cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Keshian on February 12, 2011, 05:09:58 pm

Title: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Keshian on February 12, 2011, 05:09:58 pm
This thread is about what people think is really important to bring more game balance to cRPG (not crazy new ideas, but rather tweaks).  Please post what you think are essential small adjustments to improve game balance and maybe by consensus of opinion we can help chadz with upcoming patches/updates.  Please provide reasons as well.  Please dont post what you disagree with what someone thinks needs changed, just post what you think needs changed and we will see from a consensus.

1.  Remove polearm stun for poleaxes and axes.  Currently sideswings get the same benefit of stunning your opponent that the traditional thrust with a spear does.  It makes elegant poleaxes and their ilk not only do more cut damage with greater reach then 2H swords (with block stun because of heaver weapons) at around same speed, but also will polearm stun opponents so that you have to block twice before swinging back every ime you get hit.  Doesnt make much sense for these weapons as theya re cut damage just like swords and are primarily swung not thrust.  Also with that the elegant poleaxe should not be a balanced weapon as it it a long giant axe like the others.

2.  Allow bows to hold shots for more then 1/2-1 second before reticule rapidly expands and shots go randomly haywire left/right/up/down of where you are aiming.  Maybe keep it for longbow (very tough to pull so harder to hold shot), but when you have 8 powerdraw with a weak 20 pound khergit bow you should be able to hold your shots for slightly longer allowing you to track and aim.  Maybe add a few more cut damage to longbow as most damage is from the pierce with arrows and the slight difference in cut damage is hardly noticeable when hitting targets so currently over half the archers use strong bow (shoot speed still decent, much higher rate of fire, and slightly less cut damage).  Return some diversity in choosing bows by having real tradeoffs.  Right now lot of quick shots, but if you have a weak bow you should be able to hold your shot for a longer time and actually aim.  part of the problem too is with the slower draw speeds it makes it incredibly easy to dodge archers as they have to release within a second of drawing their arrow or have a shot go haywire.

3.  Switch up the xp gain.  Make it 1500 base again, but with only a 5% xp boost per retirement instead of 10%.  As of now overwhelming advantage to multiple retirees and highly discouraging to new players as going from level 30 to 31 is a nightmare at gen 1 and 2.  Maybe consider lowering level 31 to 7.5 million xp, still a grind but not so mind-numbing for new players.

4.  Readjust % chance of blockcrush, masterworking long iron mace and bar mace with high powerstrike makes them 100% crushthrough with mid 90s speed and length so no tradeoff on speed like long great maul or speed and length like great maul and mallet.

5.  Reduce damage of throwing weapons or switch to cut like archers, almost half the people ons ervers are throwers hyrbid or full as they are instant kills with anything a javelin and above with high pierce and the powerthrow boost.

6.  Readjust the wpf cost, as of now massive advantage to hybrid builds with most people going hybrids because of how cheap a second class compared to 10 more points in main class.  Bring back diversity, not everyone should be hybrid, just like not everyone should be pure class.  Maybe not so aggressive wpf cap or make it a flat rate that ends up with around the same current maximum wpf by making low level and high level wpf cost the same moderate cost of say 5 wpf each.  Jsut some tweaking is needed as right now wpf for 1-100 is same as paying for 130 to 145 on main class.  No-brainer for everyone to go hyrbid at that point as no real tradeioff with regard to wpf.  Throwers can throw almosta s well as pure throwers and fight melee at almsot exact same speeda s pure melee.  Get best of both worlds with little traderoff.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: IG_Saint on February 12, 2011, 05:35:18 pm
1. I've never really had a problem with polearm stun, however I have seen more and more complaints about it both here and in game. So I wouldn't say no to the cutting polearms losing the stun.
2. Not an archers, so can't comment on this.
3. Yes.
4. I believe the iron and bar maces are losing the crushthrough ability. That should be enough, the other crushthrough weapons are balanced by their speed and/or reach.
5. I'd rather see some proper animations for throwing and especially reloading. No more machinegun firing with axes magically appearing in your hand. And maybe a slight damage reduction.
6. Yes. There is simply no reason to go pure other than style. The amount of wpf a pure gains over a hybrid just does not compare to a secondary (read ranged) weapon.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Gorath on February 12, 2011, 05:43:59 pm
6.  Readjust the wpf cost, as of now massive advantage to hybrid builds with most people going hybrids because of how cheap a second class compared to 10 more points in main class.  Bring back diversity, not everyone should be hybrid, just like not everyone should be pure class.  Maybe not so aggressive wpf cap or make it a flat rate that ends up with around the same current maximum wpf by making low level and high level wpf cost the same moderate cost of say 5 wpf each.  Jsut some tweaking is needed as right now wpf for 1-100 is same as paying for 130 to 145 on main class.  No-brainer for everyone to go hyrbid at that point as no real tradeioff with regard to wpf.  Throwers can throw almosta s well as pure throwers and fight melee at almsot exact same speeda s pure melee.  Get best of both worlds with little traderoff.

