cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stabby_Dave on December 27, 2011, 11:56:20 am
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This may not be a popular suggestion but I feel we need some kind of a gold sink like increased upkeep. The market prices have steadily got higher and higher over the past few months and while everyone expects that the 'bubble will burst', I just dont feel this will happen anymore.
The average player always earns more than they spend on upkeep. Only those wearing consistently heavy armour with high end weapons dont make money while playing and as a result, the total amount of money in the economy continues to grow - hence the continually rising prices.
'So what?' you say. Well, for the player that's been around for months and months this does not matter all that much. They already have looms to trade and sell at the inflated prices so don't really lose out with these prices. However, while there is more cash floating around, you still earn it at the same rate, meaning new players are at a bit of a disadvantage when it comes to acquiring looms in ways other than retirement.
Solutions:
1) Increase Upkeep
2) Charge for character respecc's
3) Charge to be able to skip the fun early (Amount would increase according to how long until your next 'free' STF.
Discuss and/or suggest others.
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keep increasing upkeep and you'll see a lot less players in servers
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Hence the other suggestions also.
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I don't think the prices are that bad for new players. I started the game in September and sold the two loom points I earned and bought a +3 awlpike with the money. If new players sell their loom points, the gold inflation doesn't really matter as much.
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*Charge for heirlooms exchange :P
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1) Increase Upkeep
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Not everyone borthers to retire an sell loom point you know :?:
Some people just play casual increasing upkeep would hurt em alot
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Not everyone borthers to retire an sell loom point you know :?:
Some people just play casual increasing upkeep would hurt em alot
I concur.
I'm one of those people.
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Not everyone borthers to retire an sell loom point you know :?:
Some people just play casual increasing upkeep would hurt em alot
Not retiring isnt casual. Its for the hardcore players who seek to get an advantage over everyone else with their high level.
Sorry back on track, I agree with the OP, but if an increase of upkeep (I know this isnt your only solution, but its the only one that is fair and will work) makes people quit, then I dont really think its worth it :(
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Increase upkeep and increase the gain of every genaration .
You will retire quicker will have more money after a while but you have more xp :D maybe that sounds good.
For the guys who are gen 16 or summmet its a advantage.Then they gain much money buy stuff on Market and everyone is happy about reapair and xp gain per genaration.
(Hope you understand ma English)
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A cap on gold a player can have. Problem solved.
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Why is it always noobs that complain?
Since this game has started every patch caters to new players... time to start thinking about the dedicated ones that have been around and intend to continue playing
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Dear lord increased upkeep even more so we can't buy new items till next christmas anymore?
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Your worrying about nothing.
I thought, "how the hell will I ever get enough money to buy looms?".
I sold my loom point through Frank's reliable loomary where all looms come with a free customary bj, satisfaction guaranteed.
4 Days later I turned it into 150k in the bank and 2 looms on my back.
All anyone has to do to get REAL skin in the game is get to gen 2 and sell the loom point. THAT IS ALL. Then you are in, and you can make money of the prices going up and down.
Some people freak out about the prices of looms on the market. I have 2 up for sale at the moment, one at a some what reasonable price that other at a stupid one. I wish to keep the stupid one but if some one wants to pay 500k for a +1 then they can.
Its really not an issue. Any action taken by the devs at this point to "fix" the situation will only turn a mole hill into a fucking asteroid.
You should not be able to gain enough money through normal play to buy a loom point. The system works.
A gold cap = dumb. To hell with that.
Cheers
FRANK
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Why is it always noobs that complain?
Since this game has started every patch caters to new players... time to start thinking about the dedicated ones that have been around and intend to continue playing
Actually increasing upkeep is a buff to the old players since all the new ones will run around in rags all the time while we have a 2043o1204i3245324 billion $$$$ savings account from the market place an loom selling...
Hence why its allways some market rich gen 324235432 who wants to increase upkeep.. :wink:
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Actually increasing upkeep is a buff to the old players since all the new ones will run around in rags all the time while we have a 2043o1204i3245324 billion $$$$ savings account from the market place an loom selling...
