cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Murmillus_Prime on February 18, 2011, 01:54:54 pm
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Since all these patches in the last couple of months, heavy plate armour wearing amongst the general EU population has almost become extinct.
People generally tend to blame it on the upkeep system and how it's crippling anyone who chooses to wear plate, even for short amounts of time. So here I am with 5 IF, I die from 1-3 hits most of the time and that's in light armours like mail shirt, with kettle helmet and mail gauntlets and splinted greaves.
Dying in 1 hit pisses most people off, dying in 2 is almost as bad, especially from what appear to be light weapons like 1hers and basic spears. What's worse given the recent trend of throwing weapon use means that you end up dying in 1-2 throwing axes or javelins ect.. So you'd think the solution would be to wear heavier armour right?
So I throw on milanese sallet, gothic plate with bevor, plate mittens and cased greaves, walk out of spawn next round feeling like robocop.... Only I get slashed to half my hp from a cleaver at the start, knocked to almost 0 hp by a second slash this time by a sidesword or something and then finished off by a throwing axe. So I died in 3 hits, in full plate armour.
I know it depends on who hit you, where they hit you and their level but I'm level 30, I've got 5 IF I know that's not amazing but it's not as if I'm going around using this armour without using IF atall, and this has happened loads of times. So we've got this expensive plate armour, that's expensive to upkeep, slows you down to a turtles crawl and STILL, you die in 1-3 hits often.
I don't like pure str chars and I know I'd survive more if I just pumped STR, but since most of my builds have been balanced or near balanced in agi and str then does this mean that unless your a pure STR char plate armour is worthless? If so then doesn't this plate armour need a buff? Shouldn't plate armour here at least in a small way act and behave like real life plate armour? I'm not saying 'HURR REALISM PATCH' but here plate might as well be chainmail, and there's a significant difference in the real world at least at the level of protection each provide and so I think the heaviest plate armours in this mod deserve a decent buff considering the speed penalties of the plate just make plate users walking pinatas for throwers and light weapon users alike.
Forking out stupid upkeep to become a slow walking target with very small benefits other than looking cool, isnt fun or fair.
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purring mime it is mainly for the glance factor methinks good sir
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A) What you describe is due to the significant increase of strength builds, because, you know, it's the smart thing to do.
B) NA seems to have more plate armour wearers than you imply EU has. They tend to be able to use it constantly by maintaining a steady high multiplier average. With black armour, it appears they require 'light armour retirements' in between, where they use a build with light armour for one generation to save gold for the next.
C) Plate, to me, is primarily for avoiding getting easily killed by ranged fire and teamwork damage.
D) I'd be fine with raising the armour, but, at the same time, I feel that it would further encourage strength builds. I'd rather see balanced builds encouraged above all else.
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I would like to see armour be more balanced by functionality rather than price. I would like to see heavy armour have more penalty to movement and even a bit to swing speed if possible. I think pro plate should be protection against most things in general but mainly light flying projectiles like arrows, bolts and daggers but still be fairly vulnerable to thrown axes and more vulnerable to throwing lances and jarids. I think con plane should be much more restricted running speed and somewhat affected striking speed.
This way plate would good in some situations like pushing in siege maps and less useful in other situations such as open field maps where they would just be dominated by more agile spearthrowers and cavalry. This in my opinion would also add more tactical elements to the game where you have to work together more to protect eachother helping different characters fulfil theire individual role unlike the way it is now where the plated 2hander just kind of dominates in general. I think price could still be a factor but at the moment its pretty much the only factor to consider when you chose to plate or not to plate as I see it.
I hope Im making sense, Im very tired :-)
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My suggestion is to lower plate armour's weight and weight penalty (because most armours seem much lighter when worn, than when carried in a backpack / hands / etc., that especially true with gothic plate armour), and, perhaps, slightly increase the price to "balance" it.
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I would like to see armour be more balanced by functionality rather than price. I would like to see heavy armour have more penalty to movement and even a bit to swing speed if possible. I think pro plate should be protection against most things in general but mainly light flying projectiles like arrows, bolts and daggers but still be fairly vulnerable to thrown axes and more vulnerable to throwing lances and jarids. I think con plane should be much more restricted running speed and somewhat affected striking speed.
