won and I was auto switched again and that team lost. Back to x1.
I don't mind losing or being on the underdog team, its just that the new autobalance is annoying when you are trying to get a sense of a battle. If you play CRPG long enough anyways you will play on both sides of a map so why force it so often?