This would actually reduce diversity on the field.
Under your changes:  2h, pole, archer, 1h, thrower, xbowmen.  6 classes.  Hybrids would be pointless (unless they go with option 2).  Currently we have those 6 classes in addition to 2h/archer, 2h/thrower, 2h/xbow, pole/archer, pole/thrower, pole/xbow, 1h/archer, 1h/thrower, 1h/xbow for double the effective "classes" on the field.  Now = more diversity.  Proposed change = 50% of current diversity.

or (and this is the smarter choice)

Hybrids will adapt and put no wpf into the 2ndary weapon (throwing or xbow).
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: IG_Saint on February 12, 2011, 06:03:58 pm
This would actually reduce diversity on the field.
Under your changes:  2h, pole, archer, 1h, thrower, xbowmen.  6 classes.  Hybrids would be pointless (unless they go with option 2).  Currently we have those 6 classes in addition to 2h/archer, 2h/thrower, 2h/xbow, pole/archer, pole/thrower, pole/xbow, 1h/archer, 1h/thrower, 1h/xbow for double the effective "classes" on the field.  Now = more diversity.  Proposed change = 50% of current diversity.

or (and this is the smarter choice)

Hybrids will adapt and put no wpf into the 2ndary weapon (throwing or xbow).

The other option would be to buff pures, but I remember you being dead set against that as well from the other hybrid thread. Do you still think that the current system, where being a hybrid is simply a far beter choice, is fine? I'd like to see more of a balance between choosing pure or hybrid.

and about the smarter choice, I'd also like to see 0 wpf throwing get a nerf. I'm not a fan of pt increasing accuracy as well as damage.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Keshian on February 12, 2011, 09:31:05 pm
Also, we could reduce all weapons damage by a third so we get more melee quality fighting (blocking, etc.) rather than spamming for the 1-hit kill.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Dravic on February 12, 2011, 09:43:10 pm
(click to show/hide)

I agree to all points!

 I will think about joining your fanclub (joking) =D
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Immolarian on February 12, 2011, 10:36:25 pm
Also, we could reduce all weapons damage by a third so we get more melee quality fighting (blocking, etc.) rather than spamming for the 1-hit kill.

Worst idea ever.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Dravic on February 12, 2011, 11:22:01 pm
Ok, i missed that part:

Quote
Also, we could reduce all weapons damage by a third so we get more melee quality fighting (blocking, etc.) rather than spamming for the 1-hit kill.

Worst way to fix things I've ever seen.

NO JOINING YOUR FANCLUB! + thanks for showing me that part, Immolarian ;)
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Perceval on February 12, 2011, 11:30:35 pm
power throw should REDUCE accuracy.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Dravic on February 12, 2011, 11:33:11 pm
power throw should REDUCE accuracy.

No. Should simply neither increase nor decrease accuracy - only wpfs should increase accuracy + it should be worth of increasing wpfs for throwing (not only throwing speed, but really significantly difference in reticule's size between 50 wpf in throwing and 150...)