I hope Im making sense, Im very tired :-)
How stupid are you?
During the middle age, plate armor was the best way to be protect and MOVE fast on the battlefield. The weight was distributed among the different body parts and knight were able to run, jump, mount on a horse alone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IL2giKNN8&feature=related
Guys in plate armor were MUCH faster than a guy in full mail armor.
20kg ? This is less than the weight of modern combat gear of an infantry soldier (usually 25 to 35 kg), and the weight is more evenly distributed.
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LOL @ B remember REPLACE "they" with "GORETOOTH" and B becomes TRUE instead of FALSE
My opinion is that plate was never worth it because of the weight to protection ratio compared to say elite or transitional armors
A) What you describe is due to the significant increase of strength builds, because, you know, it's the smart thing to do.
B) NA seems to have more plate armour wearers than you imply EU has. They tend to be able to use it constantly by maintaining a steady high multiplier average. With black armour, it appears they require 'light armour retirements' in between, where they use a build with light armour for one generation to save gold for the next.
C) Plate, to me, is primarily for avoiding getting easily killed by ranged fire and teamwork damage.
D) I'd be fine with raising the armour, but, at the same time, I feel that it would further encourage strength builds. I'd rather see balanced builds encouraged above all else.
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LOL @ B remember REPLACE "they" with "GORETOOTH" and B becomes TRUE instead of FALSE
My opinion is that plate was never worth it because of the weight to protection ratio compared to say elite or transitional armors
Linden uses Gothic, and Wallace uses transitional. One of the LLJK uses plate regularly, as does one of the Qc guys. Where 'plate' here is anything with 50 armour or above. There are more, but these are just the ones that I can mention off the bat.
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How stupid are you?
During the middle age, plate armor was the best way to be protect and MOVE fast on the battlefield. The weight was distributed among the different body parts and knight were able to run, jump, mount on a horse alone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IL2giKNN8&feature=related
Guys in plate armor were MUCH faster than a guy in full mail armor.
20kg ? This is less than the weight of modern combat gear of an infantry soldier (usually 25 to 35 kg), and the weight is more evenly distributed.
So a guy in full plate will not be slower and less agile than someone in light cloth? I never compared full plate and full mail, you made that comparison. Calling someone stupid before making yourself look like a fool only adds to your embarrasment.
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Linden uses Gothic, and Wallace uses transitional. One of the LLJK uses plate regularly, as does one of the Qc guys. Where 'plate' here is anything with 50 armour or above. There are more, but these are just the ones that I can mention off the bat.
Ok if plate includes stuff over 50 then my elite armor counts as plate I wasn't considering anything under the cherboueg/gothic/milanese/black as "plate"
Still in weight vs protect I still think transitional/elite is about the best weight to protect ratio (especially when u add cost in)
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This thread is so full of fail :twisted:
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This thread is so full of fail :twisted:
+1
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Plate works fine, if anything wearing plate should have some penalties to it.
Examples: running slower, swinging slower,
If these penalties were made noticeable then I may side with lowering the price a bit, but as it is right now, plate is a life saver in most situations, and wearing it is an advantage since there is hardly any penalty to choosing to wear it.
& sometimes you can get away without even paying upkeep :O .. Extreme luck is needed though.
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This "plate is overpowered" crap came from two different sorts of people:
1) crpg noobs, that played for 2 hours and got frustrated that they couldnt do shit with their wooden stick and 2 ps against a "tincan"
2) agi whores with 9 str 3 ps no iron flesh no real armor that got one shotted by a tincan
Black Armor never worked for me.
My medium tincan build 18 str 6 iron flesh in black armor died in 1 throwing lance, 2 bolts, 2 poleaxe swings, 3 arrows, 4 (at best) 1h hits.
Whats the point in wearing armor when you die in 2 hits most of the time anyway.
My full str build 36 str 12 iron flesh could take a bit more, but rushing into the enemy and spamming a great axe gets boring after a few mins and thats all you can do with such a build.
