cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jan_van_Zuidwijk on February 20, 2011, 03:00:44 am

Title: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Jan_van_Zuidwijk on February 20, 2011, 03:00:44 am
Lots of people are still being archers or ranged for they're devious and sinister reasons... why not we remove crosshairs :D
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Korgoth on February 20, 2011, 03:24:57 am
Because there will be the same problem that the Vikingr mod had.

People can easily go into the mod files and apply the Crosshair back into the game. Also people can go on native, find out where the crosshair is and stick bluetak onto the screen.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on February 20, 2011, 03:37:23 am
Another reason: why the hell nerf archers anymore!?
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Stud_Muffin on February 20, 2011, 03:38:50 am
Give melee crosshairs. We want to be in the love too =(
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Kalam on February 20, 2011, 03:48:20 am
Eh. Archers don't use the crosshairs to aim, with the new shoot speed. They use them to time their shots.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Rumblood on February 20, 2011, 07:36:35 am
Quote from: Kalam on February 20, 2011, 03:48:20 am
Eh. Archers don't use the crosshairs to aim, with the new shoot speed. They use them to time their shots.

+1

It just lets you know when your arrow will actually be able to release now  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Miley on February 20, 2011, 07:43:28 am
They're already nerfed a little too much. This isn't a melee only game.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Baldr on February 20, 2011, 08:36:10 am
Quote from: Rumblood on February 20, 2011, 07:36:35 am
+1

It just lets you know when your arrow will actually be able to release now  :rolleyes:

+2

count down from 10 and release...  :lol:
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 20, 2011, 09:17:36 am
Quote from: Baldr on February 20, 2011, 08:36:10 am
+2

count down from 10 and release...  :lol:

Count down from ten? What are you using, a longbow/  :lol:
Sorry, could not resist.

OP is a lackluster troll for the record, I expected better from the title.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Franklin on February 21, 2011, 12:17:53 pm
Quote from: Jan_van_Zuidwijk on February 20, 2011, 03:00:44 am
Lots of people are still being archers or ranged for they're devious and sinister reasons... why not we remove crosshairs :D

Because archers suck as it is.  :P
Historically a longbow man could keep three arrows going until he ran out.  One striking the target, one in transit, one leaving the bow. 
Nations that used short recurve bows such as the Mongols had a high fire rate. At the moment an archer isn't much quicker than a crossbow and with lag affecting things actually hitting a target, let alone killing it is difficult enough.
Taking the crosshairs away would make it nigh on impossible to use the class as was intended.

Let put it this way.  We could not re-enact the battle of Agincourt as it is because the archers would only be able to get off one arrow before the cav hit and mowed them down.  Why make it worse.  :wink:
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on February 21, 2011, 12:53:01 pm
Quote from: chadz on January 26, 2011, 11:56:37 pm
(click to show/hide)
Quote from: chadz on January 28, 2011, 01:27:15 am
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Of course there are other ways of adding a dot onto your screen anyways.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Trael on February 21, 2011, 01:20:56 pm
Quote from: Franklin on February 21, 2011, 12:17:53 pm
Because archers suck as it is.  :P
Historically a longbow man could keep three arrows going until he ran out.  One striking the target, one in transit, one leaving the bow. 
Nations that used short recurve bows such as the Mongols had a high fire rate. At the moment an archer isn't much quicker than a crossbow and with lag affecting things actually hitting a target, let alone killing it is difficult enough.
Taking the crosshairs away would make it nigh on impossible to use the class as was intended.

Let put it this way.  We could not re-enact the battle of Agincourt as it is because the archers would only be able to get off one arrow before the cav hit and mowed them down.  Why make it worse.  :wink:

they just want to make bows and crossbows even more sidearm weapons that they are now. ;)
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Joxer on February 21, 2011, 02:27:53 pm
Quote from: The_Bloody_Nine on February 21, 2011, 12:53:01 pm
Of course there are other ways of adding a dot onto your screen anyways.

But what about us 3rd person players?
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Grey on February 21, 2011, 02:40:20 pm
OP must really need a shield. Shall we all drop him 100 gamegold so he can buy himself a steel shield and we can all move on?
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Gnjus on February 21, 2011, 02:47:30 pm
Quote from: Joxer on February 21, 2011, 02:27:53 pm
But what about us 3rd person players?

You lose.  :wink:
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Gorath on February 21, 2011, 08:09:37 pm
Quote from: Joxer on February 21, 2011, 02:27:53 pm
But what about us 3rd person players?

Yeah.  I'll just put a piece of tape in the middle of my screen or mod my UI if I have to in order to play in 3rd person.  Can't stand 1st person view except in single player.  Multiplayer needs far too much spatial awareness to do 1st person in anything but duels and for lulz.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: bruce on February 21, 2011, 08:24:22 pm
Quote from: Gorath on February 21, 2011, 08:09:37 pm
Yeah.  I'll just put a piece of tape in the middle of my screen or mod my UI if I have to in order to play in 3rd person.