EDIT

And i forgot about NERFING THROWING DMG A BIT, simply:

-20% of dmg to each weapon EXCLUDING tier 0 (stones) and 1 (darts, shurikens, snowflakes, wardarts). So everything above snowflakes = -20% in dmg nerf.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Whalen207 on February 13, 2011, 12:04:38 am
1. I would go for a reduction on the stun, maybe keep it for the weaker axes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
5. Throwing weapons are almost perfect right now. You people have to realize how inaccurate the life of a thrower really is. Even with Javelins we can't break the strong Round Shields everyone is toting around and our projectiles are slow. The only reason throwing is so rampant is that you have little need for WPF. I think WPF should increase accuracy dramatically and the base accuracy (WPF = 1) should have a huge reticule.
6. Yes. Pure classes have almost died out. Hybrids are nice but... I would like to see some players returning to pure builds.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Elmetiacos on February 13, 2011, 12:10:09 am
7. Examine whether or not the hitboxes are where they should be, and if this is why lots of players feel blocks and strikes are going wrong occasionally.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Noble Crassius on February 13, 2011, 12:10:30 am
Also, we could reduce all weapons damage by a third so we get more melee quality fighting (blocking, etc.) rather than spamming for the 1-hit kill.
Greatest idea ever! Could we fit in a re-balancing of the internal shield balance? because let's face it for all practical purposes the Round Shield line is the best.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: UrLukur on February 13, 2011, 12:27:51 am
(click to show/hide)
1.yes.
2.not really, changing animation to nocking then drawing would be better.
3.or rather, keep the +10% but make it harder for high gen players to retire, perhaps increase required lvl ?
4.readjust crushing mechanic, remove stun from it, lower the passing damage.
5.rather increase reduction value to make high damage less likely.
6.no, it's fine as it is. purre have more gold to spend on equipment, rather increase prices of weapons a bit, ranged weapons and top tier weapons for sure.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: John on February 13, 2011, 12:30:16 am
I agree with 1-4. 
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Kophka on February 13, 2011, 01:16:11 am
Yes. Pure classes have almost died out. Hybrids are nice but... I would like to see some players returning to pure builds.

It seems to me that cRPG has lost most of it's RPG elements/or RPG'ers. Throwing has ALWAYS been awesome guys, if anything, it's worse than before. But before, we had tons of people playing Knights, Saracen Archers, Byzantine nobles, etc etc etc, characters that had absolutely nothing to tie them into a throwing hybrid. Sticking to your theme had more common emphasis, rather than "what will give me the most advantages today?". Not sayin' it's better or worse now that that is mostly dead, but it's not what it used to be.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Rumblood on February 13, 2011, 01:43:42 am
I agree with 1,2,4,5. I dont agree with 3. I agree that 6 needs re-working, but only at the top. With people considering lvl 31 to be the "endgame" level, it should be easy to figure out how to give the "pure" builds the WPF they need, without also giving more to the hybrids.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Zaelious on February 13, 2011, 02:21:35 am
It seems to me that cRPG has lost most of it's RPG elements/or RPG'ers. Throwing has ALWAYS been awesome guys, if anything, it's worse than before. But before, we had tons of people playing Knights, Saracen Archers, Byzantine nobles, etc etc etc, characters that had absolutely nothing to tie them into a throwing hybrid. Sticking to your theme had more common emphasis, rather than "what will give me the most advantages today?". Not sayin' it's better or worse now that that is mostly dead, but it's not what it used to be.


Completely agree.. The update was just too much change at once and really ruined this game for a lot of people, more than half the amount of people who played pre-patch have quit.. Servers so dead compared to then. This game is more like an FPS honestly now, it's getting a bit more like Native, which isn't what made it popular, the RPG did!
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: EponiCo on February 13, 2011, 03:09:51 am
Can't really agree.
Were all those archers with halberdes, plate gauntlets and leather armor or the plated greatsworders with sniper crossbow before the patch rping? Lets face it, RP possibilities are kind of limited anyway, what you can do is stick with your style, and I can't say I see less people doing that than before.
People just switched their sidearm really and with lighter armor overall the high damage spamable throwing weapons are now a better sidearm than ever. Who cares that they can't be shot at range when you just want to spam them for a few cheap kills before you get into a melee?
Thing is simply things that give a huge advantage to anyone using them shouldn't exist. If people want to play a thrower or archer or cavalryman, they can play it just fine when the disadvantages balance out the advantages, anyone else will not bother to pick it up then.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Z_E_N on February 13, 2011, 03:49:16 am
I heavily agree with #6.

It isn't just "pures" that are at a disadvantage, but any AGI character.

The only thing going for an AGI character is their attack speed, but as it is right now the difference between a 27/12 with 4 WM and a 15/24 with 8 WM when it comes to attack speed is pretty much nothing.  Sure...those extra ~25 to 30 points that you will actually get for spending FOUR extra skill points might help a tiny bit, but not enough to give you any advantage over a high PS character that can kill you in one shot because you decided to go AGI.