I am doing better in Leather Jacket. For real!
I can kill (with my 8 power strike) in 1 or 2 hits (in battle enemies are usually already injured when I meet them), a fresh heavy armored I have never seen survive more than 2-3 hits from me, except those two Shogunate cheaters that are/ were clearly cheating by buffing somehow their chars hit points to about 700.
Its true. Armor doesnt give your char the protection it should.
I would change it like that: More protection, but also more weight to slow the movement speed down.
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Its as it should be: You dont wanna block, you pay 8-)
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Buff plate or lower the price for better variety ingame.
Buffing makes it worth the cost and makes it more speciak.
Lowering price makes it more common but as has been stated it wont create droves of unkillable tin cans.
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Nope.
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Plate works fine, if anything wearing plate should have some penalties to it.
Examples: running slower, swinging slower,
If these penalties were made noticeable then I may side with lowering the price a bit, but as it is right now, plate is a life saver in most situations, and wearing it is an advantage since there is hardly any penalty to choosing to wear it.
& sometimes you can get away without even paying upkeep :O .. Extreme luck is needed though.
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This. The ONLY penalty plate has is upkeep. Give plate more penalties and then perhaps the upkeep could be lowered a bit. As is, it's just an expensive crutch.
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Let's look at the green Surcoat Over Mail and the Heavy Plate Armor. The plate adds 16 Body and 8 leg armor for 20 THOUSAND gold. Not to mention the upkeep, so in my opinion, you should just stay with mail until you become a billionaire. :U
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Its as it should be: You dont wanna block, you pay 8-)
I'll upblock a throwing axe, downblock a throwing lance and side block incoming jarrids...
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This. The ONLY penalty plate has is upkeep. Give plate more penalties and then perhaps the upkeep could be lowered a bit. As is, it's just an expensive crutch.
I wouldn't even class it as a crutch... Secondary ranged weapons are a crutch, a horse is a crutch, +3 items are a crutch, but heavy armour that costs alot, and alot to upkeep, that slows you down only so you die in the same amount of hits as armour that's a fraction the price and you can run faster in I don't consider a crutch.
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Plate armor only becomes good with ~90 HP. Before that, it's not worth it IMO.
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that slows you down
Hardly at all compared to tunic over mail or even my tribal warrior outfit.
only so you die in the same amount of hits as armour that's a fraction the price and you can run faster in I don't consider a crutch.
That's funny. Wallace in his plate takes 4-5 overheads from my heirloomed 46c warcleaver with 6 PS to bring down. Wallace in light-med. armor only takes 1-2 like everyone else in light armor. Goretooth in his black armor takes 5-6 hits from that same weapon to bring down. Goretooth without his black plate takes 1-2. This is pretty standard for most everyone I run into that wears plate vs wearing anything but. I'd consider taking 4+ hits instead of 1 from my 'loomed mancleaver a significant protective increase.
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Hardly at all compared to tunic over mail or even my tribal warrior outfit.
That's funny. Wallace in his plate takes 4-5 overheads from my heirloomed 46c warcleaver with 6 PS to bring down. Wallace in light-med. armor only takes 1-2 like everyone else in light armor. Goretooth in his black armor takes 5-6 hits from that same weapon to bring down. Goretooth without his black plate takes 1-2. This is pretty standard for most everyone I run into that wears plate vs wearing anything but. I'd consider taking 4+ hits instead of 1 from my 'loomed mancleaver a significant protective increase.
I too encounter people who wear heavy armour and survive stupid amounts of hits to the head. I've never understood how they survive so many powerfull hits when if I wear superior armour to even theirs I still die in like 2-3 hits, there arent many people like this though. But I'd like to know their IF or if they have loomed armour.
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Also, just to reiterate, one of the best parts of heavy armor is that it is much easier to cause a glance with it. Goretooth can move around in crowded melees forcing many hits to glance simply due to the high armor value and his experience in battles. In light armor, that wouldn't be possible.
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Also, just to reiterate, one of the best parts of heavy armor is that it is much easier to cause a glance with it. Goretooth can move around in crowded melees forcing many hits to glance simply due to the high armor value and his experience in battles. In light armor, that wouldn't be possible.
