cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Knute on December 08, 2011, 11:40:56 am

Title: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Knute on December 08, 2011, 11:40:56 am: I like Strategus v.3, especially the trading and bandits. That said, the things I don't like are:

- most gear is too expensive
- cavalry gone
- nobody signs up for village defenses
- no castle/town sieges
- it's difficult for small clans to exist without joining an alliance
- once your clan loses all territory, its hard to get back into the game
- stalemate

I don't know if a bigger map alone will fix some of these problems. Here's a suggestion though:

Instead of having an infinite number of factions, how about just 6 large factions that anyone can sign up for? Heres how it would work.

Factions:
(click to show/hide)
When the new round of Strategus begins, youre given the option to join one of 6 factions or stay neutral. The six factions would occupy the same areas as the Warband single player factions, see map and alt map:
(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

People who choose to go neutral at first could join a faction at any time by selecting someone in a faction and doing the apply thing, just like now. You could quit a faction at any time but would have to wait a week before joining another.

All the town/castles/villages already belong to factions, so there would be no more initial neutral village defenses. People from other factions staying in your towns would have to pay a high visiting fee but your faction members would only pay the 1 gold fee. These places in your starting territories would still be like neutral village/towns/castles though, so someone within your faction could take a town/castle/village to better control it's defense or raise taxes and visiting fees. If another group within the faction doesnt like this, they can attack their fellow faction members town. So there would be the chance for fighting between groups within your faction.

Also, if someone did attacking one of the locations within your home territory, it would behave just like neutral villages now, letting anyone sign up. So because there are 5 other factions spread around the map, there might be more people willing to sign up for the defense of a neutral town without fear of retaliation.

Your current faction:
(click to show/hide)
People could still be in their same old cRPG clans, they would just be a subgroup of a larger faction. Sort of like a family, tribe, company of soldiers, whatever you see yourself as. Identified by your clan tags.

In the last few versions of Strategus, a small clan could save up for a couple weeks to take a village..and then lose it because their defense is at 3pm and theyre all at work. Because this small clan lost everything, they might lose interest in Strategus. In the same scenario, with the small clan being a subgroup of a larger faction, they might be more likely to have a pool of people available at 3pm on a weekday to defend the village. So this faction system would possibly allow small groups to have a better chance in Strategus.

Gear:
(click to show/hide)
If I recall correctly, the original intent of players earning skill points for crafting was to allow you to make the gear that you enjoyed using for less cost in Strategus, so clans could have their own distinct look. How about this:

Each of the factions would be able to produce the gear that reflects their culture for a very low price. You could still buy everything everywhere, but in the Rhodok lands they could buy crossbows, polearms and board shields for 75% less. In the Nord lands they would have axes, huscarls and longbows. Khergit area gets horse archer stuff and so on.

This might lead to weapon trading between friendly factions and weapon smuggling to others. I think all gear should be cheaper in general too, so cavalry and sieges can return to Strategus.

Maybe this gear thing might make some people choose factions based on the equipment they'll get to use more often. Former enemies might end up in the same faction because they like to use the same stuff. EU players who like Rus armor might join the Vaegir area faction even though its in the NA zone, and then be useful for raiding into the EU zone. Maybe mixed NA/EU factions would become more common.

Benefits for new players:
(click to show/hide)
They could make a skip the fun character and join a faction in Strategus right away without having to apply for a clan or meet some kind of skill standard. They would instantly be able to get involved in both cRPG and Strategus, maybe joining some clan later on.

What about carebear stuff?
(click to show/hide)
Lets say all the players in the two largest factions currently in the game both joined the Swadian faction. The crafting efficiency system would still be the same as now, so there would probably be a lot of people hanging around outside of villages/castles/towns with nothing to do.

Also, it would be a lot harder for people to send caravans outside of their factions territory because while they might have some friends in a neighboring faction, they will also have enemies plus a ton of loose cannons who don't care about trade agreements or treaties. Each version of Strategus people tend to group up into large coalitions anyway, so this 6 faction system would just be skipping right to that, and hopefully moving on to the next part where we get more wars.

So in summary:
(click to show/hide)
Everything is the same as it is now except:

6 different factions with starting territories.
Faction equipment based on your culture is very cheap plus everything cheaper in general.