Pre-patch the AGI spam was a bit intense, but now; people attack so slowly it's like you are playing against all peasants.  Perhaps a rebalance of the scaling just a tiny bit?
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Seprest on February 13, 2011, 08:49:17 am
I like all these points.  Any move, even slight balance changes, would be a move for the better.

And to the guy above me, people attack very fast :)  just go back to native and see what you consider "slow"  People dont swing 2h's in giant arcs in split seconds.  high lvls can still swing 2h as fast as 1h most of the time, if they spec right.  People attack slowly, deal with it, because it's not really that slow at all!  pick up an 80 lb sword!
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Whalen207 on February 13, 2011, 08:54:44 am
the RP
the RP
the RP

Why not make an RP server? Just a large town map where you...
RP..
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Matey on February 13, 2011, 11:01:21 am
just to add to the crushthrough thing... great maul needs to take more strength. its retarded when people can have 4-5 powerstrike and 7-9 athletics and have 100% crushthrough with a great maul... it makes it impossible to beat people who use it if they are good enough at manual blocking (at least in a 1v1 situation) they simply go: Block, Overhead, Block, Overhead. eventually they will hit you because you cant get out of their range when they are faster than you... and you cant block them because they 100% crush. i can deal with the 100% crush... but it should take 7+ powerstrike and as such cut down their athletics and wm enough that they cant keep you in their range all the time and match you swing speed. (sorry to a certain someone (who is cool.. but evil)... but you must be nerfed!)
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Kalam on February 13, 2011, 11:11:17 am
Why not make an RP server? Just a large town map where you...
RP..


Yup. This would be nice, or at least a tavern map. As well as a Full Invasion type thing.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Punisher on February 13, 2011, 01:01:40 pm
1. I agree, only blunt weapons should stun.
2. Can't comment, I'm not archer.
3. Agreed, the gap between high-gen people and low-gen is too wide, just think that a gen11 char gets double XP (basically they can do 1-31 in the same time a gen1 does 1-30). The 8.7 mil for 31 it's ok, lowering it would make retirements even faster.
4. Barmace and Long Iron Mace already announced to lose crushthrough next patch. The other maces are balanced by their low speed and range.
5. Agreed, throwing should be switched to cut damage, and they should also get another slower animation, it's retarded that a thrower with no WPF can shoot faster than an archer.
6. Agreed, hybrids should be jack of all trades, masters of none, now they are just jack of all trades with no disadvantages.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: DoggsofWar on February 13, 2011, 02:07:38 pm
In my opinion 2H/Polearm spamming is a issue that could be fixed by adding a pause if swing misses. Those weapons are long and heavy and should in no way be able to run into a group and spam away.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Keshian on February 13, 2011, 05:07:40 pm
just to add to the crushthrough thing... great maul needs to take more strength. its retarded when people can have 4-5 powerstrike and 7-9 athletics and have 100% crushthrough with a great maul... it makes it impossible to beat people who use it if they are good enough at manual blocking (at least in a 1v1 situation) they simply go: Block, Overhead, Block, Overhead. eventually they will hit you because you cant get out of their range when they are faster than you... and you cant block them because they 100% crush. i can deal with the 100% crush... but it should take 7+ powerstrike and as such cut down their athletics and wm enough that they cant keep you in their range all the time and match you swing speed. (sorry to a certain someone (who is cool.. but evil)... but you must be nerfed!)

What about increasing the strength requirements for weapons and armor.  So to use some kind of long heavy maul you need 21 strength, blacka rmor would require 24 strength, etc.  especially for the high tier weapons and armor so you can't just use every weapon and armor in the game with an 18/18 build?
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Dravic on February 13, 2011, 05:27:32 pm
What about increasing the strength requirements for weapons and armor.  So to use some kind of long heavy maul you need 21 strength, blacka rmor would require 24 strength, etc.  especially for the high tier weapons and armor so you can't just use every weapon and armor in the game with an 18/18 build?