In crowded situations the crowd of people tend to do more harm to eachother, no matter what the enemy is wearing be it plate or leather, they'll simply be hitting eachother and is probably why goretooth survives well in them situations.
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C) Plate, to me, is primarily for avoiding getting easily killed by ranged fire and teamwork damage.
I remember when I bought low end plate, and there was this clusterfuck where we were charging in nord town, and... two throwing thingies, dead. Just like in mail. Generally it was 2-3 throwing BS and I'm dead. Speed at least lets you close to throwers faster, so plate is more of a hinderance there. It only protects somewhat from archery.
I also took it to duel a bit... I was a polearmer that retirement. So anyway... once it took two slashes from a danish greatsword to kill me. Wat? Then I tried with mail armour to see the difference and although the damage received was somewhat higher, it was much easier and much more effective to fight with.
Basically, waste of gold, get mail.
Also, this Goretooth you speak of was on EU a few times where he got killed just like any other tincan, bah.
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Aye, Murmillus, but as I stated, his style relies on causing most hits to glance. Without that and the ability to take more hits, he would likely be unable to survive doing that as often. Simple fact of the matter is it makes it much much more likely that you'll survive a situation like that.
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I wore plate for 2 reasons before the patch.
a) i liked the way it looked
b) less damage from ranged fire.
the amount of protection given by plate was never that high.
The simple matter was people who could afford plate had been playing for longer and were thus more seasoned players.
Thats why everyone went OMG PLATE SO OP because they made the wrong connection.
But I agree, for the current cost, plate aint worth it. Not to mention how goddam slow it makes you.
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Also, this Goretooth you speak of was on EU a few times where he got killed just like any other tincan, bah.
EU. We can't play on EU with it's immense black hole lag of doom.
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Everyone seems to be using Goretooth as an example of how heavy plate works ingame. It should be noted though that he uses triple heirloomed everything. This is 12 total retirements.
This gives: +6 Head, +12 Body, +12 Leg. Also, adding armor at higher armor levels reduces damage much more (0 armor to 12 armor does almost nothing but 68 armor to 80 armor does a great deal).
Although the added weight may not be worth it for an unheirloomed heavy armor compared to an unheirloomed medium/light, I would say that a Lordly Heavy armor is worth it compared to a Lordly Light/Medium armor in many cases.
As time progresses, and people heirloom heavy armor, I think it is likely that we will see more variety in the armor ingame.
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I wore plate for 2 reasons before the patch.
a) i liked the way it looked
b) less damage from ranged fire.
the amount of protection given by plate was never that high.
The simple matter was people who could afford plate had been playing for longer and were thus more seasoned players.
Thats why everyone went OMG PLATE SO OP because they made the wrong connection.
But I agree, for the current cost, plate aint worth it. Not to mention how goddam slow it makes you.
As mentioned earlier, some players with heavy armour take many powerful hits from players with, 5-7ps and +2-+3 weapons with 130-150wpf, where as most players with heavy armour die in 2-3 hits, I'm not sure how some plated players can take repeated overhead strikes and survive as when somone with a 2h does the same to me, half my life is usually taken in the first strike and the rest on the second.
Maybe there's more +2-+3 armours out there than I thought, and maybe they add more protection than I give credit for, I've never heirloomed armour as of yet so I can't say I'm clued up on how heirlooming armour would affect it.
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Str build, you wouldnt beleive the number of hits needed to kill me with 29 str while I can kill platers in 2-3 with a 1 handed sword
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Yes but str builds max at around 120 - 130 wpf, are slow, easy targets for any kind of ranged or cav. Trust me 3x heirloomed plate pure str meant i was a tank. But these days its not so feasible so given up. Plate is nice with 0IF i can still take a 2 sometimes 3 hits when fighting which is good. Other than that i'd say it is quite weak for the amount you pay out. Maybe increase the weight of it so it nerfs WPF more but increase the resistance it gives. E.g. make bounces more likely.
