cRPG
cRPG => cRPG Technical problems => Topic started by: DaveUKR on November 27, 2011, 04:32:40 pm
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This is the list of problems that should be solved. Some of them have no exact suggestion of how to fix them, so I ask you to help me and devs to find the best solution.
This list will be updated/fulfilled during time.
1) The angle of attack using a lance on horseback. It's currently 40 degrees and it causes lots of problems for lancers. It should be 20 degrees more. I know that there is no solution how to add these degrees currently, but maybe they will appear in future.
2) Air friction value should be different for different classes of ranged. Bolts should have the least air friction (for example index 1.00), arrows should have a little bit bigger friction than bolts (i.e. 1.25) and throwing weapons should have the biggest air friction among both previous projectiles (i.e. 2.0).
3) Slot system should be fixed. Nowadays it causes a lot of problems, especially with ranged weapons. First of all, instant reloading bug is still possible to do. Second thing is that ammo often disappears when you try to pick something.
4) Armour penetration factor should be different for bows and crossbows. Obviously, bows should have a lesser factor. Not to make it a massive nerf they might have a slight damage bonus.
5) Something should be done with polearms. Nowadays they're the most bugged weapons.
a) Polestun should be removed or the speed of polearms should be nerfed somehow.
b) The animation speed of the thrust is way too fast.
c) Some long weapons should be unbalanced or speed should be nerfed
d) Long spears/pikes and other poking polearms still have ridiculous thrusts. Maybe the rotation speed with the pressed attack button should be defined by the weapon's attack speed.
e) Most of polearms are still way too powerful (like Bec de Corbin)
6) Crossbows should be rebalanced.
a) The missile speed of all crossbows except Arbalest should be buffed
b) Arbalest needs +1 accuracy. Nowadays it has the same accuracy as a Heavy Crossbow (due to damage dissynchronization. 4 points of damage are equal of -1 accuracy)
c) Make 2slot crossbows a bit more expensive (like +500 of gold)
d) Nerf the damage of Heavy Crossbow slightly (like -2 of damage)
e) Make it impossible to use crossbows (except Hunting Crossbow) without wpf
f) 1 slot and 2 slot crossbows should have different animations (light crossbows should be reloaded in the same way like on horseback and different animations will fix a delay bug: it takes way too much time to start shooting)
g) Arbalest and Heavy Crossbow should have different models
7) Make a "Drop all ammo" button or "Drop all equipment". This will fix an issue of using a ladder and having a slot occupied by invisible ladder which you can't drop/use.
8) Add some penalties for TeamKills like it was before (i.e. to pay upkeep of some items of the one you've killed)
9) Add weight penalties for Riding and Shield skills so heavy armoured persons would feel the difference. And maybe you should reduce the requirements for all shields/horses by one so this will give an opportunity for peasants to use better shields with shitty gear and to give light armoured persons some advantages.
10) Fix the shield skill. Shield skill should not define the armour points of the shield, only hitpoints. It should not give such big bonuses to the bearer of the shield, make it different from the current system so the stats of the shield should change something and people would be able to choose the best shield to be the most effective in different situations. Fix the forcefield and remove the arrows/bolts getting stuck in steel shields.
11) Fix the animation of onehanded weapons. First of all, the left swing is made in a such way that you don't have to aim for the head to actually hit the head. The left attack is more like an overhead. Second, onehanded animation on horseback should be changed as well (especially the thrust, which is ridiculously fast)
12) Curved weapons have an illusion of phantom reach due to warband mechanics, because it's impossible to give curved hitboxes to the weapon. Maybe it's possible to move a model of the weapon a little bit further (using like 10% angle so it wouldn't make an impression of phantom reach)
13) Pressing an attack button should actually slow down you more than it is now (especially horsemen and archers). This will help to fix the problem with unrealistic horsemen riding without hands and archers with big bows being able to kite like that. But in over all it won't nerf any one, will make it just a bit more smart.
14) 0 damaging arrows/hits should not interrupt you.
// Discuss
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Will add some points about the weather as well, totally forgot about that.
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+remove ladders from battle.
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+remove ladders from battle.
Will add something about ladders as well. They don't need to be removed but fixed obviously
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They do need to be removed from battle mode.
Don't waste your time thinking about 'fixing' it, that's the easiest and simplest way to deal with the issue.
End of story.