Hence why its allways some market rich gen 324235432 who wants to increase upkeep.. :wink:
I read your words but all I see is boobs.
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Divvy up the chips then... :twisted:
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Getting to heirloom weapaon was never this easy, i had to grind as fuck to earn a mw weapon and have 200k in the bank, now u play 2 gens in rags, plus you dont play upkeep on the first gen till lvl 25, sell 2 loom points and easily have for a +3 item.
Shit has never been easier for the new players, if this is "too Hard" for them maybe this isnt the game for them :wink:
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Ok ok you guys have convinced me everything is fine lol :P
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I am working on making looms easier to get for new players, its going to take a little time though. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,22623.new.html#new
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Not retiring isnt casual. Its for the hardcore players who seek to get an advantage over everyone else with their high level.
Sorry back on track, I agree with the OP, but if an increase of upkeep (I know this isnt your only solution, but its the only one that is fair and will work) makes people quit, then I dont really think its worth it :(
I disagree, the casual player doesn't retire because it will take them a long time to get back to level 30 or 31. Yes some hardcore people stop retiring and become level 32, 33 or 34, but I'm willing to bet that most of them have retired enough times that their main equipment has a lot of looms on items.
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Ideas:
-We need many more expensive helmets/gear etc for people to spend gold on.
-Also some items which are ridiculously priced but you are paying for their looks and status. For example slightly lighter or fancy looking versions of armors which are ridiculously expensive 300,000 gold etc.
-Another idea is to have shop prices change depending on what players are buying. For example the more of an item is bought the more expensive it becomes to buy to simulate scarcity of supply/high demand etc.
-Add new 'squire' feature where you hire a squire for a initial fee and also an ongoing fee which is subtracted from your in game gold every tick. The squire would add the ability of your character to have pre saved gear sets so you can choose quickly between them in battle.
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Ideas:
-We need many more expensive helmets/gear etc for people to spend gold on.
-Also some items which are ridiculously priced but you are paying for their looks and status. For example slightly lighter or fancy looking versions of armors which are ridiculously expensive 300,000 gold etc.
This.
I know that many would buy that 300k plate just to look different than others. Guilds might buy special armours just to be different as well.
Now go out there and do it. Thanks.
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Just sell super expensive items, but they can't be crutchable.
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...but they can't be crutchable.
And in english?
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why care about who have the most gold or most expensive setup in the first place :?:
Cant we just fuckin start playing the fuckin mod all rdy an stop complaining about other players preferred looks or playstyle ect ect.... god....
Not to be a ass licker or brown nose but the devs have done a good job so far an i rly enjoy the game as it is atm..
Only thing im tired of is ladders in battle an slow ass gold an equipment grinding in strat :mrgreen:
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Just sell super expensive items, but they can't be crutchable.
Crutchable? :P
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Crutchable? :P
Relying on it.
Example:
plate knight and ninja peasant fight.
ninja gets 11 hits in with his pitchfork, while knight has 0.
Finally he gets a hit in, and kills the peasant in 1 hit.
IN this case you can say the knight is a armour crutcher, since if he didn't he'd be dead by now.
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Relying on it.
Example:
plate knight and ninja peasant fight.
ninja gets 11 hits in with his pitchfork, while knight has 0.
Finally he gets a hit in, and kills the peasant in 1 hit.
IN this case you can say the knight is a armour crutcher, since if he didn't he'd be dead by now.
An the ninja is agi cruthcing what´s your fuckin point :?: rock paper scissor :?: ......
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An the ninja is agi cruthcing what´s your fuckin point :?: rock paper scissor :?: ......
Exactly, everything is relying on something :P
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I desire the ability to purchase a sink made of gold.
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I am gen 7, I have 150k at the moment and cant buy shit with this money. I have been making almost no money for quite a long time. All I was able to buy at the market after 4 or 5 gens was a light lance + 1. I am not willing to run around almost naked just to make some bucks. So go to hell with your fucking idea :evil:
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I am gen 7, I have 150k at the moment and cant buy shit with this money. I have been making almost no money for quite a long time. All I was able to buy at the market after 4 or 5 gens was a light lance + 1. I am not willing to run around almost naked just to make some bucks. So go to hell with your fucking idea :evil:
This. Not everyone wants to play five generations in rags just to afford actually enjoying the game *after* that. Super-expensive deluxe-items is one thing, but to hell with higher repairs.