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Yes but str builds max at around 120 - 130 wpf, are slow, easy targets for any kind of ranged or cav. Trust me 3x heirloomed plate pure str meant i was a tank. But these days its not so feasible so given up. Plate is nice with 0IF i can still take a 2 sometimes 3 hits when fighting which is good. Other than that i'd say it is quite weak for the amount you pay out. Maybe increase the weight of it so it nerfs WPF more but increase the resistance it gives. E.g. make bounces more likely.
I have 130 wpf on all my hybrids and it's more than enough for melee fighting.
Increasing the weight to nerf wpf and speed more while increasing resistances would be a good tradeoff imo.
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Same ivw got 120+ pole & 100 throw atm. Ultimate anti cav cavalry.
Pure str devoids you of the effect of athletics which by increasing you ability to footwork makes you faster in fighting.
Anyhow the best solution to plate is to either lower repar cost. 1.5k for millanese is abit ott for what it is. Or increase its resistance and weight.
Or just pretend its fine and leave it. I wander what will happen...
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Same ivw got 120+ pole & 100 throw atm. Ultimate anti cav cavalry.
Pure str devoids you of the effect of athletics which by increasing you ability to footwork makes you faster in fighting.
Anyhow the best solution to plate is to either lower repar cost. 1.5k for millanese is abit ott for what it is. Or increase its resistance and weight.
Or just pretend its fine and leave it. I wander what will happen...
They added the upkeep specifically to reduce plate wearers, so I REALLY doubt they'll lower the repair cost.
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I think armor should count as damage reduction from every hit, not like a set of spare hp that takes damage before the set that determines your status as a living or dead toon. Also the heavier and more plated the armor the more it should have protection from slashing weapons.
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Lots of uninformed bs posts.
Plate currently does slow you down alot, and using plate armor on a map with hills = suicide because you come to almost a stop when climbing a hill in plate (which historically was lighter than full chain armor). It is useful on plain maps vs some agi stackers, and gives some protection vs arrows (depending on luck on the enemy damage roll). I rarely use it while my build should use it always but as i said, on hills i simply cannot walk anymore, and vs throwers or good 2h/pole it maybe lets you survive 1 more hit. Not a huge deal, while the upkeep is crazy high and should be tuned down to something more fair.
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increase effectivity and upkeep on high tier armors
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I think armor should count as damage reduction from every hit, not like a set of spare hp that takes damage before the set that determines your status as a living or dead toon. Also the heavier and more plated the armor the more it should have protection from slashing weapons.
I'm pretty sure it does, armour does not act like HP. There is a formula for damage, different for cutting, blunt and piercing, cutting is the least effective against armour, it is more likely to glance and penetrates armour less effectively than the other types. I think blunt glances less than pierce, but pierce penetrates more armour, losing less damage to the reduction factor. Overall pierce is the best vs armour where the formula is concerned, but blunt weapons usually benefit from things like knockdown and crushthrough.
There is a randomization to damage too, meaning one full swing might glance off the armour because it didn't do enough damage to make it through the armour, but the next swing might do near max damage your skills/weapon allow you to do, delivering damage to the enemy. Though high powerstrike means alot less glancing with all weapons.
A problem IMO has always been that even though cut weapons are the least effective against armour in terms of the formula, they always have the higher raw damages, meaning that a 40 cut weapon is going to be as effective against armour as a 30 blunt weapon when you factor power strike into it. The immense amount of raw damage the cut weapons get from power strike % bonus means it makes the armour formula vs cutting ineffective, they are just more likely to glance if the swing is started too close to the enemy. That's just how I see it anyway.
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I'm pretty sure it does, armour does not act like HP. There is a formula for damage, different for cutting, blunt and piercing, cutting is the least effective against armour, it is more likely to glance and penetrates armour less effectively than the other types. I think blunt glances less than pierce, but pierce penetrates more armour, losing less damage to the reduction factor. Overall pierce is the best vs armour where the formula is concerned, but blunt weapons usually benefit from things like knockdown and crushthrough.
There is a randomization to damage too, meaning one full swing might glance off the armour because it didn't do enough damage to make it through the armour, but the next swing might do near max damage your skills/weapon allow you to do, delivering damage to the enemy. Though high powerstrike means alot less glancing with all weapons.