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4) penetration
pentration hrhrhr visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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you forgot to mention that backpedaling is too fast.
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class of OP: arbalest/2h
the lancer thingy leaves me puzzled though? his alt? or just a diversion?
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Very good points overall. Don't make chambering an attack decrease your movement speed any futher, atleast not on foot.
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3) Slot system should be fixed. Nowadays it causes a lot of problems, especially with ranged weapons. First of all, instant reloading bug is still possible to do. Second thing is that ammo often disappears when you try to pick something.
Agree it's pretty fucked up now.
5) Something should be done with polearms. Nowadays they're the most bugged weapons.
a) Polestun should be removed or the speed of polearms should be nerfed somehow.
b) The animation speed of the thrust is way too fast.
c) Some long weapons should be unbalanced or speed should be nerfed
d) Long spears/pikes and other poking polearms still have ridiculous thrusts. Maybe the rotation speed with the pressed attack button should be defined by the weapon's attack speed.
e) Most of polearms are still way too powerful (like Bec de Corbin)
Insta stab is even more gay than my whole clan :lol: I wouldn't mind fixing a bit pole stun and making it shorter, even slight change would be appreciated.
8) Add some penalties for TeamKills like it was before (i.e. to pay upkeep of some items of the one you've killed)
Teamkills happens, 50% of them is victim foult, so no I can't agree with it.
9) Add weight penalties for Riding and Shield skills so heavy armoured persons would feel the difference. And maybe you should reduce the requirements for all shields/horses by one so this will give an opportunity for peasants to use better shields with shitty gear and to give light armoured persons some advantages.
Heavy armored cav should get some speed penalty, but I don't get what are you talking about with shield skill, shield slowes you down, holding it up does affect your movement , there are shield that requires 3 shield skill and they are pretty good, like kite shield, brown lion and board shield.
10) Fix the shield skill. Shield skill should not define the armour points of the shield, only hitpoints. It should not give such big bonuses to the bearer of the shield, make it different from the current system so the stats of the shield should change something and people would be able to choose the best shield to be the most effective in different situations. Fix the forcefield and remove the arrows/bolts getting stuck in steel shields.
Shield skill reduces damage to shields by 8% per level, it doesn't affect its armour. What do you mean by arrows/bolts getting stuck in steel shield, I can't recall if I ever used any of whose so I wouldn't mind small explanation, well bucklers do have extraordinary big forcield compared to their size, if that's your point.
11) Fix the animation of onehanded weapons. First of all, the left swing is made in a such way that you don't have to aim for the head to actually hit the head. The left attack is more like an overhead. Second, onehanded animation on horseback should be changed as well (especially the thrust, which is ridiculously fast)
If something has to be changed with animations it would be 2h animations, they are fucked up and way to exploitable. Most of left swings from one handets does hit your opponents head, but it's pretty short.
12) Curved weapons have an illusion of phantom reach due to warband mechanics, because it's impossible to give curved hitboxes to the weapon.
That would finally end all the whining, but I guess it would be easier to fix models of whose weapons, keeping the illusion of its curved nature but making it straight from its hilt to tip, for example like niuweidao.
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3) Slot system should be fixed. Nowadays it causes a lot of problems, especially with ranged weapons. First of all, instant reloading bug is still possible to do. Second thing is that ammo often disappears when you try to pick something.
How? Two-Handed Swords for crossbowmen? :)
I think the slot system is good.
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this is a bug forum and less than half the stuff you posted are bugs. take your complains & suggestions to the proper forum
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still actual! Added some more.
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add
remove xbows reloading while moving
attack\throw while jump
reduce moving speed (- 3 athletic for example, cannot be lower then 0) if you have any wpf in xbow\archery
rebalance armours close to "plates"
rebalance arrows (tatars now making more damage to light armours then mw bodkins)
slow moving speed when you moving behind (имеется ввиду когда пятишся, возможно изза моего кривого англиского не правильно обьяснил)
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class of OP: arbalest/2h
the lancer thingy leaves me puzzled though? his alt? or just a diversion?
still actual! Added some more.
True for both :mrgreen:
The stuff that not actually nerfs everything but the classes you play i agree with like curved weapons but there is no real solution for that.
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True for both :mrgreen:
The stuff that not actually nerfs everything but the classes you play i agree with like curved weapons but there is no real solution for that.