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-Add new 'squire' feature where you hire a squire for a initial fee and also an ongoing fee which is subtracted from your in game gold every tick. [snip]
I just read that and thought: cool, why not! In my mind, it would work like this:
Player A), who is rich and got some money to burn, hires player B) to be his personal body guard on the battle and siege mode. How it would work like is this:
For every tick that player B) is near player A), a sum of gold is automatically transferred from player A) to player B). Let's say they set it to 100 gold. That way, for every minute that player B) is guarding player A) and sticking with him on battle mode, he'll get a nice extra paid for by player A).
Just a random thought, but had to share it. I know it's a weird idea, but it might actually work. I'd rather spend my money on other players to stimulate a bit of teamplay than 'waste' it on more gear i don't need. :)
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I am gen 7, I have 150k at the moment and cant buy shit with this money. I have been making almost no money for quite a long time. All I was able to buy at the market after 4 or 5 gens was a light lance + 1. I am not willing to run around almost naked just to make some bucks. So go to hell with your fucking idea :evil:
If prices on the market werent so high maybe you would have been able to afford a masterwork item by now instead of just a +1. I bought a MW item for 600k when the market first came out.
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1)lower upkeep, people have more money -> higher prices of looms
2)higher upkeep, people have less money -> lower price of looms
1)play for x hours, get y gold, loom costs y gold
2) play for x hours, get y gold, loom costs y gold
both yield the same for x and y, thus not changing anything except the gold amount. It doesn't make looms easier to obtain.
IMO, the best way to lower the price of items on the marketplace is raising the xp cap. More experience means more players retiring, more looms, therefore less demand for looms, and less cost of looms on the marketplace.
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Actually increasing upkeep is a buff to the old players since all the new ones will run around in rags all the time while we have a 2043o1204i3245324 billion $$$$ savings account from the market place an loom selling...
Hence why its allways some market rich gen 324235432 who wants to increase upkeep.. :wink:
Ahahaha, whelp that's why landed wealth supports tax increases.
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Upkeep increase on just looms (and then decrease upkeep on non-loomed items) make sense but that will be so unpopular it will never get implemented.
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1) Increase Upkeep
In the current state of things, increasing upkeep will only make the "inflation problem" worse. We have reached the point where people are fed up with high upkeep and will start wearing cheap equipment in case it goes any higher (for the economics-trained reader, equipment cost has a high elasticity towards upkeep), or simply quit the game since in a proper RPG they wouldn't be forced to play as a peasant in rags. Increasing upkeep will actually reduce the sum of everybody's upkeep because people will wear a lot less equipment (proportion of equipment value lost > proportion of upkeep increased).
I'm happy with the current state of the market. Having very high prices for heirloomed stuff is actually balanced because heirlooming is very bad from an ingame perspective. Even without heirloomed equipment, a level 33 is much better on the battlefield than a level 30 with 4 heirlooms. People are not willing to retire, and that increases heirloom prices, for the joy of those that still retire. Tradeoffs. The market balances itself. Slowly, but it does.
The fact that gold inflates is itself a good thing at the current level of inflation. It is not extremely fast, but enough to encourage people to do something with their gold and not letting it rot in a corner.
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Not everyone borthers to retire an sell loom point you know :?:
Some people just play casual increasing upkeep would hurt em alot
How? Because casual players should be able to wear heavier armour than noncasual players?? I dont get it: They arent gonna be charged MORE, and upkeep is not like a subscription fee, you dont have to pay X each month reguardless of how many hours you play, you Pay as you Play.
as to this:
I am gen 7, I have 150k at the moment and cant buy shit with this money. I have been making almost no money for quite a long time. All I was able to buy at the market after 4 or 5 gens was a light lance + 1. I am not willing to run around almost naked just to make some bucks. So go to hell with your fucking idea :evil:
You can play in 20k of gear and make money hand over foot. You can play in 30k worth of gear and make money. You can play WELL in 50k of gear and still make money: Upkeep was thought up to STOP players like you, who want to ride an armoured bear while firing lazer beams from behind their adamantium armour.