I agree.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Pavel on February 13, 2011, 06:25:40 pm
This thread is about what people think is really important to bring more game balance to cRPG (not crazy new ideas, but rather tweaks).  Please post what you think are essential small adjustments to improve game balance and maybe by consensus of opinion we can help chadz with upcoming patches/updates.  Please provide reasons as well.  Please dont post what you disagree with what someone thinks needs changed, just post what you think needs changed and we will see from a consensus.

1.  Remove polearm stun for poleaxes and axes.  Currently sideswings get the same benefit of stunning your opponent that the traditional thrust with a spear does.  It makes elegant poleaxes and their ilk not only do more cut damage with greater reach then 2H swords (with block stun because of heaver weapons) at around same speed, but also will polearm stun opponents so that you have to block twice before swinging back every ime you get hit.  Doesnt make much sense for these weapons as theya re cut damage just like swords and are primarily swung not thrust.  Also with that the elegant poleaxe should not be a balanced weapon as it it a long giant axe like the others.

2.  Allow bows to hold shots for more then 1/2-1 second before reticule rapidly expands and shots go randomly haywire left/right/up/down of where you are aiming.  Maybe keep it for longbow (very tough to pull so harder to hold shot), but when you have 8 powerdraw with a weak 20 pound khergit bow you should be able to hold your shots for slightly longer allowing you to track and aim.  Maybe add a few more cut damage to longbow as most damage is from the pierce with arrows and the slight difference in cut damage is hardly noticeable when hitting targets so currently over half the archers use strong bow (shoot speed still decent, much higher rate of fire, and slightly less cut damage).  Return some diversity in choosing bows by having real tradeoffs.  Right now lot of quick shots, but if you have a weak bow you should be able to hold your shot for a longer time and actually aim.  part of the problem too is with the slower draw speeds it makes it incredibly easy to dodge archers as they have to release within a second of drawing their arrow or have a shot go haywire.

3.  Switch up the xp gain.  Make it 1500 base again, but with only a 5% xp boost per retirement instead of 10%.  As of now overwhelming advantage to multiple retirees and highly discouraging to new players as going from level 30 to 31 is a nightmare at gen 1 and 2.  Maybe consider lowering level 31 to 7.5 million xp, still a grind but not so mind-numbing for new players.

4.  Readjust % chance of blockcrush, masterworking long iron mace and bar mace with high powerstrike makes them 100% crushthrough with mid 90s speed and length so no tradeoff on speed like long great maul or speed and length like great maul and mallet.

5.  Reduce damage of throwing weapons or switch to cut like archers, almost half the people ons ervers are throwers hyrbid or full as they are instant kills with anything a javelin and above with high pierce and the powerthrow boost.

6.  Readjust the wpf cost, as of now massive advantage to hybrid builds with most people going hybrids because of how cheap a second class compared to 10 more points in main class.  Bring back diversity, not everyone should be hybrid, just like not everyone should be pure class.  Maybe not so aggressive wpf cap or make it a flat rate that ends up with around the same current maximum wpf by making low level and high level wpf cost the same moderate cost of say 5 wpf each.  Jsut some tweaking is needed as right now wpf for 1-100 is same as paying for 130 to 145 on main class.  No-brainer for everyone to go hyrbid at that point as no real tradeioff with regard to wpf.  Throwers can throw almosta s well as pure throwers and fight melee at almsot exact same speeda s pure melee.  Get best of both worlds with little traderoff.
only 1 & 2 ideas are good
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Joxer on February 13, 2011, 06:35:04 pm
7. Restore the arrow speed to what it was when I still specialized in long range anti-archer archery. I can't hit shit anymore. I used to take out moving targets from a distance too.   :cry:
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Dravic on February 13, 2011, 07:54:51 pm
Yes, that too, Joxer, i was saying this from the start of that shot speed nerf - chadz should give it back to us, + xbows should get a little shot speed buff, too, because bolts should always fly faster than shot from bow.