Ok, I'm going to learn how to code this, brb in 10 yrs.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Vibe on December 08, 2011, 11:46:33 am: So... what's the role of factions here anyway, if clans can fight for fiefs inside factions?
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Knute on December 08, 2011, 12:02:50 pm: Quote from: Vibe on December 08, 2011, 11:46:33 am
So... what's the role of factions here anyway, if clans can fight for fiefs inside factions?

All people in a faction would want to work together to take over other factions fiefs and expand outward until the entire map is their faction's color, just like in warband single player.

Clans within the faction might want to take over a fief in their home territory so they can have more control over it and gain the extra income from taxes and fees. The income would just go to the owner and he could share it with his clan, if he wanted to.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Vibe on December 08, 2011, 12:09:27 pm: Quote from: Knute on December 08, 2011, 12:02:50 pm
All people in a faction would want to work together to take over other factions fiefs and expand outward until the entire map is their faction's color, just like in warband single player.

Clans within the faction might want to take over a fief in their home territory so they can have more control over it and gain the extra income from taxes and fees. The income would just go to the owner and he could share it with his clan, if he wanted to.

So what's to stop all the carebears joining 2 or 3 different factions and just playing as one?
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Shadowren on December 08, 2011, 12:42:27 pm: Your idea wouldn't work well with the current set up of strat.

But its not a bad idea.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Knute on December 08, 2011, 01:01:49 pm: Quote from: Vibe on December 08, 2011, 12:09:27 pm
So what's to stop all the carebears joining 2 or 3 different factions and just playing as one?

Nothing. When they've destroyed the other 3 factions they would probably fight each other then. Plus consider anyone could join a faction, so they wouldn't always be one united front.

What do you need to do to not be considered a carebear? Fight everyone at once? Everyone has allies. :)
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Freland on December 08, 2011, 02:32:47 pm: I really like the idea of having a predefined faction. But I think you should not be able to choose your faction but be assigned to a factio by some sort of autobalance (although this would be hard to code probably). Of course everyone from the same crpg clan should be in the same (of the 6) factions.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Zaharist on December 08, 2011, 02:34:35 pm: Quote
- most gear is too expensive
- cavalry gone

I totally disagree.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: dodnet on December 08, 2011, 02:40:51 pm: Quote from: Zaharist on December 08, 2011, 02:34:35 pm
I totally disagree.

Says the member of one of the biggest clans with a shitload of members, villages and money :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: RandomDude on December 08, 2011, 03:18:48 pm: Not saying I like or dislike the idea but it would be a great way to split up the current clan alliances (which seem to be very similar every round).

Now if you choose swadia and your old friends choose nords, you will fight each other but there wont be any bad blood as you havent "betrayed" each other, you're just fighting on different sides.

Bah no1 will go for this anyway.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Zaharist on December 08, 2011, 03:19:12 pm: Quote from: dodnet on December 08, 2011, 02:40:51 pm
Says the member of one of the biggest factions with (maybe) best faction leaders and (maybe) best faction strat-map teamwork :rolleyes:
Fixed

(click to show/hide)
Sure, amount of players is vital, but faction management is the clue. Only good leader can manage such big faction and do it rationally so that everyone know what they should do, and they do it exactly how they are supposed to.

Everyone knows that at current strat small factions are hopeless, but still their leaders do not cooperate, do not team up. Most of them just whine about carebears. That shows their management abilities too.

Frankly speaking I don't like this idea at all.
Phyrex's suggestions (imo) are much better.

Also
Quote
- most gear is too expensive
- cavalry gone
- nobody signs up for village defenses
- no castle/town sieges
won't change with suggested faction system.
I don't like "cheaper gear" suggestions. Having well equiped, experienced and numerous army able to fight was never an easy task.
If you don't want to work hard to make "professional" army, then ercruit some peasants. Cheap gear.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Tristan on December 08, 2011, 03:47:06 pm: Your idea is not bad, yet not the best. Phyrex idea is better imo.