I personally would like to see Upkeep rate DOUBLED or TREBLED: I dont have a dragons goldhorde, but as it is its too easy to for me to run around with a greatsword and medium/heavy armour. So it is for everyone else also. All the armour means is that we all use more massive weapons so we can still onehit and feel like bosses. Increasing upkeep would IMPROVE THE GAME, it just might not still be the game that some ppl want, since it seems currently the aim is to buy the heaviest armour your build can wear, strap a mace and a arbalest to your back or grab your greatsword/poleaxe, and spam down the 10 guys plate'n'mail on enemy team, scything thru your teammates with abandon, cause tbh, you dont loose anything for hitting them, so who cares really.
Increase upkeep so it IS effective at stopping the masses of heavy/med armour with huge weapons on horseback, because despite chadz's best efforts the game is veering more and more back to where it was preupkeep: just buy the best you can and wield it all the time.
EDIT: Problem is cavalry, ideally there needs to be 2 upkeep systems, since cavalry are so expensive they need a different equation for horses, because an IDEAL cutoff would be 10K: Over this and your loosing money. Really if you just wanna tank up and be such an epic hero that you cannot make money stupidly fast on current system, I suggest you try singleplayer. Its good.
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So op wants even more people running round in cloth.... this story is one of coolness
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You can play in 20k of gear and make money hand over foot. You can play in 30k worth of gear and make money. You can play WELL in 50k of gear and still make money: Upkeep was thought up to STOP players like you, who want to ride an armoured bear while firing lazer beams from behind their adamantium armour.
Here's the equipment I usually use:
Light Kuyak: well mostly for the looks and cuz its loomed already
Sarranid Veiled Helmet: mostly for the looks - I like full facecovered helmets and cuz I dont wont to get oneshotted off my horse by some roofmonkey through half of the map.
Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail: necessary as cav
Scale Gauntlets: well, that one is loomed too and it was really crippled during last patch like all gauntlets :( and I have the feeling its the gear that gets damaged most
Knightly Heater Shield
Now tell me: Does that already count as heavy armor or is it still medium?
And the weapons I use are far away from high tier weapons:
Light Lance and Short Sword
With that gear I dont make much money... below 2x or 3x I constantly loose money.
EDIT: Problem is cavalry
I am cav! And I only ride a rouncey because of the heavy repairs of all other horses.
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How? Because casual players should be able to wear heavier armour than noncasual players?? I dont get it: They arent gonna be charged MORE, and upkeep is not like a subscription fee, you dont have to pay X each month reguardless of how many hours you play, you Pay as you Play.
as to this:
You can play in 20k of gear and make money hand over foot. You can play in 30k worth of gear and make money. You can play WELL in 50k of gear and still make money: Upkeep was thought up to STOP players like you, who want to ride an armoured bear while firing lazer beams from behind their adamantium armour.
I personally would like to see Upkeep rate DOUBLED or TREBLED: I dont have a dragons goldhorde, but as it is its too easy to for me to run around with a greatsword and medium/heavy armour. So it is for everyone else also. All the armour means is that we all use more massive weapons so we can still onehit and feel like bosses. Increasing upkeep would IMPROVE THE GAME, it just might not still be the game that some ppl want, since it seems currently the aim is to buy the heaviest armour your build can wear, strap a mace and a arbalest to your back or grab your greatsword/poleaxe, and spam down the 10 guys plate'n'mail on enemy team, scything thru your teammates with abandon, cause tbh, you dont loose anything for hitting them, so who cares really.
Increase upkeep so it IS effective at stopping the masses of heavy/med armour with huge weapons on horseback, because despite chadz's best efforts the game is veering more and more back to where it was preupkeep: just buy the best you can and wield it all the time.