Even hunting bow should have more shot speed than, lets say, Strong bow, because it is XBOW.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Ache on February 13, 2011, 08:27:10 pm
1. Never had a problem with polearm stun. Disagree
2. Dont play archer anymore,but it seems like archery needs a little buff.
3. Why? It is like:"I want more xp so i can retire faster, but i want retirement to be nerfed." Disagree
4. Sooooo many people whine about it, so i started a barmace alt. At the moment i am the only one who is really good at killing with barmace, but it has many disadvantages, like it is unbalanced,short and i can crush only a few people with my 8 powerstrike. Disagree
5. Throwing lances with 50p damage or 60cut would be fine. Agree
6. Go for a pure build with less agi or a hybrid with high agi. Disagree

Bows and Xbows need a bit more damage, i cant oneshot someone with heavy xbow and steel bolts when he is using a helmet with more than 50 armor.  :rolleyes:
Horses are too expensive at the moment and the high tier horses need more bump damage again. Nobody is using stuff for 65.500 gold and 3000g repair cost when he cant hurt shit with it.
And maybe we could get the old archer animation back? The new is sucks a bit in my opinion. ^^
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on February 13, 2011, 10:14:58 pm
Disagree with the wpf hybrid thing. All my chars are "pure" (one weapon type) right now and they benefit that i only have to go to WM5 and use the skillpoints elsewhere. for example 24/15 with two strength skills at 8 and WM and another Ath skill at 5, or the other way around. I think these builds can easily compete with hybrids.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Xant on February 13, 2011, 10:32:08 pm

Completely agree.. The update was just too much change at once and really ruined this game for a lot of people, more than half the amount of people who played pre-patch have quit.. Servers so dead compared to then. This game is more like an FPS honestly now, it's getting a bit more like Native, which isn't what made it popular, the RPG did!

False. chadz posted actual numbers and they went from like 3200 unique keys per whatever to 2800-3000 unique keys per whatever.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Zaelious on February 13, 2011, 11:15:20 pm
You're trying to say that this game isn't half dead now? There would always be 2 or 3 full servers from around 1pm EST to 11 or so, and NA was always full until probably 4am EST.. Shit is dead now. Throwers needed a nerf in the beta patch, they're still OP as fuck too, that's one reason a lot of people are disgruntled with this entire fiasco of a patch. Went from being mostly inf to mostly throwers. Hint: Since throwers are so OP, the only good opposition is 1h/shield which most of the top players are =\
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Zaelious on February 13, 2011, 11:42:43 pm
Adding a bit extra.. No switching genders now and no changing names, that's another restriction put upon us for absolutely no reason, freedom of choice is part of RPG games, fuck sake.

WPF increase is horrible now, once you're like 120 you'll get to probably only 160 if you go pure build with level 24 agility.. Which would have been over 200 wpf pre-patch. That's all that needs to be changed, perhaps make throwing do a bit less damage.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: IG_Saint on February 14, 2011, 12:27:39 am
Adding a bit extra.. No switching genders now and no changing names, that's another restriction put upon us for absolutely no reason, freedom of choice is part of RPG games, fuck sake.

WPF increase is horrible now, once you're like 120 you'll get to probably only 160 if you go pure build with level 24 agility.. Which would have been over 200 wpf pre-patch. That's all that needs to be changed, perhaps make throwing do a bit less damage.

That's exactly what shouldn't be changed. The ridiculous amount of wpf pre-patch were the biggest problem cRPG had...
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Banok on February 14, 2011, 05:02:26 am
1.yes
2. archers fucking suck now cept ha.
3. YES
4. if barmace gets nerfed then 1h shield is going to be so OP. but yeah it needs reworking
5. yeah well i agree but they need more accuracy see my thread
6. it does piss me off but people having 200 wpf was kind of silly, but this nerfs pure archers so much so ok I agree.


4. Barmace and Long Iron Mace already announced to lose crushthrough next patch. The other maces are balanced by their low speed and range.


if this is true thats such bullshit! largely because Its like my only hierloom :/
 find me a quote please!
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Keshian on February 15, 2011, 06:05:50 am
Bumpity bump bump
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Soldier_of_God on February 16, 2011, 06:51:07 pm
I read through all these changes, and they all seem fairly reasonable; i support them all +1
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Konrax on February 17, 2011, 09:00:48 am
I agree with most of the ideas.

I think the wpf needs to be reworked to reward pure builds a bit more.

I also think adding a slow after a 2h/polearm swing miss would seriously reduce the spam of the non one handed melee weapons.

+1
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Wulzzz on February 17, 2011, 09:17:12 am
The only i care about is point 3.
Some people getting double XP at gen 11 is just sick.
..Even tho im gen 8 getting 70% more..it's too much.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Phyrex on February 17, 2011, 09:57:17 am
WFP cost curve should be tweaked.