What if you can't shoot in third person? Heh.

Btw, I tried using the crossbow in 1st person, it's fine, easier to aim even.

Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Joxer on February 21, 2011, 08:27:08 pm
Quote from: Gorath on February 21, 2011, 08:09:37 pm
Yeah.  I'll just put a piece of tape in the middle of my screen or mod my UI if I have to in order to play in 3rd person.  Can't stand 1st person view except in single player.  Multiplayer needs far too much spatial awareness to do 1st person in anything but duels and for lulz.

I already have the most awesome modded UI ever :)
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Gurnisson on February 21, 2011, 08:47:01 pm
Quote from: Gnjus on February 21, 2011, 02:47:30 pm
You lose.  :wink:

But, I'm not used to that. :|
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Gorath on February 21, 2011, 09:33:09 pm
Quote from: bruce on February 21, 2011, 08:24:22 pm
What if you can't shoot in third person? Heh. 
Well that'd be lame.
Quote from: bruce on February 21, 2011, 08:24:22 pm
Btw, I tried using the crossbow in 1st person, it's fine, easier to aim even.

It's not the aiming I have issue with in 1st person, it's that I can't adjust the FoV like in other FPS games.  If I could change the FoV to a 180 degree view like in Unreal for instance I'd use first person more.  As is though, first person has such a narrow FoV that you can't even see someone standing directly to your side like IRL.  That's the problem I have with it.  The field of vision is too narrow.  Hell I use 1st person to aim and shoot when there's obstacles in my way from using 3rd person, and I duel in 1st person almost exclusively anymore on the duel server which is amazingly fun.

Joxer, what UI mods do you have?
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Joxer on February 21, 2011, 09:46:31 pm
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=1546 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=1546)
Also it's not the FoV I'm worried about in 1st person. It's the wrong position of the view. However it seems on those chadz screenshots that has been issued. I might lear to use 1st person if that gets into the game.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Gorath on February 22, 2011, 03:24:41 am
Quote from: Joxer on February 21, 2011, 09:46:31 pm
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=1546 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=1546)
Also it's not the FoV I'm worried about in 1st person. It's the wrong position of the view. However it seems on those chadz screenshots that has been issued. I might lear to use 1st person if that gets into the game.

Ah the predator x-hairs.  Nice.  I've seen those, but I've gotten so used to using parts of the circles in the default x-hair for leading targets, range finding, etc that I don't think those would work as well for me.

The wrong position I get use to because in 3rd person I don't actually use the dots for targeting, I use the little circle the left and right parts of the x-hair make below the dots to line up the shot.  In 1st person I adjust to use the dots themselves.  Hard to explain but it's the best I can do to describe the adjustment needed between 1st and 3rd person view aiming (essentially the 3rd person arrows shoot below the dots).
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Boss_Awesome on February 22, 2011, 06:17:23 pm
Quote from: Jan_van_Zuidwijk on February 20, 2011, 03:00:44 am
Lots of people are still being archers or ranged for they're devious and sinister reasons... why not we remove crosshairs :D

Are you implying that archers weren't nerfed enough because people still play them and that the reason for this nerf was to make a melee only game?
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Mizzles on February 23, 2011, 09:53:58 am
This is silly, part of the reason we have crosshairs for ranged combat is because unlike in real life we don't have the same ability to judge distance, speed and overall precision in the game world. Not only that but without the crosshairs ranged characters would have no idea when their accuracy was falling due to resisting the pull of the bowstring (if bowmen) or even that their shot was at full power. SO, just imagine how this would affect the actual gameplay, basically every ranged character would be unable to hit any target beyond mid range, with a bow those hits may or may not be full power AND it would become significantly harder to judge where your shot was going within the games field of view. Not too mention the delicate balance of total weight on ranged characters affecting accuracy. It would become significantly harder to test the affects of different builds and load-outs on weapon accuracy etc.

Edit: Sorry for any failures in grammar its nearly 4AM here, probably some fragments or comma splices but hopefully that is overlooked and the content is evaluated instead. *Cheers*
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Wookimonsta on February 23, 2011, 10:23:33 am
well, if people modify their game files, there is always the possibility of forcing the mod to do a hashsum check of your gamefiles, and if anything is different, it immediatly bans you
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Serruntis on February 23, 2011, 10:27:21 am
Is this a melee only game? If so just take out the archer class from the mod, will fix all of your silly complains
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Momo on February 23, 2011, 02:16:15 pm
Quote from: Serruntis on February 23, 2011, 10:27:21 am
Is this a melee only game? If so just take out the archer class from the mod, will fix all of your silly complains

I don't understand why ranged cry about crosshair, you will get a much more better camera view for it. Have you seen the pics?
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Hirlok on February 23, 2011, 02:53:08 pm
Quote from: Trael on February 21, 2011, 01:20:56 pm
they just want to make bows and crossbows even more sidearm weapons that they are now. ;)

seems so. Thats why I already play a "fighting archer", who obviously sucks at fighting AND arching, but is still fun ;-)

I am still  a noob (gen 2 / mid 20s), but that I noticed already. Most folks here are using the weapon that gives them the most "kills" for their ego (hammerhoids, baremace-bullies, throwers, 2H teamhitters and the like...), and even if xp/gold are based on the team results, they act not in a tactical way, but so that they personally can cut down as much as possible. And they don't notice that many of the kills they harvest are not actually theirs, because the guy already got 3 or 4 arrows in his butt and just needs a mild slap with whatever to finally die... hitpoints-based toplists would remind them... but that's just a sidenote.