A problem IMO has always been that even though cut weapons are the least effective against armour in terms of the formula, they always have the higher raw damages, meaning that a 40 cut weapon is going to be as effective against armour as a 30 blunt weapon when you factor power strike into it. The immense amount of raw damage the cut weapons get from power strike % bonus means it makes the armour formula vs cutting ineffective, they are just more likely to glance if the swing is started too close to the enemy. That's just how I see it anyway.
+1
Spamtanas and other cutting weapons are usually why I die in full plate armour, which I think is wrong. Aren't there super crush weapons like the maul to deal with full plate chars? Yet the maul users arent really needed since cut weapons kill plate fine anyway.. even though I think they should have a tougher time vs plate...
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+1
Spamtanas and other cutting weapons are usually why I die in full plate armour, which I think is wrong. Aren't there super crush weapons like the maul to deal with full plate chars? Yet the maul users arent really needed since cut weapons kill plate fine anyway.. even though I think they should have a tougher time vs plate...
My last build with my masterwork 'SPAM'tana & 7 PS cut down tin cans after a few good swings usually because of their incompetence to block overheads.
is that wrong?
anyways.. I've decided that I will agree with you IF they remake the morningstar and spiked mace to be sheathed where a daggar would go :3 just so I can deal with the tin cans and their better armor & still maintain looking awesome :D what do you think?
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My last build with my masterwork 'SPAM'tana & 7 PS cut down tin cans after a few good swings usually because of their incompetence to block overheads.
is that wrong?
anyways.. I've decided that I will agree with you IF they remake the morningstar and spiked mace to be sheathed where a daggar would go :3 just so I can deal with the tin cans and their better armor & still maintain looking awesome :D what do you think?
If they fail to block overheads it's the helmet armor that counts if your hit is perfect, nothing wrong there. If you hit the body instead it should take 5-7 swings with a katana not 2 to kill a tincan. You're also right if tincans are buffed there will be a proper use for anti-armor weapons like blunt and piercing, which currently make little to no sense since cutting weapons can do the same damage to plate without the drawbacks.
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The problem with plate is that with the WPF cap you are slow as shit if you wear full plate, so unless you are a STR build it isn't really worth it. Pre-patch I used to wear plate because I had 220 WPF. Now I never wear anything heavier than Banded Armor, it just slows you down too much for little benefit.
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I don't thin we should make plate armors even more "special" and rare, by increasing their effectivity and upkeep.
I'm not taking realism into account here, but I don't like the idea of suddenly, because you want to spend money on this round, you can have an unfair advantage over others by having a better gear once. Currently, plate offers more advantage than pre patch, but it's still manageable to kill plated people. But if we buff it, light armored rich people will complain and ask for an increase in upkeep, which is absolutlely not what players really interested in plate want.
So I would be for :
More balancing of cheap and expensive items
Less upkeep
For gameplay sake, I don't think it's good you can "choose" wether you will have a big advantage or not, simply by spending money (which is alas there for this only purpose) on a round when others did not. This is decreasing the skill factor, and make the game more like a "strategic planning" game. A change i that direction would also fix the idiotic cloth-plate-cloth-plate-cloth-plate cycle of some players, being (for some) allmost useless, then completely imba. "To have more gold, just stick with the +3 plated charger black armored guy", "ho damn, this turn he'll be an useless leech" that's not really and enjoyable, realistic or immersive game...
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My last build with my masterwork 'SPAM'tana & 7 PS cut down tin cans after a few good swings usually because of their incompetence to block overheads.
is that wrong?
anyways.. I've decided that I will agree with you IF they remake the morningstar and spiked mace to be sheathed where a daggar would go :3 just so I can deal with the tin cans and their better armor & still maintain looking awesome :D what do you think?
What you call imcompetence can easily be the game mechanics as of late. Since the last batch of patches many people and myself noticed phantom blocks. On the blockers screen you've blocked a hit, or did a block that should have deflected the hit yet the attackers strike goes through the block and kills you anyway. This happens more often with 2h weapons more than any, and the faster the 2h weapon the more this issue tends to arise.