The mod is already slower then Native and it has become quite dull and boring.

Not sure why it was nerfed in the first place, noobs having a hard time blocking or something?
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Casimir on February 17, 2011, 10:30:08 am
If polearm swing gets nerfed thrust and overhead should be buffed. Would make polearms more effective as support weapons and counterbalance any nerf they recieve.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: v/onMega on February 17, 2011, 11:23:46 am
WFP cost curve should be tweaked.

The mod is already slower then Native and it has become quite dull and boring.

Not sure why it was nerfed in the first place, noobs having a hard time blocking or something?

+1 For that.

Faster gamespeed = thrill.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Sir_Xormanec on February 17, 2011, 11:47:32 am
Agree's with the above statment

also archery does not need a buff
just people who play archer need more skill

Also up the wpf amount please it's way too slow to do anything from start
maybe add like a 30wpf to all skills as a start?

Also the cost of horses down especially the plated charger because in al honestly
it's a crap horse and ots absoloutly rediculous
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: DarkFox on February 17, 2011, 12:35:00 pm
This thread is about what people think is really important to bring more game balance to cRPG (not crazy new ideas, but rather tweaks).  Please post what you think are essential small adjustments to improve game balance and maybe by consensus of opinion we can help chadz with upcoming patches/updates.  Please provide reasons as well.  Please dont post what you disagree with what someone thinks needs changed, just post what you think needs changed and we will see from a consensus.

1.  Remove polearm stun for poleaxes and axes.  Currently sideswings get the same benefit of stunning your opponent that the traditional thrust with a spear does.  It makes elegant poleaxes and their ilk not only do more cut damage with greater reach then 2H swords (with block stun because of heaver weapons) at around same speed, but also will polearm stun opponents so that you have to block twice before swinging back every ime you get hit.  Doesnt make much sense for these weapons as theya re cut damage just like swords and are primarily swung not thrust.  Also with that the elegant poleaxe should not be a balanced weapon as it it a long giant axe like the others.

2.  Allow bows to hold shots for more then 1/2-1 second before reticule rapidly expands and shots go randomly haywire left/right/up/down of where you are aiming.  Maybe keep it for longbow (very tough to pull so harder to hold shot), but when you have 8 powerdraw with a weak 20 pound khergit bow you should be able to hold your shots for slightly longer allowing you to track and aim.  Maybe add a few more cut damage to longbow as most damage is from the pierce with arrows and the slight difference in cut damage is hardly noticeable when hitting targets so currently over half the archers use strong bow (shoot speed still decent, much higher rate of fire, and slightly less cut damage).  Return some diversity in choosing bows by having real tradeoffs.  Right now lot of quick shots, but if you have a weak bow you should be able to hold your shot for a longer time and actually aim.  part of the problem too is with the slower draw speeds it makes it incredibly easy to dodge archers as they have to release within a second of drawing their arrow or have a shot go haywire.

3.  Switch up the xp gain.  Make it 1500 base again, but with only a 5% xp boost per retirement instead of 10%.  As of now overwhelming advantage to multiple retirees and highly discouraging to new players as going from level 30 to 31 is a nightmare at gen 1 and 2.  Maybe consider lowering level 31 to 7.5 million xp, still a grind but not so mind-numbing for new players.

4.  Readjust % chance of blockcrush, masterworking long iron mace and bar mace with high powerstrike makes them 100% crushthrough with mid 90s speed and length so no tradeoff on speed like long great maul or speed and length like great maul and mallet.

5.  Reduce damage of throwing weapons or switch to cut like archers, almost half the people ons ervers are throwers hyrbid or full as they are instant kills with anything a javelin and above with high pierce and the powerthrow boost.