EDIT: Problem is cavalry, ideally there needs to be 2 upkeep systems, since cavalry are so expensive they need a different equation for horses, because an IDEAL cutoff would be 10K: Over this and your loosing money. Really if you just wanna tank up and be such an epic hero that you cannot make money stupidly fast on current system, I suggest you try singleplayer. Its good.
Lol... so you want to FORCE everyone to play EXACTLY like YOU want them to play... How generous.
Try heavy armor. Try cavalry. It's not even half as good as you pretend it is "ride an armoured bear while firing lazer beams from behind their adamantium armour.". Heavy armor will save you from two or three more hits, while in the meantime slow you down to the point you will be three times as much more likely to be hit by anything. Cavalry is well and good if you know how to play it (that is, like a ninja), but as soon as the map isn't flat or that there are roofs, half the enemy team is immune to you. You can also note that attacking any ranged camping group is a suicide mission, even on perfectly flat ground. Look at how noob cav do. Compare with noob infantry or noob archers. Is the horse worth it ? No.
If anything, it's the light gear and agi that need to be looked at for nerfing. A human weight, no matter the armor, is at the very least in the 50kg range, and not 10g like high agi + light equipment allows. This would also go a long way towards fixing the retarded spam&footwork-centric melee metagame we have ended up with.
Increasing upkeep will unbalance the game towards light gear even more than now, and hurt the few poor souls that still want to roleplay a knight in armor, despite the whole mod being designed to repel them.
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I think all this needs to be balanced with a few things in mind. People say stuff like "mod is d.ead" or that the servers aren't as active as they used to be. Getting new players into the game and keeping them playing is kinda important atm. No one wants the game to die off. I'm not saying it will but every game has a life span..people who have played for years get bored and move on and unless you have new players to replace them then you get a shrinking population.
I'm a new player still really. All my M&B experience is from cRPG from mid October so I can say first hand what its like for a new player. The game is definitely not set up well for newbies. You start with a characters thats absolutely useless and gives you a false impression of how the game will be later on. The first 20 levels or so are painful and tbh every new account should start their first guy in the mid 20's just so you don't get that terrible first impression (this is after you got an account sorted..I didn't have a problem but the amount of people asking how to get their password suggests something could be improved). Then you got people running around with +10 (was +14) body armour just with the gloves and torso armour and have more damage and faster weapons. This isn't the main obstacle for players though, in addition to older players virtually being higher level like in an MMO with stronger gear, they also are experienced with the game. The learning curve is nearly vertical for M&B. Just learning how to attack properly and block takes a long time, putting it into practice against people who did it for years who also feint etc, who also can afford upkeep for better stuff, in addition to +10 body armour from looms and more damage on their weapons puts you at a big disadvantage. You don't have to play 1v1 though, and battle is pretty tactical like that. You need to learn how to block and attack quickly though and a whole bunch of other stuff. For me I enjoyed it from the start except for some things, but I dunno if I would want to start from scratch again. I liked the challenge and trying to get better, but there must be a lot of people who never get past the initial learning curve
Hurting newbies more by increasing upkeep isn't going to help the game but I realise it can't just be balance around new players. It should be kept in mind tho as its important for the long term life span of the game. I've been playing quite hardcore for a couple months now and recently got my first +3 item. I now only have half the deficit in body armour bonuses to other players, but still don't have a loomed weapon. So i'm still using weaker gear to save up. Got some money saved though from using ~10-20k gear and should have either a +2 item or +3 next time I retire. If I wasn't saving gold the last month or so I would just be getting a +1 now (after the +3). For a casual player they might not even have a +1 yet. As I said tho the main obstacle is the learning curve but the impression people get that you need looms doesn't help. People running around in rags to save up isn't going to do the game any good at all. People should be allowed to enjoy it short term rather than think about how they will be in next month or so. If upkeep was increased you would get even less variety in the gear people use and it would be harder for new players to get into the game. But if people don't have to save for gear, either by giving free looms to new players (and current players too so its not unfair) or by nerfing looms again then maybe upkeep could be increased. But part of the appeal of the game is long term progression. Some play just for the treadmill aspect, getting new gear or high levels etc. Giving new players a helping start wouldn't be bad for the game though imo, but making it harder for them won't do any good
Any other ideas for help new players would be worth implementing too, I think its one of the main things cRPG should look into now. Making the newbie experience better. Video tutorials for stuff, ingame tips, more XP/gold for first character, better GUI for the website, making it more organised whatever. Strat is a whole other beast with hardly any instruction when you access it. I believe there isn't even a link to it from the main website.