Back to topic: the crosshairs are no "crosshairs", just in case some of those who want to remove them never used them... ;-)

You are already aiming manually, esp. for long ranged shots, and  as someone already stated, the reticule just helps you with the timing. Something delicate like drawing a bow and releasing it at the right time (hard to understand for hammer-guys) needs some kind of visualisation, since I can not "feel" the tension of the bow and the state of my muscles.

So: no, you can not remove it, and I do not see any alternative way for visualisation, unless we want to give our bows a HUD like from "Sniper: Ghost Warrior", where we see our heartbeat rate, the wind conditions, a tension/relaxation bar for the state of our muscles, and a sideview of the bow to show its current curve.

Just keep the crosshairs, it is more simple.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Gorath on February 23, 2011, 07:14:39 pm
Quote from: Momo on February 23, 2011, 02:16:15 pm
I don't understand why ranged cry about crosshair, you will get a much more better camera view for it. Have you seen the pics?

Yeah I have, and they're all 1st person view which is like wearing horse blinders so you can only see 10 degrees in front of you.  Some douche could be running up to your side and mooning you and you'd never notice.  Unless that's the plan, force all players to fight in 1st person.  If so then that's cool and I'll play along, but if EVERYONE isn't forced into 1st person it seems a bit crazy to fuck over only a certain group of people like that.

Quote from: Wookimonsta on February 23, 2011, 10:23:33 am
well, if people modify their game files, there is always the possibility of forcing the mod to do a hashsum check of your gamefiles, and if anything is different, it immediatly bans you

Well that's a bit harsh isn't it?  What about the better metal sounds mod, louder horses mod, alternate textures/colors etc.
Anyways a piece of painters tape is just as easy.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Momo on February 23, 2011, 07:18:18 pm
Quote from: Gorath on February 23, 2011, 07:14:39 pm
Yeah I have, and they're all 1st person view which is like wearing horse blinders so you can only see 10 degrees in front of you.  Some douche could be running up to your side and mooning you and you'd never notice.  Unless that's the plan, force all players to fight in 1st person.  If so then that's cool and I'll play along, but if EVERYONE isn't forced into 1st person it seems a bit crazy to fuck over only a certain group of people like that.

Well that's a bit harsh isn't it?  What about the better metal sounds mod, louder horses mod, alternate textures/colors etc.
Anyways a piece of painters tape is just as easy.

First person would be cool in meele (for me its ok), just make a normal camera view for it : ).
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Joxer on February 23, 2011, 07:43:12 pm
Quote from: Gorath on February 23, 2011, 07:14:39 pm
Yeah I have, and they're all 1st person view which is like wearing horse blinders so you can only see 10 degrees in front of you.  Some douche could be running up to your side and mooning you and you'd never notice.

Let's haxxor infantry moving sounds in to the game  :twisted:
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Gorath on February 23, 2011, 07:49:42 pm
Quote from: Joxer on February 23, 2011, 07:43:12 pm
Let's haxxor infantry moving sounds in to the game  :twisted:

That is actually one of my biggest gripes in the game:  Why the fuck is everyone wearing ninja shoes and making no sound when they move and run?  Especially wearing this metal armor and shit?  Same thing with the horses wearing nike's to be completely silent until they're right on top of you, or even stranger, unless they're a mile away and then they sound like they're right next to you.  The sound in the game is rather blah.
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Delro on February 23, 2011, 10:17:57 pm
The production values in general in this game is rather blah. :P

I noticed after the .200 patch though that there are now subtle movement sounds for people in chain mail and heavier, they're just quiet enough that they're not really noticeable on an active battlefied (unless they were taken out recently, which is possible)
Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: bruce on February 23, 2011, 10:36:24 pm
Quote from: Gorath on February 23, 2011, 07:49:42 pm
Same thing with the horses wearing nike's to be completely silent until they're right on top of you

Well, for me I hear horses all right if I have my headphones on, but sometimes the sound of horses makes me jerk around and then I see it's something like 100 metres away still.

It's also possible to hear footmen if it's very silent around, but it's never silent, screaming and shouting all the time.

Title: Re: Remove crosshairs from ranged weapons
Post by: Seawied on February 23, 2011, 11:34:32 pm
I'd be a lot more silent if I didn't abuse the fuck out  of my "q" key :D