6.  Readjust the wpf cost, as of now massive advantage to hybrid builds with most people going hybrids because of how cheap a second class compared to 10 more points in main class.  Bring back diversity, not everyone should be hybrid, just like not everyone should be pure class.  Maybe not so aggressive wpf cap or make it a flat rate that ends up with around the same current maximum wpf by making low level and high level wpf cost the same moderate cost of say 5 wpf each.  Jsut some tweaking is needed as right now wpf for 1-100 is same as paying for 130 to 145 on main class.  No-brainer for everyone to go hyrbid at that point as no real tradeioff with regard to wpf.  Throwers can throw almosta s well as pure throwers and fight melee at almsot exact same speeda s pure melee.  Get best of both worlds with little traderoff.
I am so tired of this...
1.Why people dont understund that if there is something done in warban system its done for some reason.Without stun light weapon will become OP.Stun allows you to stop crazy feinting and spaming for second.For this second there are alot of things u can do.And polearms are very slow compare to 2h swords.
2.Bows have a long balancing story in crpg so I cant say anything about it.
3.Its not nightmare.One week to get 30 and one week to get 31 if you play like few hours a day.Heirloom weapon is a big advantage and you should earn it.
4.Will be fixed.
5.Throwing should have high damage,cut damage will make them useles,if they need fix,fix something else but not damage.
6.Simply no.Pure class is boring,classes are boring.Would be much more interesting if people will choose 1-3 weapons type instead of 1.There is no such RPG PvP system that will allow to choose between hybrid or pure class and at the same time be effective.So you need to choose,I choose hybrid system,because its fun and makes game deeper.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Kafein on February 17, 2011, 02:54:43 pm
1. No. Simply because polearm reaches are fucked up, they are slower than two handers and do less damage.
2. I support more diversity for bows, but I think it would be better to balance them in sync with xbows in a more realistic manner. Xbows should be the long range weapons (and not bows), not because of accuracy, but because of shot speed (thus range). But first xbow effectiveness should be more linked to wpf. However, I don't think it's a good idea to do a general buff to bows even more.
3. I posted some ideas over xp and retirement in another thread
4. Well readjusting is not enough, as someone else said, just remove the crushthrough flag for barmaces and long iron maces. For knockdown, my personal opinion is to remove it completly from the game.
5. Slowing down the reload speed, reducing shot speed A LOT (pro javelin throwers using competition gear can't throw like that, and here we have not so trained soldiers throwing mid quality steel and wood weapons with machine gun speed without moving that do better), increasing accuracy a tad for heavy throwing gear, and decreasing it for light (under franciscas).
6. Pure classes are actually dominating... Very few thrower hybrids have any point in throwing, very few melee using xbow have any points in xbow. Just look at scoreboards and ask people around...

Add to this the over-advantage being faster will grant you (either for spam, feints or blocks), since armors are 1/2 of what they were pre patch. The goal of the game is now hitting first.

Even "marginal" wpf differences will determine who dies and who survives.

For me the real problem isn't the current wpf system, it's the skill requirement progression. Each skill level requires the same 3 points of attribute. For me, low skill levels should require less additionnal attribute points than high skill levels. This would allow REAL hybridation.
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Boss_Awesome on February 17, 2011, 09:37:44 pm
With throwers they should just slow them down to slightly faster than archers.  As is, throwers throw 3x faster than archers shoot, which makes no sense at all.  Leave damage the same to make up for throwers low amount of ammo.  The arrow projectile (shoot speed) needs to be increased, and possibly a damage boost.  People keep saying archers need to get more skill, but why should archery be the only class for experts?  Why shouldn't throwers have to get more skill?  Or melee? 
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Sharky on February 17, 2011, 10:00:07 pm
I'll tell what is absolutely not needed: forbid alt char in strategus battles.
I, as many, enjoy playing with different chars the battles, playing only with the main char is just boring and it will not help the balance at all.
If someone fields an all trower army or an all bow alt char army, just balance the trowing or the bows , don't forbid alternate chars please  :cry:
Title: Re: Essential Changes/Tweaks Needed in Next Patch/Update
Post by: Spawny on February 18, 2011, 01:14:27 pm
With throwers they should just slow them down to slightly faster than archers.  As is, throwers throw 3x faster than archers shoot, which makes no sense at all.  Leave damage the same to make up for throwers low amount of ammo.  The arrow projectile (shoot speed) needs to be increased, and possibly a damage boost.  People keep saying archers need to get more skill, but why should archery be the only class for experts?  Why shouldn't throwers have to get more skill?  Or melee?

The low projectile speed for throwing was an attempt from the devs to make it more skillbased instead of luckbased. You need to lead your targets more.
The only thing it really accomplished is that it made throwing even more of a short range utility than it was.
The only things you can use to hit (the guy you aimed for) longer range targets are the wardarts and lower tier weapons.