Long term players shouldn't be neglected either though. People like character progression and balance concerns shouldn't be ignored, stuff like 1 shot crossbows are pretty universally disliked for new or old players. Theres a lot of things cRPG devs could do to improve the game for new or old players
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Lol... so you want to FORCE everyone to play EXACTLY like YOU want them to play... How generous.
Try heavy armor. Try cavalry. It's not even half as good as you pretend it is "ride an armoured bear while firing lazer beams from behind their adamantium armour.". Heavy armor will save you from two or three more hits, while in the meantime slow you down to the point you will be three times as much more likely to be hit by anything. Cavalry is well and good if you know how to play it (that is, like a ninja), but as soon as the map isn't flat or that there are roofs, half the enemy team is immune to you. You can also note that attacking any ranged camping group is a suicide mission, even on perfectly flat ground. Look at how noob cav do. Compare with noob infantry or noob archers. Is the horse worth it ? No.
If anything, it's the light gear and agi that need to be looked at for nerfing. A human weight, no matter the armor, is at the very least in the 50kg range, and not 10g like high agi + light equipment allows. This would also go a long way towards fixing the retarded spam&footwork-centric melee metagame we have ended up with.
Increasing upkeep will unbalance the game towards light gear even more than now, and hurt the few poor souls that still want to roleplay a knight in armor, despite the whole mod being designed to repel them.
I dont want to force ANYONE to do ANYTHING, and as usual Kafein, you have made conclusions...I love cav, playing as cav and fighting against it. I dont want it nerfed, but it was NEVER meant to be a match for aware infantry, as you say: "like a ninja" YES, cav must ambush for its kills. You dont need:
Here's the equipment I usually use:
Light Kuyak: well mostly for the looks and cuz its loomed already
Sarranid Veiled Helmet: mostly for the looks - I like full facecovered helmets and cuz I dont wont to get oneshotted off my horse by some roofmonkey through half of the map.
Splinted Leather Greaves over Mail: necessary as cav
Scale Gauntlets: well, that one is loomed too and it was really crippled during last patch like all gauntlets :( and I have the feeling its the gear that gets damaged most
Knightly Heater Shield
While you are ambushing unaware players. If you are trying to fight them headon as a cav...thats silly.
As to nerfing speeds because of footwork...no, that WOULD kill the mod, since as it is, ITS VERY hard to play as lightly armoured player, you get constantly owned: 1hit by anything when you make one mistake, and that I can live with, but also 1hit by every FRIEND who cannot be bothered NOT to hit you, since he suffers no penalty for killing his teammates. Friendly horses usually claim at least 50% of my HP's about 1 round in 3, if you take from lightly armoured playstyle the ONE thing that makes them, you are just gonna make a game where EVERYONE just strives to wear the heaviest thing they can, and while 90% of the pop DOES do that, there should be the choice not to. Im not forcing anyone to play as I want, like you claim, but you DO want to force everyone to walk around real slow and boring.
I like speed, Im addicted to it, when my agi bonus was removed and the game slowed down I was heartbroken, but I lived with it. Also when the cash income became so much more, so everyone can afford heavy armour, and then the upkeep was nerfed so you can currently afford to wear pretty much what u want whenever, I was heartbroken again: I saw the mod becoming what it IS mostly: All armour, all the time.
IMHO:
Kuyak, greaves, veiled helmet and scale gauntlets:
Now tell me: Does that already count as heavy armor or is it still medium?
Very mofo'ing heavy! But I dont want you not to be able to wear it: if it makes you happy, thats great.
I'm just of the oppinion: My sword is armour. And some gens my shield is too :D
BTW anyone want MW Short Sword or MP round shield, PM me! Very good price :D