Not possible to move the skin of the model so it hits in the middle of the scimitar curve?
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Nice list of changes in the OP
On crossbows though I think a few things need to be looked at, and it needs to be looked at from a neutral position
First off looms..+4 damage, +3 accuracy, +4 missile speed . Bolts..+5 damage .+9 piercing damage on a weapon that could 1 shot regardless, and easier shots. This is dumb imo for a competitive game like M&B. Should be lower bonuses for looms first of all, and brought more in line with melee weapon looms.
Second, ranged piercing damage should come at a premium imo. It should come because you did something decent ingame, not point and click with fast projectiles. The ranged mechanics in the game are awful without stuff like slow projectiles (leading the target and allowing for flight time by aiming higher). 1 shot easymode kills are one of the worst things about cRPG. So if its going to be piercing I think the projectiles should be harder to land. The damage is already way too high and requires zero build adjustments from melee mode, just dump some points into crossbow WPF. Even with 0 wpf you regularly see people picking up a crossbow and killing.
M&B to me is about player vs player. Not standing miles away from the action pew pewing until you hit something
This goes for archers too. Piercing damage from ranged is a bit OTT, and the stun on hit that comes regardless of damage could also be adjusted. I would be tempted to take the stun out completely, would be better for team hits too
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accuracy points are given to prevent crossbows loosing accuracy because of damage (4 damage ~ -1 accuracy). You should also remember that nothing affects the damage of the crossbow, unlike other weapons. Have a look, i.e. danish greatsword (top tier 2h) with 40 cut damage gets +3 damage on mw (that's 7.5% of the base damage). Plus you should count bonuses from PS which are very significant (8% each) so in the end Masterwork arbalest gets less worthy bonus than a danish greatsword.
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The damage is still very high regardless of looms or lack of "powerstrike" type skill. You are also not put at any real disadvantage in melee for that high ranged damage and can also take a nice 2 hander. Mace is super powerful for 1 slot, 99 speed, 33 blunt and free knockdowns. The crossbow class is just an anomaly in cRPG to me. Its not really a class on its own like Archer or Cav or 2 hand, its a hybrid with easiest range and good melee.
Ranged piercing, 1 or 2 hit kills, point and click..its just got no place in M&B to me, unless it has some kind of balancing involved like a crossbow skill. Dumping some points into crossbow wpf is nothing really. You might have a bit lower PS or lower 2 hander but its not really balanced like its a unique class. You don't even need that many points in crossbow as you see people with 0 wpf pick them up and kill
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6) Crossbows should be rebalanced.
a) The missile speed of all crossbows except Arbalest should be buffed
b) Arbalest needs +1 accuracy. Nowadays it has the same accuracy as a Heavy Crossbow (due to damage dissynchronization. 4 points of damage are equal of -1 accuracy)
c) Make 2slot crossbows a bit more expensive (like +500 of gold)
d) Nerf the damage of Heavy Crossbow slightly (like -2 of damage)
e) Make it impossible to use crossbows (except Hunting Crossbow) without wpf
f) 1 slot and 2 slot crossbows should have different animations (light crossbows should be reloaded in the same way like on horseback and different animations will fix a delay bug: it takes way too much time to start shooting)
g) Arbalest and Heavy Crossbow should have different models
I am a dedicated crossbowman for more than 10 character generations now.
I can wholeheartedly agree with E. The crossbow doesn't stand alone as a skill that requires investment and it's quite ridiculous when you can build a character with 15 STR, wear a bunch of heavy armor, and successfully use ANY crossbow. In order to USE a crossbow you should need to wear leather gloves or no gloves and in order to have ANY accuracy that's somewhat reliable you should need WPF significant enough to mitigate a very hefty penalty for wearing head armor. I leave the actual math up to the devs but suffice to say please try to imagine aiming and operating a crossbow while wearing lobster gauntlets and a sugarloaf helm -- it's a laughable concept and not at all funny that it still works in todays CRPG just because the character has the strength to operate the crossbow.
P.S. -- the same goes for archery. Pulling a tensioned bowstring while wearing any hand armor beyond a glove and aiming a while wearing head armor should be so difficult it's not worth trying. You will then see a major distinction in the equipment being used by ranged classes. Range is the advantage and armor needs to be left for melee builds.
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What if the angle of the lancer decreases as the horse goes faster?
And if the horse is not moving, then he can reach in wider range.