Blocking is only manageable for most people man to man, one on one, in the battlefield backstabbing somone with an overhead strike isn't their imcompetence either, just your initiative.
Back on main topic.
For fairness sake you should get what you're paying for, paying for a huge amount of armour to die in the same amount of hits as cheaper armour clearly shows that the armour needs either a money nerf or a protection buff. In the days where people had over 200+wpf and black plate and bla bla, it was sometimes annoying to die to them often but it was also fun watching them try to take on the rest of the enemy team alone and getting ganked until they die. It was fun watching some hotshot with light armour cut tanks down to size, and it was fun watching the carnage a tank caused when he walked into 50 peasants.
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In the days where people had over 200+wpf and black plate and bla bla, it was sometimes annoying to die to them often but it was also fun watching them try to take on the rest of the enemy team alone and getting ganked until they die. It was fun watching some hotshot with light armour cut tanks down to size, and it was fun watching the carnage a tank caused when he walked into 50 peasants.
That was nice indeed... I agree what i quoted
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For fairness sake you should get what you're paying for, paying for a huge amount of armour to die in the same amount of hits as cheaper armour
Except this part is STILL completely and totally untrue.
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Except this part is STILL completely and totally untrue.
We can test if you wish.
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We can test if you wish.
Sure. Catch me on the duel server and we'll go through different armor setups. I have 18 str, 3 IF and will let you swing at me while wearing my tribal warrior outfit vs my cuir boulli over mail.
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Depends.
With my build and NCS I need about 2 times as many hits on plate as on mail (nevermind the glances). But the higher damage the weapon is the less that is true. Str build with tripple heirloomed axe will maybe only 1.5 times as much damage to mail than to plate, that's where the offender is.
Especially since the number of hits you can take is always an integer. I.e. if someone hits me for 90% hp in mail he will still do 60% hp damage to someone in plate, 2 hits in both instances. But if you manage to kill him after the first hit, that is a huge benefit. I've been killed alone by random horse touch from 10% health left 5 times in the last two days, with just 10 more armor I'd have easily survived and the speed hit isn't really noticable.
Seriously, if you are looking at the people that pull out plate every once in a while, their K:D skyrockets but people will also pack higher damage weapons or go for gangs and headshots if they see a plater.
Urlurkur suggested to change soak and reductions values so that high damage weapons don't bypass armor so easily, or you could give everyone more hp so the difference is more pronounced.
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I can kill (with my 8 power strike) in 1 or 2 hits (in battle enemies are usually already injured when I meet them), a fresh heavy armored I have never seen survive more than 2-3 hits from me, except those two Shogunate cheaters that are/ were clearly cheating by buffing somehow their chars hit points to about 700.
Oh wow i just noticed this, awesome :mrgreen:. Way to make a fool of yourself yet again .
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Oh wow i just noticed this, awesome :mrgreen:. Way to make a fool of yourself yet again .
again? This man has perfected the art of shitting from his mouth.
And for the record: plate is not obsolete. It is still viable to use if you look at the victory bonuses. At x1, a player can support $25,000 worth of equipment without gaining or losing money on average over an extended period of time. At x2, this goes up to $50,000... x3=75,000. This means with an x3 bonus, a player can easily afford to wear a set of plate armor and still have a decent weapon.
I wrote a spreadsheet which calculates total loss/gain values per minute based on gear setup. When you look at it from a statistical point of view, high tier items are still very viable. Assuming all players carry a 50% win-to-loss ratio (which is a fair assumption thanks to autobalance,) all players on average carry a 1.96875 multiplier. This translates to ~4,900 worth of gear to break even on average
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Yeah, I don't use plate, but some of my other gear is pretty expensive, so I routinely walk around with between 33000 and 53000 worth of equipment and I'm still making money hand over fist, so it seems to me that, from a financial perspective, plate is still practical.
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my danish swrd seems to break more often than any other equipment.
Yesterday it repaired for 10 rounds in a row.
Makes carrying heavier equipment somewhat expensive.