cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Thomek on December 19, 2011, 01:32:18 am

Title: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Thomek on December 19, 2011, 01:32:18 am: I'm thinking of a kind of special use weapon here.

In the late middle ages, knights often carried something like this:
(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

It's a weapon specially designed to be used when a knight was grounded, unconscious, exhausted or helpless. Since killing a full armour user by blunt force or pierce would require extraordinary effort and strength, something often not available, since the attacker was also exhausted, they had this small weapon that could be irked into cracks in the armour or through the visir of the helmet. Something like this is currently not represented in our Arsenal :)

I think making it would be interesting and cool, and something different that what we already have. I imagine it as relatively useless in the normal hand to hand fighting because of low range, speed and no blocking power. To stop it from being abused by shielders one could make it 2h only but 1 slot, or only allowed it to be used overhand or thrusted.

I imagine that if someone get's bumped or knocked down, one could switch to this to deliver the final strike. (At at a big risk of course)

Would be awesome and stylish!

This is the stats I propose off the top of my head:

Stiletto:
weapon length: 40
weight: 1
difficulty: 9
speed rating: 70
thrust damage: 37 pierce
slots: 1
Can't use on horseback
Cannot Block
Thrust only

(click to show/hide)
(Btw similar things had been suggested many times before, Shik or any other devs have a good reason why we don't include this?)
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Paul on December 19, 2011, 01:43:56 am: Quote from: Thomek on December 19, 2011, 01:32:18 am
(Btw similar things had been suggested many times before, Shik or any other devs have a good reason why we don't include this?)

cba. good enough?

why do we need a plate finisher weapon when even a 9 str katana kobold can reliably hurt people in the heaviest armor? we could of course jack up soak again cause everyone loves bouncing. btw i lol'd at the "make the dagger 2h" part.

if we had a decent model of a rondel dagger or stiletto we'd probably add it though - as 1h.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Thomek on December 19, 2011, 01:54:59 am: of course its not realistic..

its not that i want to use 2h prof, can use polearm for what i care. Just i can see shielders abuse it..

The katana now doing damage to plate is because of your armor nerfs..

Also, I'm actually for upping bounce a notch or two. Heavy armor could need a little buff for the price, u almost killed the hugging elephant playstyle! :)
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on December 19, 2011, 02:21:44 am: Whats wrong with the long dagger? 25 pierce, 0 slots, 112 speed. Sounds to me like the knights you are describing just used a standard dagger as a last resort, not anything special. You can use the long dagger as a last resort and quite often be surprised. Adding in a slower, stronger dagger doesnt make any sense to me :S
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: isatis on December 19, 2011, 02:49:07 am: I would personnaly love it! for dev: use crappy normal(the short one) dagger model and just change it so no swing/overhead, only thrust and boom we have a perfect knigth opener!
(also don't care of thomek 2h thing, a thrust only slow dagger would never be OP with shield)
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Joker86 on December 19, 2011, 03:26:47 am: Quote from: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on December 19, 2011, 02:21:44 am
Sounds to me like the knights you are describing just used a standard dagger as a last resort, not anything special.

I didn't look up anything, but I think it's called "misericordia" in English, "Gnadgott" (God's mercy, or rather "god have mercy"... actually it's just "godmercy", so interpret it the way you want :lol:) in German.

It had no cutting edge, only a thin, pointy tip to penetrate armour, as Thomek said correctly mostly through the visor or the armpit, sometimes (if the armours allowed it, especially in the 14th and early 15th century) into the neck, under the back of the head. (Later helmets were directly connected with the armour, so this was not possible any more)

----

I don't mind an implementation, as I neither think it would be OP nor widely used at all. It would be a special weapon for people who like the idea of using it, and as this game here is called "cRPG", and the idea doesn't go against the mainly western European middle ages background cRPG DOES have ( :P ), I say: why not? You have my "yes".
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Thomek on December 19, 2011, 03:31:23 am: The slowness of it would simulate irking it in to the right places of the armour.

Would of course be a peculiar weapon, but nonetheless, would be awesome to pull it off..

Anyhow, need to find some modelers now. :) Know anyone?
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: SixThumbs on December 19, 2011, 04:58:51 am: Just come up with a compromised model and have it be useful for backstabs too.

x30 damage with daggers while hidden.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on December 19, 2011, 06:13:52 am: Long dagger is pretty damn good already.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 19, 2011, 09:10:55 am: Quote from: Tomas_of_Miles on December 19, 2011, 06:13:52 am
Long dagger is pretty damn good already.

But it isnt Assassins creed dawg

We need an AC Dagger.

x5 damage from behind bro.

With a cool finishing animation....

And a hand-Crossbow.

The flying machine would also be cool...
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on December 19, 2011, 09:19:55 am: Quote from: B3RS3RK on December 19, 2011, 09:10:55 am
But it isnt Assassins creed dawg

We need an AC Dagger.

x5 damage from behind bro.

With a cool finishing animation....