@Zaharist:
To a certain extent I agree with you. It is a quite impressive organization some of the larger clans have, and even more impressive their members follow orders to the letter. However, saying that smaller clans should just group up is naive. It's sorta like saying to EU, why don't you just become one country? Even though it is rational economically speaking, emotion and cultural divide causes that it is not as easy to do.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Elmokki on December 08, 2011, 04:55:03 pm: God no. Player defined alliances cause more drama and awesomeness.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Knute on December 08, 2011, 06:32:40 pm: Quote from: RandomDude on December 08, 2011, 03:18:48 pm
Not saying I like or dislike the idea but it would be a great way to split up the current clan alliances (which seem to be very similar every round).

That's what I was aiming for, some way to create a little separation between the faction someone chooses to join in Strategus and their regular cRPG clan. It would be like loading up a native multiplayer server and instead of choosing between 2 teams, getting to choose between 6 teams so all the people who like playing horse archers would be on one team, western knights the other and so on. Cheaper gear giving everyone access to what they like right away.

If this idea sucks, that's ok. I've just recently noticed more casual players who were excited about this round of strat in the beginning losing interest as all the villages get locked down, so wanted to throw it out there.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Dehitay on December 08, 2011, 06:33:33 pm: Is Freland the only one to notice the obvious problem. All this means is defining alliances beforehand and not being able to change them afterwards unless you can switch factions. Basically, this limits it to 6 alliances, however, it will make it a hell of a lot more obvious who's in one alliance. So the whole carebear conspiracy could be proven true or false.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on December 08, 2011, 06:43:52 pm: I think it's a pretty good idea, would have to be tweaked and refined. Something has to be done to mix it up. If not 6 factions, maybe 10 or 12. I especially like the idea of having a "clans" within the faction. So a c-rpg clan (any current "faction" for strategus) would basically be like a "lord" in single player who can be neutral or belong to a faction. There should be a way to vote for marshall and king of the faction and both should come with benefits. Basically whoever the "leader" of your c-rpg clan, would be like a lord for one of the 6 factions and everyone in that clan would be like the people you recruit under your command. If one of the clans is voted "king" of the faction, then the clan's leader would be the king.

If you were a neutral faction you couldn't start up a new faction, but you should be able to control territory still. You could basically be a neutral mercenary faction, and if you wanted to keep your land you'd probably want to make friends with a faction. Would also be cool if there was official "relations" between the factions like single player, but individuals would still be able to provoke war. There should also be a log of events for your faction, and if you didn't like one of the clans of the faction starting a war, all the "lords" (leaders of the individual clans in the faction) would be able to vote to keep or kick the aggressive clan out of the faction.

Lots of potential, but like I say would need a lot of input and revisions to make it work. I think it's better than the current setup.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: Slamz on December 11, 2011, 12:42:54 am: I think both team-based and clan-based models have merit.

EVE: clan based.
POTBS / Battleground Europe / Planetside / DAOC / Warhammer: team based.

Team based has been the more popular model for developers but it's hard to ignore the fact that arguably the most successful PvP game of all time is EVE, and it's clan based. And EVE has some serious flaws, so I think it's telling that it has prospered for so long. I think part of it is that "clan loyalty" trumps "team loyalty". Long after the players of the team based games have stopped caring, the players of EVE still have clan loyalty and will sometimes come back just to fight for their clan again.

I'm in a small clan in Strategus. We have maybe 12 active players and we own one fief, which we gained and hope to hold with the help of allies (they show up for our battles; we show up for theirs). I feel this gives me more personal interest in Strategus than if I was simply in some broad faction.

What I think team-based setups do is help bring in solo players and very small groups. Since you are automatically in a team, you can contribute without directly needing to join a clan (or really be social at all). And there is merit to that. But I don't think it builds the long term personal connections that a clan based game can deliver. Clan based games force you to build social connections to survive and while that may turn away a lot of solo players, the players who DO build those connections tend to stick around.

Again, EVE is the shining example of this. Not to derail the conversation, but EVE ship combat is crap any way you slice it. The mechanics are just too simple and boring. But the game has been growing year after year because, I think, of the social connections it forces people to make. Once you're "in", you don't want to get out, and if you do get out, there's always someone you know still in that's tempting you to come back.

I think too many developers look to the short term benefits of team based gameplay and overlook the long term benefits of clan based gameplay.
Title: Re: Another Strategus Suggestion: 6 factions only
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on December 11, 2011, 01:00:09 am: Its been done to death I think the fact that groups form on the forum an in the game and then clan it up in strat is a million times better than predefined groups.