And a hand-Crossbow.
Loom a hunting crossbow.
The flying machine would also be cool...
Ladderpult.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 19, 2011, 09:22:16 am: a hunting cb is no the same...I mean a Hand crossbow which you can use like the shield :D in the right hand...now that would be cool...
And ladderpaulting kills you...the flying machine should not necessarily :D
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: ToxicKilla on December 19, 2011, 12:00:05 pm: To be perfectly honest, the combat system in M&B is very simplistic, but it kind of works until you start bringing plate armour into the game. A completely new system with stamina, armour weak points, etc and a special finishing move for downed knights would be pretty cool, although this kind of stuff probably can't be done in a mod. I suppose we'll have to wait for M&B 2 and hope it has a more complex melee and armour system.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Tot. on December 19, 2011, 02:09:05 pm: Quote from: Paul on December 19, 2011, 01:43:56 am
9 str katana kobold

:lol:
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Zerran on December 19, 2011, 08:49:28 pm: Quote from: ToxicKilla on December 19, 2011, 12:00:05 pm
To be perfectly honest, the combat system in M&B is very simplistic, but it kind of works until you start bringing plate armour into the game. A completely new system with stamina, armour weak points, etc and a special finishing move for downed knights would be pretty cool, although this kind of stuff probably can't be done in a mod. I suppose we'll have to wait for M&B 2 and hope it has a more complex melee and armour system.

soo... "Let's redo everything about M&B combat, maybe call it something cool and original, like 'Skyrim'" :P Just messing with you, mate.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Thomek on December 20, 2011, 06:33:20 am: Besides.. a dagger with 2h animations would just look awesome.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Glyph on December 20, 2011, 11:02:01 am: why would someone make a dagger 2handed....
maybe because the person suggesting this is someone who uses 2handers...
maybe because the person suggesting this is a filthy ninja that wants an uber abooze weapon for himself to use and rage people...
maybe because the person suggesting this is someone who watns to be OP...

all i need to say :D
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Thomek on December 20, 2011, 11:08:34 am: Im of course never biased.. Nah :)
But, imagine an overhead swing with reversed blade. Would be awesome even if im a biased ninja.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: RiPLeY_II on December 20, 2011, 05:48:51 pm: Why not instead of making it slow, make it REALLY short? (like it was in reality, last resort, very smal so you can use it in close quarters).
Something like:

Stiletto:
weapon length: 15
weight: 0.5
difficulty: 0
speed rating: 100
thrust damage: 32 pierce
slots: 0
Can't use on horseback
Cannot Block
Thrust only
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: SixThumbs on December 20, 2011, 09:15:04 pm: What's preventing me from using it from horse back?
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 20, 2011, 09:17:08 pm: Quote from: SixThumbs on December 20, 2011, 09:15:04 pm
What's preventing me from using it from horse back?

Yeah wtih 15 length yo uwouldnt hit shit anyway lol.Not even another rider.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Siiem on December 20, 2011, 10:11:37 pm: Quote from: Thomek on December 19, 2011, 01:54:59 am
Heavy armor could need a little buff

:shock:
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Thomek on December 21, 2011, 12:32:05 am: Quote from: Siiem on December 20, 2011, 10:11:37 pm
:shock:

the very heaviest actually could..
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Rumblood on December 21, 2011, 05:59:29 am: No Dune daggers plox :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Braeden on December 21, 2011, 07:16:47 am: Quote from: Rumblood on December 21, 2011, 05:59:29 am
No Dune daggers plox :rolleyes:

Add anti-ranged personal shields plox
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on December 21, 2011, 05:49:18 pm: 10ps and mw espada eslavona is a fun one shot plate combo
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: owens on December 22, 2011, 01:41:51 pm: 37 peirce.

75 speed

slower and weaker and shorter than a morningstar

also 15 reach wont reach people on the ground bad idea. make it about 45 reach and give it a stab, and thats it. more expensive and slower than a dagger but with a badass appearance and better damage maybe weight so that it bounces a bit less.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: RiPLeY_II on December 22, 2011, 04:47:05 pm: Oh yes ... a 75 speed Dagger what a great idea.

I saw an elephant running 200mph the other day. I didn't worry, God did it for the sake of balance...

Giving not normal stats to a weapon for balance is ok, but it should have a limit and not surpass physical reality .... a 75 speed dagger ...is simply NOT a dagger.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 22, 2011, 05:12:18 pm: Quote from: RiPLeY_II on December 22, 2011, 04:47:05 pm
Oh yes ... a 75 speed Dagger what a great idea.

I saw an elephant running 200mph the other day. I didn't worry, God did it for the sake of balance...

Giving not normal stats to a weapon for balance is ok, but it should have a limit and not surpass physical reality .... a 75 speed dagger ...is simply NOT a dagger.

You didnt think of a Scenario where a Guy would hold his dagger over his head, to thrust it down with all his power?Im pretty sure that would fit 75 speed...
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: Kafein on December 22, 2011, 05:53:51 pm: Quote from: Thomek on December 21, 2011, 12:32:05 am
the very heaviest actually could..

Or simply get a massive upkeep rebalance, according to the actual battlefield value of the item, and not the balance team bias...

Try any plate armor. Seriously. It takes a decent player not to get owned by dumb castor swings while using heavy armor.
Title: Re: Add a VERY SLOW but DEADLY dagger.
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 22, 2011, 06:22:52 pm: Actually, I´d be in for -10k gold on all plate armor costs if they increase the running speed penalty for weight.